Update 29.10.0: New Railjack Equipment Feedback Megathread (Read First Post!)

[vmpn]

Fully ranked avionics got converted to half ranked mods equivalents. 

Please fix.

Thank you

[Namarien]

Being able to forge to increase how much of an item your ship can store is interesting, but not intuitive. I saw dome charges 2/2 and assumed that was it. But, seemingly we can keep upgrading it? (e.g. Took mine up to six).

 

Doesn't this discourage hopping on for one mission if you have to invest resources to get your railjack to have decent capacity e every time you head out?

[Zambad]

Searching for "Railjack" on the mod station should show the new Railjack mods. Currently, it finds nothing. Yes, they have their own tab, but wanting to find just the Railjack aura mods from the aura tab would be useful, for example.

[PunkyTone]

Restore the payload option , the energy option seems to be either bugged or very slow, going into a mission not being fully loaded up is just dumb. 

[minininja77]

6 minutes ago, PunkyTone said:

Restore the payload option , the energy option seems to be either bugged or very slow, going into a mission not being fully loaded up is just dumb. 

"Going into combat let me unload me ship of everything" said no one ever

[VisionAndVoice]

57 minutes ago, DoomFruit said:

Well, looks like Hildryn is actually quite a crappy choice for a pilot, since the "increasing costs" mechanic takes ABSOLUTELY FOREVER to come back down to normal. And since the #3 ability costs 150 energy... at the absolute minimum, this rules out a lot of frames or builds. Want to use Valkyr in a maximum armour tank build? No spaceship abilities for you. Nidus (who doesn't benefit from large energy reserves)? No abilities. The same goes for any other frame which doesn't rely on mass spellcasting spam.

I really do not understand why a 100 metre spaceship relies on a tiny little manthing for its energy. It's got a reactor of its own.

Not only does this not make sense from an internal consistency perspective, it's also telling the players that they must build for frames with high energy storage. You've put a bunch of arbitrary constraints on how they build their frame which are completely nonsensical. If I want to use Ash or Nekros on a ship, I'm actively gimping myself and there's no good reason why this should be the case.

If you're going to have the giant spaceship rely solely on a warframe to power its missile swarms, then why don't you just let us make ten Ivaras, give them energy siphons and flows and shove them in the cargo hold to act as batteries.

Came here to post similar sentiments, thankfully this poster already did this for me and in a much less crass manner than I had in mind.

Using frame's energy to fuel RJ abilities is a bad idea on many levels. Bring flux back.

[Hitical-Crit]

52 minutes ago, Namarien said:

Being able to forge to increase how much of an item your ship can store is interesting, but not intuitive. I saw dome charges 2/2 and assumed that was it. But, seemingly we can keep upgrading it? (e.g. Took mine up to six).

 

Doesn't this discourage hopping on for one mission if you have to invest resources to get your railjack to have decent capacity e every time you head out?

Be careful about that. I was sitting at 12/12 and I dropped back down to 2/2 entering a mission. Not sure what caused it.

[Namarien]

8 minutes ago, Hitical-Crit said:

Be careful about that. I was sitting at 12/12 and I dropped back down to 2/2 entering a mission. Not sure what caused it.

Really? I've gotta wonder if this is even an intentional feature at this point.

[RhibeRhino]

I had voiced my concerns about the switches to endo and energy and.... well... I'm sad to say I was right.

 

I had a fully maxed out RJ (All Avionics maxed, all weapons and equipment maxed for all manufacturers), and now, I can't use more than 2 battle avionics before needing energy (Rhino P w/ Primed Flow), I need to Forma yet another thing, I had, even with the Tier 3 early adopter rewards, and the refunds, to spend 7M credits and about 90k Endo to... get my avionics where they used to be.

Also, my RJ had great survivability, and now has the strength of wet cardboard, since, even in the T3 rewards, we did not even get a Mk1 Plating...

 

So to sum up :

Added credit cost + More endo than Dirac to level up avionics => No, please don't. If we got a 1:1 Endo to Dirac conversion, the costs should be identical.

