Railjack battle avionics cost too much energy

[GEN-Son_17]

18 hours ago, (PSN)Silver1593 said:

I hope until the console update de reduce the energy costs or bring back the flux energy . Some frames dont have more than 150 energy without + energy  mods . I think removing the flux energy was a bad idea

Are you basing this off of hearsay? I'm only asking because you're a PSN account. If so, please try it first.

[Nichivo]

 

5 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Of course not, because building a Warframe for a Warframe-focused mission makes perfect and total sense.

What wouldn't make sense is if modding Wukong to be tanky affected a game mode which wasn't Warframe-focused, like Archwing. Then there'd be a problem: you'd be incentivized to only use tanky builds for that mode, which would limit the number of options available to you because some frames and builds can be tanky and others can't. Modding your Warframe as an EHP stat-stick for your Archwing would be a dumb idea, a dumb idea that previously existed and was patched right out of the game.

Just like how it'd be a problem if your Warframe abilities affected your Railjack's damage. Then you'd be incentivized to use only frames with damage buffing abilities like Rhino, which would similarly limit the number of options available to you because some frames can buff damage a whole bunch and most cannot. Modding your Warframe to be an ability stat-stick for your Railjack would be another dumb idea, a dumb idea that previously existed and was patched right out of the game.

Which brings us to having your Warframe as an energy stat-stick for your Railjack. It incentivizes using a small number of energy tools, because these tools allow you to quickly and cheaply produce a lot of energy that isn't available if you choose other things. Modding your Warframe to be an energy stat-stick for your Railjack is yet another dumb idea that should be patched right out of the game, like the similar dumb mechanics before it.

We've been over this same issue many times in the past and the answer is always crystal clear: giving players a small number of good choices and a boatload of comparably bad choices results in less variety and freedom of choice. Players choose the better tools, in your own words "you WILL adapt your build if you want the better result". Your choice doesn't matter because there is no choice when all of the other options are worse in every way.

Compared to using Dispensary, yes. Pads spend resources you don't need to be spending; you could do better not spending them at all. There is no reason to flush those resources down the toilet like that when you could do better using other tools for free.

And no, Zenurik cannot keep up with spamming abilities that cost hundreds of energy per cast, not compared to other alternatives like Dispensary or even pads. It takes ~30 seconds to generate enough energy through Zenurik for one cast of Seeker Volley. Meanwhile using Dispensary I can belt of 5-6 in the same timespan and Dispensary lasts twice as long so I have to get out of the seat half as often. This is hardly comparable.

Just to drive this nail home, here's a comparison of your "options" over 30 seconds (at 2x speed so they'll fit):

Like you say, "you will not be able to use your abilities as quick" which is exactly what I'm saying is the problem. You're less than 1/5th as effective using Zenurik as you are using Dispensary on Protea. And since Dispensary has a Duration penalty when subsumed on other frames it does much worse in that context and you're better off skipping the extra work and just using Protea instead.

If Railjacks carried over a Warframe's energy efficiency, then maybe it wouldn't be as much of an issue. You'd still be pigeonholed into a smaller number of options than if it were just on Reactors where it makes so much more sense, but at least you'd have one more choice. Though still, having to get out of the pilot seat and stop flying the ship every 30 seconds to re-up Energizing Dash or Dispensary doesn't sound very much like the "fluid gameplay" you're talking about. It sounds the opposite of "fluid", it sounds janky AF.

And why would they intentionally create under-performing Reactors? Because they're evil and hate kittens? Because they're stupid? Maybe I have a little more faith in them than you do, idk.

He says, ignoring that I've already said I've changed my build. I didn't just change the build either, it's a whole new frame! I've already changed, my point is that in this case I shouldn't have to.

And no, if they put energy on Reactors where it belongs I'll use whatever frame and build I feel like playing that day because I'll actually be able to.

  Reveal hidden contents

Have fun getting out of the pilot seat every Seeker Volley, I know I don't. 188 Energy doesn't go a very long way in Railjack.

