Why not just add a store system?

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

20 minutes ago, JuicyPop said:

Except in this case the people that actively benefit from the current system are rightly opposing changes to it. There is no situation with an AH wherein I would make more /hr outside of playing the market full-time. 

I don't think an economy should be set up to help people "make more money"... it should be to facilitate the transactions within the game so more people can buy/sell more things, rather than just the few that will put up with either trade chat or making use of a 3rd party website. This creates "false scarcity" which artificially inflates the prices of things.

I don't think it would be a bad thing for certain things to cost less plat between players. Sure, it would initially hurt those who have been playing the market to store up high value items, but in the end, more players would have more of the things that let them have fun in the game (Prime frames, mods, whathaveyou). Even the lowest newbie trader could at least interact within the game and make a little plat off their lowly Lith relic prime parts... long before they start reading message boards and learning about all the resources like the 3rd party website (which is essentially an Auction House - whatever name you like to give such a system - not necessarily a place to conduct bidding wars, which I wouldn't touch with a Primed Reach polearm.)

The introduction of an in-game auction house wouldn't just bring an influx of sellers, but an influx of buyers as well. There will be changes to the market, but the whole disaster people talk about is doomsaying without logical backing, from my point of view and experience in mutliple games with AH's in various forms.

 

[Chappie]

1 minute ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

I don't think an economy should be set up to help people "make more money"... it should be to facilitate the transactions within the game so more people can buy/sell more things, rather than just the few that will put up with either trade chat or making use of a 3rd party website. This creates "false scarcity" which artificially inflates the prices of things.

I don't think it would be a bad thing for certain things to cost less plat between players. Sure, it would initially hurt those who have been playing the market to store up high value items, but in the end, more players would have more of the things that let them have fun in the game (Prime frames, mods, whathaveyou). Even the lowest newbie trader could at least interact within the game and make a little plat off their lowly Lith relic prime parts... long before they start reading message boards and learning about all the resources like the 3rd party website (which is essentially an Auction House - whatever name you like to give such a system - not necessarily a place to conduct bidding wars, which I wouldn't touch with a Primed Reach polearm.)

The introduction of an in-game auction house wouldn't just bring an influx of sellers, but an influx of buyers as well. There will be changes to the market, but the whole disaster people talk about is doomsaying without logical backing, from my point of view and experience in mutliple games with AH's in various forms.

 

Warframe doesn't have a continuous resource consumption though...that is just one of issue with an AH in this game.   Couple that with most things can be farmed pretty much while watching YT.   Then throw on top of it that people will band together to manipulate markets on this that are rare and or consumable....eesh.     Furthermore, couple that currency in warframe actually has $ value and it is a F2P game and can be traded it will be quickly flooded by low wage labor/workers who will then in turn sell that plat on the black market.   

Do you see anything in this scenario which benefits DE in any way shape or form?   Umm....nope.

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

The people who are alienated from trade currently, due to it being through a 3rd party website or horrendous trade chat (a feature that died out on most games long long ago, for good reason), would likely use what plat they get on the game's built-in plat sinks, thus, removing that plat from circulation - notably, slots.

The in-game market is beneficial to DE to promote the fact that their game is entirely free to play, and that people can obtain plat by trading with people who have it, never needing to spend a dime of their own money if they are so motivated.

The people who currently "play the market" and are swimming in plat are the least of DE's concern, since they're not buying new plat from them anymore... they're freely earning and hording it. (which may have a temporary effect of being a pseuodo-plat sink until they spend it in the market again)

I have no sympathy for people who are plat-rich from playing a false market.

[Steel_Rook]

3 hours ago, Iamabearlulz said:

You are wrong. If you actually bothered to interact with the trade system and the people you traded with, you might actually see some interaction in return. As with any interactions, you can only get out as much as you put in. Try actually talking to people rather than AFKing on Warframe.market and you might see some of the community you claim doesn't exist.

If I cared to interact with people, then I wouldn't need to be coddled now would I? If the system is supposed to force me to make friends against my will, it isn't working. If the system expects me to make friends on my own, then I don't need it for that. I've never understood this argument. If a system is intended to encourage social interaction, but only does so if the people using it wanted social interaction in the first place, then what is the system even contributing? Beyond inconvenience, I mean.

 

1 hour ago, JuicyPop said:

Except in this case the people that actively benefit from the current system are rightly opposing changes to it. There is no situation with an AH wherein I would make more /hr outside of playing the market full-time. If you remove the barriers to entry into a market, you necessarily increase competition/volume. Volume exceeding demand necessarily places a negative pressure on prices. 

Yeah, that's part of the point. I get that more competition is inconvenient from the perspective of sellers, but it means lower prices for buyers. As a buyer, I'm OK with this. And as a general rule of thumb, I'd always rather err on the side of lower prices and higher supply, rather than artificially inflating value so that people can make more money. I don't see a version of this suggestion where supply entirely dries out, and I'd rather prices were set by demand, rather than by lack of supply.

