Why not just add a store system?

[FrostDragoon]

36 minutes ago, JuicyPop said:

You're missing the point. It doesn't matter if it's 1, 4, 8 or 100; if there is a fixed number that you can conceivably use then there is an inherent point of exhaustion in the market. Your premise only really follows if we're talking about one-time use consumables. 

This shows a very shallow understanding of both the game and economics, so I'll make one point you probably haven't thought through very well.

When it comes to rare prime parts--especially those from Axi relics, and doubly for those which have been vaulted--it isn't as if every player is providing their own supply. A tiny fraction of players bothers to farm more than they really need and sell it. A significant number of people don't farm such things themselves (otherwise they wouldn't sell, lol), so what actually happens with an AH system, and what we saw with Warframe market, is that common items devalue somewhat, rare items increase, and everything in between fluctuates mildly. The idea that the market would "crash" is just a false scare tactic by those who are ignorant and those who seek to abuse the current system to take advantage of people who don't know better.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

3 hours ago, FrostDragoon said:

This shows a very shallow understanding of both the game and economics, so I'll make one point you probably haven't thought through very well.

When it comes to rare prime parts--especially those from Axi relics, and doubly for those which have been vaulted--it isn't as if every player is providing their own supply. A tiny fraction of players bothers to farm more than they really need and sell it. A significant number of people don't farm such things themselves (otherwise they wouldn't sell, lol), so what actually happens with an AH system, and what we saw with Warframe market, is that common items devalue somewhat, rare items increase, and everything in between fluctuates mildly. The idea that the market would "crash" is just a false scare tactic by those who are ignorant and those who seek to abuse the current system to take advantage of people who don't know better.

Dude, seriously there's got to be a bridge you can go inhabit. 

What you think is a grand revelation is just proof that you're so far behind the curve that it's not even funny. Look at the forums, people are constantly complaining about how little they get for their items which used to be worth so much more "back in the day". 

That's an obvious indication that supply is growing in relation to demand. And for every single piece sold, you can shift the player to the "potential supplier" side of the equation. 

Regarding that nonsense you tried to pull saying that people saying that there will be a crash do so only because they benefit, I seldom sell stuff in warframe. My plat primarily comes from supporting the game. I am far more likely to give away a set to a newb than sell anything. But I can see how the proposed system will crash the market. 

Even people who support the auction house can see how the change would affect pricing if they have a functional brain. And that's the difference between someone like @(PS4)AyinDygraand yourself. They can think through the implications of the change, so we can have a discussion about what level of impact it will be likely to have. All you've managed to do is try to hurl insults and offer what you believe is a special insight that has already been dealt with. I mean we get that you are trying to save some face but it really isn't working for you. 

[FrostDragoon]

Well, I'm convinced you're not just a bad troll, so that kind of narrows it down...

[DeMonkey]

19 hours ago, FrostDragoon said:

"Welcome to Warframe" from a console peasant when I've been playing this game for 6 1/2 years

Your PC account has not been "played" for 6 1/2 years, we are capable of checking.

Ironically it looks like your PC account has hardly been "played" at all given the only event that you have showing activity is "Eyes of Blight" (which iirc counts any instance of Fomorian event as an event score for Eyes of Blight) and a mere 748 hours over the course of this supposed 6 1/2 years, your forum account creation date (whilst always different to when you started playing the game isn't too far off) also shows late 2015 as your join date. If you're referring to your console account as the one you've actually been playing for 6 1/2 years, then not only does that make you just as much of a "console peasant" as they are, but you're also a time traveller since the current generation of console haven't been out for 6 years yet. 

If you're wanting to argue on the internet, please make sure that what you're saying is... well, credible. Just found this rather amusing.

Edited September 19, 2019 by DeMonkey

[FrostDragoon]

Oh, congrats. You checked one of my accounts. You're so clever!

Except not really.

[DeMonkey]

6 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

Oh, congrats. You checked one of my accounts. You're so clever!

Except not really.

