Pets 2.0 Feedback in Light of Devstream #137

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

Things addressed in the Devstream:

• Stasis: Glad to see it's finally being removed after many Devstreams of mentioning it being in the works, Fortuna patch notes making mention of changing it, and Orbiter 2.0 Arsenal changes mentioning stasis removal was in the works. After so long, finally happening.
• Breed Specific Changes: All good.
• Mod Specific Changes: All good.
• Gear Wheel Commands: Amazing.
• Genetic Heritage: Please, no. Randomized appearances, all well and fine. Randomized bonus stats like Railjack? Please, just stop. It's bad enough it's a large investment to make a good companion build with Forma, having to try and search for ideal bonus stats will only make things worse, and encourage people to throw away whole collections of pets repeatedly to have ones with better bonuses. Unless there's some way to alter a companion's genetic bonus after it's already been incubated, matured, and forma'd 7 times, this is a really terrible idea.

Things NOT addressed in the Devstream:

• Pet mod acquisition is still the same after all this time. Drahks, the only source of companion mods outside of Feral Kubrows, are still an uncommon enemy compared to Lancers and Elite Lancers. Drahks still have a less than 1% drop chance to drop a basic companion mod, an 0.11% (slightly more than one in a thousand) to drop one of the Link mods that actually make companions usable, and a 0.01% drop chance to drop Bite (one in ten thousand) with a booby-trapped drop table that also drops breed specific mods at the same rate as Bite. Breed specific mods with a guaranteed acquisition chance from incubating a Kubrow of that breed. The breed specific mods need to be removed, and Drahk mod drop chance increased, so that it's feasible for someone to acquire the basic mods. Otherwise it becomes a case of Kubrows being useless after a certain planet, probably Saturn's damage spike, and new players defaulting to Sentinels up until they can acquire the plat to buy the mods they need.
• Fetch is a 3.28% drop from a strong enemy that only appears when summoned by a Terra Sniper on the Orb Vallis. This also needs to change. I have acquired several spare copies of Fetch. I've also done so many Orb Vallis bounties I'm R5 with Fortuna, and I've acquired every single bounty reward aside from a complete collection of Mecha set mods. Hyneas, the enemies that drop fetch, are easily the most rare non-Raknoid enemy I've encountered on the Orb Vallis.
• Companion mods still cost a high amount of capacity, and as we get more options for more companion mods, they're still worthless because the forma amount on companions locks in to very few builds. Companion mods, with the exception of precepts, cost as much or more than similar Warframe and weapon mods, despite the fact that companions have 10 mod slots instead of 8. Link Health, 12, same as Vitality. Link Armor, 14, same as Steel Fiber. Link Shield, 14, same as Redirection. Maul, 14, Bite, 16, each making companion damage good, same as Serration and Point Strike. But aside from Precept mods, Kavat attacks mods, and 60/60 companion mods, Loyal Companion, and Strain Eruption for whatever reason, all other companion mods cost 9 capacity or more. The end result if having to forma most slots on every companion to fit on all these R10 mods, which is a lot of forma, in addition to the credit and endo costs. Slashing most companion mod capacity costs by 25% would ease up on the forma requirements for pets, and let other mods be used more often.
• A Kubrow's attack range leads it to not attacking enemies shooting at it from a distance, unless I close the distance myself. This generally leads to a Kubrow dying from standing still. Unless the attack command in the gear wheel increases the range of Kubrow attacks, this should be looked at. Unless I'm wrong. I haven't had this issue with Kavats.
• Companions have higher tanking stats then their Warframe counterparts because they don't have access to the same level of movement to avoid damage from enemies. Despite this, they still go down regularly. Companions having access to more evasion, such as Kavat attacks which seem to dodge enemy gunfire, would be useful.

Edited January 31, 2020 by Grey_Star_Rival_Defender

[(PSN)IndianChiefJeff]

Wait...Genetic Heritage? As in...More randomized stats? I already have all the companions, I don't want some stupid stat to dictate whether or not I should still keep them.

[ldegroodt115]

Agree, no more randomized stats. They suck. A lot of pets are already bred and then dumped because of energy color/head/tail/size.

