The Reality of the Rift - How to make Limbo a more friendly frame

[IonSlug]

Greetings Tenno young and old! I am sure that many of you are familiar with the unfamiliarity of Limbo, a frame as shrowded as the rift itself and how it came to be. Limbo is quite the enigma... An aspect I feel many have grown to hate as confusion has always lead to anger. I've been playing warframe for a good while at this point and the majority of it has been spent with my favourite space magician, Limbo, I've learned the insides and outsides of the rift and its mechanics and know everything there is to know, but of course for my team that just isn't the case, and I can understand as to a degree it isn't their job to understand since the rift to most is not a common mechanic for them to interact with!

So... how about we change that? I am well aware that it will be a long while, if not eternity until Limbo is looked at again but nonetheless I wish to throw down my cards and show what I have to offer in terms of ideas.

Quick warning, things may get a bit wordy, trying to describe new ideas and every piece of how they function can be difficult

Limbos passive

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As most may or may not know Limbos passive is that he can enter and exit the rift at will by rolling, leaving a small tear in reality that team mates can walk into and enter the rift aswell! A good idea on paper, too bad theories don't always work (The original limbo would know all about that hah) This portal is capable of being a nuisance to both your time and yourself, some times I enter the rift on accident and the portal is RIGHT next to a terminal, and because of that neither me nor my team can go near it for a while until the portal goes away!

Due to this problem I suggest removing this portal all together, and replace it! Yes I know replacing things is a lazy way of working but I think it's literally the only thing we can do with this damn passive... So the portal is gone, does that mean your team now relies on banish? Well no, atleast not for this idea.. Rather than having Limbo being the only frame that can roll in and out of the rift his team mates should be allowed to do this as well! This removes the frustration of seeing a group of banished enemies and not being able to do anything. And your team mates can roll to avoid danger just like the magician! Now in some cases this could become very over powered, so a quick solution is that team mates CAN enter the rift, but they cant stay forever, I'd say that the new passive effect only lasts for the half the time that the Limbos banish can last. Alongside this the "Rift Haven" augment will not be activated by team mates using this new passive, having an even more unkillable Inaros is not what we need... Look I get that you mummies don't like dying but please, you are godly enough already, calm down and just use Adaptation.

 

Now should DE not want change the passive for whatever reason then what? Here's what, Update banish! 

 

The New Banish

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Banish, the most annoying ability Limbo has, many trolls love this ability and as such have ruined it for genuine Limbo players... Until now! Banish will remain the same for enemies, one flick of the hand and POOF! To the rift with 'em! What will be changing is the effect it has on your team. Rather than forcefully sending your team mate to the rift they will instead get a buff, that essentially grants them Limbos current passive for the remainder of Banish, Less comfusion, more synergy! 

 

Now yes I realize the problem that now team mates may have to change their playstyle a bit, but frankly I don't think the world will end if you have to press shift a few times, you do it to move around anyway! 

 

For the moment that is all I can think of, if you have any other ideas do reply! (But be respectful, we are all adults here)

Enjoy the rest of your day Tenno, and good luck with the grind!

[belanya]

il y a 5 minutes, BestDisguise a dit :

Rather than having Limbo being the only frame that can roll in and out of the rift his team mates should be allowed to do this as well

This is probably one of the worst idea i've ever seen....

[Steru]

7 minutes ago, BestDisguise said:

Banish, the most annoying ability Limbo has, many trolls love this ability and as such have ruined it for genuine Limbo players... Until now! Banish will remain the same for enemies, one flick of the hand and POOF! To the rift with 'em! What will be changing is the effect it has on your team. Rather than forcefully sending your team mate to the rift they will instead get a buff, that essentially grants them Limbos current passive for the remainder of Banish, Less comfusion, more synergy! 

 

Now yes I realize the problem that now team mates may have to change their playstyle a bit, but frankly I don't think the world will end if you have to press shift a few times, you do it to move around anyway! 

Dreadfull

Instead of rolling once to get out of the rift, teammates would have to roll a second time every time they roll for any reason, for the entire duration of the ability

[Alithard]

While I think the passive does not need to be changed all that much, I do agree that the time limbo takes to shift between dimensions is very long and can kill him if the player is not careful.  However, I do like the banish ability allowing teammates to shift between dimensions at will like limbo does for a limited time.

