DE supposedly only listening to "specific" feedback regarding Liches

[MirageKnight]

3 hours ago, Mikhael222 said:

In all fairness, they have their hands busy with Empyrean - a far superior game mode.

They were tinkering with the Kingpin system long before it was shown off on a devstream back in 2017 (I think)...and definitely before Railjack was a thing that was known to us. It was only when Empyrean was revealed / announced that it seemed like they were going to fold Kingpin (renamed mind you) into Empyrean...and then scrapped that idea at the proverbial last minute.

3 hours ago, Mikhael222 said:

It's more likely they'll worry about kuva liches after they get that to us. 

I hope so, but we'll wait and see about that. I'm not holding my breathe though because it might be a long time, what with the New War, Duviri Paradox, and Lotus-knows what else coming up.

3 hours ago, Mikhael222 said:

We've been waiting for Railjack longer than liches anyway.

Although I wasn't one of them, there have been a number of people asking for and about Kingpin since Steve first showcased it. I don't think your "we" statement includes them.

Edited December 11, 2019 by MirageKnight

[ciTiger]

They are hoping the community just forgets about it...

It's just another thing in a long list of things... I pity the new players for the horrible experience they get, and if they aren't experienced gamers... Poor souls.

Edited December 11, 2019 by ciTiger

[Steel_Rook]

21 hours ago, Serafim_94 said:

But you're right, it's not Youtuber's fault. It's fault of entire playerbase, that keeps asking for absolutely retarded things. People complain about too much grind, while at the same time complaining that they grind entire new content in a week and have nothing to do anymore.

That is a MASSIVE mischaracterisation of those complaints, though. What the game needs is more stuff to DO, not more sutff to EARN. The content DE have been releasing of late has been almost all rewards, almost no actual gameplay and Kuva Liches are the epitome of this. Same systems, same enemies, same locations, but more loot at the tail end. This could have been a proper Nemesis system with a character whose name we'll remember, and instead it was a system of killing the Wolf of Saturn Six with a different name over and over again. Well no S#&$ people rushed through the system and got bored half-way through - because it's BORING.

It's the whole "intrinsic vs. extrinsic motivation" conversation all over again. DE built a game that's entirely based on boring, unfulfilling grind where players ring the bell of the latest Skinner box hoping for a treat without actually getting any real enjoyment out of it beyond satiating compulsion. Now they seem to have altogether given up on creating content with which to inspire and engage, and just resolved to design more "sustainable" Skinner boxes. Well, when you suck all the fun out of it and leave the reward as quite literally the ONLY reason to play, then OF COURSE players are going to rush through, get the reward and then sit around asking for something new to do. Because ain't nobody doing this S#&$ again without being paid for it.

What happened to playing video games for fun, I often wonder. I distinctly remember playing the likes of Half-Life, Prince of Persia, Oni, etc. without NEEDING to be rewarded for doing so. I get it, Warframe pretends to be an RPG with a progression system, fine, but can there not be ANYTHING beyond progression that's worth playing the game for? Because that, in a nutshell, is what people are complaining about. "I earned the new rewards and the game's still not fun. Now what?" Even when DE do create legitimately fun gameplay elements - which is what Railjack looks to be - they have to bog them down with A MASSIVE GRIND to the point where the gameplay loop itself fades in the background and we're right back to doing repetitive tasks waiting for rewards... Except under their current design, the rewards are resources for another grind, which rewards us with resources for another grind, all the way down.

Complaints of "too much grind" are borne out of a massive imbalance between grind and actual engaging content. You can't keep people engaged forever with pure Skinner boxes. Sooner or later, everyone sees through it.

[nslay]

Reduce the grind with a clever/randomized application of quasi random sequences. These are not the pseudo random numbers we have now, even though they behave like a best-case scenario of a uniform random sequence.

[MirageKnight]

23 hours ago, Serafim_94 said:

But you're right, it's not Youtuber's fault. It's fault of entire playerbase, that keeps asking for absolutely retarded things.

