"If It Was Painful for Me, It Should be as Painful for Thee"

[el_chanis]

On 2019-09-18 at 7:43 AM, Birdframe_Prime said:

Actually, while I do agree with you, this particular one is because players are generically in favour of the path of least resistance. The easiest way to do that is free energy regen ^^

extremely high utility is a very strng reason to be meta. Just like Zenurik.

[Birdframe_Prime]

51 minutes ago, el_chanis said:

extremely high utility is a very strng reason to be meta. Just like Zenurik.

If it was utility they were after, then they'd pick something like Naramon, with Disarms and instant access to Finishers (which for some frames can scale to insanity).

Zenurik does have plenty of options, but one of those is simply just to be lazy.

4 hours ago, FrostDragoon said:

Just in case I'm not clear enough, my primary argument about Rivens is that there should be a sincere attempt at balancing them rather than this ever-shifting goal-post of "popularity" as any kind of meaningful basis for anything ever.

Oh, no, you were clear.

My argument is that you'll never get that, because DE never revert after the first month or two after an update. Unless it's caused a genuine bug to be introduced, they only ever iterate. That's proven over the years I've played, even with massive player outcry, once something is their established method, they never go back on it.

There is, however, a way to game the system.

Just organise a mass protest by getting entire Regions to only use a certain weapon in mission for a day, alternating for a week, to literally screw up their usage data.

[el_chanis]

3 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Zenurik does have plenty of options, but one of those is simply just to be lazy.

 

And you can kill enemies with Bows and Snipers, wich are some of the strongest weapons in the game, but players prefer far easier weapon to use, even if the dps is lower. "Lazy-mode on" is the ultimate definition of "UTILITY", specially in this kind of games. Remeber when vacuum was only on carrier and was the most used companion many times over the next one?. That was players being lazy (quite literally, we didn't want to walk a few steps to get that ferrite over there), and that was pure, unadultered, quintessencial UTILITY.

I don't know if you don't want to say Zenurik is OP, or you are simply confused, but Zenuik is meta because the utility it provides is beyond broken compared to all the other schools COMBINED (i made a survey on a facebook group of warframe about this, 3 - 1 in favor of zenurik alone vs all other schools combined).

[FrostDragoon]

20 minutes ago, el_chanis said:

That was players being lazy (quite literally, we didn't want to walk a few steps to get that ferrite over there), and that was pure, unadultered, quintessencial UTILITY.

I don't think this means what you think this means.

The reason such utility was so valuable wasn't just out of laziness (though that was part of it). It's because the cumulative time you would spend running around picking everything up yourself vs Vacuum was so night and day that you were actually foolish for not using it. When measured with opportunity costs for a player with 1,000 hours, how much progression difference do you think you would see between someone who always used it vs someone who never did? I don't think I have to spell that one out.

One could argue a similar point for Zenurik, and that's fine afaic, but it is still "off topic" in relation to the original suggestion.

[el_chanis]

2 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

One could argue a similar point for Zenurik, and that's fine afaic, but it is still "off topic" in relation to the original suggestion.

the problem is, the game is very unbalanced. To the point of being absurd. Hema is quite possibly the best example of a true clan-oriented activity, that makes sense in the context of things like Vacuum, Nekros/Hydroid... and Zenuik. AKA, makes sense in the meta. But makes zeo sense in the 99% of the game, wich is quite easy to achieve solo. The fact that the difference between meta and non-meta is so big, and that the meta itself is so prevalent, and that its taken into account when designing new content, means that that breach will get wider and wider, forcing more grind into people who certainly isn't up for the task, and gets zoned out of content arbitrarly simply because they liked a different playstyle.

This can be seen clearly when choosing a school, where, unless you start paying upfront, the chances of getting a new lens are quite low, and more importantly, farming affinity is not only slow, but gated by MR. Having such a strong utility is a single school effectively punish everyone who choose something different. And one can only hope new players realize about that sooner rather than later, otherwise the effort is doubled, just as disappoitment.

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

4 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

1. This game started life as a pure PvE shooter and remains that way.

2. Its whole appeal came from there, it's part of why I got stuck into it so much.

3. If this game were PvP from the very start, I wouldn't have even looked at it.

4. PvP does not need further integration.

5. It was added as an afterthought for some people to play with, never had that much popularity even at its peak (raids were more popular) and judging by this thread is a complete ghost town right now.

6. I'm fine with that. We've got enough broken systems in this game already, we do not need further attention diverted from them towards a wildly unpopular game mode.

