Requiem Mods will supposedly have 'charges' and will be consumed after a few uses. What is your opinion on that?

[Avienas]

24 minutes ago, DLDeath said:

I wouldn't want charges on mods since I don't want to continuously farm for these requiem mods.  Just make the permanent since we need to do some detective work to find the correct code to kill the lich.  Why waste my time doing a detour to find a requiem mod that I had previously but my charges ran out.  That will make me not hunt these liches at all.   

Agreed, D.E. could of planned this better by having plenty of combinations to work with, since we got say what, 5 unique mods or so and 3 slots to put them in, well, it would a bit of a pain to list all the 3 digit combinations with 5 possible slots, but if one could have the same word used multiple ties, a person could easily need around 15 mods to work with, which could lead to quite a bit of farming if D.E. is already putting a frustrating system in.

Honestly this is why i would rather we could just cram kuva in them to recharge the mods instead of being forced to scrape for fresh copies. Which again, Its a cluster fk of multiple grinding and rng-sus just to get the relic, get the mod and then stock multiple of them, especially if the possibility of using duplicate types exist. Even worst if each slot has a unique polarity, so even if they have the same word, the polarity could ruin that.

If D.E. really wanted to make this a re playable thing, then they could of simply had more letter combinations and require 2 or even 3 mission runs to uncover one word and make each round to uncover more words get a increase in enemy level, till your dealing with enemies in the arbitation tier by the time your chasing that last word you need to figure out. Which might also be nice if one can figure out said words in advance, such as following the pattern of the first 2 words to figure what the last one can cover, if all requiem word mods cannot be the same word at all in the 3 slots.

[Numerikuu]

19 hours ago, Genitive said:

I expected something like that, otherwise people would just get all the mods and deal with liches very quickly, leaving them with no content to play.

I'm fine with that.

^This.

[Ein0r]

I dont really care about the requiem charges. They don't matter in the beginning because you will take every weapon you get and every weapon you can get because of your limited variety of requiem mods. Later on you will have enough charges to pick and choose. And if you don't want to use your charges you can still just capture the lich instead of vanquishing it.

[Helch0rn]

I just want another way to farm the relics.

not a fan of kuva siphon

[(PSN)thegarada]

There is still much on how fighting Kuva liches will work that we do not know. I cannot have an opinion on something that I dunno how it works. 

[SneakyErvin]

4 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

I dislike the idea, and in general I'm not a fan of the durability/consumable systems DE seems to be intent on implementing as a means of injecting replayability into content. Making these mods consumable creates a problem where, in order for anyone to care about actually using them, these mods need to be powerful enough to justify their use. If they're only as powerful as our regular mods, then there's no point... which means that if we're to see Requiem mods in play, they're going to power creep us even further, which is obviously not great. Moreover, the fact that these apparently degrade upon vanquishing Liches risks achieving the opposite of its intended effect, by actively disincentivizing us to engage with Liches just to avoid mod degradation. Time will tell how this system turns out in practice, but I don't see what good will come from consumable mods.

The mods in question are not mods like regular mods. These will be things that go into your "Robocop" thingy specifically to take down liches, dedicated to their own specific slots on that item. So there would likely be no reason to hold onto charges, since the things are there in order to kill the lich, that is their purpose.

This limited charge thing is probably so you cant just chain kill liches of different types back to back. Lets say lich one requires mod 1, 3 and 4 while the lich that pops after requires mod 1, 2 and 5. After enough liches you will eventually run out of charges in some of those mods, which requires you to go back to doing kuva missions to get relics to get more charges from cracking them later on. If they never ran out of charges you'd simply need one of each mod and then just chain kill away as you see fit, swapping the active mods as needed for the right kill order sequence or whatever theyll call it.

[EmberStar]

4 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

I dislike the idea, and in general I'm not a fan of the durability/consumable systems DE seems to be intent on implementing as a means of injecting replayability into content. Making these mods consumable creates a problem where, in order for anyone to care about actually using them, these mods need to be powerful enough to justify their use. If they're only as powerful as our regular mods, then there's no point... which means that if we're to see Requiem mods in play, they're going to power creep us even further, which is obviously not great. Moreover, the fact that these apparently degrade upon vanquishing Liches risks achieving the opposite of its intended effect, by actively disincentivizing us to engage with Liches just to avoid mod degradation. Time will tell how this system turns out in practice, but I don't see what good will come from consumable mods.

