Reload Speed Mods in Exilus Slots

[redder876]

Or, more specifically, the fact that you CAN'T use reload speed mods in the exilus slot is baffling to me.

That just seems so arbitrary and silly - reload speed is a quality of life mod as much as recoil reduction is, but for some reason isn't capable of being put into the slot for quality of life mods. I can't be the only person who was excited by the weapon exilus slot to be able to patch up one of my biggest issues with a weapon without affecting it's DPS and then finding out that it's not an option.

I don't think it would overshadow other options either - ammo mutation mods, recoil reduction mods and weapon noise mods would all still be useful on different weapons if reload speed was an option, it just means weapons which don't have a big NEED for an exilus mod (Pyrana Prime with recoil reduction, weapons such as Akarius with low ammo counts with ammo mutation) would be able to make use of the new slot.
I'd really like to see reload speed mods added to the exilus slot.

[ixidron92]

That would affect DPS. The point of exilus mods is to offer utility without modifying damage output.

[Lost_Cartographer]

Reload speed and magazine size effect sustained DPS.

They're marginal upgrades compared to raw damage mods, granted, but that's their reasoning.  Believe me, I'd be over the moon if reload speed and mag size mods were exilus too.  Lotus knows I need just one more slot (and mag size mods to contribute at least +50%) on many of the semi-autos to make them Lato knock offs, but without that slot, they always fall short in some way.
 

For now, at the very least there's one exilus mod for primaries and secondaries that any gun could benefit from... holstering speed.  Though I think it can only be acquired exclusively from PvP (though it does work in PvE.)

Edited November 3, 2019 by Lost_Cartographer

[Katinka]

22 minutes ago, Lost_Cartographer said:

For now, at the very least there's one exilus mod for primaries and secondaries that any gun could benefit from... holstering speed.  Though I think it can only be acquired exclusively from PvP (though it does work in PvE.)

They drop from Conculysts too. https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Conculyst

[redder876]

As far as utility goes - if a weapon doesn't have huge issue (i.e. recoil, low ammo count) then there's practically no good utility mods available. Reduced zoom while aim gliding isn't exactly helping me aim when aim gliding is already not practical for aiming in most circumstances, and ammo drum is still a collector's item. So the slot might as well not exist on the majority of weapons, except for holster speed, but at that point if there's only one mod worth using why not just make that baseline?

[Diangelius]

I prefer -recoil on Pyrana or Projectile Flight speed on Bows / Non-hitscan guns

[Frenotx]

Reload isn't an exilus stat because of the Tigris series. 😛

[Akjir]

If you have the opportunity to use a reload mod it would became a must have. That's not what DE want to reach. I think it's a good decision.

[redder876]

Counter point to it affecting DPS: Power drift. It's the only exilus mod used on the majority of Warframes because it's a literal plus to DPS in a slot not intended for it.
If Warframes can have Power Drift which is directly tied to their DPS, why can't weapons have reload speed?

[SneakyErvin]

5 minutes ago, redder876 said:

Counter point to it affecting DPS: Power drift. It's the only exilus mod used on the majority of Warframes because it's a literal plus to DPS in a slot not intended for it.
If Warframes can have Power Drift which is directly tied to their DPS, why can't weapons have reload speed?

No one has ever claimed it wasnt intended for dps because it is an exilus. It isnt intended as a dps slot since it is a weapon exilus.

And power drift isnt the only direct dps increase for frames when it comes to exilus.

[Numerikuu]

8 minutes ago, redder876 said:

Counter point to it affecting DPS: Power drift. It's the only exilus mod used on the majority of Warframes because it's a literal plus to DPS in a slot not intended for it.
If Warframes can have Power Drift which is directly tied to their DPS, why can't weapons have reload speed?

 

1 hour ago, ixidron92 said:

That would affect DPS. The point of exilus mods is to offer utility without modifying damage output.

^

If they changed their mind however, they'd probably nerf reload speed on those mods. Power Drift is such a small % while reload speed is not.

[Vox_Preliator]

54 minutes ago, redder876 said:

Counter point to it affecting DPS: Power drift. It's the only exilus mod used on the majority of Warframes because it's a literal plus to DPS in a slot not intended for it.
If Warframes can have Power Drift which is directly tied to their DPS, why can't weapons have reload speed?

The Drift series of mods are specifically designed to be exceptions to the "only utility" limitation of the Exilus slot.  They have unique acquisition methods and are tied to Lua in some way, that's why they can fit there, not because of some arbitrary rules relating to their stats.  There is no discrepancy with the Drift mods.

I could see a second series of Drift mods for weapons happening at some point that could include a bit of reload speed, but that's for the future.