 

Referring to the previous statement that limbo's passive does not need to be changed all that much, it still needs some changes.  For example:

 

Shorten limbo's shift to be instant or almost instant.

get rid of the scar that is left behind when limbo decides to go into the rift. I agree with the statement that limbo's portal should be removed, simply for the fact that it does make it more annoying for players.

 

Some personal changes that I would like to add to this statement is that I would like to tell who and who is not in the rift at a glance instead of having to use stasis just to check.

Edited October 3, 2019 by Alithard

[(PSN)Mono-Pop]

Realistically, Limbo just needs to be changed so that he doesn’t make his allies guns “stop working.”

Limbo can do whatever he likes with his rift, but it should never come at a disadvantage to his own squad.

I don’t understand why such problematic design has been allowed to exist for so long.

[0_The_F00l]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Mono-Pop said:

I don’t understand why such problematic design has been allowed to exist for so long.

Cause soonTM

As to the main topic. 

A limbo passive rework is not really necessary, what is needed is for the "portal" allowing frames to only roll though it to enter the rift. 

I.e let the scar stay, you would need to actively roll through it to enter the rift. Hell, rolling through limbo should allow you to enter it too. 

 

Banish on the other hand, the ability to enter and exit at will sounds interesting, but it will just cause the same issues we have, wasted bullets cause I can't tell which side of the rift I am on,does not solve the issue. 

 

[Loza03]

Allowing teammates to roll in the rift is a good idea, but not just unilaterally, as people have expressed. I'd limit it to being within a certain vicinity of a rift-bound enemy or if affected by banish. That way, people's play isn't too interrupted when they're not near the Riftmaster or his effects themselves.

[Aeon94]

31 minutes ago, BestDisguise said:

Rather than forcefully sending your team mate to the rift they will instead get a buff, that essentially grants them Limbos current passive for the remainder of Banish, Less comfusion, more synergy! 

Back off Satan. (jk)

This idea is worse than current Banish. Allies are forced to play like Limbo for the full duration of Banish unless they jump into a pit.

Imagine it with max duration Limbo , god its such a nightmare to get punished with each roll.

People WON'T be happy with anything that alters their playstyles in negative ways and it will cause much more issues with Limbo.

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

They should just go full time wizard with him. His current iteration is a compromise and doesn't work well at all in terms of team synergy. 

Here's how I imagine it: Rift mechanics gone. If an ally gets rifted, it's an energy regen buff. Banish is back to single target but completely freezes the enemy. Cataclysm doesn't block outside damage but does massively slow down enemies within and slows or stops bullets mid-air like stasis used to do. Now that two abilities already do what stasis did, replace that with a new ability. Rework done, everyone loves him now. 

Edited October 3, 2019 by (PS4)Tactless_Ninja

[Rakosta_Kai]

Not crazy about these ideas for a couple of reasons...

1.  Limbo's rift dash can be dispelled already, easily enough, by other players and the rifts don't remain open for long regardless. It's no different than dispelling Volt's speed boost if you don't care to have it on.
2.  The changes proposed don't resolve player's biggest issue with Limbo. That being the fact that they are blocked from hitting enemies in the opposite rift orientation.

The ideas are not bad insomuch as they bubble-wrap select Limbo mechanics from all other players with the exact same conditions and mechanics that annoy so many now. It's simpler to create a scenario where the complaining players have nothing to complain about to begin with.

Here are some other ideas to consider...

• DE could( and should have...years ago) add a toggle that kept players from receiving buffs/effects like that altogether in the settings. Problem solved permanently.
• I would rather see any attack be able to reach an enemy regardless of their rift orientation (for players that aren't Limbo)... But attacks from the rift on enemies in the rift receive a considerable crit chance/mod buff for other players.

Then Limbo becomes both offensive and defensive support in groups. People lose nothing if they don't choose to play that way but get the benefits if they do.

The largest issue with Limbo is that to play with him on your team traps that player into adopting Limbo's play mechanics and that isn't going to be desired by everyone.

[N3ON.]

Hello, this is totally off topic and I want to ask about Banish. During a rescue mission, I banished the target after we found him, then my friend reached the elevator and we stood there for a whole 10seconds, I was waiting for him to press the elevator button. 