 

Plexus needing Forma (And avionics drain Increase) => Definitely not. That endangers what was an otherwise great opportunity for build diversity, since everything went everywhere, and given the increase in costs, and decrease in capacity, we HAVE to spend formas where we did not need to before.

 

The energy economy is terrible and will create a meta with only 3 or 4 Energy Olympic pools frames to take in RJ, where before we could literally take any frame, since the energy was tied to the ship. Even with personal energy, I would GLADLY have Flux energy tied to my Plexus instead of my frame (Plus, as some people mentioned, we have a reactor, why are we using our frames?)

And given the drop rates of Platings, T3 rewards should have AT LEAST included a Sigma MkIII Plating or something....

Also for an update that was supposed to simplify the mode to make it accessible, the cost of entry might have been reduced, but the added investment far outweighs any reduction. The new personal resource systems and the crafting are extremely confusing, and the energy cost to battle avionics will inevitably bring a new meta with a few frames, something you have been trying to eliminate from missions for a long time. Also, one last time for good measure, We. do. not. want. formas. in. every. single. part. of. the. game.

 

Apart from a few progression breaking (known) bugs, and what I pointed out here, I'm really happy about the update

[Raze4573]

1. Plexus opinion - Avionics Grid was superior in every aspect and made railjack more than another bar to fill out till it says Max Rank.
2. The new avionic mods are terrible IMHO, I don't feel like it requires some work and thinking. Once again, as with all mod setups its just "Slap the HP/Shields/Damage mod on and you're done".
3. Armaments and changes? Really? I'm still running Zetki Apoc MK2 and the new turrets don't seem important in any way. It's nice to have a choice but won't be long till someone finds the new meta that will let us obliterate everything. Devs I adore you but this isn't Elite: Dangerous, we don't need the same amount of railjack weapons as Tenno weapons. Other changes that got introduced like the damage types are basically cosmetic, text changed and that's all. There was no sensible reason to rename railjack damage types aside making railjack simplified for the sake of being simplified.
4. Battle mods, eh, I miss old Tether, I know it made things easy but once I had it maxed and equipped on a battlecruiser of a railjack, it felt appropriate. Now it feels lackluster.
5. Hull should've been part of railjack from the beginning. What you shouldn't have done is basically nerf every railjack's stats to push a new item. Spending hours on finding all the right parts for my ship and being proud of my Jumping Buzzard's ability to NOT have an explosive decompression event was amazing. Then after the update I see the stats were cut to one third of what what they were. Gee, really makes me happy about that.

[M1S02002]

so, my first reaction to the new railjack was like: hey finally they are getting things done, like finally railjack is getting a revision, it was getting little bit boring

now here's my review: it sucks, i literally wasted so many hours to build this worthless piece of junk, i might as well fuse all the mods for railjack and be done with it forever

that was just a tl;dr now for the in-dept reason:

Plexus system

you had to ruin it, did you? before this update, the mod system for railjack was great, it was different, and complex, i don't lie that there weren't much difference in the builds but it was still much better than now, not only you made the mods upgrade with endo which is one of the most difficult things to farm in the game, and used in the actual main game, also the fact you have to throw formas at the ship, nope, that's horrible.

Energy instead of flux

NOPE, the f- is wrong with you, HOW IS USING ENERGY BETTER?

you use up ALL your energy every avionics you use, so, basically now you either got a protea or zenurik dash every 3 seconds, not only that, new players, and even new railjackers will have to face the fact that they gotta mod THEIR WARFRAME SPECIFICALLY for the railjack, dude you got a giant space ship, and ur telling me that that it work with a pedals?
like a lot of people said, you HAVE a reactor in the ship, why don't you use it

Final notes

here is it, you made it DE like always you ruin nice things, you did absolutely nothing we asked for and you removed one of the best way to farm experience on necramechs and frames, not only that, you removed the favorite mission of people (F in chat for Gian Point) and made a cool feature in the game complitely worthless, there were so many things that you could have done to make the railjack better, you f-ed up in the absolutely worse way possible, also the reason about why i don't talk about defense mission is that there is already enough talking about it in here, but since we are at the final notes, defense missions are just regular defense mission but worse, much worse, enemies spawn slower, there are less enemies on the map, the only good thing is that you can use a necramech

 

 

[MunsuLight]

Il y a 4 heures, lewkaj a dit :

Battle/Tactical abilities will now be fueled by Warframe energy

It was said hundred times it's gonna be bad, and it is.

