So, the Aksomati Prime...is worse? (Disposition)

[Chronometria]

I`ve been a fan of the aksomati for a long time and I`ve invested a lot of forma and a riven to make the weapon work. Its one of those weapons that doesn't really have the best stats, but that can be made good because of its high riven disposition. It is one of those weapons that rivens were truly intended for - not able to shine on its own, but with a riven, it moves back into being usable once again.

Now the prime version comes out and I`m left wondering if its worth sticking with my old weapon....because their riven dispositions are now different. The two weapons have been split apart, with the prime being much reduced in its disposition. The old one is disposition 4, which is very high in weapon terms.

The unfortunate thing is that the prime aksomati has only quality of life buffs....and thus, using it, with the same riven, would mean a significantly worse gun. Am I really reading this situation true?

 

*edit* - see down a few posts for a stat comparison of the two weapons.

*Further Edit* as of page 3, an update has changed the disposition of the prime weapons. Our theorycrafting till that point may be innacurate as the disposition may have been the same for both normal and prime variants*

Edited December 19, 2019 by Chronometria

[Skaleek]

I can almost guarantee you even with a lower disposition the new shiny will have enough boost to base stats to blow the old Aksomati out of the water. The reason i say almost is... well... Zhuge prime.

Edited December 17, 2019 by Skaleek

[Uan91]

I trust that in the next disposition, aksomati prime will receive the same disposition of the normal variant, otherwise would be a waste of slot weapon.

I'm a Aksomati fan too!

[Chronometria]

4 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

I can almost guarantee you even with a lower disposition the new shiny will have enough boost to base stats to blow the old Aksomati out of the water. The reason i say almost is... well... Zhuge prime.

Well that's the problem, the new version doesn't, we have seen the stats and its basically a tiny bit adjusted - slightly larger mag size, some status (its a crit weapon) and tiny bit of damage. The changes may as well not exist. The disposition loss meanwhile can significantly cripple its stats. The baza prime meanwhile gets some noteworthy improvements in comparison and it was already quite good.

Edited December 17, 2019 by Chronometria

[Skaleek]

3 minutes ago, Chronometria said:

tiny bit of damage.

I heard it was double damage but -30% fire rate? Havent seen the stats myself, care to share (im at work)?

Edited December 17, 2019 by Skaleek

[Chronometria]

22 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

I heard it was double damage but -30% fire rate? Havent seen the stats myself, care to share (im at work)?

Hmm, this thing wont let me paste or add anything - but if you simply add a point of damage to each damage type, that's basically what you are getting.

*edit* - managed to get it to work below. Behold my MS paint and image storage powers!

Edited December 17, 2019 by Chronometria

[Chronometria]

[Rubbertubtub01]

I wouldn't think that less than 1 fire rate increase, 1 damage increase, and 10% status increase is worth a disposition decrease. 

[IceColdHawk]

Barely an improvement, yikes. Zhuge Prime vibes come up. And if the riven dispo ends up making Aksomati better than the Prime then i'll be left speechless honestly.

Edited December 18, 2019 by IceColdHawk

[zoffmode]

Look, it's all about the fashion frame. Also Baro will S#&$talk you for using non-prime version. Do you really want to stoop that low?

Just like how Aklex Prime had better disposition than Lex Prime for a while... I trust it'll get evened out eventually.

[LSG501]

Blame the dispo on DE's new 'bright idea' for rivens of different dispo for primes compared with non primes....

Honestly looking at those stats I'd say the aksomati prime is hardly worth even farming for, especially if you've put the forma (and riven) into the non prime version already

[Lakais]

 

15 minutes ago, Chronometria said:

Ahhh, so refreshing to see a Prime variant NOT being a blatant double-damage variant of their normal version. I do not fetishize over large damage numbers (i don't even see them as they are turned off) but for the sake of keeping up with the rest of my squad, I have to upgrade to prime versions that have some inexplicable boost to performance while looking decidedly… meh, most of the times. 

I abhore the nonsense Rivens have turned into and I have been non-plussed about primes so many times that this above is what I think all primes should be. I wouldn't consider getting primes difficult. Just tedious. 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

If your first thought is “riven bad then weapon bad” then you have a serious problem.

Edited December 17, 2019 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[Foefaller]

50 minutes ago, Chronometria said:

+10 status chance means two 60/60 mods will give you a 39.6% status chance rate, with a gun that (kinda) leans slash too.

Even if you do just one, it's a 28.8% chance, or just over 1 in every 4 bullets, which for MG pistols like the Aksomanti is more than enough of a proc chance for something like Viral or Rad. And that's before figuring in the mandatory multishot mods, which would probably bring it closer to 1 in 3.

Don't dis extra status chance on a crit weapon just because it doesn't make it more critty.

Edited December 17, 2019 by Foefaller

[Chronometria]

11 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

If your first thought is “riven bad then weapon bad” then you have a serious problem.

