I'm ok with a Amesha nerf\rework...

[xS0nico]

...with the condition that you buff the other 3 Archwings aswell.

Because seriously, they are godawful.
Elytron is a meme, Odonata Shield is a giant lie against Crewships and Iztal would be a neat combo for Railjack if it wasn't for the fact that the combo "Blink+Invisibility" is now either gone or annoying to use. (didn't test it, but judging by how Blink works it's either one of those 2)

And yes, i know that Railjack now gives permanent Archwing buffs, but they required a lot of grinding (i believe Lv.8) and i don't think it's going to change a whole lot. Maybe the blink buff, but that's it really.

I hate the fact that out of 4 only 1 it's the only decent option. 

Edited January 4, 2020 by xS0nico

[KnossosTNC]

That's the plan, as of the last Devstream.

We'll just have to wait and see how it goes.

[Uan91]

I'm not for a simple reason: the rework Is needed only because of Empyrean, amesha in other modes was fine.

[Aeon94]

Other Archwings suck so bad even with the buffs from Intrinsics. They can't even survive a few shots in Veil and their abilities are worthless ( barring Itzal's invis and blackhole with augment ).

DE has to rework all Archwings if they want them to fit into Railjack gameplay.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

agreed.

- Itzal should be a hit-and run archwing, functioning like a Fighter. it should have faster flying speed (all Archwings can Blink now so it won't be the Meta) and it's drones be buffed. maybe also give it increased damage whilst moving?

-Elytron should be a Destroyer/heavy Archwing, it's powers need VERY substantial damage buffs and Core Vent could do with replacing.

- Odonata should be the jack of all trades, able to do some damage as well as protect the user. Energy Shield should have something like a fixed 95% Damage reduction bonus whilst active, then it would be viable against higher level enemies.

- Amesha serves pretty well as a protector/support Archwing without needing a nerf.

[xS0nico]

9 minutes ago, KnossosTNC said:

That's the plan, as of the last Devstream.

We'll just have to wait and see how it goes.

I'm just hoping because really, if they're going to nerf the only "decent" archwing without buffing the other ones jumping to a ship to another is going to be a absolute pain. And that's a shame, because that's honestly one of the most fun parts of railjack for me, cause it's fast and fun.
 

7 minutes ago, Uan91 said:

I'm not for a simple reason: the rework Is needed only because of Empyrean, amesha in other modes was fine.

To be honest Amesha is one hell of a really powerful archwing even outside of Empyrean, almost borderline broken if you ask me. Not saying it should be nerfed, but i won't complain IF in exchange of a nerf (not even a heavy one, mind you) you give me 3 more powerful archwings.
 

6 minutes ago, Aeon94 said:

Other Archwings suck so bad even with the buffs from Intrinsics. They can't even survive a few shots in Veil and their abilities are worthless ( barring Itzal's invis and blackhole with augment ).

DE has to rework all Archwings if they want them to fit into Railjack gameplay.

I was reluctant to farm the Instrics for buffing Archwings, since Warframe lately has the "Effort = Reward" out of the roof for the worst.
Shame that i was right. :| 

Edited January 4, 2020 by xS0nico

[xS0nico]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

agreed.

- Itzal should be a hit-and run archwing, functioning like a Fighter. it should have faster flying speed (all Archwings can Blink now so it won't be the Meta) and it's drones be buffed. maybe also give it increased damage whilst moving?

-Elytron should be a Destroyer/heavy Archwing, it's powers need VERY substantial damage buffs and Core Vent could do with replacing.

- Odonata should be the jack of all trades, able to do some damage as well as protect the user. Energy Shield should have something like a fixed 95% Damage reduction bonus whilst active, then it would be viable against higher level enemies.

- Amesha serves pretty well as a protector/support Archwing without needing a nerf.

I'd say to Iztal to give a new 1° aswell. Like the new one it's just a copy and paste, even the sound it's the same from Valkyr's, which is...really underwhelming. 

Agreed 100% about the others. Like i said, Odonata shield right now it's a giant lie. 


Just to be clear, my comment about Amesha it's more of a "look, if you want to nerf it fine, but buff the other ones first so we have atleast CHOICE and build possibility, something that currently it's lacking a lot."
I'm not asking for a nerf, just to buff the other 3.

Edited January 4, 2020 by xS0nico

[dEjAvU5566]

As long as Vortex+ RJ collision exists, how archwing perform is irrelevant.

And of course DE gonna fix it since “it is not their intention”.

 

[More-L]

DE Scott claimed that archwings will/should be balanced around Railjack moving forward. Amesha does need a nerf (damage reduction instead of immunity.) Every archwing needs 5-10x more overall health than they currently have if enemies in Railjack are keeping their current damage on an archwing.

Every archwing needs a rework of some description to fit in to Railjack gameplay, but for now, to make it really easy for DE all they need to do is add a 0 on the end of each archwings health stats and done, sorted for now.

[Traumtulpe]

23 minutes ago, Aeon94 said:

Other Archwings suck so bad

This. They suck. Their abilities suck. Ripline in space sucks in particular.

Who is surprised that Amesha dominates Railjack? Nobody at all ever.

You need 2 things:

1. Give every Archwing 4 useful abilities or destroy Amesha. Anyone taking bets?
2. Create an Avionic that increases health and heals over time for Archwings within 100 meters.

[Acersecomic]

I'm fine with Amesha nerfs as it is pretty much an immortal show-stopper.

However, I'd also like to see the other 3 receive meaningful and usable buffs, making all four archwings viable picks, just like warframes and many, many weapons ingame are.