I have under 200 energy on most of the frames i use. 'super' battle avionics cost 200 energy. With 25% cost reduction from intrinsics i am able to cast it once. Then I have couple of options:

• i can stop piloting and zenurik dash every 30 secs
• spam energy pads
• visit forge every void hole

Having to stop piloting every avionics you cast is kinda killing the gameplay and being forced to add flow to your every frame build is not really fun. 

Bring back flux and flux capacity mods or make battle avionics cooldown based

 

Having played with the new Energy change, I 100% agree.. The point of having the Energy Attached to the Warframe was  alright, but not really good.. It was bound to fail because not everyone want to have  High energy frame. 

 

Just bring back the damn normal Flux cost like it was before. Or make it mixed with the Warframe Energy

 

. Hull should've been part of railjack from the beginning. What you shouldn't have done is basically nerf every railjack's stats to push a new item. Spending hours on finding all the right parts for my ship a to NOT have an explosive decompression is NOT alright when WE HAD MAXED HULL+ARMOR BEFORE THE PATCH. You are ADDING another GRIND just for the sake of adding more playtime.. 

 

 

 

1. Plexus opinion - Avionics Grid was superior in every aspect and made railjack more than another bar to fill out till it says Max Rank.

Edited March 19, 2021 by MunsuLight

[.Twisted]

As others have stated mod cost is to high, currently 10x previous cost + 1.5 million credits while acquisition of dirac (now endo) has not increased to match. Why? why the punishment? 

Missions. Why have a exterminate mission where we have to board and personally kill each and every enemy instead of just blowing up their ship? Either through overloading reactor or bombarding the ship with main cannon. 

Before it was a good thing that the team could split up and do different tasks but now we are forced to all go into the enemy ship/base to do the next part of the mission as it wont open unless all players are present. Why?

Liked the previous avionics system better, both the style and the freedom from polarities.

Good that we can configure the plexus from the orbiter but why not also other things regarding components of the railjack? Its not like we are mechanics that have to do all the installation of every component ourselves or if we do what does all the personnel in the dry dock do?  

Energy, we have a large reactor which should generate energy over time, could make it so you can craft a accelerant/booster which can increase reactor output for a time. 

Edited March 19, 2021 by .Twisted

[Amazerath]

Absolutely loathe what you guys did with the avionics to mods transition. I had a railjack that could handle missions that drop tier 3 equipment before. Now my railjack has been downgraded to tier 2 content because it lost all of its health, shields and armor. It can't survive unless I'm inside babysitting it, so I can't properly do the higher level missions like I used to. This means I'm now being forced to grind again for things that I already had. And I'm not even talking about all the time I would have to waste because my avionics are now mods and my grid slots now need polarities.

In eight years of Warframe I've seen lots of things I disagree with. However, this is the first time I'm actually disgusted by the way you guys have handled things. All you had to do was to give early adopters a decent basic Plating and a few polarities so that we wouldn't lose progress. But you chose to make a mess of things instead.

I won't even bother to post any more feedback on this.

[Almxce]

For me the main thing I would like changed back is the Railjack having it's own energy source and some of it's capacity being tied to the actual components you used. Sure, you could make a specific build for your frame based around high energy but I found that the RJ having it's own pool of energy was somehow more involving oddly enough. I can also imagine there potentially being annoyances in that regard when you have to leave the RJ and do the warframe portion of a mission with a build not really geared for certain missions. I suppose you could look at it as a layer making things complex but it feels like an artificial hurdle that doesn't really add to things positively. I think the RJ having it's own energy pool added a nice layer to the overall experience and investment in choosing how you build/mod your RJ. I also looked at it as a nice way to measure improvement with your ship being able to do more over time/ with more investment.