He was actually in the rift! I don't remember banishing him, I pressed just once on the target and went off to the extraction. Is banish affected by range that you can banish a whole group of enemies with just one button? 

I would suggest modifying on how we see being in the rift so people know that they entered the rift. 

Sorry for my potato English

Edited October 3, 2019 by N3ON.

[PsiWarp]

@N3ON. Banish is a cone-shape area of effect. Anything inside this cone that is on the same dimensional plane as you, the casting Limbo, are, will be banished to the opposite dimension.

So even if you directly point at the Rescue Target and cast 1, anything else in that general direction will be affected too. Either your ally was Banished by you, or he walk through one of your dodge roll Rift portals on the way to the elevator.

Yes, Banish is affected by Range, the size of the pizza slice cone will be longer or shorter.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

Honestly the problem is that many players just suck. 

Warframe is a game where we're encouraged to use the right tools for the job. But what isn't universally recognised is that we need to know how to use those tools effectively. 

Yeah Limbo makes that bubble which can be a pain in the butt, but frost does the same thing. And I'm sure we've all run into frosts who just leave bubbles all over the map. The difference is that we generally blame the player and not the frame when it's frost. 

Yeah Limbo can leave enemies trapped in the rift delaying defense missions, but Garuda's spikes do the same thing. 

A well played Limbo can be a blessing to the team exactly as he is right now. Well played Limbos are rare. 

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

12 minutes ago, PsiWarp said:

@N3ON. Banish is a cone-shape area of effect. Anything inside this cone that is on the same dimensional plane as you, the casting Limbo, are, will be banished to the opposite dimension.

That change was so stupid. It's because they wanted you to shotgun your allies into the rift as well, alleviating the 'i can't hit anything' issue but it solved nothing and is basically useless compared to casting cataclysm once and trapping everything.

Old Limbo it was used for sniping targets and removing dangerous opponents. Limbo had a better niche back then compared to 'durrrrrstasis everything and call it a day thing' we have now. 

Edited October 3, 2019 by (PS4)Tactless_Ninja

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

I've suggested an almost identical rework in the past, but not with much support. 

I then suggested a more drastic change to the Rift and Banish mechanics that gave less powerful benefits but without the drawbacks allies currently suffer (Cataclysm was excluded from this change since it's easily controllable for entering and exiting - so it still has full benefits and drawbacks). That one had more support from players in general, but more Limbo mains hated it (he's my third most used frame as well). I still believe his portal needs to go. I've never had an ally intentionally use the portal since the rework, and more often than not I am the one accidentally dodging back into my own portal (there is literally zero reasons for Limbo to need to be affected by his own portal).

11 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Hell, rolling through limbo should allow you to enter it too. 

This would actually be an awesome alternative to the portal mechanic, or at least within a small radius of him or any banished targets.

14 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

I can't tell which side of the rift I am on,does not solve the issue. 

This is the other major issue players have, including myself as Limbo. Staying in it too long and my eyes no longer notice the color shift. Those tendrils on the ground need to be far more blatant for players. And enemies need to have contrasting black/white patterns when rifted for players on opposite plane to see clearly in all environments. 

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

Banish should be removed all together imo lol. Its an ability that prevents your allys from attacking some enemies, like old hydroid pool ability did lol. 

[mikakor]

Sadly, the only real way to get Limbo more team friendly would be to outright let players kill stuff from inside the rift... Which is dumb OP, even for a Limbo main as myself. You think Inaros and Loki are easy mode? That map wide killing should be be nerfed? HA! YOU FOOL!!! I am now a god, able to kill anyone in this mortal realm without any repercussions!!!

And honestly, this would be... Too strong. ( But hey, for once people would think my limbo is actually something else than troll material only xD )

 

Visibility is also another big issue.

Edited October 3, 2019 by mikakor

[Blekinfar]

20 minutes ago, (PS4)Ozymandias-13- said:

This is the other major issue players have, including myself as Limbo. Staying in it too long and my eyes no longer notice the color shift. Those tendrils on the ground need to be far more blatant for players. And enemies need to have contrasting black/white patterns when rifted for players on opposite plane to see clearly in all environments. 

Like a negative picture, that would help greatly.  It could effect those in the rift as a "color based effect" when inside the rift.