No, It's completely on DE for caving into demands from a extremely vocal, whiny, entitled subset of the community. They can easily stand their ground and say "Sorry folks, it's taking a bit more time to finish this than expected. We'll let you know when we feel this is ready to release." 

That being said, blaming the entire player-base is an unfair and unrealistic generalization. Yes we all like and desire new content, but some of us are actually willing to wait for as long as need be to get content that's well polished and as bug-free as possible. Count me as part of that crowd.

 

Edited December 11, 2019 by MirageKnight

[Aldain]

2 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

Yes we all like and desire new content, but some of us are actually willing to wait for as long as need be to get content that's well polished and as bug-free as possible. Count me as part of that crowd.

And me.

[MirageKnight]

1 hour ago, Steel_Rook said:

That is a MASSIVE mischaracterisation of those complaints, though. What the game needs is more stuff to DO, not more sutff to EARN.

Well said. Stuff that's earned can be burned through with ridiculous ease, and that's all the Lich system ultimately provides. 

At least when Empyrean releases, that'll potentially give us something long term to do.

[nerfinator6]

Plot twist: steve is the lich and is trying to ruin our lives

[Unitanubis]

I understand no1 liking the roulette of death but for me the biggest issue is obtaining the mods. All they need to do is make them hard to get but guarenteed or common drops, not difficult because of rng. They actively make it such a S#&$ty experience and then they offer you a mod pack. DE used to be against this kind of monetization. 

[Aldain]

3 hours ago, nerfinator6 said:

Plot twist: steve is the lich and is trying to ruin our lives

Plot twist: I am actually Steve's Lich, and instead of taxing resources I just make posts about the auto-suicide being dumb until they use my kill phrase "No more Auto-death".

...They still haven't even tried a combination yet.

[waterboytkd]

I was watching the dev stream when this came up, and remember thinking Steve's response seemed tone deaf. Even the other dev, Scott, I think, when he said "I'm hip deep in S#&$ on over here but let me look at this thing," seemed a bit out of touch. 

But, the more I've thought on it, the more I get it. The Lich breaking our back vs. just discorporating away when we have the wrong parazon combination? It's just an aesthetic. And I don't mean that to be dismissive. Aesthetics do matter. But the actual Lich system is functional. It works. Is everything optimal? No. But that doesn't change the fact that it currently works.

Which, if they have some big new update with a new game mode and everything in it (which looks to be the case for Railjack), and they want to get it in our hands before the holidays, I could absolutely imagine that it's "all hands on deck" for the new project. Something that is ultimately just an aesthetic change for Liches is going to take a back seat to that. 

Hopefully Scott wasn't blowing hot air when he said that, after Empyrean is out, they can take a look at changing Lich stuff. But in terms of priority, I can see how it's not on their radar.

Which brings me to the community team. Some people think it's a failure on their part that the question of getting killed by the Liches was a surprise to Steve. On one hand, I agree. On the other, again, it's a question of priorities. If you know that this change to Liches is ultimately an aesthetic one, and the dev team is currently "hip deep in S#&$" when it comes to Empyrean, are you really going to divert their attention? 

I imagine that, if it's "all hands on deck" for the dev team with Empyrean, then, for the Community Team, it's more of a "steady as she goes," to stick with the nautical analogies. Keep the forums functioning, maybe take notes on actionable feedback to be discussed at a later date. Because the dev team can't be distracted from the Empyrean launch. 

That's my suspicion, at least.

[(NSW)ToadBlue]

34 minutes ago, waterboytkd said:

I was watching the dev stream when this came up, and remember thinking Steve's response seemed tone deaf. Even the other dev, Scott, I think, when he said "I'm hip deep in S#&$ on over here but let me look at this thing," seemed a bit out of touch. 