Oh my! That is a whole lot of common sense. I can't remember that last time I saw that much common game sense on the warframe forums. Careful, I'm not sure many will be able to grasp any of what you just said.☁️🖐️

[(PSN)Darkrya]

51 minutes ago, mikakor said:

hell no, flux was clunky as all hell. energy warframe is a thousand time better. it still has some very small drawbacks, but it will be this over flux everyday of the week. 

I disagree with this sentiment, Flux had its problems, i.e the shared pool aspect of it, but ideally it didn't bring up as many problems as this new Energy system has, in terms of balancing, and player choice.

I was reading your older posts in this discussion, and I understand what you mean, modding should mean something in Warframe's gameplay, however I think what I and a good set of people are trying to convince you is that modding your Warframe's stats should not effect how well you do with the Railjack itself, ideally that's what the new Plexus system is for.  If you want to be a good captain you don't choose a specific Warframe, or Loadout to be a better Captain, you mod your Plexus, or make mechanical decisions that best fill the role on that Railjack, same thing for the Engineer, Gunner, Defender, or any blend between. 

The current system (on PC) also has the adage of creating balancing problems where people essentially have a large pool of Energy for the Railjack on demand, it creates the problem where people can essentially spam their Railjack abilities without making any sort of decision making onto how it's used, and how often it can be. Abilities for the Railjack shouldn't necessary be the primary form of damage, or constant CC, as they have a large impact on how these enemies are dealt with, if we encouraged a system where we could constantly preform these large impact actions that disable the enemies movement, or outright eliminates them, then their presence and the threat that they impose becomes less significant, the skill that you need to track enemies or dodge their attacks would be unnecessary, which in my opinion could be boring, and knowing our current Developers (or any developers for that fact) if they feel we might be bored they'll change it to be more interesting, which means returning the challenge, and if we don't want to give up our constant use of high impact abilities, then more than likely they will change these abilities to be less impactful then they really are, which is a solution, and could be an interesting gameplay change, which would ideally that would come with it's own problems, and I don't think we're out create more problems than need solving.

Overall I don't think I'm happy with the current Railjack Energy System (on PC), a step back into the Flux system would be a better change, PublikDomain had an excellent idea of Energy passively regenerating for people, where the reactor ties directly into that mechanic, I'd prefer to see something like this come to fruition.

[mikakor]

48 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Just like how it'd be a problem if your Warframe abilities affected your Railjack's damage. Then you'd be incentivized to use only frames with damage buffing abilities like Rhino, which would similarly limit the number of options available to you because some frames can buff damage a whole bunch and most cannot. Modding your Warframe to be an ability stat-stick for your Railjack would be another dumb idea, a dumb idea that previously existed and was patched right out of the game.

except in the case of damage buff, it was limited to a few warframes, while in this case, as i said again, every frames have the same or so level of energy to spend. so it does make sense since all of them can be useful. 

 

48 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Which brings us to having your Warframe as an energy stat-stick for your Railjack. It incentivizes using a small number of energy tools, because these tools allow you to quickly and cheaply produce a lot of energy that isn't available if you choose other things. Modding your Warframe to be an energy stat-stick for your Railjack is yet another dumb idea that should be patched right out of the game, like the similar dumb mechanics before it.

you act as if modding your warframe for energy is such a god damn big thing. as if your entire build was completely #*!%ed or that if you build for energy, you can't do anything else, which is wrong. energy is just a tool, and it's up to you to use it well, with the build you made. tere is 4 tools to help you gain energy, and each of them are good in their own way. even for small pool'ed people. 
 

 

50 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

We've been over this same issue many times in the past and the answer is always crystal clear: giving players a small number of good choices and a boatload of comparably bad choices results in less variety and freedom of choice. Players choose the better tools, in your own words "you WILL adapt your build if you want the better result". Your choice doesn't matter because there is no choice when all of the other options are worse in every way.

then buff the bad options. that's it. but DE always take the easy routes. and again, that is wrong. there is all the choices you want, if you use the tools at disposition. you are the one not willing to :/ 
 

 

52 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

And no, Zenurik cannot keep up with spamming abilities that cost hundreds of energy per cast, not compared to other alternatives like Dispensary or even pads. It takes ~30 seconds to generate enough energy through Zenurik for one cast of Seeker Volley. Meanwhile using Dispensary I can belt of 5-6 in the same timespan and Dispensary lasts twice as long so I have to get out of the seat half as often. This is hardly comparable.