I would love to play my Limbo Prime more.  This change alone would help immensely.  There are always enemies or allies caught in that cone, that I thought would not have been and then time, bullets, effects, etc is lost or confused, you know.  My wife wanted him as her "main" but could not deal with the ambiguity of the rift in this way.

 

[IonSlug]

Apologies I couldn't respond sooner I had a few technical difficulties, I'm glad to see people pointing out some errors and flaws with my ideas and suggesting alternatives or their own ideas! I will do my best to take this as a learning experience!

[IonSlug]

9 minutes ago, ChaosSabre said:

You do know you can cancel banish by just rolling on yourself?

Oh I do, I do... but a lot of people don't, or get quite annoyed about it

[(NSW)1kSakura]

Limbo is fine as he is right now. If an ally or an enemy got banished without anyone realizing, which hinders the flow of the game, well it sucks! But people should learn how to move on. Unless people are actually trolling with Limbo’s abilities, we should know not to get mad easily. If you found out you’re playing with a Limbo on public, then make your decision as soon as possible. Leave the game, or stay and willingly cooperate with the Limbo player. We don’t know everything when we just started the game. We make mistakes and learn from it. If you’re a person who values your time a lot, which I do too, it does really suck. But you have to put yourself on that other player’s shoes. Are they doing this on purpose? Are they just trying to learn Limbo as they level him up? You could say that “Well, maybe they should watch guide videos on youtube or practice in the simulacrum!” While that is true and will benefit everyone else, you’d be surprised that some people don’t know that these resources exist. 

Additionally, I do not agree with that passive idea. Limbo’s abilities are so unique to him that this new passive just doesn’t make sense. If you’re worried about the portal, it lasts only a few seconds and should not cause any trouble. I get it, everyone wants to be time efficient because they don’t have all day to play the game. But playing with others is a compromise. You should understand that playing with people on public will limit your gameplay style in some type of way.

[Kerberos-3]

5 hours ago, Alithard said:

While I think the passive does not need to be changed all that much, I do agree that the time limbo takes to shift between dimensions is very long and can kill him if the player is not careful.  However, I do like the banish ability allowing teammates to shift between dimensions at will like limbo does for a limited time.

 

Referring to the previous statement that limbo's passive does not need to be changed all that much, it still needs some changes.  For example:

 

Shorten limbo's shift to be instant or almost instant.

get rid of the scar that is left behind when limbo decides to go into the rift. I agree with the statement that limbo's portal should be removed, simply for the fact that it does make it more annoying for players.

 

Some personal changes that I would like to add to this statement is that I would like to tell who and who is not in the rift at a glance instead of having to use stasis just to check.

The problem with this change is that it takes away from the main draw of Limbo in Sortie Defense, which is banishing the target NPC so that he can't be hurt. It's pretty much the only time a good Limbo uses Banish, and taking that away pretty much makes Banish a dead ability.

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

Get rid of or change the 1. You shouldn't be able to bring everyone in and out of the rift. Let them enter the bubble on their own terms, but a blanket "let me move everyone" is what upsets people I guess.

If the bubble reaches a second floor and traps enemies there, then make it only viable on whatever floor you are on.

 

Edit: people can roll out of the rift. I like limbo as-is. It's great for people that actually plan things out and communicate, but for random, misinformed noobs that cant read or research, you need to make a small range limbo so dont affect your public team.

Edited October 3, 2019 by (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu
Added

[Alithard]

1 hour ago, Kerberos-3 said:

The problem with this change is that it takes away from the main draw of Limbo in Sortie Defense, which is banishing the target NPC so that he can't be hurt. It's pretty much the only time a good Limbo uses Banish, and taking that away pretty much makes Banish a dead ability.

I think I may have forgot about that function at the time of writing that post... honest mistake on my part.

 

[Kerberos-3]

5 minutes ago, Alithard said:

I think I may have forgot about that function at the time of writing that post... honest mistake on my part.

 

It is. To be honest, the only changes I would make to Limbo myself would be to remove the portal when rolling into the Rift, and returning Banish to it's pre-rework form. The single-target Banish was a much more efficient ability, since you could easily use it to pick a target out of a crowd or banish the Sortie Defense NPC without the risk of accidentally banishing your allies.

Edited October 3, 2019 by Kerberos-3