Toxic lich hunter bullies are spreading "badwill", ban them.

[mrpyro12345678]

1 minute ago, SordidDreams said:

You're going to get yelled at by toxic trolls in squad chat if you do that, because a lot of them don't even know liches can convert thralls. And honestly, if that happened to me? Like, if I was keeping the lich alive to convert thralls to increase the thrall cap of the mission and share murmur progress with the team, and my ignorant teammates rudely tried to bully me into hurrying up so they could get their to spawn? I'd keep mine alive just to spite them. I'm not even ashamed to admit that.

You are being yelled at because they die to the lich, and then the lich escapes with a levelup. YEA, this happens.
The argument that unleveling your liches is busted, is busted, is busted.

[CandyManCriminal]

it's okay, DE is working on a patch that will make stabbing the lich more worthwhile to prevent people from not stabbing their lich

[Toran]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Graavarg:

Well, both from a "put up or shut up"-perspective, and as a determination and/or test of allowable toxicity and what is acceptable behaviour, and not.

After all, it is DE's call, isn't it.

And I am up for it, since I truly and sincerely believe that DE always has intended that it is the player's own choice (if and when to attack his/her lich), and I also have trust in DE considering whether verbal abuse and bullying is right/wrong (though I have no idea if and when it is considered a bannable offense).

I should flag rethoric questions in the future. Peace, out. Enjoy your grief play, crusader.

[SordidDreams]

2 minutes ago, mrpyro12345678 said:

You are being yelled at because they die to the lich, and then the lich escapes with a levelup. YEA, this happens.
The argument that unleveling your liches is busted, is busted, is busted.

Found the ignorant toxic player. FYI I'm not getting yelled at at all, and what you said makes no sense.

Edited November 15, 2019 by SordidDreams

[mrpyro12345678]

6 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

You're going to get yelled at by toxic trolls in squad chat if you do that, because a lot of them don't even know liches can convert thralls. And honestly, if that happened to me? Like, if I was keeping the lich alive to convert thralls to increase the thrall cap of the mission and share murmur progress with the team, and my ignorant teammates rudely tried to bully me into hurrying up so they could get their to spawn? I'd keep mine alive just to spite them. I'm not even ashamed to admit that.

This. Yea, the Lich DOES levelup from other players apparently. Also, not-killing-your-lich may result in running out of Thralls, and then Lich Missions, which makes lich spawn impossible, and being unable to kill that lich, softlocking your lich farm.

[SordidDreams]

1 minute ago, mrpyro12345678 said:

not-killing-your-lich may result in running out of Thralls, and then Lich Missions, which makes lich spawn impossible, and being unable to kill that lich, softlocking your lich

That sounds like something that belongs in the bug reports forum, not here.

[mrpyro12345678]

Just now, SordidDreams said:

That sounds like something that belongs in the bug reports forum, not here.

YET it's not a bug, it is just a loophole, it isn't glitchy, it's just unintended to be here.

Also, multiple Lich spawns CAN occur, and kill everyone in the party, even more busting the DON'T STAB THE LICH system.

[SilentMobius]

I don't parazon my Lichs untill much later on in the process (Two Requiem mods revealed), the murmur boost is not worth the early stage increase to rank 5 IMHO.

But I only address liches solo so it bother no one. I can see how that might be annoying to a team.

Really DE need a way for players to "defeat" a lich (Get it out of the mission) without a vanquish attempt. That might also make the VO lines about dying again an again make some sense.

Edited November 15, 2019 by SilentMobius

[Graavarg]

4 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

My point is that those missions are to be done after collecting all mods, you do not do them to know what mods you need, because knowing them is pointless, you also do not use the missions to farm relics since even at 5% it's likely you won't find them in all the missions, so kuva floods end up being better. 

Yes the order that some players do things is upside down and i can't impose, in fact i don't, i just espect players to follow a natural flow of gameplay. Players also haven't unlocked kuva fortress, yet ask for taxi for a kuva fortress assault sortie, they do it, but they shouldn't

I ask ingame so i know if i stop or continue the mission, it's fustrating when someone isn't supposed to be there, but i just keep doing the misison, end it and try again, altough as you might expect, that player will have to exit the squad, i can't have players playing with the intention to drag the missions and making them last so long that extra missions are required to compenssate.