7. With that in mind, I'm quite happy with universal medallions not working on PvP.

8. The Hema, on the other hand, was pure bullS#&$ right from the very beginning.

1. It started that way, yes. But things change over time. PvP has been in warframe for well over 5 years now. To continue saying that warframe is a 100% PvE game is asinine and an insult to your own intellectual fibers.

2.I'm happy you enjoy playing that part of warframe.

3. Weird, I started playing warframe BECAUSE it had PvP in it. The dark sector conflicts drew me in, and the conclave has kept me playing ever since.

4. What do you mean by integration?

5. It was not added as an afterthought. I would not call seventeen conclave maps and the allegedly unobtainable conclave cosmetics an afterthought.

6. Attention is not being diverted to conclave from anything else. There is a small team of people that work on conclave as a passion project. They are, more often than not, pulled away from working on conclave to work on other things.

7. I agree, but for different reasons.

8. My clan found the hema rather easy to get. We were a mountain clan and completed the resources for it in the same week that it was released. Perhaps this is because we spent our time grinding the mutagen samples in the game instead of complaining on the forums about it?

[FrostDragoon]

I get what you're saying, but (1) I still see it as "off topic," and (2) power creep is an inherent part of the game. There will always be a meta and people will always complain about it. None of that seems to be a good reason that we can't/shouldn't have more choice in how we configure our operators.

[Stormdragon]

7 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

This game started life as a pure PvE shooter and remains that way. Its whole appeal came from there.

Ye, still that hasn't prevented it from working a lot of features that weren't there back in 2013 such as PvP, pets, changing the parkour system, reworking the melee system, space combat, big open maps, going from PC only to consoles, etc. While we now wait for space exploration. I was there, i have seen the game grow too and i think that using the way it started to make a point doesn't make much sense when you look at how much has warframe changed since late 2012.

8 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

If this game were PvP from the very start, I wouldn't have even looked at it.

And nobody is asking DE to throw the PvE side of the game through a window in order to turn warframe into a pure PvP game, just for some needed fixes, some integration with the rest of the game and some changes to make it more accessible for casual players.

8 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

It was added as an afterthought for some people to play with

If you really want to be that strict about warframe, it's a game made by a lot of afterthoughts taped together that somehow manages to work. You know, some people wanted space combat and DE added Archwing; some people wanted a sport way to get pvp rewards and DE made Lunaro; people wanted dogs, DE added kubrows; people started asking for cats, DE added Kavats; people wanted open worlds, so the PoE and Fortuna updates were born; and i'm sure the list becomes far bigger when you compare 2013's warframe to the current build.

8 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

(raids were more popular)

Is that based on the same chart showing junctions being more popular than raids? 

8 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

We've got enough broken systems in this game already, we do not need further attention diverted from them towards a wildly unpopular game mode.

Or you know, they could improve it to give people something to do during the so called "content droughts" and make the audience target of warframe even wider than it already is.

8 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

With that in mind, I'm quite happy with universal medallions not working on PvP.

And i respect your opinion, specially since you're being consequent between your negativity against PvP and the whole medallion thing, i wish i could say the same about the people who became walking salt pillars because of that chain yank.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

Relax and let's see how the new Race mode coming to PVP plays out...

[000l000]

Il y a 5 heures, FrostDragoon a dit :

I get what you're saying, but (1) I still see it as "off topic," and (2) power creep is an inherent part of the game. There will always be a meta and people will always complain about it. None of that seems to be a good reason that we can't/shouldn't have more choice in how we configure our operators.

Power creep is what players choose to do with what the game is offering. No one forces anyone to use any so-called meta gear and content doesn't necessarily requires it either. You can still use low tier weapons and frames and still have fun while completing absolutely any kind of content.

Anyway i'm not sure we can talk about anything being meta in WF, once most weapons can oneshot anything with the right build, what's the point of a "meta" ? We're more talking about popular stuff (for some sheepish reasons) than actual viable options to beat utterly difficult content.

Quite funnily popular weapons aren't necessarily the best ones but Sshh, don't tell anyone cause i don't want to see my favourite rivens be nerfed. 😮

[000l000]

Le 18/09/2019 à 05:31, Grahark a dit :

There IS NO META in this game. Camping Mot for hours is not META. This game is about Fun. Like fun or leave fun. DE don't care if you want to camp and "feel" like you a re E-Peen "winner". 