Additionally pets really need moddable claws/teeth/etc equivalent. With sentinels and MOAs you can stack precepts and EHP mods on them and build their weapons for damage/utility/CC. With kubrows and kavats you're trying to do all that with half of the mod slots. Also they require so much forma with 14-16 drain mods. 6-8 slots polarized.. wonder if that'll be addressed. I'm looking forward to a workshop, hopefully.

Edited January 31, 2020 by ldegroodt115

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

That's exactly what I'm afraid will happen. It'll be kind of worthless stats, "increased damage against Grineer, increased damage resistance to one damage type," but it's still bad. I bought money and put it into forma to put it into companions, to get told "well now they're less than completely optimal" is a thing of dread.

[DrBorris]

On 2020-01-31 at 10:49 PM, (PS4)IndianChiefJeff said:

Wait...Genetic Heritage? As in...More randomized stats? I already have all the companions, I don't want some stupid stat to dictate whether or not I should still keep them.

DE basically wants to make a breeding mini-game where you try to make the perfect pet. They actually said something along the lines of it having no RNG, where the result of combining genetic codes would be entirely predictable. However, I can't help but imagine that in order to breed you will need to get the specific traits you want in the parents... which would be RNG.

It could be an interesting system, but tbh it feels like an unnecessary layer even if DE fully delivers and makes it good. We already have modding for customization, we don't need even more layers on top of that.

 

On 2020-01-31 at 10:32 PM, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

Companions have higher tanking stats then their Warframe counterparts because they don't have access to the same level of movement to avoid damage from enemies. Despite this, they still go down regularly. Companions having access to more evasion, such as Kavat attacks which seem to dodge enemy gunfire, would be useful.

This is the single thing that is holding MOAs back. The have some intersting precepts, but they are by far the squishiest of all companions. We shouldn't ever feel like we have to babysit our companions.

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

2 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

It could be an interesting system, but tbh it feels like an unnecessary layer even if DE fully delivers and makes it good. We already have modding for customization, we don't need even more layers on top of that.

If DE addressed required mods, we could have more variable builds than "stack stats x, y, and z, in that order," especially with companions for whom I forgot to add another bullet point into the OP. If DE slashed companion mod capacity costs, there'd be more build variance in companions, meaning modding will be something that can be varied. Instead of adding what will probably be a randomized, probably near-worthless stat onto companions the players have as much control over as they do a drop rate without loot abilities.

Speaking of customization, we're already getting more cosmetic differences in Kubrows in Pets 2.0, why do we need built in bonus stat differences when players can already try to breed a Kubrow they find visually appealing.

[Redfeather75]

I hope the genetic heritage system can learn from the kuva weapon fusion thing.

[VenomousValentine]

7 hours ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

Things addressed in the Devstream:

• Stasis: Glad to see it's finally being removed after many Devstreams of mentioning it being in the works, Fortuna patch notes making mention of changing it, and Orbiter 2.0 Arsenal changes mentioning stasis removal was in the works. After so long, finally happening.
• Breed Specific Changes: All good.
• Mod Specific Changes: All good.
• Gear Wheel Commands: Amazing.
• Genetic Heritage: Please, no. Randomized appearances, all well and fine. Randomized bonus stats like Railjack? Please, just stop. It's bad enough it's a large investment to make a good companion build with Forma, having to try and search for ideal bonus stats will only make things worse, and encourage people to throw away whole collections of pets repeatedly to have ones with better bonuses. Unless there's some way to alter a companion's genetic bonus after it's already been incubated, matured, and forma'd 7 times, this is a really terrible idea.