I don't insult or verbally attack, but i might reject helping with the lich if the user ping pongs back and forth with enaging and not engaging the lich, had my share of games where players give up midway, making everyone in the squad looking like clowns after wasting a few minutes attacking the lich, only to know the user gave up because he didn't have the mods.

Peace.

Maybe DE can give incentives or less of a punishment for all.

Thanks for clarifying. I completely agree. And there are hundreds if not thousands of missions where I have been frustrated by other players playstyle. But I have always considered it my own fault, if it has happened by joining a random/PUG mission. And creaming at another player simply because they play the game in their way is kind of dumb (or REALLY dumb, come to think of it).

And WF is full of such encounters, it is part (and occasionally even the charm) of joining a random squad. Insane Frost-"bubbling", Limbo before change, pre-pre-Ember, players who join syndicate mob def missions and hog the mission key for 30 minutes searching for all medallions and noobs that dare join missions where they mostly die (trid hunts comes to mind). All kinds of stuff. But of course there are alternatives, soloing or creating your own design-squad through chat or clan/friends.

Peace. Definitely.

[mrpyro12345678]

Just now, SilentMobius said:

I don't parazon my Lichs untill much later on in the process (Two Requiem mods revealed), the murmur boost is not worth the early stage increase to rank 5 IMHO.

But I only address liches solo so it bother no one. I can see how that would be annoying to a team.

Really DE need a way for players to "defeat" a lich (Get it out of the mission) without a vanquish attempt. That might also make the VO lines about dying again an again make some sense.

Actually this is a great idea, now that I think of it. Perhaps knock down a lich on one stage 5 times? Naww 3 times.

[3rdpig]

Being part of a community implies a certain level of responsibility to other members, fail in that and you can expect to get pressure from the community. Hey, just like real life. 

[Graavarg]

23 minutes ago, Toran said:

I should flag rethoric questions in the future. Peace, out. Enjoy your grief play, crusader.

Sorry if I misunderstood you, and thanks. Peace. Enjoying my way of farming liches, can't say I enjoy this crusader part.

But I still think the discussion is necessary, and I am a bit surprised at all the constructive suggestions. Tenno spirit shining through after all, maybe.

Live and let live (even liches, occasionally).

Edited November 15, 2019 by Graavarg

[Dharma-Beerlite]

48 minutes ago, (PS4)Cargan2016 said:

people like you are part of the problem.  a lower MR player isnt going to want to attempt to kill lich and have it level up if they dont have any mods for it or the right mods yet.

ShortCat explained well on your debate

2 hours ago, ShortCat said:

If I may intervene:

• Lichs are not really ment for new/-ish players and after an initially badly designed Lich creation was hotfixed, there is a clear option to opt out. If you cannot handle Sortie 3 lvl range (how is it even possible at this point), I would suggest to come to this content at a later stage.
• If you play in a group, especially those "toxic" players will most likely be able to handle those Lichs and help undergeared/unexperienced player to lower its HP for a Mercy finisher. Kinda like a real co-op concept.
• Lich hunt mission lvl is decided by the host, so you can still join a session with lvl100 enemies, even if your Lich is lvl1. It also works the other way around, and you are not guaranteed to meet lvl100 enemies in every one of your missions with a lvl5 Lich hunting you (except you host it). Thus, denying Lich kils due to higher lvled enemies argument is completely busted, if you are playing public games.
• There is a benefit to lvl your Lich: he will conquer new nodes and present new missions with potentially better Thrall spawns, 10 Murmurs on a failed attempt yealds on avarage as much as 2 Exterminate missions, or slightly less than a Survival. In other words, those 10 Murmurs are worth 1-2 missions. Then, there is always the chance to guess the right requiem and make even bigger leap forward. Last but not least, lvl 5 Lich does not lose agro on a stab and will continue comming after you. There is clear incentive and benefit to stab your Lich. I have no idea who spreads this misinformation; probably the samy people who complain about 2-4 hours of grind for 1 Lich, while I avarage at 1-1.5 hours.
  (Best case, you let your Lich alive for some time, as he may spawn more Thralls, and then kill him)

 

 

[ShortCat]

5 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

I'd argue getting help from other players is the whole point of a co-op game. If everyone were able to handle the content they play, there would be no point to playing in a group. That seems contradictory to your previous point. So should people play this content in pub or not? You can't have it both ways.