Don't ever talk about fun in such a thread you fool, everyone knows that games are about grinding, farming or complaining about both.

[Velothed]

2 hours ago, (PS4)FriendSharkey said:

Relax and let's see how the new Race mode coming to PVP plays out...

Oh, I'm very exited for that! I wonder if they talked with the Driftframe folks.

And in contrast to Lunaro, the other pvp mode I'd love to be able to play, you don't need 6 people to have a good game, just one opponent is enough^^

[Kontrollo]

I think this thread builds on a false premise with regards to Universal Medallions.

Namely, it presupposes that all "Syndicates" (everything with Standing) have been and are to be treated equally. That's not the case with the Conclave Syndicate, however, as evidenced by the lack of any exclusive reward in it which grants Mastery points. Now compare that to the others.

Over the years, I thought we've come to a tacit agreement with rewards from PvP gameplay. That is, "there should be no meaningful PvE rewards exclusive to PvP". So that leaves us with cosmetics.

But well, if that doesn't hold true anymore (i.e. if they're going to enable the Conclave Syndicate at a later point), then I'll want to see a lot of attention directed to the Conclave rewards, as well. Syndicate weapons, for example, would be a good start.

 

Now I'm not against making it easier for new people at all, and there are other Conclave players who agree; just look through the Conclave Feedback forum and you'll find quite a few posts with talks about increasing Standing gain and Affinity, which so far have been ignored, too.

[Teridax68]

13 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

I think this thread builds on a false premise with regards to Universal Medallions.

Namely, it presupposes that all "Syndicates" (everything with Standing) have been and are to be treated equally. That's not the case with the Conclave Syndicate, however, as evidenced by the lack of any exclusive reward in it which grants Mastery points. Now compare that to the others.

I don't see why the lack of Mastery-granting exclusive rewards would falsify the premise here, which is founded on progression across all possible metrics, not simply Mastery.

13 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

Over the years, I thought we've come to a tacit agreement with rewards from PvP gameplay. That is, "there should be no meaningful PvE rewards exclusive to PvP". So that leaves us with cosmetics.

But well, if that doesn't hold true anymore (i.e. if they're going to enable the Conclave Syndicate at a later point), then I'll want to see a lot of attention directed to the Conclave rewards, as well. Syndicate weapons, for example, would be a good start.

As discussed above with Stormdragon, there's no reason why Conclave shouldn't be a valid path towards unlocking many more rewards that can already be obtained elsewhere. In fact, one way to make the most of the current situation could be to add Universal Syndicate Medallions as a Conclave offering, so that players would basically be able to cash in their Conclave Standing across the rest of the game if they are so inclined. As discussed above too, however, that is not in itself essential to re-enabling Universal Medallions in Conclave, and ultimately there is still the same fundamental mentality problem as discussed above; namely that there's this warped and malignant concept of "fairness" here that in practice mostly translates to players drawing lines in the sand and then gatekeeping the territory they've arbitrarily claimed for themselves.

[Kontrollo]

10 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

I don't see why the lack of Mastery-granting exclusive rewards would falsify the premise here, which is founded on progression across all possible metrics, not simply Mastery.

Sure, you're trying to present it that way. However, past precedent speaks a different language, and cosmetics are not meaningful progression. They are what's left when you remove all other options.

 

10 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

As discussed above with Stormdragon, there's no reason why Conclave shouldn't be a valid path towards unlocking many more rewards that can already be obtained elsewhere. In fact, one way to make the most of the current situation could be to add Universal Syndicate Medallions as a Conclave offering, so that players would basically be able to cash in their Conclave Standing across the rest of the game if they are so inclined. As discussed above too, however, that is not in itself essential to re-enabling Universal Medallions in Conclave, and ultimately there is still the same fundamental mentality problem as discussed above; namely that there's this warped and malignant concept of "fairness" here that in practice mostly translates to players drawing lines in the sand and then gatekeeping the territory they've arbitrarily claimed for themselves.

And that's a good discussion! It's high time to have constructive discussions like this one.

But it's beside the point I'm making here. Namely, that the Conclave Syndicate has been treated specially beforehand, so it's not hypocritical to treat it specially with regards to Universal Medallions. If that's going to change, other changes must happen, as well.

Edited September 20, 2019 by Kontrollo

[Teridax68]

Just now, Kontrollo said:

Sure, you're trying to present it that way. However, past precedent speaks a different language, and cosmetics are not meaningful progression. They are what's left when you remove all other options.

