gara kaleida skin with splinter storm

[(PSN)Unstar]

5 hours ago, Rahny said:

Please no! Do not do that! Gara breaks free armor and uses shards - this is logical! Please do not take away this feature and uniqueness of Gara! Or make this setting for the player to make a choice! cry from the heart

I'm genuinely curious what you're talking about but I have no idea, can you provide the context?

[smashedwookie]

Up till the announcement of the change the people that were the most vocal about this were the one in favor of a change that would keep the glass pieces on.

DE caved in to the vocal minority, forgetting that there are also a lot of people not saying a word because they like the interaction with the ability the way it was initially created. They should work on getting a toggle in the game and hold on the feature unless able to do so.  The reasoning is simple because the day this actually make it way into the game, then all the people that are not on the forum  will get the change and them people will complain about why it was changed and not a choice.

[AuroraSonicBoom]

The "naked" skin actually looks super sleek IMO, and I'd have no issues with it. Unlike a naked Chroma, which looks weird on his own.

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

9 minutes ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

Unlike a naked Chroma, which looks weird on his own.

And unlike Xaku who loses 95% of his fashion during his 4. And metal-covered Rhino. And all invisible frames besides Wisp...

Basically, we could really use some Fashion Preservation toggles for a lot of frames.

28 minutes ago, smashedwookie said:

DE caved in to the vocal minority

I would really love to see your statistics on this being a vocal minority, and not just the vocal part of the majority sharing this opinion. Because by your logic, sure there will be some people complaining after this change, but they will be the true vocal minority. (Honestly though, judging by where the likes are in this thread, it seems that the preference is in favor of Gara keeping her glass on, ideally with a toggle.)

[smashedwookie]

4 minutes ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

I would really love to see your statistics on this being a vocal minority, and not just the vocal part of the majority sharing this opinion. Because by your logic, sure there will be some people complaining after this change, but they will be the true vocal minority. (Honestly though, judging by where the likes are in this thread, it seems that the preference is in favor of Gara keeping her glass on, ideally with a toggle.)

Only DE as those statistic on hand, but like any gaming forum this one suffer from the echo chamber effect when vocal minority want something. What % of the active player base are actually using the forum, then out of those what % actually said anything about not liking the way the ability interact with the glass, which only really started when the deluxe was introduced.

Unless they actually go back on what was said and do it the proper way (with a toggle) people will complain when the change is implanted. Seen it happen many time with other game where developers changed something because forum outcry, just to get chewed after the patch by the poeple that were not aware or were not asking for the change.

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

10 minutes ago, smashedwookie said:

people will complain when the change is implanted

Yep, you're right there - a vocal minority will come to the forum and complain about Gara keeping her armor. Hell, it might even seem like a good number of people, but...

11 minutes ago, smashedwookie said:

but like any gaming forum this one suffer from the echo chamber effect when vocal minority want something.

What % of the active player base are actually using the forum, then out of those what % actually said anything about liking the way the ability interact with the glass? You'll find that that % is smaller than the ones disliking the interaction, making it an even smaller portion of the active player base.

See, your logic doesn't quite get you to where you want it to go.

[smashedwookie]

5 minutes ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

See, your logic doesn't quite get you to where you want it to go.

No, the logic still stand, because for all we know there could very well be as many player that want it to change than those that want it to stay the way it was original designed.  After all, so far its mostly been those that find that the deluxe looks weird when naked without its glass bits, on a frame that spend most of its time without said glass bits when played properly, that have been complaining.

The only way to get a change like that thought, without getting complain is a toggle. But because it could create bugs DE took the easy way out.  Alternatively, the other way to check on if the change should be done or not would have been a proper poll on from DE. Done with, annoying so, in game visibility too make sure to get as much proper feedback on the question.

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

7 minutes ago, smashedwookie said:

No, the logic still stand

I didn't say it doesn't stand, I said it doesn't quite get you to where you want it to go. There's a difference. As you yourself just said,

8 minutes ago, smashedwookie said:

for all we know there could very well be as many player that want it to change than those that want it to stay the way it was original designed.

Essentially, that line of logic doesn't get you to any conclusion of how the base is divided on the question. In fact, if you look at the current forum talk, there appears to be more people in favor of this change. Among the vocal minority, the pro-glass folks outnumber the no-glassers.

Did you know that when it comes to statistics, you don't need to ask everyone? A smaller, randomized sample of people can be used to reflect the population as a whole. And believe it or not, but this forum is not just used by pro-glass people. And not only have this been a recurring topic, in multiple parts of this forum and the community as a whole, since at least the Deluxe skin's reveal, giving plenty of time for both sides to voice their opinion, but the devs have also said "Hey, we're implementing this" and the pro-glass people still outnumber the anti-glassers. Believe it or not, but this does count as "proper feedback".

tl;dr: When you look at the available data, which one can do, the majority opinion is "keep the glass on during Splinter Storm".

