How to make warframe missions interesting

[(XBOX)AAR24814]

A suggestion would be to mix up various missions into a single mission. For example, do 4 conduits of disruption then next stage would be survival for 10 minutes then do exterminate of certain number of enemies and finally rescue a prisoner. Don't need to be endless but this will add a variety for the players. 

For challenging stuff, limit usage of certain abilities on warframes like sanctuary onslaught. 

I am not sure on whether mixing factions will help but could be interesting to see how every level brings different factions into gameplay. 

 

[TARINunit9]

So, modeled after bounties or modeled after the old raids?

[vanaukas]

5 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

So, modeled after bounties or modeled after the old raids?

+ https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Assault

[nslay]

I think Saturn Mobile Defense has this already... you defend 2 consoles being hacked, then Lotus discovers an Orokin Artifact that you have to defend. It's not 10 minutes to do the Mobile Defense Phase or the Defense phase... but who wants that? They're both horribly boring game modes!

[Kaotyke]

2 minutes ago, nslay said:

I think Saturn Mobile Defense has this already... you defend 2 consoles being hacked, then Lotus discovers an Orokin Artifact that you have to defend. It's not 10 minutes to do the Mobile Defense Phase or the Defense phase... but who wants that? They're both horribly boring game modes!

But something complex is not efficient!

[nslay]

2 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

But something complex is not efficient!

It depends what you're doing... sometimes you don't need to care about being efficient because you have the rewards already and you just like the game mode. I like Void Sabotage a lot! I guess that's another example: Sabotage Caches + Mobile Defense + Assassination.

[PhiThagRaid]

1 hour ago, nslay said:

I think Saturn Mobile Defense has this already... you defend 2 consoles being hacked, then Lotus discovers an Orokin Artifact that you have to defend. It's not 10 minutes to do the Mobile Defense Phase or the Defense phase... but who wants that? They're both horribly boring game modes!

I never saw this as a change in gameplay, you go from mobile defense to a defense, so... mobile defense.

If they converted Sorties into one continuous mission instead of the 3 we have now, that would seem quite similar to what you are suggesting in the OP. This does sound nice, but obviously has it's limitations with the structure of tilesets. If tilesets were 100% dynamic(generated as you played) that could possibly allow this, otherwise Mobile defense, rescue or spy sections would have to always spawn and stay the same in an endless run.

1 hour ago, nslay said:

It depends what you're doing... sometimes you don't need to care about being efficient because you have the rewards already and you just like the game mode. I like Void Sabotage a lot! I guess that's another example: Sabotage Caches + Mobile Defense + Assassination.

Void sabotage does have some nice mission diversity. Sabotage in general has a lot more mission diversity. Most other missions are quite similar no matter the tileset you are playing on. Capture is always Capture, Rescue is always Rescue, Defense is always Defense, the list goes on. Sabotage on the other hand sees you doing a lot more unique things on different tilesets, Mars is a console insertion and an explosion, Jupiter has destruction then interception, void has a mobile defense then assassination(as you've said).

If we had endless mission generation now that the next console gen is coming out, that could be quite fun.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

mixing game modes is fine IMO, but if you make it mandatory, you're inevitably going to butt heads with the meta speedrunning crowd. optional side objectives that give extra rewards would be welcome though.

[Loza03]

The issue lies in the fact that Warframe's present gameplay is counter-intuitive to complexity. Most of our 'best' Warframes are simple, easy ways to solve any problem, without any meaningful limiting factor on how much they can be used.

At the end of the day, almost any mission can be completed by walking into the room as Mesa, doing peacemaker things, and then stepping over the corpses of the fallen enemies to do what you needed to do (if the corpses weren't that already). Likewise, Inaros or other tankframes don't need to worry about enemies posing a threat to them, meaning that it's just 'walk from point A to point B to point C and however many more there are' and he's good. Same with most invisible frames. CC frames have the most 'complex' path in that they need to put down their abilities and then shoot all the helpless enemies, but that's not exactly revolutionary.

Warframe's too casual right now to support anything more complex and interesting.

[nslay]

3 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

The issue lies in the fact that Warframe's present gameplay is counter-intuitive to complexity. Most of our 'best' Warframes are simple, easy ways to solve any problem, without any meaningful limiting factor on how much they can be used.

At the end of the day, almost any mission can be completed by walking into the room as Mesa, doing peacemaker things, and then stepping over the corpses of the fallen enemies to do what you needed to do (if the corpses weren't that already). Likewise, Inaros or other tankframes don't need to worry about enemies posing a threat to them, meaning that it's just 'walk from point A to point B to point C and however many more there are' and he's good. Same with most invisible frames. CC frames have the most 'complex' path in that they need to put down their abilities and then shoot all the helpless enemies, but that's not exactly revolutionary.

Warframe's too casual right now to support anything more complex and interesting.