I'm not sure that will be an issue, at least not in the sense of power creep.  Based on the screenshots they've shown, the Requiem mods don't have any function or listed bonuses at all.  The only thing they do is create the invocation you need to try to kill a Lich.  The Parazon can equip six mods.  The bottom three are exclusively for utility, and since Daggers (temporarily) get to keep Covert Lethality the one they've shown that exists already is Infiltrator.  A mod that increases the timer on the hacking minigames.  The top three slots are reserved for Requiem mods.  And those seem to consist of what is essentially a rune, along with a cryptic sounding phrase of goth poetry.  They don't *do* anything in normal gameplay, they only exist as Lich poison.

Again, based on what they've shown so far.  if Requiem mods do have some kind of mechanical bonus, it wasn't listed on the ones they've shown.

[EmberStar]

6 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

The mods in question are not mods like regular mods. These will be things that go into your "Robocop" thingy specifically to take down liches, dedicated to their own specific slots on that item. So there would likely be no reason to hold onto charges, since the things are there in order to kill the lich, that is their purpose.

This limited charge thing is probably so you cant just chain kill liches of different types back to back. Lets say lich one requires mod 1, 3 and 4 while the lich that pops after requires mod 1, 2 and 5. After enough liches you will eventually run out of charges in some of those mods, which requires you to go back to doing kuva missions to get relics to get more charges from cracking them later on. If they never ran out of charges you'd simply need one of each mod and then just chain kill away as you see fit, swapping the active mods as needed for the right kill order sequence or whatever theyll call it.

I understand why they're doing it.  I still don't like it.  I don't find fighting in the kuva fortress to be enjoyable to begin with, nor do I particularly enjoy Kiva Siphon missions.  (Both of which will now be required to get these mods.)  This is a system that forces me to grind content I don't enjoy and would rather avoid, for the arbitrary reason that they decided the mods should decay.  A better system would be if the mods did NOT decay, and there was a system for trading duplicates in for some other resource.  Such as Kuva or Riven Shards.  People who WANT to play the missions would still be rewarded for doing so.  People who DON'T enjoy the Kuva missions could do it enough to get a full set and then NOT have to be burned out doing something they would prefer to avoid.

[Cerebrum123]

17 hours ago, EmberStar said:

I'm not fond of the idea.  It seems like the same thing they tried with the Echos of Umbra - "Oh, we have to make this content repeatable.  Let's do that by including a consumable resource that people can only get by grinding this content!"  Rather than, you know, making the content actually interesting.  I'd assume part of the reason that people don't play in the Kuva Fortress *now* is that it's a confusing maze, there are several tiles where the minimap is basically useless, and the enemies are just kind of basic Grineer but with more base armor and health.  Oh, and the security systems are annoying since they can't be disabled.  Especially when you're playing a mobile defense and one of the terminals decides to spawn in the sweep zone of the laser scanners.

Echoes of Umbra? What was that, as I must have missed it.

[EmberStar]

10 minutes ago, Cerebrum123 said:

Echoes of Umbra? What was that, as I must have missed it.

An addition that they decided to take back to the drawing board after many, many people said that they weren't interested in grinding for a consumable Warframe upgrade.  It was going to be a 24 hour booster that you could craft and install on a warframe that would allow that frame to walk around during Transference.  Sort of like Excalibur Umbra, but without the ability to use Warframe powers.  They wanted to force people to grind the new Disruption maps by making it a consumable that would expire so you'd have to grind for more.  A lot of people just didn't care for the idea at all (because honestly it's just a worse version of Specters, even if it would actually use your modded weapons instead of equipping a generic version.)  Of the ones who were interested in Echos, almost no one was thrilled at the idea of grinding for a booster that they'd be able to USE for as much as a couple of hours of actual playtime before it self destructed.

It looks like the devs learned exactly the *wrong* lesson about what it was people didn't like about the idea.