That's an "if" case: If you fear higher difficulty, come back later; if you do it, your teammates will help you. Nothing contradictory here.

8 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

That's only a benefit if you plan to farm your lich for hours on end and running out of missions to do is a realistic possibility for you.

That's not how Lich mission generation/consumption works. And you completely ignore the "luck factor" as well as other points.
How many Lich hunts did you complete, if I may ask.

10 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

The more players keep their liches unleveled, the greater the chance that your pub lich mission won't be max level. Thus, the idea that the argument of keeping liches unleveled is busted, is busted.

An argument build on a wrong premise remains wrong and does not even guarantee desired effect. Furthermore, why are people even freaked out by lvl 90 enemies in the first place?

[(PSN)Cargan2016]

Just now, Dharma-Beerlite said:

ShortCat explained well on your debate

 

im not talking like mr 3 or 5 but MR 10or so ones that have ability to be in endgame content on own.  THey may not have as easy a time as those in high teen or into 20s MR but they can get things done.  My Wife is MR 8 and about to do War within  and has done majority of the story missions on her own with out me tagging along and basically carrying her for them and I am MR27 myself.

[Dharma-Beerlite]

5 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

That's an "if" case: If you fear higher difficulty, come back later; if you do it, your teammates will help you. Nothing contradictory here.

That's not how Lich mission generation/consumption works. And you completely ignore the "luck factor" as well as other points.
How many Lich hunts did you complete, if I may ask.

An argument build on a wrong premise remains wrong and does not even guarantee desired effect. Furthermore, why are people even freaked out by lvl 90 enemies in the first place?

I agreed with ShortCat. I have killed 21 liches so far. Some of them was done below lvl 4 and 3 with random guessing the mods. The stabbing of lich gain progress much faster then farming 2 or all mods revealed. 

If players not ready for this high lvl content or wish to keep their lich low lvl should stick to solo or like minded party with all liches below lvl 2. And not joining random pub match with some random host having max lvl lich spawning lvl 90+. So Unable to cope lvl 5 lich spawn mission and tag on pub that potential spawn lvl 5 spawns not consider leeching? or being selfish when blocking or delaying others progress?

[0_The_F00l]

My personal problem is not about the player choosing to fight the lich or not. 

My problem is that the player doesn't say anything, I don't mind if you are ignoring the lich cause you don't have the mods / don't want it to level / you just don't feel like. 

Please have some basic decency and say what you are gonna do, spending half the mission trying to down the lich while the player doesn't say or do S#&$ really grates me. 

 

Verbal abuse is still not warranted either way, especially in pub. 

With the same logic though, the OP should also not be running pub if he has specific expectations. 

I feel both parties are wrong in their approach. 

[Vyra]

When i want my Lich to spawn i go with y friends or solo.
When i want of arm murmurs.. i do the same

If i go public i expect the things you posted here, and i do not care then anyway... since i can understand both sides...

One does not want to get killed while they don't even have a relic yet but want to farm murmrurs...
The other party want just to kill the Lich and want to profit from other helping them...

I think the only fair solution to this is following:

The Lich wait for X:YZ time, if the player avoid the Lich for to long, he/she will go away and take double tax from the said player...
(like 2 minutes?! should be enough to reach him...)

Lich: "Don't run, don't ruin my Fun Adversary... or im going to increase the tax"

 

[Xaero]

2 hours ago, VanFanel1980mx said:

I swear I had my Lich and another one in the same mission at least one time, I wasn't killing mine and just staggering it for the thrall spawns, people were calling me out and suddenly a different one began taunting the player.