You specified,

19 hours ago, FrostDragoon said:

Truth is, I have PC and PS4 accounts, both in the mid 20's

Your usage of "both" means that there are two. I checked the only one of the specified two that you own that could actually be 6 1/2 years old. If you have additional accounts then you need to word things better.

Again, credibility. Insulting people really doesn't help your case btw, although that appears to be a current theme. All that can be seen from you at a cursory glance are attacks and lies.

Shrug

Edited September 19, 2019 by DeMonkey

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

18 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

In your myopic greed, you think that the auction house will make selling easier, it won't. It will however drive prices of most items down, which would make purchasing easier, except for the simple fact that most people first need to earn enough plat to buy the things they want. And when everything they're able to sell is going for a tiny fraction of the current price, because some fools insisted that they wanted an easy way to flood the market, earning that plat will be so much harder. 

Let's suppose all prices of general mods go to at least 3-5 plat. How the hell is that harder to earn plat if you're selling most items for 3-5 plat...? 

Edited September 20, 2019 by (XB1)XG1anBl4derX

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

47 minutes ago, (XB1)XG1anBl4derX said:

Let's suppose all prices of general mods go to at least 3-5 plat. How the hell is that harder to earn plat if you're selling most items for 3-5 plat...? 

I wouldn't wager much that you will be able to sell "common mods" for 3-5 plat. Because there are a lot of people with those same common mods and many would probably be more than happy to to take even a single plat because they're just piled up there. And you are forgetting that we also need plat to buy things that won't reduce in prices, slots. 

 

Figure out how much plat a collector needs in this game, then redo your math. 

[CarrotSalad]

If they add a store/auction hall/automatic trading system then Theres absolutely no way its goinng be using platinum as a currency.

They'll use credits for the transactions.The platinum to person to person trades. I dont know of any MMO that actually allows the equivalent of platinum to be used as a trading currency. For good reason.

People are deluded if they think DE are going to allow platinum into automated trades.

[Snarlax]

On 2019-09-09 at 5:26 AM, GinKenshin said:

Faster is easier. If yo don't need to waste hours looking at chat, but just write some stuff on a store and wait for plat to come in, it's still easier.  

And if you can earn platinum faster through sales, then people will spend it faster on DE sold things, thus taking more platinum out of the market, resulting in more platinum sales.

Furthermore, DE should be taking a 10% cut of all plat in trades anyway, to have a nice slow steady drain on it so they sell more plat.

But on the topic of this thread:

They need a friggin market/AH. This system sucks. Trade chat is a brutal spam joke. Having to use a third party website is an embarrassment.

[(XBOX)Phantom Clip]

On 2019-09-09 at 1:26 AM, (XB1)XG1anBl4derX said:

I have heard a lot of complaints about a lot of things in this game, but the most irritating thing for me, to be honest...is the fact I have to stop playing to sell things. 

Warframe literally wants you to stop playing sometimes (like the items that take 12-72h to be created, or the 1,5h gap between eidolon hunts), it's no big deal at this moment because players don't really bother at all for some reason. 

But what annoys me the most is having to spend maybe hours of my day trying to sell items. I don't see any harm on a store system, you just put the items there with the price you want and forget about their existence. 

People buy it, you receive the platinum on the inbox, perfect.

Each person is different.  If I really want plat,  I'll just lower the price until it sales. Never had a problem. Takes 10 min to make 60-100 plats in 3 trades.

It takes hours/days/weeks/months when you want triple the cost anyone wants to pay. You have to wait on rookie/novice who uses money to get plat from markrt to buy a riven at 2k plat or arbitration mod at 60p. I'll sell arb mods 20-30p. Gone before the post timer is done.

If I want a build item immediately,  I'll rush the build or buy it from market. 

Trading for plat is in no way hard or lengthy. Just adjust your prices. Sorry you can't get rich off 1 item all the time.

How would a store even look? Sorting through thousands of players selling same 1 item? Obviously the cheapest price of that item will be the first to sell. This will set the price for said item. Likely to be 5-10p for 90% of mission drop items or void relic items.

