The Helminth: Dev Workshop

[SpentCasings]

1 minute ago, Evhel said:

DE: Yo! We heard you want endgame content so get this, you spend S#&$tons for resources BUT! you can infuse an ability into another warframe!

Players and Tyl Regor: I'm very excited now!

DE: ah, but you can only pick Decoy because the rest is nerfed AF, enjoy!

You never disappoint me, DE!

Isnt the first post literally a tyl Regor meme? *looks...*

Edit: YEEEEEEEP

[Keyhound]

2 minutes ago, CopperBezel said:

Similar to the Scarlet Spear situation where everyone threw a fit that an oversight on Khora was removed, and so not only was it returned, but every ally heal in the game except poor Vazarin got a buff? Are we talking about the same Scarlet Spear situation? 

This is what I'm seeing in a lot of this discussion debate shouting match with occasional good points, that the discussion is entirely about the top five and bottom five abilities and not the 30 in the middle. If Roar is a 35% boost instead of a 50% one, it's not going to be the optimal choice for nearly as many frames. Nothing is saving Decoy and Air Burst, and I don't think DE intends to in this update. Those are abilities that need reworking on frames that haven't had remotely enough of it. There will be trash abilities in this system no matter what. 

It's also ignoring that Roar being weaker not on Rhino or Warcry being weaker not on Valkyr is not unique to these abilities that are getting limited forms in Helminth. Fire Blast is significantly weaker armor strip without Immolation, Ensnare has significantly less range without Whipclaw. Other abilities are already getting these kinds of penalties because their base functions depend on synergies in the originating frame's kit. 

khora wasnt an oversight, it was literally DE not reading what they themselves wrote in the ability description. it was an error due to ignorance. there were so trigger happy to remove something, that didnt realize they were playing themselves there.

calling it an "oversight" is just not even coming close to how much of a joke it was. it was DE basically saying "you cant do this, wait, did i say you could? oh, but you see, NOW im saying to cant, so we will let it slide for now, and then change it so you wont be able to do what we promissed you could do".

[Hayaies]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb (PS4)psykenmo:

Here is my take on all this as someone who loves this game and considers myself as a vet without having the vet mentality. The problem with everything in this game is loyal players feel like we're getting screwed as DE constantly delivers to the newer players... Why is that you ask....? Simply because experienced players are dropping out of this game left and right so what choice do they have but to make content available for newer players. It is extremely irritating but as all the vets vanish, so does the need to make content for them. I can't ever agree with a nerf,but I fully understand why they are doing this. As it is, we all know this isn't going to be the only nerf changes as new synergies will be found. We can expect nerfs on everything from this because the vast majority of people still playing are NEWER players. We all love this game, otherwise we wouldn't be speaking our minds about a game we don't care about. I do not support every decision made in this game, but do look forward to the new system and what new synergies I can make. Its really the community's fault for every nerf and yet still nobody sees that. You all make discussions and videos about what you plan on using for a new meta thinking that someone from DE isn't veiwing your content. They nerfed those specific abilities because everyone kept saying the same synergies that they plan on using. DE is making this system for us not to create an all powerful new meta, but more so that we find our own way so you can use what works for each player without breaking the game. I know people are bound to get salty from what I'm saying but really think and comprehend what I'm saying before you just start spewing a bunch of childish nonsense.

I second this, but DE still always manages to act in the most stupid manner imaginable, if they had given us this post like this from the beginning , nobody would have batted an eye, the point is that these nerfes are a kneejerk reaktion and the 15->8 lowering is nothing but an insult asking for complaints. Also anouching nerfs without numbers is the most typical and fishy thing we have come to expect from them

[bibmobello]

A lot of people with 0 messages in this thread, they must be all veterans discovering this forum for the first time.

[(PSN)Samurai_Deeper10]

I was about to buy Protea because I didn't want to farm her again, well not it's the other way round, in fact I'l, wait for all the HoD shenanigans to die down before I invest anymore time into the game. In other news, I'm excited for marvel Avengers.

[TheWhitterMatter]

1 minute ago, SpentCasings said:

Isnt the first post literally a tyl Regor meme? *looks...*

Edit: YEEEEEEEP

yes

[KurtisPrime]

Just now, CopperBezel said:

Similar to the Scarlet Spear situation where everyone threw a fit that an oversight on Khora was removed

They remove a aspect of her heal ( it was listed in the tip that it can heal objective)

 

Just now, CopperBezel said:

Fire Blast is significantly weaker armor strip without Immolation, Ensnare has significantly less range without Whipclaw. Other abilities are already getting these kinds of penalties because their base functions depend on synergies in the originating frame's kit. 