[lukinu_u]

Tactical Reload (and the matching mod for other cateogories) is aviable and work pretty well, and you can urther increase this effect with the Syth set (at least the 2 sentinel ones).
It's not exactly reload speed but perform the same (or even better) if you often switch between your weapons.

Edited November 3, 2019 by lukinu_u

[Lythael]

Yea no clip size mods or reload speed mods are available for exilus slots.

This is bogus.

[BDMblue]

I find the projectile speed to be the best. On any gun with fall off it’s a damage buff. It’s not a small buff it’s massive.

Edited November 14, 2019 by BDMblue

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

Nah

[Spharin]

reload speed increase = more dps

clip size increase = more dps

weapon exilus mods are qol, they don't affect dps

basically on the same level as firerate mods, but not as "effective" towards increasing dps

[BabaPambazuka]

As currently and arbitrarily crippled, Weapon Exilus slots are the most misleading/underwhelming "feature" of this whole update.

Miss me with these reaching rationalizations for the slot's borderline uselessness:  Any additional slot, by its mere existence, will inevitably allow motivated players to forma/tune a weapon further to ultimately do more damage over some sufficiently-extended period of time
Because
Damage
Is
What
Weapons
Do
and "utility" is never not a factor in how long it takes them to.  Especially if we're discussing it in disingenuous terms like "damage per second" yet calculating THAT across countless reloads up to the duration of entire missions.

Fire rate and punchthrough mods boost DPS within the scale of seconds, within a single encounter, within a single magazine, which makes their DPS effect immediately/substantially-relevant enough to exclude from "utility" mods.  Reload speed/mag capacity not so much:  They definitely help but don't have nearly the same degree of impact.  The same can even be said (on a comparable step down) of Exilus max-ammo-capacity mods, as they decrease the time spent finding ammunition (/deploying restores from gear/letting your dog dig it up, as opposed to reloading) rather than firing it, hence an "increase in 'sustained' DPS" for anyone perverse enough to claim it across such an extended period.

There's no black-and-white damage/utility boundary to hallucinate:  In an affinity-grinding shooter/looter, EVERY weapon mod will ultimately be employed for some kind of (increasingly trivial) impact on "sustained"/average DPS, however directly or indirectly.  The only intuitive distinction to make is between those which boost damage directly/immediately vs indirectly/eventually b/c if you're going to be absolute about it the latter category is all of them.

Orrrrrrrr... one could simply recognize that mag extensions, reload speed, and range extension are the definition of utility.  Which is explicitly what exilus slots claim to offer.

Edited November 15, 2019 by BabaPambazuka
clarification

[BabaPambazuka]

Exactly.  If total mod capacity hasn't changed, then neither has "balance".  Players are still spending the same total drain in whichever way feels best to them for their own playstyle, and the additional slot (if only it were useful for more than shotguns) just allows them to configure it in finer detail.

Like, how is this even a debate?  The adapter blueprint costs 3X the syndicate standing of some arguably game-changing augment mods, to say nothing of its nontrivial material requirements for construction, but God Forbid all those resources should yield a marginal increase in effectiveness as a side-effect of making a weapon predominantly more comfortable and dependable to use... as a weapon.

[CaptainMinty]

The argument that the two mods increase dps is a poor one at best. Simply because reduced recoil is an option for exilus. Reduced recoil means more shots are put on target faster. Lower recoil means that when firing rapidly, aiming will be easier to control. This is an increase in dps as headshots deal more damage and with less recoil, headshots are easier to obtain during higher fire-rates.

The problem I see what DE sees as more useful. Mods like reload speed and magazine capacity are far more likely to be used than recoil or zoom mods. Which falls into the pit of those mods being thrown into the Void for being nowhere near as useful as the other mods. This problem is a fundamental modding problem that exilus slots did not fix. Simply put, elemental mods and damage mods far outnumber utility mods in strength and usefulness. And because we have enough damage mods to fill our 8 slots with plenty more sitting around, not being used, utility mods fall into the Void for not being a damage mod. Why increase your magazine capacity by 30% when you could instead increase your damage by 120%?

This wouldn't be as much of a problem if they overhauled mods entirely. Some mods far outweigh the others when it comes to increasing DPS, and it absolutely shows. But if DE looks at those with intent to make mods more balanced, players would most likely view any changes leading to a reduction in power as negative. DE would rather avoid dealing with a huge outcry of complaints than find a solution to unbalanced mods. Case in point, they add an exilus mod slot for weapons, and we have complained about what is considered exilus and what isn't. Something I am very much guilty of as well.

I am no developer, I have no idea how to properly balance mods so that a majority of them would be useful. But I do believe part of the solution would cause a weakening of player power.