[(PSN)Oakrux]

I’m neither pro nor anti glass armour. But I see the word toggle thrown around here more than once and want to remind people that DE were quite up front about how long that would take and what a mess of the code it would make. 
 

toggles aren’t some magic piece of code you switch on by turning a one to a zero or some nonsensical fantastical thing like that. Every game I’m in and every forum it’s just people going ‘toggle. Toggle will save us. Have you heard of our lord and saviour cheesy toggle?’

So I wouldn’t hold your breath and I would definitely choose a side in this. I don’t think Gara is popular enough to warrant the resources this would apparently take. 

[PublikDomain]

1 hour ago, (PSN)CambionDrift said:

I don’t think Gara is popular enough to warrant the resources this would apparently take. 

Gara's not the only frame that would benefit from something like this, many frames have parts or effects that people want to be able to swap out or turn off. Rhino's Iron Skin effects, Mesa Prime's chaps, Ivara Prime's skirt, Gara's glass, Nova Deluxe's arms in her casting animation, choosing between Prime and regular casting effects like for Hydroid's tentacles, etc. Adding better support for these kinds of things is long-requested and would definitely be worth the investment.

And we've already got this level of control over many other options:

1 hour ago, (PSN)CambionDrift said:

I’m neither pro nor anti glass armour. But I see the word toggle thrown around here more than once and want to remind people that DE were quite up front about how long that would take and what a mess of the code it would make.

DE could have hand-waved separate Syandana coloring too as "too hard" or that it "might cause bugs", but they added it anyways. They've made far bigger changes to the game and the engine dozens of times in the past even though it might be hard and cause bugs. They do these things anyways all the time and the game is better for it.

Causing bugs is an excuse, and it isn't even a very good one. I don't buy it that DE's engineers are that useless, even if it's coming from DE themselves.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

DE can't win regardless of whether Gara keeps her glass on or not: someone is gonna dislike her visuals either way.

I'd rather see people spending energy on topics that *actually* affect the game. 

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

12 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

I'd rather see people spending energy on topics that *actually* affect the game. 

End game fashion frame.

[Slayer-.]

 

8 hours ago, (PSN)CambionDrift said:

toggles aren’t some magic piece of code you switch on by turning a one to a zero or some nonsensical fantastical thing like that. Every game I’m in and every forum it’s just people going ‘toggle. Toggle will save us. Have you heard of our lord and saviour cheesy toggle?’

So I wouldn’t hold your breath and I would definitely choose a side in this. I don’t think Gara is popular enough to warrant the resources this would apparently take. 

 

6 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Gara's not the only frame that would benefit from something like this, many frames have parts or effects that people want to be able to swap out or turn off. Rhino's Iron Skin effects, Mesa Prime's chaps, Ivara Prime's skirt, Gara's glass, Nova Deluxe's arms in her casting animation, choosing between Prime and regular casting effects like for Hydroid's tentacles, etc. Adding better support for these kinds of things is long-requested and would definitely be worth the investment.

And we've already got this level of control over many other options:

DE could have hand-waved separate Syandana coloring too as "too hard" or that it "might cause bugs", but they added it anyways. They've made far bigger changes to the game and the engine dozens of times in the past even though it might be hard and cause bugs. They do these things anyways all the time and the game is better for it.

Causing bugs is an excuse, and it isn't even a very good one. I don't buy it that DE's engineers are that useless, even if it's coming from DE themselves.

Exactly toggles are in the game now for fashion framing and other uses.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

5 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

DE can't win regardless of whether Gara keeps her glass on or not

With a toggle DE can vary much win. 

[PublikDomain]

2 hours ago, Slayer-. said:

Exactly toggles are in the game now for fashion framing and other uses.

I will say that it's true that it's never as simple as "just" adding a toggle. It does take time and effort, and it might lead to bugs. The time and effort is really the truth of the matter: making Gara's glass not go away is a lot simpler than properly supporting a more involved feature, and with DE's engineers so busy with everything else it's not really a surprise they don't want to spend time on this kind of thing right now. I wish they'd just say that, though. "We'd like to add that feature when we have a chance" is a lot better than some bogus "it's too hard" when they add much more complicated things all the time. Something like a public roadmap (that isn't scribbled on a borrowed whiteboard) would do a lot more for easing these kinds of requests, sorta like the Trello board the community team has been trying recently.

[ITheRavenI]

On 2021-05-07 at 11:20 PM, [DE]Momaw said:

Adding a toggle adds significantly more complexity to the code and significantly more chances for things to break than just not having the effect at all.

People just wanted the Gara Deluxe to not become bald and egg-headed upon using Splinter Storm. Wouldn't it be less complex and less risky of a solution in terms of creating new bugs to simply update the Gara Deluxe Helmet so when you use Splinter Storm, instead of removing all the glass it breaks the glasses and leaves some of it on her?

