CheaseDragon Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 4 minutes ago, Aldain said: Just like that we're back to the self-damage debates of old. Yea, I know, I know. Guilty as charged I guess 😐. it just seems odd to implement this right after removing self damage. I can understand if they want self damage to have a place, but with years of discussion to draw on I'd hope they'd be mindful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lichformed Posted August 27, 2020 Author Share Posted August 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said: You can play a game for years and still be bad at it. Not sure why you think that would matter. They added a boss fight that has mechanics and actually isn't a "gear check" (which is just another empty platitude buzz word) and yet here you are, still. You had people saying it was no problem at all, so something is clearly different between you and them. Okay last one lol you're persistent but I don't want to derail too much, for one I have played for years and I could argue I'm pretty qualified to talk about how casual Warframe is and always has been, the only thing hardcore has always been how much time you were willing to give up to the grind, absolutely no skill required. And I have argued all of them and tried to state it in as many ways as I can to make my point clear, it does not matter how much support one has before an argument but after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldain Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 5 minutes ago, CheaseDragon said: Yea, I know, I know. Guilty as charged I guess 😐. it just seems odd to implement this right after removing self damage. I can understand if they want self damage to have a place, but with years of discussion to draw on I'd hope they'd be mindful. Personally it has always been the amount and not the existence of self damage that bothered me as well. The problem in this instance seems more to be the lack of a Telegraph and lack of a chance to avoid it if you do make a mistake (it should be hard to avoid, but doable without needing an immunity button imo). But of course we're just going to have people come in calling everyone a casual and not wonder if the fight may possibly have an issue with the A.I. using the reflectors too much and with no warning, which only perpetuates the argument even louder and usually ends with a result that makes nobody happy because nobody could compromise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colyeses Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 13 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said: You had people saying it was no problem at all, so something is clearly different between you and them. Honeydoodle, if you think there's -any- consistency in how bosses behave in Warframe, you clearly don't have enough playtime in this game to act as smarmy as you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lichformed Posted August 27, 2020 Author Share Posted August 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, Colyeses said: Honeydoodle, if you think there's -any- consistency in how bosses behave in Warframe, you clearly don't have enough playtime in this game to act as smarmy as you do. This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainMinty Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 6 hours ago, Lichformed said: Damage reflection, DO NOT USE IT I don't want to kill or be killed by my squadmates nor do I want to be instakilled by a badly timed shot In a previous thread about killing the Necramech I said things were fine and that I handled it nicely with a smeeta and a Vectis Prime. Turns out I was just obscenely lucky my first six vault runs and the thing didn't activate its shields. The second it did when I did a run today, I exploded the second I shot it. I had no bloody clue why. This happened three more times before I realized it was a damage reflection. I figured, hey, it'd be okay, I'll just wait it out. Oh wait, I gotta wait half a minute for that, and by then his arms are back on. Noi. Just no. This fight actually sucks. It's either cheese it so you don't deal with the mechanic, or suffer because the mechanic sucks. Who though damage reflect was okay? We have absurdly high amounts of damage and they're gonna throw in something that is essentially guaranteed to oneshot us? After people spent ages complaining about how Liches did it? I don't like playing the waiting game. It's exactly why I never fight Ruk. An invulnerable target that briefly reveals their weakpoint is just plain silly. There's no interaction from me here, I'm just pointing my gun at them waiting for them to decide to make themselves vulnerable. Damage reflection is a bad mechanic when damage itself is utterly imbalanced in regards to the player versus the enemies. It's awful here, as my health pool nowhere near matches the insane amount of damage I can put out in a single shot. And if you're going to go with reflection, NEVER MAKE THE REFLECTOR INVULNERABLE. God this is stupid design. Gotta go edit my other post now because this garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Madurai-Prime Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 15 minutes ago, Colyeses said: Honeydoodle, if you think there's -any- consistency in how bosses behave in Warframe, you clearly don't have enough playtime in this game to act as smarmy as you do. That's why I read and take into account the feedback of others that have.....you're not the only vet on here, honeydoodle. Saying "get rid of something" after 3 days is different than "how can we improve this". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheaseDragon Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 19 minutes ago, Aldain said: Personally it has always been the amount and not the existence of self damage that bothered me as well. The problem in this instance seems more to be the lack of a Telegraph and lack of a chance to avoid it if you do make a mistake (it should be hard to avoid, but doable without needing an immunity button imo). But of course we're just going to have people come in calling everyone a casual and not wonder if the fight may possibly have an issue with the A.I. using the reflectors too much and with no warning, which only perpetuates the argument even louder and usually ends with a result that makes nobody happy because nobody could compromise. Agreed. I don't want to 'throw the baby out with the bathwater'; the mechanic has potential. Its just that the current iteration is a bit janky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)yokai1235 Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 already exists enemies that reflects damage juggernaut and Grineer warden and bursas also the sentient with the big shild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldain Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 Just now, CheaseDragon said: Its just that the current iteration is a bit janky. If I had a plat for every time that was the case in Warframe I'd be able to buy half the Tennogen offerings on Switch 😆. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheaseDragon Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 Just now, Aldain said: If I had a plat for every time that was the case in Warframe I'd be able to buy half the Tennogen offerings on Switch 😆. Hey, the jank is half the fun when its not making you kill yourself 😆 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldain Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 Just now, CheaseDragon said: Hey, the jank is half the fun when its not making you kill yourself 😆 Or when the A.I. bugs out and decides it is going to stay invulnerable, I've had that happen with Lech Kril before, shot a coolant tube, and he spent a solid 7 minutes not properly opening himself up to damage and just shooting his Gorgon even when I was standing next to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karonuva Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 Personally I wouldn't mind the dmg reflection if it actually was properly telegraphed and warned about beforehand, and there was some reasonable counterplay. EDIT: Actually no. This awful damage reflection can f*** off entirely. As it stands right now you wouldn't have ANY idea it's even a thing. AND EVEN without reflection, the spammy invulnerability ability is just awful. There's no counterplay, you're just standing around wasting time just hoping the AI decides to not use the ability for once Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREF_TM Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 10 minutes ago, CephKaron said: here's no counterplay, you're just standing around wasting time just hoping the AI decides to not use the ability for once From what i understand, it works the same way your necramech's 2 does, just with beefier numbers, so their (designers') idea must've been for you to shoot the shield in order to break the shield prematurely. Except you cannot shoot it, because there's a risk of your damage being randomly redirected right back at you, ignoring your shield gating and almost certainly one-shotting you unless your frame has tons of DR/ehp and/or 'escape death' type ability/mods. Paired with the necramech itself being a weak spot only fiesta, fighting these things is very inconsitent, and very annoying because of that. Welp, at least they can't use siege mode (4), that would've been a complete disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadyadie Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 When GGG and DE learn from each other it's not meant to the be the bad bits! (As someone who's been playing a Baronmancer in the current POE league, and sometimes doesn't pay attention to map mods, and gets a reflect map, and has to scream "ABORT! ABORT!" after the zomboys have all killed themselves in 2 seconds, I feel you...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadoon Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 On 2020-08-27 at 8:57 AM, (PS4)yokai1235 said: already exists enemies that reflects damage juggernaut and Grineer warden and bursas also the sentient with the big shild Who told you those reflect damage? Juggs, wardens, and bursas have no damage reflection capability. And I wouldn't even know what sentient you are referring to because none of the wiki pages even refer to damage reflection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)yokai1235 Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 14 minutes ago, Deadoon said: Who told you those reflect damage? Juggs, wardens, and bursas have no damage reflection capability. And I wouldn't even know what sentient you are referring to because none of the wiki pages even refer to damage reflection. probably is categorized as deflecting damage and still doubt me go to the simulacron turn on the ai and shot at then and only exists one sentient with a massive shild kiddo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)guzmantt1977 Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 On 2020-08-27 at 4:45 AM, Lichformed said: I just went from 2k shields 1k health on Harrow down to 350-ish hp and a radiation proc. Meaning I can effectively CC and kill my whole squad with my next headshot from my Tombfinger if I played with others. damage reflection is not good, at all, in any game. Good to know. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karonuva Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 I just lost all my rewards because of this worthless damage reflection. How the hell is this the live build? Like seriously, did they even playtest this? Because frankly, it doesn't seem like it. One mission and it's so painfully obvious the inconsistent damage reflection needs to be removed and the invulnerability shield made more clear how to counter it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)yokai1235 Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 1 minute ago, CephKaron said: I just lost all my rewards because of this worthless damage reflection. How the hell is this the live build? Like seriously, did they even playtest this? Because frankly, it doesn't seem like it. One mission and it's so painfully obvious the inconsistent damage reflection needs to be removed and the invulnerability shield made more clear how to counter it. the health bar turns grey theres a energy vortex and the necromech start shooting lighting like a tesla globe if you can't see that you need to go have exam you're sight because this a serious case of blindness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karonuva Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, (PS4)yokai1235 said: the health bar turns grey theres a energy vortex and the necromech start shooting lighting like a tesla globe if you can't see that you need to go have exam you're sight because this a serious case of blindness The only one needing of an eye exam is you, i said IT NEEDS TO BE MORE OBVIOUS HOW TO COUNTER IT. I'm painfully aware when there's a god damn invulnerability shield up because it's ALWAYS UP. THATS THE PROBLEM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)yokai1235 Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 11 minutes ago, CephKaron said: The only one needing of an eye exam is you, i said IT NEEDS TO BE MORE OBVIOUS HOW TO COUNTER IT. I'm painfully aware when there's a god damn invulnerability shield up because it's ALWAYS UP. THATS THE PROBLEM. yeah they should have a cool down instead of being energy based like warframe and i just realized those the necromech get magnetic procs ? because if does we just discovered a counter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)AyinDygra Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 Damage reflection is a horrible mechanic in a game like this. (in most games, really.) This is definitely one of those features they shouldn't have copied from GGG (if they took inspiration from them for it.) PoE suffers greatly from it, in my experience, thus always playing Totem guys, when I did play (I quit shortly after starting Warframe), just to avoid reflect (and its sibling effect: corrupted blood.) I hate reflect with a passion. No level of "telegraphing" and prompts will make it tolerable for me. The only reasonable method of dealing with it for me, has been bringing the Ignis flamethrower, since it does damage in tiny increments over time, so by the time I notice I'm getting reflect damage, I can stop shooting before I kill myself. And the Ignis has punch-through and an AoE (not sure which is helping the most in hitting weakspots and stuff), which is modded for Corrosive and Heat, and is melting the Necromechs safely, for the time being. It's much better than one-shotting myself out of the blue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BladeDphoenix Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 Quote Also can we talk about Necramech CC immunity, I do all content on Harrow and Necramechs have one thing that makes soloing them so annoying, Just because youre bad at the game doesnt mean it has to be changed to suit your tastes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karonuva Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 14 hours ago, BladeDphoenix said: Just because youre bad at the game doesnt mean it has to be changed to suit your tastes Or maybe the Necramech fight is still janky af even if someone isn't XxXEliteGamer69XxX? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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