Fire blast is just a bad pick on DE part since it require another skill- Why would ensnare have less range? and Any of the skill they neft have synergies? They are just good skill.

[SpentCasings]

Just now, bibmobello said:

A lot of people with 0 messages in this thread, they must be all veterans discovering this forum for the first time.

or they heard this BS was here and came running. And hell came with them....

[XaoGarrent]

On 2020-08-12 at 1:27 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

AUGUST 19TH UPDATE:

Greetings, Tenno!

The launch of Heart of Deimos grows near, and we have some Helminth updates since we last posted! Below are 2 parts of updated/clarifying information that touches both Infused Warframe Abilities and the Helminth Segment acquisition.  

PART 1 - Changes to select Infused Warframe Abilities

Please keep in mind we’re still testing/playing around with the values for each, hence why the values are not present below:

The following only apply to Infused Warframe Abilities:

Rhino - Roar
Diminished Damage increase

Mirage - Eclipse
Diminished Damage increase and cap Damage Reduction 

Valkyr - Warcry
Attack speed increase reduced

Protea - Dispenser
Duration reduced

Nidus - Larva
Radius reduced

Wukong - Defy
Armor capped

Why do these Infused Warframe Abilities have these rules?
It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.

Thanks a ton, for a second there I thought I might actually reinstall the game! Glad to see Scott's disembodied nerf bat is still getting plenty of use around the office.

You still, to this very day, keep proving you don't understand your own game. Frankly, this whole system was a bad idea, but now it's going to be a bad idea, AND useless.

[LixSin]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)psykenmo said:

loyal players feel like we're getting screwed as DE constantly delivers to the newer players

I don't even think that's true. One of the most highly requested features in the playerbase is a proper New Player Experience, with better in-game information, better tutorials, better player progression, better story progression etc. pp.

Because while we know that won't affect us directly, it will result in more players sticking with the game, the players being better informed about the game's systems and as such an overall healthier game, which will also improve the experience for veterans.

The main criticism of Warframe was always how complex it is (or seems) and that there's no proper information in game. This could be alleviated by introducing all the new systems (including stuff like liches and maybe even open-worlds) a lot more gradually. Throwing another new system on top of that is pure madness.

Wanting to limit the options for new players isn't elitism. It's concern.

[_GoodLuck_]

Nerfing abilities in this way is not the solution. Abilities must not suffer decreased values. Instead of that buff weaker abilities to give the player a choice. I hope you guys revert these changes and find another way to balance "meta" abilities.

[CuChulainnWD]

46 minutes ago, 9Drade said:

 How did they not see that would easily be the #1 ability across the board?

One word: DE

[(PSN)NewYorkGameflow]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)psykenmo said:

Here is my take on all this as someone who loves this game and considers myself as a vet without having the vet mentality. The problem with everything in this game is loyal players feel like we're getting screwed as DE constantly delivers to the newer players... Why is that you ask....? Simply because experienced players are dropping out of this game left and right so what choice do they have but to make content available for newer players. It is extremely irritating but as all the vets vanish, so does the need to make content for them. I can't ever agree with a nerf,but I fully understand why they are doing this. As it is, we all know this isn't going to be the only nerf changes as new synergies will be found. We can expect nerfs on everything from this because the vast majority of people still playing are NEWER players. We all love this game, otherwise we wouldn't be speaking our minds about a game we don't care about. I do not support every decision made in this game, but do look forward to the new system and what new synergies I can make. Its really the community's fault for every nerf and yet still nobody sees that. You all make discussions and videos about what you plan on using for a new meta thinking that someone from DE isn't veiwing your content. They nerfed those specific abilities because everyone kept saying the same synergies that they plan on using. DE is making this system for us not to create an all powerful new meta, but more so that we find our own way so you can use what works for each player without breaking the game. I know people are bound to get salty from what I'm saying but really think and comprehend what I'm saying before you just start spewing a bunch of childish nonsense.

Nah, problem is whenever something gets popular, or meta, they nerf it instead of creating competition for it. That just keeps the game at an average level for fun, for end game, but the grind stays relentless. A lot of vets vanish because of this. In this particular case, the grind is really pointless. The whole system just became a "meh" option... way I see it anyway.

[Hallowieners]

20 hours ago, SuperSmog said:

They wont have the resources to do so xD

Oh yeah, I forgot about the initial resource requirement to actually subsume a frame. In that case they need to remove that. Still would be nice if new players could do something with their old frames to free them up, rather than just sell normally.

