What's the point of the ultra killer mega extreme grind?

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

3 hours ago, Skaleek said:

The Deadlock protocol grind was clean. There are very few rewards in each of the tables and it took less than a day (4 hrs) to farm everything with relative easy in public queue'd missions. I can't believe people are complaining about this grind when things like Turret velocity still exist. The lowest drop rate item is like ~10%. The granum void missions take a minute or two.

It's ok to admit or say that some of these people don't know what they're talking about or are being unreasonable in their expectations.

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

You understand the game a whole lot more when you look at it from under the lens lens of them just wanting you to stick around to spend money. That's what finally pulled me out of the game when I saw how much time I spent doing stuff I didn't like. Now I just check in and bounce back out, especially when there doesn't seem to be someone in control who has a vision of what they want it to become so it will always have that mindset without something more to it.

[tundra--]

Honestly the most frustrating thing about this new Tier 1-3 kill limit is this:

1. They are NOT spawning enough enemies to comfortably kill enough within the allotted time

2.  The drop rate for those pyramids that extend time is abysmal and inconsistent. 

I rarely ever post angry messages, but man DE you really got this change dead wrong.  Highly frustrating....  That is all.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

1 hour ago, tundra-- said:

Honestly the most frustrating thing about this new Tier 1-3 kill limit is this:

1. They are NOT spawning enough enemies to comfortably kill enough within the allotted time

Have you uhhh tried using Mesa? I get about 200/75 kills in the 1 minute of time we have lol.

[Methanoid]

the point is timegating, not a new thing by any means.

[SheikaVoid]

1 hour ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Have you uhhh tried using Mesa? I get about 200/75 kills in the 1 minute of time we have lol.

But, should one *have* to use Mesa to have a chance?  If everything is scaled to nukeframes, that just makes the meta less diverse and more boring.

[Tinklzs]

10 hours ago, taiiat said:

to give you something at all to do because collecting everything is literally the entire game.
Warframe is 100% a game about the journey and without a destination in any way whatsoever.

one shouldn't be asking to get things easier, but rather to get things............ funner? uhh whatever. it would be better to ask for the process of acquiring things to be more engaging and interesting, than just faster.

 I wouldn't mind the grind if it was fun. Kuva Liches, wasn't fun - to the point where when I got the rewards I never touched it again. The same will be here with the new mini-void. Which is a shame, it's a "built to destroy" mindset, aka get the loot then never do it again. Derelict, salvage, defection, ESO, among others, all follow this very bad mindset. It's a waste of development time (in my opinion) to create something that cannot stand on its own, that will be discarded after it's been sucked dry of resources (or what little fun it had).

 

I think that DE need to consider fun, FUN at the forefront, then the grind. Warframe isn't going to die because of it, but it's deteriorating, full of content that you only do once - then pass it by and say "oh I remember that!, *shudders*", like Dog Days, better left a memory.

  

22 minutes ago, SheikaVoid said:

But, should one *have* to use Mesa to have a chance?  If everything is scaled to nukeframes, that just makes the meta less diverse and more boring.

 

That just showcases the lack of real overall balance in Warframe more than anything else.  They balanced the mini-void event around nuke frames or fast kill frames like saryn/mesa/octavia. Yet if your frame of choice isn't on par with these frames, then it's irrelevant.

A direct way of balancing this (and ESO/SO) is having weapon kills (on a per weapon basis, as not all weapons are equal) give more benefit for a kill than normal.

1 kill with a frame is 1 point on mini-void.

1 kill with a corinth is 2 points on mini-void 

1 kill with the KNukor is 2 points (due to its range and crowd killing capabilities).

 

 

 

Edited June 14, 2020 by Tinklzs

[Aldain]

3 minutes ago, Tinklzs said:

I think that DE need to consider fun, FUN at the forefront, then the grind. Warframe isn't going to die because of it, but it's deteriorating, full of content that you only do once - then pass it by and say "oh I remember that!, *shudders*", like Dog Days, better left a memory.

Yep, I concur with that.

"If it's not fun, why bother?"

(To those who are bored, name the person who said that quote)

[SheikaVoid]

DE needs to, in my opinion, have more challenges based around things like parkour, which, while it can be made easier with mods and certain frames, is neither too hard for new players, nor just a year check for veterans.  Killing things in a certain amount of time has been done.

Edited June 14, 2020 by SheikaVoid

[taiiat]

56 minutes ago, Tinklzs said:

 I wouldn't mind the grind if it was fun.

right, and that's almost always the problem with what Warframe decides to offer. usually offers stuff that is equivalent to chores or 0IQ busy work rather than something that engages you (and thusly much more entertaining).

and yeah, content is also generally setup to be a very short term thing. after a few days or so of repeating __ content you no longer have any Progression/Gear reason to continue playing, and since the content itself was very repetitive and bland (RE: repetitive is not necessarily a big problem if it was interesting to complete). 

 

and if i think across the countless hundreds of games i've played - if games can make some of the most menial things imaginable entertaining to do, then Warframe absolutely could too.

because content that mainly all sums up to "stand around in this Map for __ Minutes while we give you some cardboard with legs to click on while you wait" - no, no that is not even close to the best that content could be.

Edited June 14, 2020 by taiiat

[tundra--]

4 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Have you uhhh tried using Mesa? I get about 200/75 kills in the 1 minute of time we have lol.

Yes.  In fact, that's the only frame that's viable at this point other than maybe Volt or Saryn.  Which is exactly the point, I don't want to have to play with only Mesa.  I'd like to use some of the other 30 some frames that are in the game and are way more enjoyable imho.

And to further the point, even with Mesa sometimes the specters don't spawn fast enough.  On top of that sometimes they don't drop enough time extension pyramids.  It got to the point in several Void missions that we were literally standing around waiting for the enemies to spawn.  Once they finally did spawn they didn't drop anything.  Time expired before getting to 150 through no fault of our own.  That's a bad design choice, there's no way around it.