How/why? Because low level, new, and leech players would have high end items, mission drop items, void relic items just from being carried and sell for crazy cheap just to get plat. Look at Nightwave giving arcane grace. Before it was 190-220p for r0. But because more could be seen on the market at the same time, prices plummeted. I bought 30 all at or under 70p each. I bet some people paid 50p or lower. Even now, people on forum say 200p for set is cheap but you can buy Wukong, Rhino, Ash, Vauban set 50-70p if you wait or buy pieces. You can get ANY frame cheap. 

Large Clans would form just to horde rare, event, non dropped items day and night and resell at crazy prices. Clans already have members than join together to buy rivens for new and popular weapons from rookies for cheap and resell at crazy high prices. 

You might want a store or board to trade your items until you get it. 

There are boards that exist already. Look at warframe market. Then look at nexus market. Many items are priced way under their in-game value and others are wayy overpriced. If these existed in-game, adding tens of thousands of traders to the boards the low prices would get lower. The high prices would get higher. 

Still fine for me tho. I mean the game is free, items are free. If get less plat per trade oh well. I will still sell cheaper than others. Get my plat, buy my fashion skins and let others compain that my sole, low prices are killing the whole trading market and the reason they can't sell anything after hours - months of trying.. 

[(XBOX)Phantom Clip]

On 2019-09-19 at 5:48 PM, (XB1)XG1anBl4derX said:

Let's suppose all prices of general mods go to at least 3-5 plat. How the hell is that harder to earn plat if you're selling most items for 3-5 plat...? 

Because only 3plat mods would sell. 5p traders will be called fools. New players will sell at 1- 2p and under cut everyone.

Then comes along me. I'll sell 3 mod for 2p while others still waiting hours to sell.

[Avienas]

2 hours ago, Snarlax said:

And if you can earn platinum faster through sales, then people will spend it faster on DE sold things, thus taking more platinum out of the market, resulting in more platinum sales.

Furthermore, DE should be taking a 10% cut of all plat in trades anyway, to have a nice slow steady drain on it so they sell more plat.

But on the topic of this thread:

They need a friggin market/AH. This system sucks. Trade chat is a brutal spam joke. Having to use a third party website is an embarrassment.

I swear i come back to these threads outta pure boredom as i drop out of other frustrations and join on stuff that actually has fun, but enough talking about a mobile game which has reached the point of being a stall fest thing. A change to how marketing is handled is all i wish for at this point.

Because even if the argument is whether to remove the capability of your pet companion literally dropping a giant turd on your navigator stand and you can somehow smell it thru your monitor, you will STILL get some white knight likely creating the idea a bunch of people are against the idea of removing said thing, because it somehow is some lucky charm to boost drop rates of goods, likely using `Data` to back it, with likely no accurate data points or full on detailed reasoning or a actual survey signed by numerous long-time players to help vouch that the pet pooping on your navigator bench, should not lose the ability to defecate inside the orbiter. 

Anyway, i still like to follow the belief that if riven mods never came into existence, despite them being one of the key sources of scaling more into absurd shenigans, despite it was suppose to be a `system` to boost weaker weapons...Well i would think the current marketing system would be a heck of alot bearable since it would mean one of the major sources of trash spam would of never came into existence for the game. Sure we might still of got it with prime parts and relics, but least i would think people would be more desperate to shell an extra few coins of plat to get what they want, then likely sinking it into riven mod collectors pockets.

 

A lil` P.S. list:

• Because how fast a sale for a WTB/WTS, PMO can go, you can`t really pull the logic of selling it uber low since if you put no flooring present, you might as well just sell said item for 1 platinum if you give ZERO care on making a decent amount and would rather just instant spam sell 20 items, that could all be worth 30~120 plat easy by themselves. It basically turns into the same B.S. as the lootbox shenigan where companies who capitalize on the crap want people NOT thinking about the value, they gotta do it fast and ASAP to get what they want before someone else snatches it up. Basically unhealthy marketing scheme, market chat is.