But, the more I've thought on it, the more I get it. The Lich breaking our back vs. just discorporating away when we have the wrong parazon combination? It's just an aesthetic. And I don't mean that to be dismissive. Aesthetics do matter. But the actual Lich system is functional. It works. Is everything optimal? No. But that doesn't change the fact that it currently works.

Which, if they have some big new update with a new game mode and everything in it (which looks to be the case for Railjack), and they want to get it in our hands before the holidays, I could absolutely imagine that it's "all hands on deck" for the new project. Something that is ultimately just an aesthetic change for Liches is going to take a back seat to that. 

Hopefully Scott wasn't blowing hot air when he said that, after Empyrean is out, they can take a look at changing Lich stuff. But in terms of priority, I can see how it's not on their radar.

Which brings me to the community team. Some people think it's a failure on their part that the question of getting killed by the Liches was a surprise to Steve. On one hand, I agree. On the other, again, it's a question of priorities. If you know that this change to Liches is ultimately an aesthetic one, and the dev team is currently "hip deep in S#&$" when it comes to Empyrean, are you really going to divert their attention? 

I imagine that, if it's "all hands on deck" for the dev team with Empyrean, then, for the Community Team, it's more of a "steady as she goes," to stick with the nautical analogies. Keep the forums functioning, maybe take notes on actionable feedback to be discussed at a later date. Because the dev team can't be distracted from the Empyrean launch. 

That's my suspicion, at least.

They should have focused on Old Blood first and Empyrean second. "They're too busy working on a bunch of other projects that they've swamped themselves with because they can't organize and prioritize whatsoever" is not an acceptable excuse.

[DrakeWurrum]

48 minutes ago, waterboytkd said:

I was watching the dev stream when this came up, and remember thinking Steve's response seemed tone deaf. Even the other dev, Scott, I think, when he said "I'm hip deep in S#&$ on over here but let me look at this thing," seemed a bit out of touch. 

But, the more I've thought on it, the more I get it. The Lich breaking our back vs. just discorporating away when we have the wrong parazon combination? It's just an aesthetic. And I don't mean that to be dismissive. Aesthetics do matter. But the actual Lich system is functional. It works. Is everything optimal? No. But that doesn't change the fact that it currently works.

Which, if they have some big new update with a new game mode and everything in it (which looks to be the case for Railjack), and they want to get it in our hands before the holidays, I could absolutely imagine that it's "all hands on deck" for the new project. Something that is ultimately just an aesthetic change for Liches is going to take a back seat to that. 

Hopefully Scott wasn't blowing hot air when he said that, after Empyrean is out, they can take a look at changing Lich stuff. But in terms of priority, I can see how it's not on their radar.

Which brings me to the community team. Some people think it's a failure on their part that the question of getting killed by the Liches was a surprise to Steve. On one hand, I agree. On the other, again, it's a question of priorities. If you know that this change to Liches is ultimately an aesthetic one, and the dev team is currently "hip deep in S#&$" when it comes to Empyrean, are you really going to divert their attention? 

I imagine that, if it's "all hands on deck" for the dev team with Empyrean, then, for the Community Team, it's more of a "steady as she goes," to stick with the nautical analogies. Keep the forums functioning, maybe take notes on actionable feedback to be discussed at a later date. Because the dev team can't be distracted from the Empyrean launch. 

That's my suspicion, at least.

That's pretty much the given, yes, but that doesn't change the fact that they don't seem to be receiving our feedback effectively. It still does seem tone deaf on Rebecca's part, because she made it sound like we want our lich to be undead, when that's not our problem with it at all. I can understand Steve and Scott being so busy as to not even be thinking about Old Blood, to some extent.

And as the guy above me said, it's no excuse. Why are they in crunch time now? Why weren't they working this hard sooner in the year? Why wasn't Old Blood ready to ship sooner in the year, if it's such a big part of Empyrean and the New War?
It seems to me that they put off certain updates longer than they should have, and now they have to push the final stretch. I don't mean to be rude or entitled, because... I do respect the work they put into this game, and I don't want them destroying their health over it.