Did it happen after host migration? This bug occurs sometimes.

[Raqiya]

The way I see it, If you want to farm thralls or don't want to kill a Lich why even go public in the first place? You don't need a public team to complete the low level Lich missions or to farm thralls, but you might need help killing a Lich thus the need for public. By going public and not killing the Lich you're simply denying others. Anyway they were created for the purpose to be killed not farmed, the extra Thrall's are just a bonus.

[SordidDreams]

49 minutes ago, mrpyro12345678 said:

YET it's not a bug, it is just a loophole, it isn't glitchy, it's just unintended to be here

Out of curiosity, what's your definition of a bug, then? 

18 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

That's an "if" case: If you fear higher difficulty, come back later; if you do it, your teammates will help you. Nothing contradictory here.

Right, so people not stabbing their liches are doing it right and there's no reason to bully them.

19 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

That's not how Lich mission generation/consumption works. And you completely ignore the "luck factor" as well as other points.
How many Lich hunts did you complete, if I may ask.

I ignore points that are irrelevant, and I've completed on lich hunt, enough to learn how the system works and realize that I don't want to engage with it in its current form. It's mind-boggling to me that people continue to defend it. Stockholm Symdrome abounds in the lich hunter community.

19 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

An argument build on a wrong premise remains wrong and does not even guarantee desired effect. Furthermore, why are people even freaked out by lvl 90 enemies in the first place?

Because not everyone is geared enough to deal with them.

[ShortCat]

3 minutes ago, Dharma-Beerlite said:

The stabbing of lich gain progress much faster then farming 2 or all mods revealed. 

Yea, so far, my shortest run was ~15 minutes and 4 missions. Lich spawned in 2nd mission - guessed 1st requiem right. Afterwards I switched 2nd and 3rd requiems around, met him again in my 4th mission and killed him. Usually I am done even before I can reveil all 3 requiems with Murmurs. RNG is strong in our favor here.

[Zeclem]

3 hours ago, Graavarg said:

First of all there hasn't even have to be a reason, as it is and should be the player's own choice. I hope that is self-evident to you?

there is two choices. stifle your squadmates progress and yours, or dont. its not that complex.

3 hours ago, Graavarg said:

As for selfishness, what do you call bullies carping on other players in order to get them to do something the bully wants but the player (obviously) would not like to do? 

i call whataboutism.

3 hours ago, Graavarg said:

And there actually are good reasons not to attack your lich (beyond the known requiems, forcing the kill or be killed). The most self-evident being that not killing/subduing it makes it one level higher, which can have quite an impact on lower MRs.

if you are a low mr, why are you doing lich missions in the first place? even if you fully know the requiems you still have to "brute force" it, making it max level most of the time anyway.

[SilentMobius]

6 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

Yea, so far, my shortest run was ~15 minutes and 4 missions. Lich spawned in 2nd mission - guessed 1st requiem right. Afterwards I switched 2nd and 3rd requiems around, met him again in my 4th mission and killed him. Usually I am done even before I can reveil all 3 requiems with Murmurs. RNG is strong in our favor here.

Well no it isn't at all, it's just much more variable. Hunting murmurs is more reliable, gambling with the parazon can be longer and can be shorter. And if lv100 enemies slow you down at all then parazon gambling can really lengthen total times (Which is a big deal solo).

Depending on the mission type Sorte 3 level enemied can really require a specific warframe, which may not be the one that is useful to take down your lich.

Also, a steady diet of lv 60 enemies is much better for ranking up the previous Kuva weapon (assuming you don't team leach all your weapon ranking) I'm on my 12th lich and IMHO waiting until the second murmur unlocks before I try use the parazon on the lich has been optimal.

 

[BDMblue]

It’s toxic to join a game and purposefully hinder other players progress is it not? I mean when your being toxic in a game people tend to be toxic back. \0/

they needed to gate the lich behind a kill a level 120 kela de thaym solo quest. If you can’t do that you can’t spawn a lich. Would keep week players from hindering others progress.