 

• With no Marketing Average to follow within reasonable time (nor others in console chat seem to care about and rather demand a item at 5~10% what the average is at), No way to clean up nasty text slogs(seriously /CLEAR command aint that hard to put in D.E.! Would certainly be useful to clean the chat log to keep trace of posting frequency combined with time stamps and to get those 3-5 wall text lines outta my market chat window!) and we have to stay off the island of actual gaming to make our market sales, its kind of something that makes me wish warframe had a app for browsing chat channels so i can be farming in-game and can just side glance my phone for any market pop ups, Oh wait...MARKET CHAT GOES ABSURDLY FAST SO THAT MAKES TYPING ON A PHONE QUITE A PAIN TO CATCH QUICK PMOs.

 

• If the White Knights are going to keep up with the charade of market chat should not be changed at all, why do you folks not try suggesting ALTERNATIVES instead of being constant denial walls, very sure i heard Sub-chat channels as one suggestion which allows retaining the same system but splits up market chat enough to where one does not need a bunch of filters just to view things at a decent end and do not give me that butt-poop of positive filters resolve it all, if you do not put any negative filters on then you cannot remove most of the riven/arcane/pet/coupon scam/troll messages to be able to have market chat flow slow enough for you to actually able to read stuff and let the process for your eyeballs to to send the information to your brain and then your brain processes on what action to take and then commands your body to take the appropriate action, but your likely needing to speed type as fast as i can do in-game just to get a sliver of a chance to be first PM to hopefully get your offer accepted first, less a bunch of people PM then its just whoever offered the lowest blindly, without knowing if anyone else was offering too.

Edited September 24, 2019 by Avienas

[(XBOX)Phantom Clip]

On 2019-09-13 at 4:47 PM, FrostDragoon said:

*Potatoes

*Equipment slots

*Exilus slots

*Forma bundles

*Boosters

*The occasion where a new item is more trouble to farm than it's worth so people just buy it out instead (Hema and Harrow come to mind)

*And of course... COSMETICS!

 

The fact that you would say something so blatantly false/ignorant simply removes all credibility anyone might justifiably assume for you in place of actually knowing you personally. I honestly don't know how to take you seriously at this point. What argument can you make when that is your baseline presupposition?

But those items are not resources.

They are upgrades and extras. 

You actively chose to buy excesses of those items. 

You can get those items for free. You don't need to spend plat. 

AH would fit great for traders who buy plat from markrt. Cheap items everywhere, no need to play the game. It would suck for f2p traders who only repeat content to get items to sell. 

[FrostDragoon]

On 2019-09-19 at 7:06 PM, CarrotSalad said:

If they add a store/auction hall/automatic trading system then Theres absolutely no way its goinng be using platinum as a currency.

They'll use credits for the transactions.The platinum to person to person trades. I dont know of any MMO that actually allows the equivalent of platinum to be used as a trading currency. For good reason.

People are deluded if they think DE are going to allow platinum into automated trades.

You don't know many games then. It's also a weird assumption on your part.

Edit:

Just to be very clear, you have it precisely backward. They will never do trading with just credits, because this would undercut their plat sales--let alone do it the way you suggested which would all but destroy plat trading entirely.

Edited September 24, 2019 by FrostDragoon

[FrostDragoon]

8 hours ago, (XB1)Phantom Clip said:

But those items are not resources.

They are upgrades and extras. 

You actively chose to buy excesses of those items. 

You can get those items for free. You don't need to spend plat. 

AH would fit great for traders who buy plat from markrt. Cheap items everywhere, no need to play the game. It would suck for f2p traders who only repeat content to get items to sell. 

Those upgrades are largely necessary if you want to experience most of the game past Neptune or so. Cosmetics are extras, but haven't you heard? FashionFrame is endgame anyway. The point you're missing is that there is a ton of stuff to spend plat on in the game that takes the plat out of the market, which means people need to buy more of it. "You don't need to" isn't really an argument either, because there's so much stuff in game that people want. Economies are never based solely on need. In either case, the AH benefits both types of players. The people who buy plat directly benefit because there's more sellers for the stuff they want (doubly if you believe these "market crash" shenanigans), and f2p traders have an easier way to access buyers, so they have more plat to spend on those upgrades and vaulted sets, for example.