You seem rather intent to "present" my post as some kind of dishonest attempt to portray the current situation, yet your arguments here are both vague and contradicted by concrete examples I listed: what "past precedent speaks a different language"? What about all of the buildable cosmetics that made up the bulk of fishing/mining-based grinding, whose progression got significantly boosted by the likes of Exploiter and Thumpers? What does it even mean in this context to "remove all other options"?

Just now, Kontrollo said:

But it's beside the point I'm making here. Namely, that the Conclave Syndicate has been treated specially beforehand, so it's not hypocritical to treat it specially with regards to Universal Medallions.

Treated specially how, though? How is this special treatment relevant to the way DE has systemically eased the grinding on their content over time?

Just now, Kontrollo said:

If that's going to change, other changes must happen, as well.

Why?

[Kontrollo]

13 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

You seem rather intent to "present" my post as some kind of dishonest attempt to portray the current situation, yet your arguments here are both vague and contradicted by concrete examples I listed: what "past precedent speaks a different language"? What about all of the buildable cosmetics that made up the bulk of fishing/mining-based grinding, whose progression got significantly boosted by the likes of Exploiter and Thumpers? What does it even mean in this context to "remove all other options"?

Treated specially how, though? How is this special treatment relevant to the way DE has systemically eased the grinding on their content over time?

Why?

No, I'm only pointing out a flaw in your initial argument, please don't stoop to language like "present ... as some kind of dishonest attempt to portray the current situation".

I repeat: I thought over the years we've come to a tacit agreement: "No meaningful PvE rewards locked behind PvP gameplay". Or to be more specific: Nothing that directly impacts PvE gameplay should be attainable exclusively through PvP.

This is not something that has been established by people who like playing PvP, of course. It's about not "forcing" PvE players into PvP modes, and even as someone who likes to play both I agree with this now.

If there are to be any exclusive rewards left in the Conclave Syndicate, then of course they need to be cosmetics.

 

Now, if there are to be no exclusive rewards to the Conclave Syndicate, that tacit agreement needs to go, as well.

Edited September 20, 2019 by Kontrollo
a word

[Teridax68]

2 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

No, I'm only pointing out a flaw in your initial argument, please don't stoop to language like "present ... as some kind of dishonest attempt to portray the current situation".

I am literally using your own words, hence the quotation marks. You don't get to cast aspersions on the honesty of my thread with stuff like "you're trying to present it that way", and then pretend you were merely trying to correct me when called out on it.

2 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

I repeat: I thought over the years we've come to a tacit agreement: "No meaningful PvE rewards locked behind PvP gameplay". Or to be more specific: Nothing that directly impacts PvE gameplay should be attainable exclusively through PvP.

This is not something that has been established by people who like playing PvP, of course. It's about not "forcing" PvE players into PvP modes, and even as someone who likes to play both I agree with this now.

But why is this relevant to the matter at hand? It feels more like you just want to get some feelings on Conclave off your chest than discuss the topic of discussion, which is DE generally rectifying the grind in their game over time, yet arbitrarily selecting some bits of excessive grind to keep, across both PvE and PvP.

2 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

If there are to be any exclusive rewards left in the Conclave Syndicate, then of course they need to be cosmetics.

Why? Why does Conclave need exclusive rewards to begin with? Why is this relevant to the topic at hand?

2 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

Now, if there are to be no exclusive rewards to the Conclave Syndicate, that tacit agreement needs to go, as well.

Why?

[Kontrollo]

1 minute ago, Teridax68 said:

I am literally using your own words, hence the quotation marks. ...

No, you're trying to frame it as a personal attack. I never said it was a "dishonest attempt to portray the current situation", emphasis mine. I was pointing out a flaw in your argument, that's it.

 

4 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

But why is this relevant to the matter at hand? It feels more like you just want to get some feelings on Conclave off your chest than discuss the topic of discussion, which is DE generally rectifying the grind in their game over time, yet arbitrarily selecting some bits of excessive grind to keep, across both PvE and PvP.

Again, because the Conclave has been treated specially before they wanted to make Standing gain universally accessible with a new item.

 

5 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

Why? Why does Conclave need exclusive rewards to begin with? Why is this relevant to the topic at hand?

Because game modes have exclusive rewards to them? Counter question, and to go back to my previous example: Before the Universal Medallion, why was Conclave the only Syndicate without exclusive weapons?

 

11 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

Why?

To remove that special treatment.