Things NOT addressed in the Devstream:

• Pet mod acquisition is still the same after all this time. Drahks, the only source of companion mods outside of Feral Kubrows, are still an uncommon enemy compared to Lancers and Elite Lancers. Drahks still have a less than 1% drop chance to drop a basic companion mod, an 0.11% (slightly more than one in a thousand) to drop one of the Link mods that actually make companions usable, and a 0.01% drop chance to drop Bite (one in ten thousand) with a booby-trapped drop table that also drops breed specific mods at the same rate as Bite. Breed specific mods with a guaranteed acquisition chance from incubating a Kubrow of that breed. The breed specific mods need to be removed, and Drahk mod drop chance increased, so that it's feasible for someone to acquire the basic mods. Otherwise it becomes a case of Kubrows being useless after a certain planet, probably Saturn's damage spike, and new players defaulting to Sentinels up until they can acquire the plat to buy the mods they need.
• Fetch is a 3.28% drop from a strong enemy that only appears when summoned by a Terra Sniper on the Orb Vallis. This also needs to change. I have acquired several spare copies of Fetch. I've also done so many Orb Vallis bounties I'm R5 with Fortuna, and I've acquired every single bounty reward aside from a complete collection of Mecha set mods. Hyneas, the enemies that drop fetch, are easily the most rare non-Raknoid enemy I've encountered on the Orb Vallis.
• Companion mods still cost a high amount of capacity, and as we get more options for more companion mods, they're still worthless because the forma amount on companions locks in to very few builds. Companion mods, with the exception of precepts, cost as much or more than similar Warframe and weapon mods, despite the fact that companions have 10 mod slots instead of 8. Link Health, 12, same as Vitality. Link Armor, 14, same as Steel Fiber. Link Shield, 14, same as Redirection. Maul, 14, Bite, 16, each making companion damage good, same as Serration and Point Strike. But aside from Precept mods, Kavat attacks mods, and 60/60 companion mods, Loyal Companion, and Strain Eruption for whatever reason, all other companion mods cost 9 capacity or more. The end result if having to forma most slots on every companion to fit on all these R10 mods, which is a lot of forma, in addition to the credit and endo costs. Slashing most companion mod capacity costs by 25% would ease up on the forma requirements for pets, and let other mods be used more often.
• A Kubrow's attack range leads it to not attacking enemies shooting at it from a distance, unless I close the distance myself. This generally leads to a Kubrow dying from standing still. Unless the attack command in the gear wheel increases the range of Kubrow attacks, this should be looked at. Unless I'm wrong. I haven't had this issue with Kavats.
• Companions have higher tanking stats then their Warframe counterparts because they don't have access to the same level of movement to avoid damage from enemies. Despite this, they still go down regularly. Companions having access to more evasion, such as Kavat attacks which seem to dodge enemy gunfire, would be useful.

I feel like since moas underperform compared to every other companion we need to be able to give them our weapons [with 50% reduced damage so it isnt completely broken]

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

1 hour ago, VenomousValentine said:

I feel like since moas underperform compared to every other companion we need to be able to give them our weapons [with 50% reduced damage so it isnt completely broken]

True, but I’ve been focused primarily on improving Kubrows and Kavats. Moas suffer from issues that I don’t have expertise in, unlike Kubrows and Kavats. I hope to acquire a full Moa collection at the time I complete all the Fortuna content, but until then I’m focused on biological companions.

That said, I do use Moas when the incubator is running. I did find my Moa went down more often than my Kubrows despite having the highest defensive stats available to it, but I figured that was the result of it standing still to fire. In addition, Sentinel weapons already prevent the use of your primary rifle / shotgun, secondary, or Helios only melee in most situations, so addressing those would probably be a more realistic improvement than straight weapon share between Warframe and Moa. In particular, since Moas are effectively purposed as sentinels that can use guns without dying, better Sentinel weapons or Sentinel mods might be useful.

[Monolake]

absolutely necessary feature: Remove attack precept to prevent them from attacking period (just like sentinels) 

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

1 hour ago, Monolake said:

absolutely necessary feature: Remove attack precept to prevent them from attacking period (just like sentinels) 

No. No no no no no. Kubrows and Kavats have enough mods as is, adding a third precept for them to just attack will restrict builds even further.

BETTER IDEA, way better idea. Gear Wheel Command to set them to not attack enemies. Make them passive.

[Sir-Swerving]

Giving conservation captures a new resource reward to re-roll the genetics of a Kubrow/Kavat would be a acceptable compromise, As long as you can selectively pick what genetics you want to change, For example if you reroll a Smeeta you should be able to keep that Kavat a Smeeta.