Just to drive this nail home, here's a comparison of your "options" over 30 seconds (at 2x speed so they'll fit):

alright, fair enough for taking the effort in doing those GIF, and fair enough for Zenurik. i never said that they were as good, and it's true, it's slow. my point kinda still stand, it IS slower. it CAN keep up, but it will be that much slower, it's true. 

 

 

53 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

And since Dispensary has a Duration penalty when subsumed on other frames it does much worse in that context and you're better off skipping the extra work and just using Protea instead.

now that's dishonest. while there is a duration penalty, any frame built for duration will have no problem using dispenser. at all. 
 

56 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

I shouldn't have to.

yes, you should change your build to fit the mission you are in. what kind of BS logic is that? " i shouldn't have to adapt my build to the type of mission i'm doing!" sounds like BS. you just want not to bother with changing your loadout, that's all. or at least that's what it sounds like, even if you apparently did. that's what the comments seems to show from you at least.

 

56 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

And why would they intentionally create under-performing Reactors? Because they're evil and hate kittens? Because they're stupid? Maybe I have a little more faith in them than you do, idk.

because DE has a very well documented history of not going the direction that would be either fun/thought to be the logic way, like you. if you've been around for long eonugh, then you should know how DE operates. anyone that's been here long enough will tell you this. they are champions of giving us under-performing things. 
 

 

58 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

ETA: Doesn't really matter where you go.

thanks. i'll do 2-3 grineer mission, and 2-3 corpus one and give feedback on how it felt tomorrow. it's kinda late here... 

also as a personal note, less related to how we're arguing with each other and going at each other's throat, and more or an attempt to help, may i suggest a few things that could make it easier for you? while changing the build, yes. considering the forma you've put in place already... switching the umbral intensify for a blind rage, and fleeting expertise for a flow / primed flow? the augmented mana pool will counter balance the lack of efficiency pretty well, and overall you won't feel much of a difference. on top of having your duration back for your dispensary. 

( but i'll still do the railjack missions with the build you sent me, otherwise it doesn't count ) 

let us continue this tomorrow. i'm kinda dead! 

[mikakor]

19 minutes ago, (PSN)Darkrya said:

it creates the problem where people can essentially spam their Railjack abilities without making any sort of decision making onto how it's used, and how often it can be.

6 seconds between each usage, otherwise the energy cost climbs substantially. so there needs to be some thought behind it. 

 

 

20 minutes ago, (PSN)Darkrya said:

Overall I don't think I'm happy with the current Railjack Energy System (on PC), a step back into the Flux system would be a better change, PublikDomain had an excellent idea of Energy passively regenerating for people, where the reactor ties directly into that mechanic, I'd prefer to see something like this come to fruition.

again, i wouldn't mind this either to be honest, even if it would no matter what be slower to use our abilities and less often than with warframe energy, but it COULD be an alternative. 

but i have no faith in DE to give us a reactor that would actually be useful enough to bother using to make energy. at worse, it'll do something like Zenurik. 

[fakeplayerr]

No, its not too much. There are smart frames to use, energy mods, pads everything.

/Close topic

[Aldain]

7 minutes ago, fakeplayerr said:

No, its not too much. There are smart frames to use, energy mods, pads everything.

/Close topic

Username checks out.

[PublikDomain]

1 hour ago, mikakor said:

except in the case of damage buff, it was limited to a few warframes, while in this case, as i said again, every frames have the same or so level of energy to spend. so it does make sense since all of them can be useful. 

Except? It's the same. There are only a handful of ways to generate energy for Railjack that doesn't require some hoop to jump through like having an enemy around.