But that's also part of it. You can tell they're exhausted in that devstream. You can tell they're really working hard. I don't want to see DE be that kind of studio. It's not good for their health OR for the quality of the game.

Edited December 11, 2019 by DrakeWurrum

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

On 2019-12-08 at 4:02 PM, Sunder said:

This is an exact transcript of the discussion on Devsteam #134

  Reveal hidden contents

 

- - -

• Reb: Alright! So for Liches we have a lot of people that have the old blood update that think the flavor of "them killing you" vs "you killing them" is the antithesis of what liches are. So we'll start about, --we'll start the conversation on the framing of liches. So you get your parazon, you have your requiems, you DOWN your lich, you go in for the stab, and the requiem is WRONG then YOU die, but the lich also dies and  goes away and gets stronger. Do we have any plans to change your consequence in that phase.
• Steve: Uhh........*head tilts*....uhh..nnn-...we don't have any plans for that. No. Nope.
• Reb: Alright so right now--
• Sheldon: Surprise question!
• Steve: *Laughs* Surprise question!
• Scott: I'm hip deep in "poo" but lemme talk about this other thing over here and..
• Reb: Well it's live!  So players are talking about-
• Scott: I understand it's live but I...at the moment-
• Steve: I think that...I think that the feedback I saw was uhh....whyyy...uhh... "why isn't it 76 days to kill a Lich?"
• Reb: Yes. That was the TennoCon thing that we-
• Steve: And why, uh, --which is a part of the TennoCon UI, and why uhh..."why can the Lich beat me up so badly?"
• Reb: Yes.
• Steve: And of course....we didn't think that uh...you'd want to wait 76 days to get a Lich Weapon, --Kuva Lich weapon. And so we shortened that loop dramatically...uhh, and it did not work out we thought to have it going on and dragging on and sooo uhh, we tightened that loop! And in terms of why does the Lich Punch you out when you fail? Uhh...one of the things we discovered when we did the finishers for the Liches was it was very interesting or unique for the game that there be someone that would kick your butt for a change,
• Reb: Yeah.
• Steve: 'cause you kill everyone!
• Reb: Yes.
• Steve: and so that's why we did that inversion. Sooo there you go. 
• Scott: That's....not to say that there isn't changes to the system coming. 
• Reb: No. 
• Steve: Yup. 
• Scott: It's just that right now that....is not our focus, obviously, with the giant pile of stuff we just showed? That, --that's our current focus. 
• Reb: Yes
• Scott: Uhm, and probably when we regroup in the new year, it'll be addressing those things...so...
• Reb: And I think one thing that's been pretty popular around the office is just--
• Steve: And more factions so.
• Reb: Yeah, more factions..
• Geoff: I'm just gonna say the, -we're, the system is gonna always, -it's gonna be looked at for a while because of the faction...expansion as well so....
• Reb: Yeah, I mean if we make the corpus liches? Maybe we'll make them last 79 days and then -laughing- maybe then everyone can have their cake and eat it too!

- - -

What this tells me is that not only do they have their plates full with Empyrean, New War, Duviri and balances, new content, and the like coming out eventually, but that DE isn't seeing the issue we have with the Lich System. That generally the feedback Steve only sees is in regards to that the Lich system is too quick and we want it to last 76 days. Aside from that Steve believes we don't like the fact that the Lich can "beat us up so badly". He then goes off on a tangent regarding peoples want for Kuva weapons and the rewards of this system rather than the experience of it all. 

Problems:

1. DE staff is failing to see that WE DON'T MIND ENEMIES THAT CAN BEAT US. We like a challenge.
2. They fail to see that we don't like being beaten UNFAIRLY. We trudge through various forms of RNG without so much as a lore explanation, only to encounter more RNG that is essentially a suicide-roulette where if you guess wrong? There's NOTHING you can do about it. Despite experience, skill, preparation, etc.
3. It shows that DE is releasing content with the knowledge they're going to have to work on this some more after they release other stuff and "when they have the time". 