Edited September 13, 2019 by Steel_Rook

[youngjdef]

On 2019-09-09 at 1:40 AM, Tangent-Valley said:

Side Note: If you've EVER put anything into Warframe.Market, then you know it's not as simple as "you just put the items there with the price you want and forget about their existence". You need to always keep an eye out on the Market and the Patchnotes. What's not Meta today could suddenly become insanely valuable tomorrow as Demand for it sykrockets, or what was an easy 120p sale (Looking at you, Eidolon Lens) becomes a "Must be at or lower to 80p" sale as DE updates the Lens's into the in-game Market for 80p.

Setting and Forgetting it a failing strategy as a Sales Person in this game. Just saying.


(Also, imagine the people complaining "WHAT?! X-Mod is super valuable now?! The Store System sold it to someone from my Inventory for only 5p before I had a chance to come home and alter the price!!! REEEEEEEEE!!!!" if your system did exist. Heh.)

this is true but its not very common IMO. WF Market makes selling realllyyy easy and is practically an in-game store for me, anyway.

i would really recommend anyone who hasn't, take a look at it

[FrostDragoon]

4 hours ago, Chappie1975 said:

Warframe doesn't have a continuous resource consumption though...

*Potatoes

*Equipment slots

*Exilus slots

*Forma bundles

*Boosters

*The occasion where a new item is more trouble to farm than it's worth so people just buy it out instead (Hema and Harrow come to mind)

*And of course... COSMETICS!

 

The fact that you would say something so blatantly false/ignorant simply removes all credibility anyone might justifiably assume for you in place of actually knowing you personally. I honestly don't know how to take you seriously at this point. What argument can you make when that is your baseline presupposition?

[FrostDragoon]

1 hour ago, youngjdef said:

this is true but its not very common IMO. WF Market makes selling realllyyy easy and is practically an in-game store for me, anyway.

i would really recommend anyone who hasn't, take a look at it

Yeah, this is the same problem Path of Exile has. The devs are too blind/ignorant to realize how utterly $#!% their system is, intentionally make it that way for bad reasons, and players just circumvent it with a pseudo AH a la 3rd party sites. Why not just cut out the middle man and do it right to begin with? Can't speak for DE, but when it comes to GGG I attribute it to stupidity rather than malice. I don't think they intend to punish their players. They simply bought into the fallacies created by Diablo 3's EA style MTX AH, so they are really gun-shy about it. What people don't realize is that D3's model was vastly inferior to basically any other game in existence, lacks the built-in protections those other games have, and is much more the exception than the rule--but people always point to exceptions instead of understanding the rules. Stupid.

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

11 hours ago, BL4CKN0ISE said:

When you actually work, you think about how precious your time is. You're much more concerned with how much you make for that time. When you don't work, you're happy to get a few dollars. 

I get annoyed selling stuff too. That's why I don't waste my time selling stuff too cheap. I'm not leaving my orbiter to sell an item lower than what I think my time is worth. I definitely don't want DE to take that aspect away. 

Your work is not a product. 

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

7 hours ago, JuicyPop said:

Except in this case the people that actively benefit from the current system are rightly opposing changes to it. There is no situation with an AH wherein I would make more /hr outside of playing the market full-time. 

edit: If you remove the barriers to entry into a market, you necessarily increase competition/volume. Volume exceeding demand necessarily places a negative pressure on prices. 

The problem with your logic is a philosophical one:

-> Everyone is a consumer, that's how the game works. You're forced to consume, or else you'll get stuck trying to brute-force your way through low drop rates and lots of RNG, etc. 

-> Not everyone is a seller. You don't need to sell things (you can just buy platinum, what endorses even more what I said before). 

So in the end, the majority (who will be benefited) is not you as a seller, is you as a consumer. Your logic is also stupid in the sense that, if prices go down...why would you be harmed by it?  

-> Prices go down 

-> You can buy more with the plat you have. 

-> ????? 

-> absolute win

[FrostDragoon]

13 minutes ago, (XB1)XG1anBl4derX said:

Your work is not a product. 

It's a service. Both have value. Unlike your comment.

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

4 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

It's a service. Both have value. Unlike your comment.

No, what you produce determines what you get. It doesn't matter if you've spent 100h to get something in the game, the value of the product is what it's in check. 

That's the same reason why a famous soccer player gets paid better than another soccer player. Both can arguably train as much as each other, they can put the same ammount of effort as each other, but that doesn't play a role in the end.

[George_PPS]

Trading itself is actually a popular end game activity for many players, including myself. Not only you can earn plat in game, you can also serve others this way since not all players have the time to farm everything. Many players just buy plat to buy stuff in game. But you have to put your time and efforts into it. 

[0_The_F00l]

Most arguments against AH systems usually is limited to :

1) I make a lot of plat cause there is lesser competition, you will add competition, forcing me to lower my prices, I don't like you. 

Those with this argument need to realise the system isn't for you selling stuff at high profit, it's for giving players a reason to "buy plat" from DE and get stuff they don't want to grind, 

2) DE has said they won't do it. 

DE changes their stance frequently. 

3) it will crash the economy. 

See point 1.

4) there is less reason to buy plat for players if it's become cheap, so it will hurt DE. 