[(XBOX)Phantom Clip]

2 hours ago, FrostDragoon said:

Those upgrades are largely necessary if you want to experience most of the game past Neptune or so. Cosmetics are extras, but haven't you heard? FashionFrame is endgame anyway. The point you're missing is that there is a ton of stuff to spend plat on in the game that takes the plat out of the market, which means people need to buy more of it. "You don't need to" isn't really an argument either, because there's so much stuff in game that people want. Economies are never based solely on need. In either case, the AH benefits both types of players. The people who buy plat directly benefit because there's more sellers for the stuff they want (doubly if you believe these "market crash" shenanigans), and f2p traders have an easier way to access buyers, so they have more plat to spend on those upgrades and vaulted sets, for example.

Not largely necessary. You can do just fine with the free upgrades they give you.  Forma is the easiest to get and the most useful. 

If they removed trading, you would have to buy it. All those who "want" stuff would have to use money or keep wanting. Just like most games.

AH would only benefit buyers. At this point the flood of surplus items would only lower sell prices. So yea, people who buy plat would benefit greatly.  More sellers is not a good thing for f2p when all items are gotten for free, by everyone.    Vaulted sets won't increase in price unless they remove relics from your inventory when items get vaulted. If anything, less players would play public void missions. They would join clans just to horde parts. Same way the average Eidolon tricap hunt is done by clans and recruiting. Not public matches.

Even further, there are more sellers online already. New players already introduce items at much lower prices. Cost of many of items have already dropped by over half of where they started.

There are no false rarities. It's rare because not everyone who has item or want item will be online AND posting WITH the price desired. It's a chance for others to compete  The system is very fair. If you are online, post what you have to trade or want to receive.  If someone else who is online matches your request,  you two have a small window of time to exchange. If you "want" that item , you're likely to pay the price. Sometimes you get beat out by another trader. Just like average real life public actions. 

Never in the history of anything has having a variety of sellers been equal to more profit. That's why mergers happen. Stores go bankrupt because they can't compete with low prices of big business. This is the biggest reason players can not sell items. Not because no one wants the item, but because someone else sells much cheaper. 

ANYONE who actively trade items will see some players wanting triple the price of 3-4 other players. Those who want crazy high amouts of plat are the ones that have issue selling.

Again, any one can go see what a very FEW players want by looking on warframe market or nexushub. The first are cheap but scroll down and see the ridiculousness. Those high prices are artificial. 

 

Edited September 24, 2019 by (XB1)Phantom Clip

[FrostDragoon]

That post is wrong on so many levels... where to begin?

Have you ever played a game with an AH? Have you played one that allows trading with the premium currency of that game?  Have you ever actually studied economics (I have)? Worst of all is this, though:

9 minutes ago, (XB1)Phantom Clip said:

Never in the history of anything has having a variety of sellers been equal to more profit.

Capitalism in any healthy form is based on competition. Otherwise you see unhealthy capitalism--monopolies--and I don't think I have to explain why you don't want that. The reason competition makes it healthy is because you need prices of things to be low enough that more people have access to them. This means more money is trading hands more frequently among more people. That benefits everyone.

The rest about why various things close down is getting into things which have no in game equivalent and aren't an issue in game as a result, but ultimately it's not just low prices--which is only one side of the coin. You're sort of looking at a reflection in the pond and unable to see what's in the water as a result.

Besides that,

11 minutes ago, (XB1)Phantom Clip said:

AH would only benefit buyers. At this point the flood of surplus items would only lower sell prices. So yea, people who buy plat would benefit greatly.  More sellers is not a good thing for f2p when all items are gotten for free, by everyone.    Vaulted sets won't increase in price unless they remove relics from your inventory when items get vaulted. If anything, less players would play public void missions. They would join clans just to horde parts. Same way the average Eidolon tricap hunt is done by clans and recruiting. Not public matches.