I think Energizing Dash needs to be toned down and Energy Pads given the Steel Path cooldown treatment. Man, I had a blast with Naramon Khora in select Steel Path missions even before the Helminth system (Dispensary makes everything a bit more trivial for her though!). I had to mod for efficiency, use Equilibrium, mod pets with Synth mods, use syndicate weapons with +energy... and only used Energy Pads in dire situations (or in the case of ESO, rely on the syndicate weapon to give me energy after 1000 affinity!).

Yeah, like I said, Dispensary makes things a bit more trivial. But you can even mess that up by not noticing a Parasitic/Energy Leech Eximus units nearby. But yeah... seriously, Energizing Dash makes everything way too trivial with Warframe powers. And that's why players can cast and recast and channel Peacemaker for a very long time! Because Energy is easy to get on demand and completely worthless as a result... it's so worthless that nobody really cares about the negatives of, for example, Blind Rage.

[Loza03]

3 minutes ago, nslay said:

I think Energizing Dash needs to be toned down and Energy Pads given the Steel Path cooldown treatment. Man, I had a blast with Naramon Khora in select Steel Path missions even before the Helminth system (Dispensary makes everything a bit more trivial for her though!). I had to mod for efficiency, use Equilibrium, mod pets with Synth mods, use syndicate weapons with +energy... and only used Energy Pads in dire situations (or in the case of ESO, rely on the syndicate weapon to give me energy after 1000 affinity!).

Yeah, like I said, Dispensary makes things a bit more trivial. But you can even mess that up by not noticing a Parasitic/Energy Leech Eximus units nearby. But yeah... seriously, Energizing Dash makes everything way too trivial with Warframe powers. And that's why players can cast and recast and channel Peacemaker for a very long time! Because Energy is easy to get on demand and completely worthless as a result... it's so worthless that nobody really cares about the negatives of, for example, Blind Rage.

Personally, I think Warframe's energy system as a whole needs some addressing. The current best options are way too effective for how easy they are, but the converse isn't that great either IMO. Energy Orbs are RNG - you can't plan or play around it.  Without Energise, the amount they give is paltry for powers to be considered as something a player has reliable access to - with it, well, it's the same deal as with Zenurik.

I'd personally like to see pretty much all arsenal-managed energy systems reduced in effectiveness, even support abilities like Energy Vampire, and instead make energy orb drops something in the player's own control. Maybe have good performance with weapons drop energy orbs - big multi-kills with an explosive weapon? That's some energy. Consistent headshots with a sniper? That's some energy. Sustained damage with an auto-rifle? Energy. I'd only exclude Melee weapons from this, using the logic that they don't cost any resources (i.e. Ammo) so restoring resources should be off the table for them. Furthermore, the same logic applies to abilities (depending on how ability-focused the frame is). Low-power abilities like fireball or shock can restore energy, either directly or by magnifying other energy sources. Making energy something the player gets from engaging with the gameplay, rather than just reaching the point where they can spam as many pizzas as they want is how you make the game less spammy.

[nslay]

5 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Personally, I think Warframe's energy system as a whole needs some addressing. The current best options are way too effective for how easy they are, but the converse isn't that great either IMO. Energy Orbs are RNG - you can't plan or play around it.  Without Energise, the amount they give is paltry for powers to be considered as something a player has reliable access to - with it, well, it's the same deal as with Zenurik.

You really can do it well without Zenurik and Energy Pads. I made two videos with Naramon Khora... one of 8 rounds of solo ESO and the other of a Steel Path Hydron Defense without Dispensary. I also did it without Zenurik or Energy Pads in the recent Nightwave 30 minute Kuva Survival (I did mine in Steel Path). You can do this mostly through Health Orbs which are rendered less RNG than Energy Orbs through the Synth Mods. It looks easy and comfortable... but that build has 3 sets of energy redunancies (later 4 with Dispensary) and its modded for Efficiency.  But man, it is fun! But yeah... have to be careful about spending 40 energy on Strangledome (I actually have to watch the Energy bar).

While it works amazingly well for Khora... haven't figured out a good way to make this work nicely on other frames.

[Loza03]

1 minute ago, nslay said:

You really can do it well without Zenurik and Energy Pads. I made two videos with Naramon Khora... one of 8 rounds of solo ESO and the other of a Steel Path Hydron Defense without Dispensary. I also did it without Zenurik or Energy Pads in the recent Nightwave 30 minute Kuva Survival (I did mine in Steel Path). You can do this mostly through Health Orbs which are rendered less RNG than Energy Orbs through the Synth Mods. It looks easy and comfortable... but that build has 3 sets of energy redunancies (later 4 with Dispensary) and its modded for Efficiency.  But man, it is fun! But yeah... have to be careful about spending 40 energy on Strangledome (I actually have to watch the Energy bar).