To be honest I'm using Gara Deluxe skin with the original helmet right now and I kid you not, I don't even remember what the deluxe helmet looks like. I decided to throw it away without looking at it after I saw how it became bald on Rebs showcase. If you change the Deluxe helmet to the way I described it would give me a reason to give it a second chance but if you simply add a toggle I simply won't be using neither the toggle nor the helmet at all anyway since then I have to switch the toggle every time I'm gonna use the helmet or in case of me deciding to use the helmet, every time I decide to play Gara.

[MoonCrisis]

Please, revert the Gara "QoL" changes. 

They are exactly the opposite of a QoL, now theres no visual indication in Splinter Storm while using her VERY CLUSTERED deluxe skin. Its also imposible to see the shards while using her Prime Ephemera, it obscures the frame till the point that the skill is literally invisible. 

I really dont consider 3 forum post with barely 10 replies as "many, many, many peple wanting it". The change clashes with the description of the ability and the identity of a frame people been playing for years. If some people were bothered by it, they have plenty of other frames to chose from.

People wanted a TOGGLE, not ruining the frame for everybody else. An aesthethic desition that directly collides with gameplay clarity to please 30 forum users is a terrible one.

Thank you.

[16Bitman]

I agree.

While I don't think losing part of your Glass armor is really an impact of game clarity, the UI already makes it clear enough if it is active or not, I really liked a warframe responding with visual changes depending on their abilities.

 

It would be pretty lame if people suddenly decided that 0 Stacks Nidus was the most pleasing to look at and 10+ stacks was removed.

I know people just love their "fashion frame" so much, but you should be more busy looking at the enemies and objective than staring at you Gara if you have splinter storm active.

 

Would it be possible to just add multiple Gara skins? One that adds adaptive armor and one that has static armor? Or would that be as hard to program as a toggle?

[BlackAce]

52 minutes ago, 16Bitman said:

Would it be possible to just add multiple Gara skins? One that adds adaptive armor and one that has static armor? Or would that be as hard to program as a toggle?

This is a good alternative. I don't know how it works under the hood but with skins like Rhino Palatine have different skill effect, I think it's possible.

[MoonCrisis]

hace 5 minutos, acevezwing dijo:

This is a good alternative. I don't know how it works under the hood but with skins like Rhino Palatine have different skill effect, I think it's possible.

I think its just too messy, adding two versions of the same skin is the same as a toggle, and they are not doing it for now.

Point is, theres more than 40 frames that do not shatter their armor, and there is one that does. Why removing something so unique?

They might as well change Xaku too, she is in her skeletal form all the time. 

[Xylena_Lazarow]

2 hours ago, MoonCrisis said:

People wanted a TOGGLE, not ruining the frame for everybody else.

DE has repeatedly stated that coding a toggle would be very difficult. I'd like a better visible timer for the instance of Splinter Storm applied to Gara herself.

[smashedwookie]

20 minutes ago, Xylena_Lazarow said:

DE has repeatedly stated that coding a toggle would be very difficult. I'd like a better visible timer for the instance of Splinter Storm applied to Gara herself.

No all DE said is that coding a toggle could introduce bugs, you know like the bugs they introduce with every patch they release, nothing new here. 

They just took the easy way out on this when what a lot of people wanted was the ability to choose if the glass break or not. they said it was requested many, many times yet they still did not deliver what people were asking. Also forgetting how the forum act as an echoing chamber where vocal minority ask for stuff just make so now you're seeing the other end of spectrum with people displeased by this unilateral change.

[BlackAce]

1 hour ago, MoonCrisis said:

adding two versions of the same skin is the same as a toggle

No. They are not the same. Adding alternate skin is just adding a skin. Put the configuration of whether her glass ornaments are splintered or not. Toggle on the other hand requires more work under the hood.

[MoonCrisis]

hace 14 minutos, smashedwookie dijo:

No all DE said is that coding a toggle could introduce bugs, you know like the bugs they introduce with every patch they release, nothing new here. 

They just took the easy way out on this when what a lot of people wanted was the ability to choose if the glass break or not. they said it was requested many, many times yet they still did not deliver what people were asking. Also forgetting how the forum act as an echoing chamber where vocal minority ask for stuff just make so now you're seeing the other end of spectrum with people displeased by this unilateral change.

This, its only fair to hear the other bell now.

Personally, I already requested a refund to DE and Steam on her deluxe, her regular syandana and her prime accessories. Beyond me not liking the change, this is a bad precedent on DE's part and I dont wanna encourage that.

[smashedwookie]

4 minutes ago, MoonCrisis said:

This, its only fair to hear the other bell now.

Yep and what even more stupid is that doing a toggle for Gara would just be a stepping stone for them, allowing it be done with a few more frame that have similar issue, Xaku come to mind for those that don't like skeletal form.