The aksomati have a 4 disposition for a reason. They are unpopular and, without that huge boost from the riven, they are vastly less effective than alternatives (kuva twin stubba, akstilletto). Their riven really helps them and taking that away without granting a big enough boost for the weapon to stand alone without that means the weapon just doesn't work.

[Chronometria]

13 minutes ago, Foefaller said:

+10 status chance means two 60/60 mods will give you a 39.6% status chance rate, with a gun that (kinda) leans slash too.

Even if you do just one, it's a 28.8% chance, or just over 1 in every 4 bullets, which for MG pistols like the Aksomanti is more than enough of a proc chance for something like Viral or Rad. And that's before figuring in the mandatory multishot mods, which would probably bring it closer to 1 in 3.

Don't dis extra status chance on a crit weapon just because it doesn't make it more critty.

The problem here though is that one would be much better off using an akstilletto instead - much bigger status and double the damage.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

3 minutes ago, Chronometria said:

The aksomati have a 4 disposition for a reason. They are unpopular and, without that huge boost from the riven, they are vastly less effective than alternatives (kuva twin stubba, akstilletto). Their riven really helps them and taking that away without granting a big enough boost for the weapon to stand alone without that means the weapon just doesn't work.

And the prime doesn’t need a riven. Therefore it is the better weapon.

[Leyers_of_facade]

Dang, those stats are such a disappointment, guess I am sticking with my aksomati.

I have a feeling with the riven I have, my aksomati might actually end up being better than the prime

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

57 minutes ago, Rubbertubtub01 said:

I wouldn't think that less than 1 fire rate increase, 1 damage increase, and 10% status increase is worth a disposition decrease. 

This. Sounds like aksomati basic is better with even a "decent" riven. And it's not that great a weapon. Useable just not great.

14 minutes ago, Chronometria said:

The aksomati have a 4 disposition for a reason. They are unpopular and, without that huge boost from the riven, they are vastly less effective than alternatives (kuva twin stubba, akstilletto). Their riven really helps them and taking that away without granting a big enough boost for the weapon to stand alone without that means the weapon just doesn't work.

And they'll probably nerf the riven dispo a couple times because rivens seemingly have nothing to do with balance, only popularity. 

 

Yeah, I know, they said they'd take power ranking into account when tweaking dispo but I dont feel like that's true. 

Edited December 17, 2019 by (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA

[(PSN)Agent_CHAR]

8 minutes ago, Chronometria said:

The problem here though is that one would be much better off using an akstilletto instead - much bigger status and double the damage.

Wow, that's blatantly ignoring a whole lot of stats like the aksomati's 9% higher CC and 1x higher CD, it's 2x fire rate and 2x magazine capacity.  On top of one of these guns being 50% slash while the other is 60% impact.

What makes the aksomati so amazing at at disposition of 4 with a riven is that the gun *should* have a disposition of 2.  But hey, you keep using that Akstilleto so that it keeps a disposition of 1 and I'll keep using the better gun xD.

[Foefaller]

1 hour ago, Chronometria said:

The problem here though is that one would be much better off using an akstilletto instead - much bigger status and double the damage.

For a pure status weapons, sure.

But we're not talking about stacking Corrosive procs to strip armor, we're talking about a single viral proc to cut the enemy's effective health in half for a pair of machine pistols whose effective DPS before procs is already going to be TWICE the Akstilleto's thanks to its crit chance and multipler; with Primed Pistol Gambit and Target Cracker, Aksomanti Prime has an effective damage multiplier of 4.34x from all the red crits it gets.

Despite what some may have lead you to believe, only shotguns need 100% status chance for status procs to be an effective part of a weapon build, and with automatic weapons, as long as you don't expect to strip armor or stack infinite bleeds that number can go *much* lower.

Edited December 17, 2019 by Foefaller

[(PSN)robotwars7]

to be fair, the AkSomati were going to struggle to stand out in the Akimbo Primed pistols category; you've got the AkJagara Prime, AkStiletto Prime, AkLex Prime and AkVasto Prime.. all of which are already good. the only other entry we need in this category is AkMagnus Prime, which I would have definitely preferred over AkSomati Prime.

plus it's not too late to buff the weapons, especially since some people will be paying top dollar for them.

[Marvelous_A]

Basically DE's questionable design philosophy is doing its work again like Liches and RJ.

[80think08]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb (XB1)GearsMatrix301:

If your first thought is “riven bad then weapon bad” then you have a serious problem.

 

vor einer Stunde schrieb (XB1)GearsMatrix301:

And the prime doesn’t need a riven. Therefore it is the better weapon.

wow

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, 80think08 said:

 

wow

Is that a “wow you really stuck the truth to him like a pitchfork to the eye”?

or “wow you couldn’t be more wrong”.

Rivens suck, and were a terrible way to try and breathe life into lesser weapons, and their mechanics are starting to infect the newer content, effectively making Warframe as a whole worse.

Edited December 18, 2019 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301