[SpentCasings]

Just now, CuChulainnWD said:

One word: DE

Sometimes i actually wonder how they have thier stuff modded...like..have yall actually WATCHED them play sometimes?

 

They arent that good...I think they are out of touch with the players because they probably dont PLAY this like we do...and im not one of those tryhard meta minmax players but even watching them go at it just makes me go "Ooof"  Perhaps this is why they make these headscratchingly bad decisions. 

 

Nothing against them personally tho...

[(XBOX)Verza0491]

On 2020-08-12 at 12:27 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

AUGUST 19TH UPDATE:

Greetings, Tenno!

The launch of Heart of Deimos grows near, and we have some Helminth updates since we last posted! Below are 2 parts of updated/clarifying information that touches both Infused Warframe Abilities and the Helminth Segment acquisition.  

PART 1 - Changes to select Infused Warframe Abilities

Please keep in mind we’re still testing/playing around with the values for each, hence why the values are not present below:

The following only apply to Infused Warframe Abilities:

Rhino - Roar
Diminished Damage increase

Mirage - Eclipse
Diminished Damage increase and cap Damage Reduction 

Valkyr - Warcry
Attack speed increase reduced

Protea - Dispenser
Duration reduced

Nidus - Larva
Radius reduced

Wukong - Defy
Armor capped

Why do these Infused Warframe Abilities have these rules?
It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.

PART 2 - Helminth Segment Acquisition

As already indicated in this Dev Workshops original post, the Helminth Segment is acquired in the Heart of Deimos in the Entrati Syndicate. To expand on that, this means you’ll need to progress within the Entrati Syndicate located within the Necralisk to obtain the Helminth Segment before you can start experimenting with everything Helminth. 

Without spoiling too much, the Helminth Segment is currently obtained in Rank 3 of the Entrati Syndicate. This reminder is simply to set expectations on what you’ll have access to upon logging into the Heart of Deimos. 

EDIT: We have also changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite of the Helminth Segment to 8 (was 15).

That’s all for now!

As a Mr22 i was expecting more for this new system or these changes to the abilities system, but first it comes the decision ti nerf something that not all players have tested, i understand the part that DE never have the ideal of doing something and that's the same excuse they use for every nerf (e.g xoris infinite combo) just as an example, then it comes that at the beginning the system of new changes were supposed to be only for mr15 above players which i think have a more common sense in which abilities are usefull to be subsumed and which to be changed... But NOW it comes that mr8 is the new requirement, which imho mr8 are less than experience players so following the ideas for DE mr8 is experience then mr15 is veteran so it means mr20+ are GODS? 🤔 Let me know if I'm accurate on this. But lowering the requirements make it nor worthly to be played. Now everyone will have the same warframes without the possibility of experience new game play for those who have more than 4, 5, 6 years here. Besides that they needed to nerf the only abilities that are intended to be subsumed as Roar and Warcry the other ones are useless too why would i need to throw sand to the enemies pnssies? 🤔 Super usefull!! 😎 

Now I'm only waiting for the new warframe and nothing else, this helminth changes lost all the interest for most players. 🙂

[(PSN)Hadrien2111]

Sorry but nerfing and lowering the mr requirement was a dumb move. Instead of nerfing the six abilities, you should have buffed the remaining ones if not change them completely for some of them. Let's be honest silence isn't ever gonna be used and nerfing the abilities that I was looking forward to subsuming doesn't make me want to use useless abilities more, it just makes me overall less excited for the update ! And also I think that you should put the mr 15 wall back because it's really useless to give players the opportinuty to mess with mixed abilities if they don't even properly understand how the base ones work. I am mr 16 and I still regularly look things up about the game and sometimes about some warframe's abilities so I can't even imagine what it must be like for someone that is at Mr 8 so seriously DE, just read the comments on the forums and the youtube comments and you'll see I am far from being the only one sharing this opinion. 

[(PSN)Samurai_Deeper10]

3 minutes ago, bibmobello said:

A lot of people with 0 messages in this thread, they must be all veterans discovering this forum for the first time.

I've played the game since launch on the ps4, Mr28, not that it matters. I generally come here for news on the game and not interested in controversy, but at some point you you gotta open your eyes. I have no idea who's in charge of making these decisions back to back, at least they didn't wait till we invested forma into our newly modified frames before they nerfed these abilities. Silver linings am I right..