[Renegade343]

Just now, EmberStar said:

An addition that they decided to take back to the drawing board after many, many people said that they weren't interested in grinding for a consumable Warframe upgrade.  It was going to be a 24 hour booster that you could craft and install on a warframe that would allow that frame to walk around during Transference.  Sort of like Excalibur Umbra, but without the ability to use Warframe powers.  They wanted to force people to grind the new Disruption maps by making it a consumable that would expire so you'd have to grind for more.  A lot of people just didn't care for the idea at all (because honestly it's just a worse version of Specters, even if it would actually use your modded weapons instead of equipping a generic version.)  Of the ones who were interested in Echos, almost no one was thrilled at the idea of grinding for a booster that they'd be able to USE for as much as a couple of hours of actual playtime before it self destructed.

It looks like the devs learned exactly the *wrong* lesson about what it was people didn't like about the idea.

I mean, somebody suggested Umbral Forma for it as the replacement reward, and people liked that, so not sure whether that'll be worked in somehow when they took the idea back to redesign.

[No1NParticular31]

So simple question: Once you get these "charged" mods, do you also need to spend credits and Endo to upgrade them like normal mods? I can't see spending a ton of Endo on a mod that isn't going to last long. Also if you can kill Litches without the mods (as it stands to reason if that is how you obtain them in the first place) then why even bother "farming" them? Just use what you happen to get and not sweat it.

[Cerebrum123]

33 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

An addition that they decided to take back to the drawing board after many, many people said that they weren't interested in grinding for a consumable Warframe upgrade.  It was going to be a 24 hour booster that you could craft and install on a warframe that would allow that frame to walk around during Transference.  Sort of like Excalibur Umbra, but without the ability to use Warframe powers.  They wanted to force people to grind the new Disruption maps by making it a consumable that would expire so you'd have to grind for more.  A lot of people just didn't care for the idea at all (because honestly it's just a worse version of Specters, even if it would actually use your modded weapons instead of equipping a generic version.)  Of the ones who were interested in Echos, almost no one was thrilled at the idea of grinding for a booster that they'd be able to USE for as much as a couple of hours of actual playtime before it self destructed.

It looks like the devs learned exactly the *wrong* lesson about what it was people didn't like about the idea.

Ah, ok. Thanks for the explanation. Might have been neat if it worked like how archwing charges do now in open world areas.

[Teridax68]

1 hour ago, EmberStar said:

I'm not sure that will be an issue, at least not in the sense of power creep.  Based on the screenshots they've shown, the Requiem mods don't have any function or listed bonuses at all.  The only thing they do is create the invocation you need to try to kill a Lich.  The Parazon can equip six mods.  The bottom three are exclusively for utility, and since Daggers (temporarily) get to keep Covert Lethality the one they've shown that exists already is Infiltrator.  A mod that increases the timer on the hacking minigames.  The top three slots are reserved for Requiem mods.  And those seem to consist of what is essentially a rune, along with a cryptic sounding phrase of goth poetry.  They don't *do* anything in normal gameplay, they only exist as Lich poison.

Again, based on what they've shown so far.  if Requiem mods do have some kind of mechanical bonus, it wasn't listed on the ones they've shown.

 

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

The mods in question are not mods like regular mods. These will be things that go into your "Robocop" thingy specifically to take down liches, dedicated to their own specific slots on that item. So there would likely be no reason to hold onto charges, since the things are there in order to kill the lich, that is their purpose.

This limited charge thing is probably so you cant just chain kill liches of different types back to back. Lets say lich one requires mod 1, 3 and 4 while the lich that pops after requires mod 1, 2 and 5. After enough liches you will eventually run out of charges in some of those mods, which requires you to go back to doing kuva missions to get relics to get more charges from cracking them later on. If they never ran out of charges you'd simply need one of each mod and then just chain kill away as you see fit, swapping the active mods as needed for the right kill order sequence or whatever theyll call it.

If the goal is simply to act as a key to Liches, though, there's got to be a better way than just fiddling through mod screens. If the mods are supposed to be some kind of code against Liches based on type, that's going to get figured out and documented extremely quickly, too, so I still don't think that justifies having more consumable items, over simply structuring Lich encounters in such a way that you can't kill them permanently in the first fight.