[Tesseract7777]

On 2020-06-12 at 4:51 PM, XxElite2015xX said:

When it's harder than just farming prime parts and selling them to buy protea, fully build and a free fusion core, then it's too far.

I may sound cynical, but I'm afraid that's exactly why they did it. 

She is new and they want enough people to buy her and her bundle to make the money goal they are shooting for from her release. 

If she is too easy to get at launch they don't sell enough. This pattern has been going on for years. 

X thing is super hard to get at launch. 

If It was Meta, X things gets nerfed a few weeks or a couple months after launch. 

Shortly after this, when all the luster has worn off, X thing becomes much easier to grind. 

Rinse, repeat forever. 

Edited June 14, 2020 by Tesseract7777

[Tinklzs]

1 hour ago, taiiat said:

if games can make some of the most menial things imaginable entertaining to do, then Warframe absolutely could too.

Exactly.

 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

15 hours ago, tundra-- said:

Yes.  In fact, that's the only frame that's viable at this point other than maybe Volt or Saryn.  Which is exactly the point, I don't want to have to play with only Mesa.  I'd like to use some of the other 30 some frames that are in the game and are way more enjoyable imho.

And to further the point, even with Mesa sometimes the specters don't spawn fast enough.  On top of that sometimes they don't drop enough time extension pyramids.  It got to the point in several Void missions that we were literally standing around waiting for the enemies to spawn.  Once they finally did spawn they didn't drop anything.  Time expired before getting to 150 through no fault of our own.  That's a bad design choice, there's no way around it.

I got away with using Ivara and noise arrow but I understand your point.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

17 hours ago, SheikaVoid said:

But, should one *have* to use Mesa to have a chance?  If everything is scaled to nukeframes, that just makes the meta less diverse and more boring.

No and I get that. I did manage to use Ivara also but I didn't try out many frames. But in saying that also, you wouldn't use a hammer on a screw. Different tools for different jobs is just how Warframe is.

Edited June 14, 2020 by -CdG-Zilchy

[WOWESOMUCHDOGE]

So lets make make drop chance for every part 50% so players dont have to spend plat and obtain things easily

Then let the staffs starve to death because players are not buying plat anymore

[DoomFruit]

15 hours ago, kwlingo said:

This was the game from day one. If you don't like it two options. Either don't grind for it or just use plat.

Option 1 here is my preferred choice. I don't need any of this new stuff. My existing weapons are easily good enough. I lost the "gotta catch 'em all" mentality very quickly when the hema was vomited out on us.

To all those who just can't face the grind or terrible design decisions (why, exactly, are treasurers harder to kill than absolutely everything else in the map combined?) - just let go. Forget the items which are stuck behind this crap. You don't really need them.

[Aldain]

58 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Different tools for different jobs is just how Warframe is.

True enough, but let's also remember that Warframe has a bit of an issue where a big enough hammer can often do the job better than the correct tool.

Some things are so good at what they do that the only thing that they are bad for are Tridolons, everything else they smash through like its nothing, Mesa is just one of the biggest in that category, hell Peacemaker is even good for Spy Vaults most of the time because nothing can trigger an alarm if it is dead.

I just personally wish that "MOAR DAMAGE" wasn't the correct tool for almost everything these days.

[MorradiX]

21 hours ago, Hookinsu said:

Why are people complaining about the "grind" for Protea? Or was I just lucky?

It took me an overall of like 3-4h to farm ALL the stuff out of the void. the 3 Weapons and Protea herself. Including the Jackal-farming for the 2 blueprints. 

People act like it will take weeks of grinding to get those items. 

I'm just amazed that people think a couple of weeks is a long time  😄

 

Guess that makes me old  😉

[-CdG-Zilchy]

9 hours ago, Aldain said:

True enough, but let's also remember that Warframe has a bit of an issue where a big enough hammer can often do the job better than the correct tool.

Some things are so good at what they do that the only thing that they are bad for are Tridolons, everything else they smash through like its nothing, Mesa is just one of the biggest in that category, hell Peacemaker is even good for Spy Vaults most of the time because nothing can trigger an alarm if it is dead.

I just personally wish that "MOAR DAMAGE" wasn't the correct tool for almost everything these days.

Agreed. As I said I managed it with Ivara but I'd be remiss if I didn't say it required much more effort to accomplish it.

Edited June 14, 2020 by -CdG-Zilchy

[Zimzala]

5 hours ago, MorradiX said:

I'm just amazed that people think a couple of weeks is a long time  😄

Guess that makes me old  😉

This is my outlook as well.

I have no idea why players think that they have to acquire these things in a short time in a GaaS game of this nature.

If you don't like grindy games, then you picked the wrong one.

It's not a single player game expansion to be completed over the weekend, IMO.

I think hilarious people decide to burn themselves out over a single item and become obsessed to the point they count the runs they make to get it, they do it to themselves, their impatience is their mental undoing, IMO. Add in a completely wrong view on probability on top of that and many players have meltdowns.

Sure, I have played nodes/modes/etc. for a while and been disappointed to not get a drop, but I just go do other stuff and come back later, I just play the game and when the slot machine gives me new things, 'Yay!', a 2% drop chance is just like that.

Why obsess over it? Why compare it to work? It's a video game.

[Brosef42]

On 2020-06-13 at 2:28 AM, JackHargreav said:

Honestly I wouldn't have problem with the grind if this wouldn't have been an other kill as many as you can in a short time kind of challenge.

Now I have to use Mesa to have any chance for completing all 3 rounds.

Same. It's just seemed really lazy. Kill spawning enemies for several hours. How is this engaging in anyway?