I was never a high-end/high-level RJ player but things feel fine on the lower to mid-range level missions in regards to avionics and mods.

 

EDIT: Also, I'm not too sure where to put my other thoughts on the update but the RJ portions of some of the missions I've played feel quite inconsequential to the overall success of the mission. Contrary to some I actually enjoyed spending a good amount of time in my RJ and out in space. I don't know if you can change the defence missions to defending a point using your RJ and archwings or RJ Defence missions actually being a blend of that plus the traditional/on the ground version.

Edited March 19, 2021 by Almxce

[GrimMyfanwy]

I warned you this would happen.

  Link to post

On 2021-03-09 at 3:13 AM, GrimKonstantin said:

"Avionics to Mods" and "Dirac to Endo": a 1 to 1 Dirac to Endo conversion is completely unfair. Because the cost of a maxing an Avionic and the +3 ranks in grid slot to get a max rank Avionic in Dirac is way lower than the cost of ranking a mod with an equal rank. I will use Hyperstrike as an example. It's considered a rare Avionic, and to get it to R7 would cost 3810 Dirac, plus the 2600 for the R+3 gridslot, bringing the total to 6410 Dirac. When converted to a mod, and if it kept parity by having 10 ranks to match the output of the avionic version (7 from the avionic and 3 from the slot) and stayed as a rare mod, it will cost a total or 30,690 Endo AND 1,482,327 credits (compared to the previous 6410 Dirac). So from these numbers if you are to refund the dirac before converting it to a mod, and then do a 1:1 conversion of dirac to endo, you are actually rolling back our progression, which, to be honest, is NOT COOL. The same will happen if you convert them as they stand, to almost as severe a degree, because, using the Hyperstrike example, even if you give me the Avionic at R7 and refund the 2600 Dirac for the slot, it will still cost me an additional 24,280 Endo and 1,298,304 credits to get those last three ranks I had in my +3R gridslot. Suggestion: Use the grid mechanic and allow us to upgrade plexus slots the way we could grid slots and keep all mods at the rank they were when they were intrinsics. This would be the most fair conversion barring a complete rebalance of everything so that the mods we get will give us the same performance after the update as we get now, but if you are going to give me a R4 Voidhole, and then expect me to spend an additional 30,000+Dirac and almost 1.5 million credits to get it back to the same level (the mod version is a R10 in the images, and I am assuming it's rank 10 will be equivalent to the current rank 7), then you better be giving me at least a 1:10 conversion, or else you are, as I said, majorly rolling back my progress.

 

It cost me over 175k Endo and 12 million credits to get my avionicsmods back to the level they were before the update, like I said in my post, the amount to Dirac I had before the update and the fact that I was an MR 30 player with all mods maxed for a long time meant that these changes wouldn't impact me, still holds true, but it still holds true that I was on the far, far tip of the bell-curve of players and that these changes would end up crippling the average players progresstion due to a combination of tying everything to endo and it's exponential scaling while making railjack that much more integral to the core game. This cost wasn't to make me more powerful relative to my equivalent place before the patch, this cost was paid to return me to those levels thanks to you making so many of the avionics go from a rank 4 or 7 max to a rank 10 in mod form.

While not happy about it, I paid the cost, but now I leave you to the forming mob as they light their torches and sharpen their pitchforks.

Enjoy the fallout.

Edited March 19, 2021 by GrimKonstantin

[Teliko_Freedman]

Any chance of getting our Custom Moa's to help around in the Railjack?

[DrMerdic]

I strongly dislike the fact that max Shield is included on Ironclad Matrix. 

