Crafting timers are kinda old school

[SneakyErvin]

18 hours ago, (PSN)EmilsTekcor said:

Yeah, you grind the materials you get the thing. Why do you think that's such a bad concept? 

That is mostly not how these types of games work. There is always a type of crafting time sink. And we currently have the best version we can get since it is automatic and doesnt require our attention.

Games that tend to have a material only requirement with near instant or instant crafting are those that rely on disposable and degrading items, where instead of a timer or manual crafting you craft often to keep the items available.

[(PSN)EmilsTekcor]

On 2021-08-13 at 5:34 AM, SneakyErvin said:

That is mostly not how these types of games work. There is always a type of crafting time sink. And we currently have the best version we can get since it is automatic and doesnt require our attention.

Games that tend to have a material only requirement with near instant or instant crafting are those that rely on disposable and degrading items, where instead of a timer or manual crafting you craft often to keep the items available.

These types of games? Warframe is it's own thing, it's not a mobile game. Seriously there's no GOOD reason for crafting timers. 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

1 minute ago, (PSN)EmilsTekcor said:

These types of games? Warframe is it's own thing, it's not a mobile game. Seriously there's no GOOD reason for crafting timers. 

There is, it's just up to you to accept the reality.

[SneakyErvin]

5 minutes ago, (PSN)EmilsTekcor said:

These types of games? Warframe is it's own thing, it's not a mobile game. Seriously there's no GOOD reason for crafting timers. 

It has zero to do with mobile games. It's simply online multiplayer rpg crafting mechanics. It's been like that since the mid 90's in one way or another. 

So I guess I should say welcome to online multiplayer rpg gaming!

[Tsukinoki]

52 minutes ago, (PSN)EmilsTekcor said:

These types of games? Warframe is it's own thing, it's not a mobile game. Seriously there's no GOOD reason for crafting timers. 

Here's the thing:
That is how a lot of MMOs do it!

 

There are generally 3 ways online games do crafting:
-Manual Crafting: Where you grind for hours to get the base resources, then you sit down and have to manually craft every component (unable to do anything else while that is happening) and then once that is all done you have to finally craft the final outcome (which again you are unable to do anything while that is happening).  Commonly those games also add in travel time as the various crafting locations that you need to be at aren't right next to each other.
An example of this would be Runescape where to craft a sword you first have to mine for a lot of ores, then you have to travel to the nearest furnace, then you have to smelt the ores into bars, then you sometimes have to travel to another location for an anvil, then you have to forge the bars into the sword.  All of these steps are a large timesink where you can't do anything else except watch the progress bar fill up over and over again (and hope you don't fail too many and lose too many resources)

-Instant Crafting: Where you grind for hours to get the base resources, then you click on a craft button and hope that you don't fail your craft and lose everything.  Even if it doesn't fail you're usually hoping its the right grade.  Either way the end result is something that is generally completely disposable as you're either going to near instantly find better gear or a better blueprint, or the weapon is going to fall apart and break meaning you either spend a lot of resources maintaining it or have to farm and craft over and over and over and over and over again.
This is largely seen the more F2P MMOs, notably the eastern ones from the ones I have tried to pick up here and there.  Sure the item pops out instantly but there are a few caveats: The parts have an abysmal droprate meaning a solid 12+ hours farming for the pieces, and the weapon has a chance of failing wasting all resources or turning out to be a low grade/rarity meaning its trash.  After all who doesn't love spending 12+ hours and getting a white common item instead of a blue epic item because RNG says so?  And even if you get the highest rarity there is a chance the next chest will contain a BP that is many times better...but if you don't craft or buy the gear from a player (if that is even an option) you aren't going to make it far....

-Timer Craft: Where you grind for a while to get the base resources (and generally is much shorter than the other types in this regard) and then click craft and wait.  After the timer goes down you have a new piece of gear.  You trade the convivence of not having to farm for hours upon hours, not having to sit through a manual crafting process, and knowing that you're getting exactly what it says your crafting with no RNG in that department, for having to wait a while.
At least you can continue to play the game.  At least you can continue getting the resources for the next stuff ready and started to build.
And this is the route WF and a few other games decide to go.

 

It's not just "mobile" games that do this.  This is how a ton of MMOs do their crafting.
And out of the three most common options above I'm glad DE just chose the "click and wait" approach to the other options.

[SneakyErvin]

14 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

then you click on a craft button and hope that you don't fail your craft and lose everything. 

Ugh that brings back memories... and not good ones. 😭

[Learicorn]

I'm the kind of person who is always on the customer's side but i have to defend this system :/ A game has to make a profit somehow. 

DE already gives us heaps of content for free, let them have at least this.

Literally all you have to do is nothing. This game has a bunch of problems but monetization is NOT one of them.

[(PSN)Coyote_x_Starrk]

The crafting timers on weapons and warframes themselves I don't really mind because it makes sense to me that it would take time to make such things. Having to wait 12 hours for all the little bits and pieces I need for the warframes and the weapons though is tedious at best in my opinion.

 

 

Grinding for hours and then  having to wait 12 hours just before I have to wait 3 days just to be able to use the thing that I earned with my own time and effort is not a good feeling. 

[Zimzala]

3 hours ago, (PSN)EmilsTekcor said:

These types of games? Warframe is it's own thing, it's not a mobile game. Seriously there's no GOOD reason for crafting timers. 