[SneakyErvin]

6 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

 

If the goal is simply to act as a key to Liches, though, there's got to be a better way than just fiddling through mod screens. If the mods are supposed to be some kind of code against Liches based on type, that's going to get figured out and documented extremely quickly, too, so I still don't think that justifies having more consumable items, over simply structuring Lich encounters in such a way that you can't kill them permanently in the first fight.

We dont know if it will even be possible to document. Each spawned Lich may have a very personalized code tied to it, one that gets RNG generated for you when they spawn. We dont even know if there will be any identical liches or simply an "infinite" RNG based pool of Liches, which is kinda required in order to grind weapons with stats you want.

[Teridax68]

3 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

We dont know if it will even be possible to document. Each spawned Lich may have a very personalized code tied to it, one that gets RNG generated for you when they spawn. We dont even know if there will be any identical liches or simply an "infinite" RNG based pool of Liches, which is kinda required in order to grind weapons with stats you want.

If the mods required to kill the Liches are both consumable and RNG-based, then we're basically back at Relics for Lich grinding, which means a whole wall of randomized busywork just to deal with what is meant to be a looming threat. That's not really great either.

[SneakyErvin]

2 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

If the mods required to kill the Liches are both consumable and RNG-based, then we're basically back at Relics for Lich grinding, which means a whole wall of randomized busywork just to deal with what is meant to be a looming threat. That's not really great either.

That depends how it is set up. They've also said we can use dupe mods for something, probably recharging other depleted mods of a different kind. Plus the relics will be useful for alot of other things, Liches arent the only part of the Lich system that makes them worthwhile.

I'm more of the opinion that we are finaly getting something that could be worthy to call actual endgame.

 

[Teridax68]

Just now, SneakyErvin said:

That depends how it is set up. They've also said we can use dupe mods for something, probably recharging other depleted mods of a different kind. Plus the relics will be useful for alot of other things, Liches arent the only part of the Lich system that makes them worthwhile.

I'm more of the opinion that we are finaly getting something that could be worthy to call actual endgame.

I doubt it, especially since if we can accumulate duplicate mods, we'll eventually just bypass that grind wall against Liches anyway. Liches can certainly add replayability on their own, but this Requiem mod system looks like one of those short-term RNG grind barriers DE has a habit of implementing that doesn't actually manage to prevent veterans from blazing through content, so much as annoying anyone who has to deal with it.

[SneakyErvin]

12 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

I doubt it, especially since if we can accumulate duplicate mods, we'll eventually just bypass that grind wall against Liches anyway. Liches can certainly add replayability on their own, but this Requiem mod system looks like one of those short-term RNG grind barriers DE has a habit of implementing that doesn't actually manage to prevent veterans from blazing through content, so much as annoying anyone who has to deal with it.

You will always need to grind, you wont bypass it. You can risk one mod and use it to fuel one that you currently need, but then you are maybe back at square one at the next lich since you may need that mod you previously used to fuel the other emptied mod at that time.

But in the end, we dont know what it all brings, so we cant really say if it is good or bad, or if it works or not.

[Teridax68]

4 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

You will always need to grind, you wont bypass it. You can risk one mod and use it to fuel one that you currently need, but then you are maybe back at square one at the next lich since you may need that mod you previously used to fuel the other emptied mod at that time.

But in the end, we dont know what it all brings, so we cant really say if it is good or bad, or if it works or not.

Or, you could just inevitably accumulate duplicates of every mod, and so always have more than enough in hand to defeat whichever Lich, as is the case for any resource-based grind wall that currently exists, including Razorback Ciphers and Fomorian Disruptors. Thus, the grind inevitably gets bypassed, like all the rest.

[Aldain]

13 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

Or, you could just inevitably accumulate duplicates of every mod

Assuming DE doesn't go the route of old Kubrow eggs and make it so you can only hold one of each mod until you use it up.

Which actually has a small chance of happening because DE is famous for making players go "Yes...Yes!...YES!....OH LORD NO" with some design decisions.

[SneakyErvin]

14 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

Or, you could just inevitably accumulate duplicates of every mod, and so always have more than enough in hand to defeat whichever Lich, as is the case for any resource-based grind wall that currently exists, including Razorback Ciphers and Fomorian Disruptors. Thus, the grind inevitably gets bypassed, like all the rest.