Currently both my Shield Generator and Engines give me benefits while shields are depleted so I've always built my railjack for hull / armor with as little shield as possible, now anyone coming onto my ship with an aura mod can negatively affect that making it harder to get rid of my shields and I can't take Ironclad Matrix myself to get more Hull / Armor for the same reason.

 

We should really have an armor focused matrix and a shield focused matrix separately.

[TronionX]

The 1:1 conversion from dirac to endo is not even remotely enough to compensate for the amount of endo you need to max out every railjack mod, unless you actively played railjack for the entire time it has been out and had like a million dirac, but most players, me included, didn't have that much. The refund of ~40k endo from a maxed out grid means you can get one rare railjack mod to rank 10, that kind of sucks doesn't it? I am unfortunately not one of the players that has hundreds of thousands of endo lying around, which means i will need to spend an ungodly amount of time on vodyanoi just to get my mods back to where they were, since the endo gain from railjack missions has not been increased to compensate for the higher cost either.

[Sokdenumeros]

First of all as many people said, Endo cost are too high as well as the drain for some mods.

On the other hand, there's been a lot of changes that make me feel like the railjack has much less personality now, it doesn't feel like I'm part of a crew that's cooperating and my railjack doesn't feel like its any diferent from my friends:

- Flux energy now comes from my warframe instead of the railjack? Now I can spam whatever I want using zenurik or anything else without having to worry about managing my resources, sure having someone waste your collective stuff was frustrating but this feels off. Also, it feels more like each one of us is playing it's own game instead of all being the crew of one same ship. Maybe doing something like having a separated pool of flux energy for each turret would be much better, this way no one can use someone elses energy and if I go to the forge I just choose where I want this newly forged energy to go.

- As I more or less said in the previous point, I'd rather have common pools for resources and items, not just for flux energy but for revolite, dome charges, crafting materials and so on, It feels so disconnected now.

- The plexus, mods and formas feel to traditional, or at least for me. now it feels like I'm modding a sentinel or a k-drive rather than installing new technologies in my super spaceship. I get that the plexus was developed to prevent frustration by enabling you to bring your own avionics, and I'm not going to argue against it because I'm sure many people will prefer it this way, but I'd rather have the old interface and use my reactor to manage my avionics capacity rather than forma. Again, the concept of having a reactor that powers the railjack, avionics and all that stuff was cool, now it feels kind of generic.

[Stalker_says_hello]

I remember an a ionic that would allow us to have more resources in the vault. As of right now to fix a major breach that happens every 5 secs with base playing it costs 100 resources which is max resources just to fix a major breach. And then have to go make some more at forge. 

[Ham_Grenabe]

1 hour ago, GrimKonstantin said:

I warned you this would happen.

  Link to post

 

It cost me over 175k Endo and 12 million credits to get my avionicsmods back to the level they were before the update, like I said in my post, the amount to Dirac I had before the update and the fact that I was an MR 30 player with all mods maxed for a long time meant that these changes wouldn't impact me, still holds true, but it still holds true that I was on the far, far tip of the bell-curve of players and that these changes would end up crippling the average players progresstion due to a combination of tying everything to endo and it's exponential scaling while making railjack that much more integral to the core game. This cost wasn't to make me more powerful relative to my equivalent place before the patch, this cost was paid to return me to those levels thanks to you making so many of the avionics go from a rank 4 or 7 max to a rank 10 in mod form.

While not happy about it, I paid the cost, but now I leave you to the forming mob as they light their torches and sharpen their pitchforks.

Enjoy the fallout.

I had...not nearly enough to restore the lost progress. Kinda puts a hard stop to Railjack for me (although having gone through Railjack already, I wasn’t exactly dying for more of it).

Maybe they’ll let us consign the Railjack to The Business for some floofs. 

Edited March 20, 2021 by Ham_Grenabe

[GrimMyfanwy]

1 hour ago, Sokdenumeros said:

First of all as many people said, Endo cost are too high as well as the drain for some mods.