Solutions:

1. Players have been asking for more challenge. But we want fair challenges. This ongoing trend that DE has acknowledged themselves along with our constant feedback leaves no excuse for this. 
2. DE needs to remove some aspects of RNG from the Lich system. Most requested it seems is the suicide-roulette that is Requiem Mod guessing. Just give us a fighting chance. Give us a way to encounter Liche's without having to go to our doom to progress. 
3. I don't claim to know the inner workings of the people behind stocks and shares and making the final decision for the direction of the game, but the community has been *quite* vocal about their displeasure with the Lich system. Leaving it to work on other things only lets it stew and fester within the community. Many people keep saying, "We have no problem waiting longer if it means a better finished product". In addition DE is trying to meet a New  Years deadline but honestly, most of the community seems fine with letting them work on things and not have to crunch like crazy to get it out. 

Personal Thoughts:

DE needs to properly acknowledge the community displeasure and anger towards the Lich system. We need that transparency that they've been known for in the past. All we've gotten is blatant statements saying, "Nope. No changes planned. It's staying" despite all our feedback and complaints. This leaves a bad taste in the mouths of the community being simply dismissed as a whole like that. I understand they wanna add to, and work on the Lich system some more as time progresses. That the team worked hard on it and it's been an idea in the works for quite some time. But if DE refuses to change even the base system for it then the complaining and feedback will never stop. 

My personal suggestion?

Ignore the Lich system entirely. Keep providing feedback. And warn new players not to touch it in its current state. 

The idea is to entertain ups for 1 to 3 months.

[Sunder]

7 minutes ago, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

The idea is to entertain ups for 1 to 3 months.

If this update was intended to entertain us for 1-3 months then I don't know what to say cause it failed me within the 1st week. 

Sure I like the new melee changes but I'd still be doing the same thing over and over even if they didn't release that portion. Log in, do sortie, maybe a few Nightwave challenges, log out. Sometimes I'll hang around and chat. Other than that I don't got much else to do. I was on the Hype train for Liches and Empyrean and such, but after seeing how this turned out? I got off the train at the next station. I'll just watch where it goes now. Decide afterwards if Empyrean is worth any sort of excitement. 

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

2 minutes ago, Sunder said:

If this update was intended to entertain us for 1-3 months then I don't know what to say cause it failed me within the 1st week. 

Sure I like the new melee changes but I'd still be doing the same thing over and over even if they didn't release that portion. Log in, do sortie, maybe a few Nightwave challenges, log out. Sometimes I'll hang around and chat. Other than that I don't got much else to do. I was on the Hype train for Liches and Empyrean and such, but after seeing how this turned out? I got off the train at the next station. I'll just watch where it goes now. Decide afterwards if Empyrean is worth any sort of excitement. 

People are still going to buy Ivara Prime and it will help fund the next shell of an open world, Plains of Diviri.

[MirageKnight]

21 minutes ago, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

it will help fund the next shell of an open world, Plains of Diviri.

That kind of begs the question...where is located? Somewhere in the Void and only accessible via Railjack?

[Aldain]

14 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

That kind of begs the question...where is located? Somewhere in the Void and only accessible via Railjack?

If that trailer was any indicator I could see it being the case.

[CuChulainnWD]

17 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

That kind of begs the question...where is located? Somewhere in the Void and only accessible via Railjack?

 

2 minutes ago, Aldain said:

If that trailer was any indicator I could see it being the case.

Both points bring up the point of, "Hurry up and wait". The question being, will it be worth the wait?

[Awazx]

Le 08/12/2019 à 18:02, Sunder a dit :

 My personal suggestion?

Ignore the Lich system entirely. 

Exactly what I have done since it was released.