So? You have still done the same amount of grind in the end.

[DoomFruit]

TL;DR: consumable requiem mods suck, it's a stupid idea, throw it away.

21 hours ago, Oreades said:

W-w-why would you do this, you've doomed us all~

Say that when you've released an army of Missingno. (or, Azathoth help you all, a single Charizard 'M).

19 hours ago, EmberStar said:

I'm not fond of the idea.  It seems like the same thing they tried with the Echos of Umbra - "Oh, we have to make this content repeatable.  Let's do that by including a consumable resource that people can only get by grinding this content!"  Rather than, you know, making the content actually interesting.  I'd assume part of the reason that people don't play in the Kuva Fortress *now* is that it's a confusing maze, there are several tiles where the minimap is basically useless, and the enemies are just kind of basic Grineer but with more base armor and health.  Oh, and the security systems are annoying since they can't be disabled.  Especially when you're playing a mobile defense and one of the terminals decides to spawn in the sweep zone of the laser scanners.

I can agree with this. I utterly despise the kuva fortress tileset. The only time I'd ever go there is for a sortie and even then, I still drop it half the time.

It's the worst tileset in the entire game - even worse than Eris and Europa. At least those two are semi-navigable.

6 hours ago, Aesthier said:

TLDR: My vote is a massive thumbs down.

 

Personal reasoning: Another worthless excuse of lack of content to me. I never really liked Kuva missions to begin with. Scratch that they are probably the worst thin in the game to me even rating lower than vent kid racing. I never really enjoyed popping in and out of my warframe as an operator to begin with so doing Kuva farms has zero play appeal to me. Next Kuva is primarily used to re-roll Riven Mods which I also don't use. Why? Because playing a lottery sim isn't something I have any interest in. (The RNG of getting a specific drop off a boss is nothing compared to the RNG of finding and then re-rolling a riven for those oh so sweet stats.)

So no, DE's newfound strategy of throwing out ever compounding levels of RNG while trying to pass it off as "engaging content" doesn't appeal to me. I am looking for the growth of content not an ever growing layer cake of different flavored turds where you have a 1% of 1% of 1% of 1% of 1% chance of getting a turd that doesn't taste bad.

I do a crapton of kuva flood missions, I'm going to eventually be rolling in T5 relics... and I still hate this idea. If they weren't consumable, I'd have no problem. But the whole concept of grinding (void keys) so that you can grind (void traces) so that you can grind (kuva siphon) so that you can grind (requiem mods) so that you can grind (kuva weapons and/or getting this obnoxious bastard to finally piss off and leave you alone) so that you can grind some more (kuva weapon stats, optional if you don't give a crap about minmaxing) is something that I'm seriously fed up with

Edited October 30, 2019 by DoomFruit

[Skaleek]

Are the common/rare rewards from the t5 relics going to be worthwhile?

Wait, i feel like deep down i already know the answer.

7 minutes ago, DoomFruit said:

But the whole concept of grinding (void keys) so that you can grind (void traces) so that you can grind (kuva siphon) so that you can grind (requiem mods) so that you can grind (kuva weapons and/or getting this obnoxious bastard to finally piss off and leave you alone) so that you can grind some more (kuva weapon stats, optional if you don't give a crap about minmaxing) is something that I'm seriously fed up with

I feel you there brother. I think we all are. DE keeps stacking RNG gates on top of new gates to test us. As long as X% of the community is willing to put up with the time investment, it will continue to be so. The fact that the weapon stats can vary so greatly is a cause for concern.

Edited October 30, 2019 by Skaleek

[Renegade343]

10 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

I feel you there brother. I think we all are. DE keeps stacking RNG gates on top of new gates to test us. As long as X% of the community is willing to put up with the time investment, it will continue to be so. The fact that the weapon stats can vary so greatly is a cause for concern.

I thought there are two stats:

1. The base stats of the Kuva weapons (stuff like fire rate, reload, Punch Through etc.), which never changes.
2. The elemental bonus stat.

So you're not getting RNG on the base stats, but on the elemental bonus stat, both for element type and the +% elemental damage.