• Dispensary on Protea
• Dispensary subsumed on another frame, which is less than half as good (see below)
• Hildryn. who has cooldowns and shield drain
• Lavos, who has cooldowns
• Garuda's Bloodletting, which you have to jump out of the seat every few seconds to use and requires health generation
• Energy pads, which are wasteful
• Zenurik, which is too slow to be useful
• Energy Siphon, I guess, which is even slower than Zenurik (4 minutes per Seeker Volley 😭)
• Limbo, I guess, except he can't use any of the stations while in the Rift
• The Forge, which you and I seem to agree is an annoying trip to the end of the ship and should be optional

And that's pretty much it. You can be slow or wasteful or less effective... Or you can play Protea and spam that S#&$ like there's no tomorrow.

And no, not every frame has access to the same amount of energy. Even with Primed Flow frames like Ash have half the energy (425) as frames like Ivara Prime (850).

1 hour ago, mikakor said:

you act as if modding your warframe for energy is such a god damn big thing. as if your entire build was completely #*!%ed or that if you build for energy, you can't do anything else, which is wrong.

It is a "god damn big thing" because if you don't have the ability to generate energy you can't use your ship's abilities without gluing yourself to the Forge.

And I do build for my energy economy, but I like to build for efficiency and not power max for various reasons. Railjack ignores efficiency so my preferred way of building goes flying right out the window.

1 hour ago, mikakor said:

then buff the bad options. that's it. but DE always take the easy routes. and again, that is wrong. there is all the choices you want, if you use the tools at disposition. you are the one not willing to :/ 

How is saying this any different than me saying "buff Reactors if they aren't good enough"?

And yes, DE often takes the easy route, like slapping on the escalating energy costs instead of backing off and reverting what was immediately obvious would be a terrible mechanic. And it took seconds to see where it would go:

1 hour ago, mikakor said:

now that's dishonest. while there is a duration penalty, any frame built for duration will have no problem using dispenser. at all. 

How so? Not every frame benefits from building Duration like Protea does, and even if you have a comparable Duration you've still gotta re-up it twice as often. It's more work subsuming it for less convenience and benefit than just using Protea. Putting Dispensary on other frames isn't much of an issue if you can build for efficiency, but hey Railjack ignores that. Protea also gets her +100% Power Strength passive which can apply to the full duration of Dispensary. You'd have to make one downright whack stat-stick frame build to come even half as close as the same thing.

1 hour ago, mikakor said:

yes, you should change your build to fit the mission you are in.

And if I build my Warframe for the Warframe portion of the mission I am in, I am less effective in the Railjack portion. Instead of modding your Railjack for Railjack and your Warframe for Warframe you've gotta mix the two together for no reason or benefit whatsoever compared to the alternative options. Tying the two together does nothing but allow for abuse and imbalance, and I guarantee will make it harder for DE to balance Railjack in the future. There are already people who think that Railjack is too easy and needs harder content, and DE will have no ability to deliver that content when it has to cater to both the highest level of player power that's built on abusing the interaction between the two systems and the lowest level of player power who don't use those tools.

1 hour ago, mikakor said:

because DE has a very well documented history of not going the direction that would be either fun/thought to be the logic way, like you. if you've been around for long eonugh, then you should know how DE operates. anyone that's been here long enough will tell you this. they are champions of giving us under-performing things. 

They miss quite often, but they also get a lot of things right when they stop to listen. Unfortunately, the cries defending poor design so it can continue to be abused tend to drown out calls for more sensible or balanced ways to do things. There's a lot of good feedback regarding the game's balance that could, if implemented, make the game a far nicer thing to play, but more often than not it's dog-piled by players who want to maintain the status quo for their own benefit - good gameplay be damned. The "fluid gameplay" you seem to think Railjack has is only really accessible if you use a narrow range of strategies compared to the vast amount of other options, when instead it should be the default experience for everyone no matter how they like to build their frames.