[KIREEK]

PVP should have never been made, it was made because players wanted it and as you can see, players that had that opinion no longer show interest.

Having medalions give PVP rep would be one of the worst grinds in warframe since the game began 6 years ago, do you know how many rotations it would take on lua to get enough medalions? I understand you like the disruption gamemode, but jesus, you must really like it to even request such a reward to be used on PVP.

Players sometimes give very inefficient sugestions, but that one is at the very top.

As for mutagen samples, while no easy way of aquiring has been made, it's not difficult to aquire the ones needed. Considering mods, frames, scans and certain rewards are in the derelicts, it's likely that you will visit the derelicts a few times, if you have a clan and no one is donating a single sample, then act as a clan leader and boot the leechers, i often enter the derelicts and i'm able to net a few samples in just 2 minutes, maybe 30 seconds is all it takes to gather a single sample, you telling me active players can't even donate 1? I can't dictate how others manage the clans, but please, open your eyes.

The mutagen sample is also tied with inefficient gameplay, like doing missions and doing 10 kills, if you're looking for an ayatan statue, kill 200, if you're scaning kavats, kill 200 more, if you're farming nekros, kill 300, if you're looking for corrupted mods, kill 250.

Going in, killing 10 enemies and then extracting won't give you anything worthwhile, by the time you're done with the derelicts, you have to do hundreds of missions like the ones you done before to compenssate or you need to sit in survivals for hours.

Warframe has an effort based reward system, you choose todo less effort and you get EXACTLY what you expected.

Complaining won't do you any good. Complaining about hema will simply flag you as an inefficient player, with ALOT to improve.

[Walkampf]

Am 15.9.2019 um 09:21 schrieb Hammerhead_FireCaste:

At this rate, DE will probably need make a choice on who to please: the new players, or the entitled vets?

I think, you are oversimplifying the issue.

Personally, I'm a pretty constant player, since April 2013, MR26 and probably way more playtime than what you'd consider healthy.

And people like me are completly neglected in this question!

I don't like to use the term vet, but by it's definition I'm part of the vets, and yet, I whouldn't mind having universal medallions for conclave. I'd even like this.

And regarding the Hema, I've got it and it was actually quite fun, grinding the Samples back with my Clan and I think the weapon is actually worth the cost and yet, I whouldn't mind if the cost were lowered. It doesn't reduce all the playtime with it and all the times it saved my hide.

 

So, long story shot, it's not the question of 'New players VS entitled vets'

but actually:

'New Players + Vets who have certain very specific stuff not yet + players who generally don't care VS entitled Vets'

[Teridax68]

10 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

No, you're trying to frame it as a personal attack. I never said it was a "dishonest attempt to portray the current situation", emphasis mine. I was pointing out a flaw in your argument, that's it.

Except I'm not framing this as an attack on my person, I am merely pointing out the obvious fact that you've insinuated that my thread was dishonest, a fact that you are now denying. You wouldn't be attributing intentionality to my supposedly flawed presentation if you were merely correcting an honest mistake.

10 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

Again, because the Conclave has been treated specially before they wanted to make Standing gain universally accessible with a new item.

Specially how? In what way is that special treatment relevant to the topic of discussion? Be specific; nothing you are saying here answers the question you are being asked.

10 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

Because game modes have exclusive rewards to them?

Not all game modes, and many modes tied to syndicates will no longer have exclusive rewards after players will be able to access those through Universal Medallions. Tell me again, then, why Conclave deserves special status.

10 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

Counter question, and to go back to my previous example: Before the Universal Medallion, why was Conclave the only Syndicate without exclusive weapons?

But this isn't even true, the Ventkids don't give exclusive weapons either. Why is the existence of exclusive weapons in a syndicate relevant to the discussion here?

10 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

To remove that special treatment.

But that makes no sense, again because Universal Medallions themselves remove the exclusivity to many syndicate items, so why ask to keep that exclusivity? What even are you asking at this point?

13 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

Having medalions give PVP rep would be one of the worst grinds in warframe since the game began 6 years ago, do you know how many rotations it would take on lua to get enough medalions? I understand you like the disruption gamemode, but jesus, you must really like it to even request such a reward to be used on PVP.

You seem to have forgotten that the alternative way of grinding Conclave is to play Conclave. Nobody is asking to force players to grind Disruption, nor is anyone asking for any faster means of grinding Conclave here.