Kubrows and Kavats are living creatures, They shouldn't just be disposed of if they have a bad roll, The Tenno have access to some advanced technology they should be able to tamper with the genetics the Kubrows/Kavats they have already.

Edited February 1, 2020 by Sir-Swerving

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

Conservation being used to change a Kubrow or Kavat's genetic heritage would be an acceptable compromise, as long as there's no RNG.

[xcrimsonlegendx]

Yeah, that's a big no from me on the random stats. I do like the idea of additional bonuses but not like that.

Also, super thrilled that my maggots are being buffed. Hopefully in a significant way.

[SolidSnake8774]

One thing I'd like to see addressed. Pets getting invulnerability period like us when revived.

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

I think precepts should be in it's own mod bench entirely rather than being shared among all other combat mods. Kinda like how parazon is with hacking. My concern is how stupid the AI is going to be when put to defesnsive or passive mode through that new gear wheel. Is it going to just sit there in the fire/toxic sludge/damaging enviorment? Will it move around if taking damage? How far away from the player is the pet going to be? Does it somehow have spider sense to know where hostiles are and actively avoid it?

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

• What if instead of there being genetic heritage, given that weve already formaed our kitties and puppies to death and aren't going to be looking forward to breeding a more perfect kitty, what if we, oh, i don't know, just came up with craftable vaccines that will increase resistance to certain damage types. Apply them like genetic stabilizers. Five in total, one reduces damage from ips, the other four reduce damage from the primary damage type, and it's two variants, so a toxin vaccine would reduce damage from toxin most, but also corrosive and viral, fire vaccine would effect fire most, but also radiation and blast... You can only use one a time, and they have a 7 day effective period. 

[VenomousValentine]

Make pets revivable in arbitration the normal way so you can actually take them. There's no point if they just get domed 5 minutes in and you never see them again

[(PSN)FadedSpirit]

I agree on random stats being a horrible idea. I cringed when I heard it. I have so many companions I've already invested 6 forma into, I don't want to feel like my time and effort was wasted. It's time consuming enough breeding for pattern/color combination, we don't need random stats thrown into the mix.

I've also gotten rather attached to my companions after spending so much time breeding for them and formaing them. I'd hope if they added additional stats to companions they'd allow you to apply the desired effect to already existent companions instead of rolling for new ones, as others have suggested already.

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)FadedSpirit said:

I agree on random stats being a horrible idea. I cringed when I heard it. I have so many companions I've already invested 6 forma into, I don't want to feel like my time and effort was wasted. It's time consuming enough breeding for pattern/color combination, we don't need random stats thrown into the mix.

I've also gotten rather attached to my companions after spending so much time breeding for them and formaing them. I'd hope if they added additional stats to companions they'd allow you to apply the desired effect to already existent companions instead of rolling for new ones, as others have suggested already.

The attachment issue is the real problem. I, and a lot of people I know, only breed as many pets as you need for mastery, because it feels bad.... Uh. Well. Murdering them because you don't love them. Which is what you're doing.

Any pet you play with every day is a pet that you are forming an attachment to, it's an irrational feeling, but it's a legitimate one. Telling people that to get the benefits they're talking about with this "random" system means they'll have to forfeit all their pets and start over, is kinda upsetting really...

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

Also wouldn't mind more types of pets. Bros and Kavats are nice and all, but a multi tailed fox pet would be *@##$in'...

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

Not sure why that word is censored but I accept the decision of moderators. 

 

I redact it and instead suggest "wicked".

Edited February 2, 2020 by (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx

[DoomFruit]

Unless I can breed more abomination hybrids (whether from my existing stock or from scratch), I'm not interested even slightly in this.

[(NSW)Feralheart]

And what will happen with the bought stasis slots? Will we have some type of refund? Or they will be added to the companion slots?

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

1 hour ago, (NSW)Feralheart said:

And what will happen with the bought stasis slots? Will we have some type of refund? Or they will be added to the companion slots?

From what I understood in the devstream, Scott said it would just become pet slots.