1 hour ago, mikakor said:

may i suggest a few things

No, because I've already tried that and it's not as good. Swapping Fleeting for P. Flow and taking Energize offsets the energy economy well enough for Railjack, but makes her both inferior to Protea for generating energy as a pilot and inferior to my existing efficiency build for general combat. On a full energy bar you get a few more casts, sure, but it takes a lot longer to fill that bar back up. With efficiency a single health orb drop from Dispensary can be enough for your full bar; you wait 3 seconds and you're off again. It's easy, it's fluid, it's great. It's why after two years of continuous experimenting this is how I've settled on building her and not using energy max. With P. Flow you've got to sit around and do nothing for 2-3x longer for the same number of casts which encourages using her passively, which I despise having to do. Using P. Flow instead of efficiency also makes losing your energy much more of a hindrance because it takes more orbs to get going again. With efficiency one health orb out of a locker and you're able to cast another Dispensary and continue as you were.

1 hour ago, mikakor said:

6 seconds between each usage, otherwise the energy cost climbs substantially. so there needs to be some thought behind it. 

Oh, and here's the cool part about Protea: without P. Flow she has just enough energy to naturally cap out her casting costs at the first increase. You cast once and hit the first energy increase and as soon as Seeker Volley drops to 225 you can fire again. With Dispensary you'll be filled up again by the time it's cooled down again. There is zero thought behind it. P. Flow and a lot of energy generation just makes the energy costs worse compared to not using P. Flow at all.

[Aldain]

7 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

And if I build my Warframe for the Warframe portion of the mission I am in, I am less effective in the Railjack portion. Instead of modding your Railjack for Railjack and your Warframe for Warframe you've gotta mix the two together for no reason or benefit whatsoever compared to the alternative options.

Technically that's what the Plexus should have been for, but sadly DE took exactly one step on the "Yes! YES! NO!" scale when planning it.

"We're making Railjack Battle/Tactical Avionics not drain from the Plexus so you don't have to choose between utility functions and stats."

"Yes!"

"We're making Flux energy no longer used from a single pool so one person can't spam it all down in 3 seconds."

"YES!"

"Also it now runs off of Warframe energy instead."

So close to the right answer and yet they bungled it at the last step.

[PublikDomain]

4 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Technically that's what the Plexus should have been for, but sadly DE took exactly one step on the "Yes! YES! NO!" scale when planning it.

"We're making Railjack Battle/Tactical Avionics not drain from the Plexus so you don't have to choose between utility functions and stats."

"Yes!"

"We're making Flux energy no longer used from a single pool so one person can't spam it all down in 3 seconds."

"YES!"

"Also it now runs off of Warframe energy instead."

So close to the right answer and yet they bungled it at the last step.

Don't even get me started on the Plexus, lol.

[Graavarg]

15 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

It's stupid because we CAN spam abilities forever this way, not because abilities cost too much energy lol.

I was reading the thread and thinking this exactly.

And that we are talking about abilities that are fun to use but that we don't really need (from a "completing mission" perspective). A fully kitted Railjack can easily do any mission without using a single ability even once. 

And that the whole idea that we should be spamming OP abilities is totally bonkers in the first place. Press button - clear space. Fun???!!!

[Aldain]

Just now, Graavarg said:

And that the whole idea that we should be spamming OP abilities is totally bonkers in the first place. Press button - clear space. Fun???!!!

I've always been of the mind that if somebody finds something fun solely because it is overpowered they likely don't actually find it fun, they just want to be overpowered.

Kind of like the people who only play top tier characters in fighting games even when casually playing with friends, that kind of thing.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

16 minutes ago, Graavarg said:

I was reading the thread and thinking this exactly.

And that we are talking about abilities that are fun to use but that we don't really need (from a "completing mission" perspective). A fully kitted Railjack can easily do any mission without using a single ability even once. 

And that the whole idea that we should be spamming OP abilities is totally bonkers in the first place. Press button - clear space. Fun???!!!

Agreed entirely mate. Apparently lack of challenge equals fun these days sigh...