While it works amazingly well for Khora... haven't figured out a good way to make this work nicely on other frames.

Perhaps, yeah. Consistency is better though, especially since if this was a design philosophy the game followed, it'd give a lot more meaning to a lot more content. More weapons would be viable, you'd be encouraged to use more of your loadout (bringing both weapons good for restoring energy and good for raw damage), more frames could exist within the same niche as 'consistently good' and 'variably great' could both be valuable options, and at the end of the day, more skill and depth means that the game is going to remain fun and interesting for longer.

[Xylena_Lazarow]

7 minutes ago, nslay said:

While it works amazingly well for Khora... haven't figured out a good way to make this work nicely on other frames.

I've found Naramon+Energize works well on pretty much everything.

[nslay]

9 minutes ago, Xylena_Lazarow said:

I've found Naramon+Energize works well on pretty much everything.

Arcane Energize isn't enough by itself... especially not for Khora which spams Whipclaw.

[Xylena_Lazarow]

2 minutes ago, nslay said:

Arcane Energize isn't enough by itself... especially not for Khora which spams Whipclaw.

Agree about Khora, she is one of the few that needs more, you mentioned other frames and I'm just saying Energize does work nicely on most. I do generally include additional support from efficiency mods and/or Dethcube (if the frame can realistically protect it). There are a number of other niche options too, like the Synth/Equilibrium combo you mentioned, Exodia Brave heavy attack Zaws, Rage/Adrenaline and Flow mods, infused Dispensary (and a few other Helminth abilities if you have space for the orb augments). Fine tuning your energy economy in this game is actually pretty interesting once you have Energize, but with Energize so difficult to obtain, most players either have no energy at all, or have forgotten what energy is thanks to Zenurik.

[nslay]

6 minutes ago, Xylena_Lazarow said:

Agree about Khora, she is one of the few that needs more, you mentioned other frames and I'm just saying Energize does work nicely on most. I do generally include additional support from efficiency mods and/or Dethcube (if the frame can realistically protect it). There are a number of other niche options too, like the Synth/Equilibrium combo you mentioned, Exodia Brave heavy attack Zaws, Rage/Adrenaline and Flow mods, infused Dispensary (and a few other Helminth abilities if you have space for the orb augments). Fine tuning your energy economy in this game is actually pretty interesting once you have Energize, but with Energize so difficult to obtain, most players either have no energy at all, or have forgotten what energy is thanks to Zenurik.

Ah, yes. You're right. Now Dethcube is one I haven't tried yet!

Hopefully DE makes Scarlet Spear more regular because Arcane Energize can be had relatively easily in that event. Just need to know how it works to get the most points in those timed phases...

[CephalonCarnage]

3 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

mixing game modes is fine IMO, but if you make it mandatory, you're inevitably going to butt heads with the meta speedrunning crowd. optional side objectives that give extra rewards would be welcome though.

There's an idea. And one for the syndicates, instead of the death squads turning up, there can be a chance that the mission you're in also has a couple of syndicate operatives somewhere that "could do with some help", with rewards for finding and leading them to an extraction point.

We already have side missions sometimes; finding kuria or other treasure, storage caches, or even simaris scanning.

[UUDDLRLRBA_START]

5 hours ago, Loza03 said:

At the end of the day, almost any mission can be completed by walking into the room as Mesa, doing peacemaker things, and then stepping over the corpses of the fallen enemies to do what you needed to do (if the corpses weren't that already).

Spy missions say, "Hi."

[Leyers_of_facade]

I think repetition is the problem, making a brand new game mode or mash together several existing one might feel fun and fresh for the first few runs but when you are expected to run it hundreds of times to "complete" whatever thing you are trying to grind, it will get dull and disgusting real quick.

Take a look at railjack, its fun and amazing when you just started, not so much when you try to grind out intrinsics (I did my grind during SS, the intensive and immersive mesa gameplay made my wrist hurt, and I am beyond burn out on that part of the game)

Take a look at liches, its fun and interesting for the first few ones you did, not so much when you are trying to get all weapons near the end of it

Take a look at deimos, its.... uh...., its not even fun and interesting, it was just an amalgamation of bug, grind and frustration. I would rather camp a room in steel path survival

 

The problem lies in that it is hard to make content that remains fun if one is expected to repeatedly run it an absurd amount of time to grind it out. Its even worse when the mission isn't even fun in the case for deimos (especially the bounties, and them being the only way to farm standing at a reasonable pace). Anyway, until they figure out that 100 hours of grind isn't 100 hours of content, we won't be seeing much fun and interesting missions.

[Loza03]

5 hours ago, UUDDLRLRBA_START said:

Spy missions say, "Hi."

One mission type out of twenty three being the exception - and then only partly, since most spy vaults can be brute-forced with this although you won't get as much affinity - is not a well-balanced game.