Nearly every sentence in this is wrong. I've underlined the parts that are at least "mostly" true. I say mostly because they are incomplete truths. Common items decrease in value. Rarer items see minor change in either direction. Very rare items increase in value. As for the Eidolon hunting, that is because you can't reasonably organize or expect randos to coordinate well enough to accomplish it in an efficient manner. You have your causes and effects mixed up.

[Sumona]

Need Auction House please.. tired of going through countless PM's only to have disagreements with lowballers over my THIRTY Rivens I'm trying to sell every 120 disencouraging seconds in Trade Chat..

Make trading in AH cost 1 platinum fee. There's your sink. 

Edited September 24, 2019 by Sumona

[FrostDragoon]

9 minutes ago, Sumona said:

Need Auction House please.. tired of going through countless PM's only to have disagreements with lowballers over my THIRTY Rivens I'm trying to sell every 120 disencouraging seconds in Trade Chat..

Make trading in AH cost 1 platinum fee. There's your sink. 

Doesn't need a sink. That plat was purchased with real money.

[Sumona]

1 minute ago, FrostDragoon said:

Doesn't need a sink. That plat was purchased with real money.

Yes but, if players keep trading platinum and items, DE gets nothing. (Aside from the person who bought the platinum in the first place) 

Unless the Rush button in crafting is used more than I give it credit for (none) wouldn't it make sense to have a trading fee of 1 platinum, to slowly reduce the economy's circulating platinum, so people eventually would have to buy more? I mean, isn't that what they're afraid of? :f

[FrostDragoon]

Just now, Sumona said:

Yes but, if players keep trading platinum and items, DE gets nothing. (Aside from the person who bought the platinum in the first place) 

Unless the Rush button in crafting is used more than I give it credit for (none) wouldn't it make sense to have a trading fee of 1 platinum, to slowly reduce the economy's circulating platinum, so people eventually would have to buy more? I mean, isn't that what they're afraid of? :f

I think you should read back a page or two. There are plenty of other plat sinks in the game as it is.

[Sumona]

I did skip ahead and fart out my ideas. Care to summarise other than weapon and frame slots? :x

Edited September 24, 2019 by Sumona

[FrostDragoon]

On 2019-09-13 at 4:47 PM, FrostDragoon said:

*Potatoes

*Equipment slots

*Exilus slots

*Forma bundles

*Boosters

*The occasion where a new item is more trouble to farm than it's worth so people just buy it out instead (Hema and Harrow come to mind)

*And of course... COSMETICS!

Bear in mind this isn't even a comprehensive list. Just the most common stuff.

[Avienas]

15 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

Doesn't need a sink. That plat was purchased with real money.

Honestly if people want to really push the sink issue, they could just make platinum become untradable for X days after being traded to another player. and throw in actually spliting plat into 2 viewable currencies so we stop with this GAG of players in market chat not realizing they had 100 untradable platinum. Tree of Savior may of had a terrible marketing system but when done right, the concept of making prem currency have limited use under a temporary embargo like system, will force players to think a bit better with currencies.

The only ones who would suffer under such a restriction would be those who constantly shift platinum around the market like they have some platinum shuffling fetish or some sorts. Since very sure most people likely do sales for platinum to get their hands on fashion bits like the deluxe bundles and what not (or say...forma bundles or slots!?!?). Which having the plat restricted on being unable to trade it immediately after obtaining it, will likely do a mass tidy up of market chat since less people will be constant bouncing platinum about, though not sure how much it would reduce it by... 

But ATLEAST its a alternative suggestion then continuing this beat around the bush complaint fest on plz put in a AH on one side and the other being the white knights who continue to say such a system would ruin it, clearly ignoring the ideas on a: Good Competition with equal grounds for any system for all participants, will lead to a healthy pacing of players having those brain cells processing on what they want to pay and those that know how low they should go to not ruin themselves and let the others who bash themselves in the wall by making their offers dirt cheap are the ones who suffer because they likely got to sell 3 to 5 more copies of the same rare drop that took them 3 days to get, just to keep repeating the pattern.

Edited September 24, 2019 by Avienas