[-CdG-Zilchy]

3 hours ago, Nichivo said:

No you can't... The cost of the abilities ramps up the more you use them. In the case of say hildryn you can use what is it 2 volleys and then your locked out of volley till the counter comes back down and wow the shield counter for non energy frames takes forever to lower. It's bad because all frames are not designed with large base energy pools, even with unlimited pizzas, zenurik, etc etc they get locked out of battle avionics faster. At least Flux was balanced, and left everyone playing the same game, and managing the same resource. They just needed a way to prevent random pugs from spending the hosts resources as a fix for problems, and it would have been fine.

Perhaps in solo but in group play you just need to expand your thinking so that you have infinite energy for missions. And then of course there's the fact that no good ability aside from maybe void hole even requires a lot of energy but we'll veto that point in favour of players wanting to use whatever they want, as it should be.

[Aldain]

6 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Apparently lack of challenge equals fun these days sigh...

I blame the loot goblins, players who are so desperate for the endorphin rush of loot that they don't even know what they're farming for anymore.

Though I'll also admit I'm more the type who likes a fair and honest challenge in my games, not excessively biased towards either the player or the enemy.

I tend to avoid games that sell themselves on being "hard" because most of the time that translates to "We copied the trial and error gameplay of Dark Souls" in recent years.

[Nichivo]

33 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Perhaps in solo but in group play you just need to expand your thinking so that you have infinite energy for missions. And then of course there's the fact that no good ability aside from maybe void hole even requires a lot of energy but we'll veto that point in favour of players wanting to use whatever they want, as it should be.

That's nice but if the cost exceeds the cap you can't cast. If you spam the cost ramps up even in a group, unless you plan on doing the stop light shuffle, but that would be dumb as hell and a waste of time for the small amount of gain. It also does not change the fact the energy system is unbalanced if anything it just accentuates the issue.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

29 minutes ago, Nichivo said:

That's nice but if the cost exceeds the cap you can't cast. If you spam the cost ramps up even in a group, unless you plan on doing the stop light shuffle, but that would be dumb as hell and a waste of time for the small amount of gain. It also does not change the fact the energy system is unbalanced if anything it just accentuates the issue.

I don't think the flux was a balanced system either and yet there was no vocal crying was easy to spam. I think people just want things to be really easy and I'm not an advocate for that. If slotting primed flow is too much for some people who wish to use a particular frame(this is called a compromise) then perhaps they should play a cookie clicker instead.

[Nichivo]

4 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

I don't think the flux was a balanced system either and yet there was no vocal crying was easy to spam. I think people just want things to be really easy and I'm not an advocate for that. If slotting primed flow is too much for some people who wish to use a particular frame(this is called a compromise) then perhaps they should play a cookie clicker instead.

They should have just fixed the one issue people complained about with flux, make it so pugs can't spend the hosts flux issue solved. Having a system that further dictates what frame you play and how you build it is complete and utter trash in a game with so many frames to choose from. It's like saying welcome to the buffet pick one item and get out.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Just now, Nichivo said:

They should have just fixed the one issue people complained about with flux, make it so pugs can't spend the hosts flux issue solved. Having a system that further dictates what frame you play and how you build it is complete and utter trash in a game with so many frames to choose from. It's like saying welcome to the buffet pick one item and get out.

While I agree that was a bad feature, I don't personally think being able to spam abilities is how it should work at all. This is a ship, it takes off with it's loaded munitions and fuel supply etc and goes on its mission. Since when do spaceships just fly around spamming missiles and god knows what else out their arse constantly? 

[Nichivo]

1 minute ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

While I agree that was a bad feature, I don't personally think being able to spam abilities is how it should work at all. This is a ship, it takes off with it's loaded munitions and fuel supply etc and goes on its mission. Since when do spaceships just fly around spamming missiles and god knows what else out their arse constantly? 