[Synpai]

32 minutes ago, Casardis said:

Good informative post

Thanks a lot Casardis! Means a lot ❤️

[SpentCasings]

Just now, (PS4)Samurai_Deeper10 said:

I've played the game since launch on the ps4, Mr28, not that it matters. I generally come here for news on the game and not interested in controversy, but at some point you you gotta open your eyes. I have no idea who's in charge of making these decisions back to back, at least they didn't wait till we invested forma into our newly modified frames before they nerfed these abilities. Silver linings am I right..

No you arent. I forma'd several things in preperation and farmed 7 frames. Nidus, Protea, and harrow among them, some of THE HARDEST frames in the game to farm.  My time and my 2 weekends where a #*!%ing resource I wont get back...

[CopperBezel]

10 minutes ago, KurtisPrime said:

They remove a aspect of her heal ( it was listed in the tip that it can heal objective)

If you don't want to call that an oversight, fine. Describe that 10% of the "Scarlet Spear situation" however the hell you like. The other 90% is what matters. They removed a minor aspect of a strong ability, the rage machine exploded, and not only did they put it back, but everyone got buffs except a random nerf to Vazarin. Is that what you're going for now?

10 minutes ago, KurtisPrime said:

Fire blast is just a bad pick on DE part since it require another skill- Why would ensnare have less range? and Any of the skill they neft have synergies? They are just good skill.

Ensnare has less range without the synergy because it propagates at additional range from affected enemies when struck by Whipclaw. It is exactly the same situation as Fire Blast.

Now look at what I wrote, and look at what you wrote. The six abilities that are being limited do not depend on other abilities in the originating frames. They did not get any bonuses from ability synergies. They have, however, been reduced in effectiveness when used on other frames. There is no conceptual difference between these two situations. In either case, the ability is stronger on the originating frame than the Helminth version is. 

If you weren't complaining about Whipclaw, you should not be complaining about Roar.

[(PSN)Samurai_Deeper10]

4 minutes ago, Hallowieners said:

Oh yeah, I forgot about the initial resource requirement to actually subsume a frame. In that case they need to remove that. Still would be nice if new players could do something with their old frames to free them up, rather than just sell normally.

Don't get your hopes up, they will probably nerf the resources for new players knowing DE

[Hayaies]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb (XB1)Verza0491:

As a Mr22 i was expecting more for this new system or these changes to the abilities system, but first it comes the decision ti nerf something that not all players have tested, i understand the part that DE never have the ideal of doing something and that's the same excuse they use for every nerf (e.g xoris infinite combo) just as an example, then it comes that at the beginning the system of new changes were supposed to be only for mr15 above players which i think have a more common sense in which abilities are usefull to be subsumed and which to be changed... But NOW it comes that mr8 is the new requirement, which imho mr8 are less than experience players so following the ideas for DE mr8 is experience then mr15 is veteran so it means mr20+ are GODS? 🤔 Let me know if I'm accurate on this. But lowering the requirements make it nor worthly to be played. Now everyone will have the same warframes without the possibility of experience new game play for those who have more than 4, 5, 6 years here. Besides that they needed to nerf the only abilities that are intended to be subsumed as Roar and Warcry the other ones are useless too why would i need to throw sand to the enemies pnssies? 🤔 Super usefull!! 😎 

Now I'm only waiting for the new warframe and nothing else, this helminth changes lost all the interest for most players. 🙂

I mean, calling em god would be funny if not half of them still were to incompetent to finish a single round of index

[LixSin]

1 hour ago, bibmobello said:

A lot of people with 0 messages in this thread, they must be all veterans discovering this forum for the first time.

Yes, this was such a bad decision on DE's part that a lot of people who never cared about the forum before are now for the first time posting here to voice their objection to these changes.

[SpentCasings]

1 minute ago, CopperBezel said:

If you don't want to call that an oversight, fine. Describe that 10% of the "Scarlet Spear situation" however the hell you like. The other 90% is what matters. They removed a minor aspect of a strong ability, the rage machine exploded, and everyone got buffs except a random nerf to Vazarin. Is that what you're going for now?

Ensnare has less range without the synergy because it propagates at additional range from affected enemies when struck by Whipclaw. It is exactly the same situation as Fire Blast.

Now look at what I wrote, and look at what you wrote. The six abilities that are being limited do not depend on other abilities in the originating frames. They did not get any bonuses from ability synergies. They have, however, been reduced in effectiveness when used on other frames. There is no conceptual difference between these two situations. In either case, the ability is stronger on the originating frame than the Helminth version is. 

If you weren't complaining about Whipclaw, you should not be complaining about Roar.

Never seen that because my whipclaw usually one hits everything???!!