13 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

As for mutagen samples, while no easy way of aquiring has been made, it's not difficult to aquire the ones needed. Considering mods, frames, scans and certain rewards are in the derelicts, it's likely that you will visit the derelicts a few times, if you have a clan and no one is donating a single sample, then act as a clan leader and boot the leechers, i often enter the derelicts and i'm able to net a few samples in just 2 minutes, maybe 30 seconds is all it takes to gather a single sample, you telling me active players can't even donate 1? I can't dictate how others manage the clans, but please, open your eyes.

The mutagen sample is also tied with inefficient gameplay, like doing missions and doing 10 kills, if you're looking for an ayatan statue, kill 200, if you're scaning kavats, kill 200 more, if you're farming nekros, kill 300, if you're looking for corrupted mods, kill 250.

Going in, killing 10 enemies and then extracting won't give you anything worthwhile, by the time you're done with the derelicts, you have to do hundreds of missions like the ones you done before to compenssate or you need to sit in survivals for hours.

Warframe has an effort based reward system, you choose todo less effort and you get EXACTLY what you expected.

Complaining won't do you any good. Complaining about hema will simply flag you as an inefficient player, with ALOT to improve.

So just to be clear, I have in fact farmed the Hema single-handedly, as I am the only member of my clan. I have spent many hours running ODD with the exact same team composition, and a whole bunch of boosters, engaging in the same repetitive gameplay just to research this one item that's not even good. This is after years of accumulating Mutagen Samples naturally, which did not even cover the tenth of the research requirements. I am thus acutely aware of the fact that the Hema takes significantly more time to farm than the near-totality of weapons, and that the grind is thus pointlessly excessive.

As a MR 27 player who has earned all of the Mastery items I've obtained through grinding, I am well aware of the fact that Warframe expects a time commitment from its players, which you, at MR 16, are in no position to lecture me on. However, the fact that Warframe asks its players to commit time for its rewards does not prevent the time commitment from being excessive for some items, which is precisely why DE themselves have toned it down, as noted in the above examples. The only reason they did this was in response to player feedback, thus complaining has, in fact, done us and the game good. What doesn't help, though, is when players go on the forums purely to complain about the complainers, and take some trite contrarian stance where they brag about how they didn't find X as bad as most people, and thus must be better than everyone else. You might therefore want to reevaluate your approach, particularly since it doesn't quite work to talk about effort when discussing the Hema, but then claim that it would be too much effort for your tastes to grind Conclave through Universal Medallions.

[KIREEK]

4 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

As a MR 27 player who has earned all of the Mastery items I've obtained through grinding, I am well aware of the fact that Warframe expects a time commitment from its players, which you, at MR 16, are in no position to lecture me on

This ruined your argument sadly, using MR? really?

I'm out sorry.

I could lecture you, i really could, but i won't. Less experienced players using MR in an argument, i'm not going to bother with that at all

[(PSN)Double991]

With all the salt and hate that gets thrown at conclave, why would you even want the cosmetics? The mods only work in conclave and the ones that work in pve have pve drop sources like syndicates and Sentients. 

The best conclave armor sells in the market for platinum and the syandana is a hunk of metal unless you play the mode actively. 

So let's say you rank it up with the medallion to get the weapon skins or the captura scenes, just to show people that you played conclave (or not?)

The medallion is currently worth 1000 rep right? Honestly I don't even care if it worked for conclave but if you'd rather grind that instead of  just playing conclave, I'd say you're wasting your time.

Edited September 20, 2019 by (PS4)Double991

[Teridax68]

7 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

This ruined your argument sadly, using MR? really?

I'm out sorry.

I could lecture you, i really could, but i won't. Less experienced players using MR in an argument, i'm not going to bother with that at all

Then you should have stayed out of this argument altogether, as MR, the points system progressed by grinding for items that award it, is in fact relevant to the topic of grinding and time commitment in Warframe. The fact remains that you have visibly less to show for your time spent in Warframe, meaning you also chose to put less effort into grinding than the person you are attempting to lecture on grinding or Warframe's "effort based reward system".

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Double991 said:

With all the salt and hate that gets thrown at conclave, why would you even want the cosmetics? The mods only work in conclave and the ones that work in pve have pve drop sources like syndicates and Sentients. 

Okay, but so what? This isn't about the particularities of whether or not individual players like the cosmetics or the mods or whatever, it's about keeping consistent standards of design across the game, and doing the same things for the same reasons, which DE visibly haven't been doing on some specific occasions.