[Ikserdok]

railjack gives permament archwing buffs, yes, these for power and movemnt are usable and significant everywhere but defensive...defensive buffs gives literally nothing on those high lvl railjack missions, of something was hittinghard/1shoting you it is not stopped by unlocked buffs to defense from railjack skills to unlock, are still getting enough hard hits/1shots so you even dont see this buffs to defense

[Masquerine]

I've been using itzal in archwing missions to farm titanium/asterite. I tried using its abilities to fight enemies but they are useless. itzal's 4 doesn't even register damage on level 1 fighters, not even a 0. Itzal's cosmic crush with the cold snap augment did 42 damage to a level 1 fighter, and that is with 8/8/8/8 intrinsic and 3 forma in the itzal. Fighters respect your stealth but crewships do not.

[affropiaf]

or just revert the old nerf on elytron about thumper stacking , give us back hitscan archgun or change figther missile to dumbfire one , increase survivability of other archwing...

[Xarteros]

Why does something need a nerf simply because it performs exactly as it is intended?

Amesha is in absolutely NO way the issue. The issue is that Archwings have been left for so long that DE have never bothered fixing them to keep them more in line with the rest of the game. They clearly need to start doing that, now that Archwing is integrated into Railjack, and that starts with buffing the other three, not nerfing the only one that actually achieves its function.

When the other Archwings are given any sense of actual purpose in Railjack, then you can start talking about whether or not Amesha is balanced.

[(PSN)calvin_0]

oh no... DE is going to nerf Amesha? how am I going to clear future archwing mission without the safety net of Amesha?

[Cubewano]

2 hours ago, Uan91 said:

I'm not for a simple reason: the rework Is needed only because of Empyrean, amesha in other modes was fine.

not really, it was still an immortal beast with infinite energy and the ability to pretty much deplete all enemy threat with consistent ease. 

[JackHargreav]

Didn't they say that they want to buff every archwing instead of nerfing amesha?

[Cubewano]

4 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

Didn't they say that they want to buff every archwing instead of nerfing amesha?

they said they wanted to rebalance all of archwing to work with empyrean and that it'd include bringing up some things but also likely bringing down some things as well like amesha. 

Edited January 4, 2020 by Cubewano

[Cubewano]

10 minutes ago, George_PPS said:

I felt sick of non-stop nerfing to the game. But this is making me feel disgusting now. Who is making all these game killing designs? Sad. 

They've nerfed like three things over the last year and buffed a cosmic ton more to the betterment of this games overall experience. Please grow up. 

Edited January 4, 2020 by Cubewano

[JackHargreav]

1 minute ago, Cubewano said:

they said they wanted to rebalance all of archwing to work with empyrean and that it'd include bringing up some things but also likely bringing down some things as well like amesha. 

I hope that means they will actually balance the game, instead of making archwings either more powerful than the Railjack itself or just nerfing everything into the ground.

[Smilomaniac]

I'm not fine with anything being nerfed. The idea that there is any semblance of balance in this game is absurd, so in effect all you're doing is taking the fun out of it.

Besides that, DE has a history with over-nerfing stuff, instead of tuning things down they make them near useless.
That's not the worst part however, it's that nothing in the game feels safe. I don't put forma into new stuff, because it's stuff like the Acceltra, that gets punished via riven disposition, the stats get annihilated or both. In effect, we're getting hours of work wasted because they can't tune things from the get go, even though it takes a simple calculation to put it somewhere near other weapons.

DE is EXTREMELY lazy about tuning and they don't give a single f about the time or money that you spent on the game. On top of that, you've got a handful of sycophants excusing anything and everything DE does with "balance", when it's about them being 'umadbro' about how other people play or enjoy themselves in the game. It's pathetic.

[Cubewano]

7 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

I hope that means they will actually balance the game, instead of making archwings either more powerful than the Railjack itself or just nerfing everything into the ground.

Same, and having the balance match the mode does at least seem their intention. 

2 minutes ago, George_PPS said:

Grow up to be a white knight? You always welcome any nerfs or changes. Not everyone. Look at the declining player base. Players are voting by taking real actions.

Provide real feedbacks or grow up. 

Grow up to be a rationale being who doesn't have to hyper exaggerate and whine their points in the face of any change they are told to not like. If a nerf improves the games balance so it shall be, likewise if a buff is needed to improve balance, all I care about is if it improves gameplay and basically no nerfs happened last year, and those that did happened to the betterment of the games overall balance. If you think that is tied to player activity please do provide sources to back up that argument, because we've had much heavier nerfs years in the past to no loss of growth so I'd like to see how you are rationalizing that conclusion. 

[Cubewano]

6 minutes ago, Smilomaniac said:

I'm not fine with anything being nerfed. The idea that there is any semblance of balance in this game is absurd, so in effect all you're doing is taking the fun out of it.

Besides that, DE has a history with over-nerfing stuff, instead of tuning things down they make them near useless.
That's not the worst part however, it's that nothing in the game feels safe. I don't put forma into new stuff, because it's stuff like the Acceltra, that gets punished via riven disposition, the stats get annihilated or both. In effect, we're getting hours of work wasted because they can't tune things from the get go, even though it takes a simple calculation to put it somewhere near other weapons.

DE is EXTREMELY lazy about tuning and they don't give a single f about the time or money that you spent on the game. On top of that, you've got a handful of sycophants excusing anything and everything DE does with "balance", when it's about them being 'umadbro' about how other people play or enjoy themselves in the game. It's pathetic.

what was the last thing de over nerfed to the point of uselessness? 

[LazyKnight]

14 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

I hope that means they will actually balance the game, instead of making archwings either more powerful than the Railjack itself or just nerfing everything into the ground.

I doubt DE will balance it one go or any time soon. It is in a terrible condition and it is by no means a simple tweak to fix this mess. There are 4 Archwing and all of them need a total rework and it is more than a simple balance pass.