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

36 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

That kind of begs the question...where is located? Somewhere in the Void and only accessible via Railjack?

The problem with the last 2 open worlds is that the lands marks weren’t used enough. Orb Vallis had about 20% of it’s landmarks used for something.

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

16 minutes ago, Awazx said:

Exactly what I have done since it was released.

Are some companies in compliance with some business regulations in multiple countries it functions in?

[0_The_F00l]

I agree with most of what has been said , i truly was disappointed (still am) on how that question was answered by Steve.

He might not have gotten the feedback cause he was "Neck deep in poo" but quoting a random post that is not even relevant? took away that reason too.

The very large difference between what vs promised and what was delivered is also a gripe i have,

[Steel_Rook]

12 hours ago, (NSW)ToadBlue said:

They should have focused on Old Blood first and Empyrean second. "They're too busy working on a bunch of other projects that they've swamped themselves with because they can't organize and prioritize whatsoever" is not an acceptable excuse.

Ideally, yes, but the reality is that was never going to happen. The Kuva Lich system wasn't anywhere remotely finished when DE released it. As I've said in the past - it's whatever bits they had finished at the time slapped together into something that'll compile. It's pretty clear that DE threw that out as a smokescreen trying to cover the MASSIVE DELAYS they were suffering, hoping it would placate the masses for a bit and give them time to release Empyrean at the 11th hour. In practice, I'd argue the reverse. I'd argue DE should NOT have released the Kuva Lich system at all. Make The Old Blood release just Grendel, follow up with the release of the Dry Dock, then go from there. Hold the Kuva Lich system for AFTER Empyrean, both when you hopefully have something substantial to release and when you have space ships you can give them as property.

DE did this to themselves. I mean, look at the fake TennoCon trailer. It's not just space ships, it's also Liches a multi-team co-op missions and the ability to recruit AI crews, etc. What they advertised wasn't just a Warframe expansion. It was a whole new budget title video game. It was 3/4 of the way to Freelancer. OF COURSE they weren't going to be able to deliver that in a year or so. Rather than develop individual modules and release those in a mostly-complete state, however, they seem to have tried to work on ALL of the modules and fallen behind badly on all of them. It's why we have scraps of a Kuva Lich system, chunks of a space ship game still being hastily developed and a crew management system which had to be pushed off to next year.

As I've said before - crunch is a failure of management. A studio finds itself in DE's current situation not because the ground-floor developers aren't working hard, but because management dropped the ball. I don't know if this is the result of wasted resources, promising unreasonable release dates or lack of focus or what have you, but it's pretty clear that Empyrean was badly mismanaged to almost Anthem/Andromeda levels. Now developers are having to crunch at the expense of their personal lives, leading to frayed nerves and short tempers. DE need to learn to stop announcing deadlines they can't meet and focus on JUST the content they can deliver. Pie-in-the-sky ideas are neat, but if you release them broken and lacking 90% of their promised content, you fundamentally undermine their overall viability.

 

17 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

Well said. Stuff that's earned can be burned through with ridiculous ease, and that's all the Lich system ultimately provides. At least when Empyrean releases, that'll potentially give us something long term to do.

Yup. There's really no good middle ground when it comes to grind. Either it's so quick that people burn through it in a few days to a few weeks then go back to asking for more, or it's so slow that people give up on it entirely and ask for other things. Unless the underlying game is in some way inherently fun, then throwing more grind into it is never going to last. You can get people to stick around via Skinner box conditioning, but only up to a point. I mean, think about it, folks - why are you here? Did you start playing Warframe because you could earn a Bopp Bipp Kuva Seer? Did you start playing because repeating the same mission 15 times could eventually yield a new weapon? Or did you start because "ZOMG Space Ninja! Cool!" I can't speak for everybody, but I stuck around because I enjoy the core combat loop, so I'm willing to repeat it a few more times to play along with the progression system, but said progression system is only secondary to my interest.