Who plays in groups? Besides last time I checked group play in railjack is broken as hell, in fact they broke solo play with the last patch, so I am not playing railjack at the moment. The energy change was silly every time they listen to the it's to hard crowd the game gets worse.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

16 minutes ago, Nichivo said:

Who plays in groups? Besides last time I checked group play in railjack is broken as hell, in fact they broke solo play with the last patch, so I am not playing railjack at the moment. The energy change was silly every time they listen to the it's to hard crowd the game gets worse.

Me. With clan mates.

[Drachnyn]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb -CdG-Zilchy:

Agreed entirely mate. Apparently lack of challenge equals fun these days sigh...

But the railjack has always been invincible. There was never a challenge there in the first place and spamming abilities now doesnt change anything about that. 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

5 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

But the railjack has always been invincible. There was never a challenge there in the first place and spamming abilities now doesnt change anything about that. 

Yeh there's never been a challenge to survive, if anything it's just TTK that offers any variation. They need to add bigger scale mission objectives if they ever want to make it challenging. 

[chaotea]

15 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

The problem is that you must use flow or primed flow on every frame you wanna play RJ with, even if it is a frame that normaly relies on just efficiency instead or neither.

Ive not had this issue as i find that a larger energy pool vastly outweighs more efficency. So almost every frame gets Primed flow as standard for me.

 

15 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Lavos and Hildryn circumvent having to build for a stat you dont actually need on the frame itself.

Unless you just use a frame that does need that stat.

 

15 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

This in addition to battle avionics costing waaaaay more than a WF skill, and they arent impacted by efficiency either.

They do have their own efficency mods and intrinsics though.

 

15 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Certain frames cannot cast the 200 cost skills unless they use flow or primed flow since their basepool is lower than the cost of the avionic.

Again, the solution is this: Take a frame with a loadout of higher energy pool, or invest in the intrinsics that lower the casiting cost.

Yes you can get yourself into a situation where you cant cast abilities, but fortunatly you dont need to to compleate the missions, you have guns.

As it stands, this is like not equipping a primary or secondary weapon, then posting a topic saying that the game is bad because you cant shoot things. All the tools are there to allow you to do the thing, but its by a choice that you dont.

 

15 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

It is all really poorly balanced.

Well its almost daily being rebalanced so thats not a surprise.

 

15 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

It is extremely mindboggling why they went with this system over simply just going with the hildryn or lavos option.

Its not mindboggling at all. Lets brainstorm here you and I.

1) 'Hildryn' system - Use sheilds for energy as default.

- Result, this topic is titled 'Railjack battle avionics cost too much sheild' and most of the comments are the same, but replace the word energy with sheild.

eg: "The problem is that you must use Redirection on every frame you wanna play RJ with, even if it is a frame that normaly relies on just health."

 

2) 'Lavos' system - use cooldowns as default.

- Result, while more efficient, there would remain the disconnect between regular warfame and RJ that this change was ment to help solve. By switching it to energy, we are then using a resourse we are already familiar with. If cooldowns were default, there would be no point in changing it from flux.

 

15 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Both work fantastically well and either could be a RJ mechanic. With Hildryns' they could have just kept the flux avionic, while with Lavos' it wouldnt be needed.

Realisticlly speaking, neither of these work well within the overall system. The point of energy is that you still need to interact with the forge for resulplying, though there are now other ways to manage energy. but with either of these that part of forge use is discarded, meaning that the entirity of the forge usage needs rebalanced for having 1 less resourse to manage, which in turn would require all the other forge supplies to be reballanced. It would be a huge nock on effect, and deffinatly not the simple fix that it might at first seem.

[Drachnyn]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb -CdG-Zilchy:

Yeh there's never been a challenge to survive, if anything it's just TTK that offers any variation. They need to add bigger scale mission objectives if they ever want to make it challenging. 

That and I think enemy crewships should also get an artillery gun. Railjack and crewships cant finish eachother off with just regular guns. IMO they have nerfed crewships too much and they should be threatening. With the artillery gun we can finish them off so they should also get one with which they can finish the railjack off if its low HP and you'll then have to dodge that shot somehow (hiding behind a rock or another ship, flying behind the crewship since your artillery gun can also just fire forward).