On the other hand, there's been a lot of changes that make me feel like the railjack has much less personality now, it doesn't feel like I'm part of a crew that's cooperating and my railjack doesn't feel like its any diferent from my friends:

That was the other major flaw I pointed out in the dev workshop that they refused to address, the homogenization of the game mode. The best analogy I can come up with is if they released the original game with 8 warframes and 6 guns and the decided to reduce the number of warframes to one, doubled the number of guns and claimed the game was better for it.

[CyberneticSusurrus]

TL;DR: Many of the core changes do not reduce the grind at all, and actively make it worse.
(Speaking purely for myself, the significant drawbacks kill any fun and enthusiasm about the new additions.)

Edit: I would also like to note that many of the criticisms players are raising now were already raised in the Feedback thread, and apparently ignored.

 

• The Plexus

In its current state, it seems like a massive step backwards.
It feels bad, and out of keeping with the rest of the game, including the very Mods system it's modeled upon.

1. No-one wanted yet another intrusive Forma grind, nor gilded cage of Polarity.
   The Grid system offered far greater build diversity, and was far more rewarding to level and use.
   Why not extend that concept to the rest of the game?
   (Even if it's as limited 'new Polarity that a basic Forma can apply which reduces all Mod costs by a fixed amount'.)
2. How is this new system supposed to account for the possibility of crewmembers all building for the same role?
   Under the old system that didn't matter, because you could flex to whatever was needed, which was a good part of Railjack design.
   (I would suggest looking at how the Pilot/Gunner/Engineer roles function in the Guns of Icarus Online/Alliance game, where players build for defined roles but are matchmade based on those roles. Likewise they have defined areas of expertise but can still flex to other roles if needed.)

• New Avionics and Avionic Changes

1. The costs are absurd. This is the opposite of reducing the grind.
   The Dirac:Endo conversion was woefully insufficient, and the lack of credits at all is glaring.
   Why would you increase capacity and cost instead of increasing value per point?
2. Why are basic Railjack stats converted into Aura Mods?
   Are Vitality, Redirection, & Steel Fiber going to be Aura Mods from now on too?
   Anything that affects the Railjack ship's stats should be part of the Railjack ship's build, and not dependent on whether a human player happens to join the crew with the right mod.
3. Following on from the above: Auras should supplement basic functionality with interesting or unique bonuses; not actively impair functionality when they are not present.
   Archwing bonuses, Crew bonuses, or Railjack equivalents of Energy Siphon and Corrosive Projection and the like would make far more sense as Aura mods.
   (You could have an Aura mod that boosts the mobility of Away crew for example, or boosts player and AI crew defences while onboard the Railjack.)

• New Armaments and Armament Changes

These seem good overall.
I like the addition of new weapons, though I'm not sure which ones are any good quite yet.

• Battle Mod Changes

Likewise these seem mostly sensible, however it's a little odd that it seems one can no longer use Void Cloak alongside Battle Forge.
Why is that?
Was it an oversight, or was the combination of the two considered undesirable..?

• The New Plating Components

Ambivalence, though I think it's ultimately a positive.
While it's nice to genuinely reduce the grind here, perhaps the "Resource Bundles" for Early Adopters should have included a small amount of this replacement resource?
As it stands, players are being told half the resources they already farmed are useless (currently) and now they have to grind this new thing from scratch

 

 

Edited March 20, 2021 by CyberneticSusurrus
TL;DR moved to top. Added Edit. (+ Small Typo.)

[TronionX]

Since so many people already said the things about endo, plexus and such, i want to bring attention to the fact that tactical avionics are now separated into defensive, offensive and super, just like battle avionics, this is just bad, as all it does is limit which tactical avionics you can choose, for instance, if you want fire suppression, you can't have void cloak. This wasn't even mentioned as a change, and i don't get why it was even changed in the first place, why limit tactical avionics, if you're meant to choose them depending on what you want to do, say, you were using void cloak, fire suppression and flow burn before, well, guess what, all of those are now considered super tactical avionics, meaning you can only choose one. I would simply like to ask for this to be reversed, it serves no purpose whatsoever.