Game releases which eschew gameplay, theme and narrative while over-focusing on monetisation and progression are signs of a bubble. They're signs of an environment where developers have lost perspective of what the intrinsic values of their product even are and instead buying into the "get rich quick" speculation. It's what happened to MMOs in the 2010 when they were being sold on "has standard MMO mechanics" rather than theme or unique gameplay. This sort of approach to game development is extremely volatile, because all it takes is one "reality-inducing event" to cause cascade failure.

DE seem to believe that their game is beyond saving and that players will never play it just because it's fun. They have, consequently, doubled-down on Pavlovian conditioning with more FOMO, more appointment mechanics, more manufactured scarcity, more fractal RNG, more consumables, more upkeep, more rentals, all in the hope of squeezing bored players into playing a game they're bored by compulsion. To me, that approach is doomed to fail, because it's drawing exactly the wrong conclusion. If people won't play content unless the game pays them for it, the solution isn't to pay them more. It's to look at content and consider WHY people are asking for compensation for running it. Is that particular content in some way intrinsically flawed - boring, broken, underdeveloped, etc.? Or is the progression system perhaps heavily biased against other content to the point that people feel cheated for running anything else?

Passing grind off as content is applying bandaids to gunshot wounds. It might get people playing in the short run, but it burns bridges in the long run.

 

13 hours ago, waterboytkd said:

But, the more I've thought on it, the more I get it. The Lich breaking our back vs. just discorporating away when we have the wrong parazon combination? It's just an aesthetic. And I don't mean that to be dismissive. Aesthetics do matter. But the actual Lich system is functional. It works. Is everything optimal? No. But that doesn't change the fact that it currently works.

But that's the problem, though. If our only criterion for the quality of a game system is that it functions on a basic level, then I'd argue that this is a VERY low bar. It also smacks of the "could be worse" fallacy, to be perfectly honest. DE is a large enough studio that we should expect more from them than merely software which doesn't crash and wipe our progress. Yes, the Kuva Lich system works in the most basic of senses, but that's nowhere remotely enough.

What the hell have they been doing for the past year if NOT getting Railjack and Liches ready? Oh, sure - they had that big list of "Look at all the things we've done, you should be greatful!" deflection but this is a major studio with a massive staff. They've repeatedly promised that they can multitask projects and that big pie-in-the-sky ambitions like Free Roam and Railjack aren't going to slow down the release of smaller-scale content, even though they demonstrably do. If DE can't manage to develop all of these things simultaneously - and fair enough on that - then they have no business promising them and consistently failing to do so.

If we're going to hold DE's development team to the lofty ambition of releasing basically functioning content, can we also hold DE's management to the lofty ambition of actually doing their jobs for a change? I'm being facetious, obviously, but a studio this large consistently underdelivering to this extent is not normal.

 

12 hours ago, DrakeWurrum said:

That's pretty much the given, yes, but that doesn't change the fact that they don't seem to be receiving our feedback effectively. It still does seem tone deaf on Rebecca's part, because she made it sound like we want our lich to be undead, when that's not our problem with it at all. I can understand Steve and Scott being so busy as to not even be thinking about Old Blood, to some extent.

And then there's this, yeah. The comments on the stream were SO monumentally out-of-touch that I'm still not sure if these guys were generally THIS clueless or if they were deliberately concocting a straw man. The whole "people want to grind for 76" days is just... What? Where are you getting this from? Who ever said anything like this? Did you absorb any of what people are actually saying? Again - somewhere along the line there seems to be a lot of miscommunication and it's getting to be problematic. I don't expect developers to browse the forums for hours, fair enough, but speaking like a high-school student who didn't study is just embarrassing.

[DoomFruit]

19 hours ago, Aldain said:

And me.

And my axe.

I mean, yeah, I am very happy to wait.

First impressions have an extremely disproportionate effect, and a string of terribad first impressions from the majority of DE's recent changes are not helping their cause in my mind.