I don't see the prices for rivens, super rare items and arcanes dropping significantly, and there may be trades of lesser value but there will be a lot more of them,

a % of the cut going back to DE and

there being a minimum value on items put in and

maximum number of items that can be put up per day will alleviate most of these issues. 

[FrostDragoon]

51 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

4) there is less reason to buy plat for players if it's become cheap, so it will hurt DE.

This is actually a backward argument they put forth while trying to have it both ways.

If you believe it will lower the prices of goods, then more players would be willing to drop some money to buy those goods which are more reasonably priced whereas those may be too expensive for them now.

If you don't believe it will significantly lower prices, then your real argument is that you dislike the extra competition because the hassle of the current trade system as a "barrier to entry" is something you perceive as an advantage to you. What you're missing here is that this works for both buyers and sellers. Lots of people won't bother to trade at all because it's such a PITA to do so. You are missing out on customers by holding this view.

As for all this "player interaction" nonsense, it's just a red herring to detract from how awful this trade system actually is. Ignore these arguments. They don't deserve your attention or time.

[0_The_F00l]

1 hour ago, FrostDragoon said:

As for all this "player interaction" nonsense, it's just a red herring to detract from how awful this trade system actually is. Ignore these arguments. They don't deserve your attention or time.

Yeah , that's why i don't even consider them.

[Spectre-8]

Oh yeah good luck with that 😄

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

On 2019-09-09 at 1:35 AM, Jiminez_Burial said:

for people to converse with people and negotiate prices.

I literally cannot think of any positive results of this. Trade Chat is a vicious feeding frenzy of plat sharks. If you're not ripping someone off, there's a 90% chance that you're getting ripped off. That's why there's so many third party sites like warframe.market which emulate an auction house in an attempt to stabilize prices.

[FrostDragoon]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Erudite Prime said:

I literally cannot think of any positive results of this. Trade Chat is a vicious feeding frenzy of plat sharks. If you're not ripping someone off, there's a 90% chance that you're getting ripped off. That's why there's so many third party sites like warframe.market which emulate an auction house in an attempt to stabilize prices.

It's also the most evidence anyone should ever need about which trade system is vastly superior.

[JuicyPop]

On 2019-09-13 at 9:38 PM, (XB1)XG1anBl4derX said:

The problem with your logic is a philosophical one:

-> Everyone is a consumer, that's how the game works. You're forced to consume, or else you'll get stuck trying to brute-force your way through low drop rates and lots of RNG, etc. 

-> Not everyone is a seller. You don't need to sell things (you can just buy platinum, what endorses even more what I said before). 

So in the end, the majority (who will be benefited) is not you as a seller, is you as a consumer. Your logic is also stupid in the sense that, if prices go down...why would you be harmed by it?  

-> Prices go down 

-> You can buy more with the plat you have. 

-> ????? 

-> absolute win

Plat prices may go down, but plat acquisition mechanisms would be affected in a non-linear fashion. Any individual in my position would see a significant loss in market/buying power. 

Edited September 15, 2019 by JuicyPop

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

15 minutes ago, JuicyPop said:

Any individual in my position would see a significant loss in market/buying power. 

No you wouldn't. I already explained why, quit defending that failed system, you are already out of arguments.

[JuicyPop]

4 minutes ago, (XB1)XG1anBl4derX said:

No you wouldn't. I already explained why, quit defending that failed system, you are already out of arguments.

Address the first part of my post then. If you believe that both would see an equivalent decline, then show me up with the breadth of your knowledge. I mean, if you have an econ degree and have this particular shift modeled out, I'm more than willing to change my view. 

Edited September 15, 2019 by JuicyPop

[FrostDragoon]

You don't need a degree to understand that if the market prices dropped overall that you could buy more with the plat you have earned so far or choose to buy from DE directly. It's really straight-forward. It would also mean it's easier to sell things, so you would probably gain more plat overall through a higher volume of smaller transactions.

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

45 minutes ago, JuicyPop said:

plat acquisition mechanisms would be affected in a non-linear fashion

There's nothing to debate here. Your claim is generic, "it will be affected". lol congratulations, you brought nothing to the table. 

 

[JuicyPop]

1 hour ago, (XB1)XG1anBl4derX said:

There's nothing to debate here. Your claim is generic, "it will be affected". lol congratulations, you brought nothing to the table. 

 

 

1 hour ago, FrostDragoon said:

You don't need a degree to understand that if the market prices dropped overall that you could buy more with the plat you have earned so far or choose to buy from DE directly. It's really straight-forward. It would also mean it's easier to sell things, so you would probably gain more plat overall through a higher volume of smaller transactions.

Let's say that I can make 300 plat/hr through a composition of mechanisms and that on average I spend about 1000 plat per day in acquiring items to trade at a later date. Let's say that the introduction of an AH depresses the market to the point where I can only make about 100 plat/hr despite an equivalent daily set of acquisitions costing around 500 plat. 

Am I doing better than I was before? 

Brush up on your critical reading skills a bit before countering with nothing at all. 

[FrostDragoon]

Going to make up hypotheticals that are unrealistic for the vast majority of players and use that as an argument?

Brush up on your critical reading skills a bit before countering with nothing at all.