There is no reason YOU accept, that does not mean in the Subjective and Objective reality that there is not a good reason, only that YOU have decided to not be swayed or convinced that YOUR outlook reigns supreme in the Judgement of Good vs, Bad.

IMO, you just sound like yet another impatient human that demands instant gratification, trained by mobile devices and modern conveniences to think the world exists to cater to your whims.

[(PSN)EmilsTekcor]

7 hours ago, Zimzala said:

There is no reason YOU accept, that does not mean in the Subjective and Objective reality that there is not a good reason, only that YOU have decided to not be swayed or convinced that YOUR outlook reigns supreme in the Judgement of Good vs, Bad.

IMO, you just sound like yet another impatient human that demands instant gratification, trained by mobile devices and modern conveniences to think the world exists to cater to your whims.

That's not a GOOD reason. That's just rude. Honestly only people I've ever heard accusing someone of wanting things handed to them are people who have gone through life with everything handed to them. That's just IMO.

[(PSN)EmilsTekcor]

7 hours ago, Learicorn said:

I'm the kind of person who is always on the customer's side but i have to defend this system :/ A game has to make a profit somehow. 

DE already gives us heaps of content for free, let them have at least this.

Literally all you have to do is nothing. This game has a bunch of problems but monetization is NOT one of them.

They can make money other ways I am fine with that, but monetizing a core game element with a time gate  is just bad design and it hurts the game. 

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

34 minutes ago, (PSN)EmilsTekcor said:

They can make money other ways I am fine with that, but monetizing a core game element with a time gate  is just bad design and it hurts the game. 

The waiting makes impatient people spend cash to speed it up or more cash to straight up get the item they want+slot and reactor if they get a Warframe/Weapon.

Who knows how much they make from it but I'd say it's a good amount, this system is fine you don't babysit the foundry you can go do something else in the game or irl, this isn't comparable to some mobile garbage that limits the amount of rewards you get in a day or mobile games with energy systems that completely remove gameplay from you and you wait till you can play again. 

[SneakyErvin]

15 hours ago, (PSN)EmilsTekcor said:

They can make money other ways I am fine with that, but monetizing a core game element with a time gate  is just bad design and it hurts the game. 

The problem with your thinking is that you think it is tied to the monetization only. It isnt since these types of systems are in place even in sub-based and buy to play games. Those games make zero cash from it. DE simply use a regular system but adds an option to pay your way out of it i.e classic pay-to-skip or pay-to-progress. You have to remember that most of those long crafting timer items are also purchasable straight from the in-game market. So removing the timers would also reduce those sales that some impatient people prioritize.

[(PSN)EmilsTekcor]

7 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

The problem with your thinking is that you think it is tied to the monetization only. It isnt since these types of systems are in place even in sub-based and buy to play games. Those games make zero cash from it. DE simply use a regular system but adds an option to pay your way out of it i.e classic pay-to-skip or pay-to-progress. You have to remember that most of those long crafting timer items are also purchasable straight from the in-game market. So removing the timers would also reduce those sales that some impatient people prioritize.

Name one game where the main system of getting everything has a time gate. Just one. 

[NaerisPrime]

10 hours ago, (PSN)EmilsTekcor said:

Name one game where the main system of getting everything has a time gate. Just one. 

ARK:survival evolved

[SneakyErvin]

22 hours ago, (PSN)EmilsTekcor said:

Name one game where the main system of getting everything has a time gate. Just one. 

Uhm World of Warcraft (and nearly every other online rpg). Which in reality wastes much more time than WF's system.

[Raqiya]

I just don't want a 3 1/2 wait for Warframes. 3 1/2 days is ridiculous. 

[CatboyPrincess]

46 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Uhm World of Warcraft (and nearly every other online rpg). Which in reality wastes much more time than WF's system.

wow is sub based. waste more time => get more money

12 hours ago, NaerisPrime said:

ARK:survival evolved

and it's a terrible game because of it. it's virtually impossible to solo without mods which are exclusive to PC. the entire game is #*!%ing terribly designed. it's actually a complete hot steaming mess.

 

the only reason games like Warframe get away with S#&$ like this is because they have a premium on their own niche. If someone else made an exact duplicate of Warframe but with creating times at 2 seconds globally, it would be a superior game with no room for argument.

It's not a game though. It's a product and moreover a service: and that service is to waste your time amusingly, because life is actually a meaningless hell, which is strictly speaking, factual. Or it's a time-gate to heaven, if you're one of those perma-hallucinators.

What this means is that capitalism is #*!%ing stupid and most people don't know what's good for them, which is why we're entrenched in this nightmare world, with this game that would be outright superior if it were not for the exploitative and inefficient means of production that make people think that this is the best way of doing things. It's obviously not, but just as obviously, people are oblivious and easily fooled, if not outright stupid.

 

but yeah crafting timers are stupid. people who like waiting should just force themselves to wait. don't force the rest of us to wait on you for your own fun, while disrupting our own fun that wouldn't even affect yours.

[SneakyErvin]

3 minutes ago, Gwyndolin-chan said:

the only reason games like Warframe get away with S#&$ like this is because they have a premium on their own niche. If someone else made an exact duplicate of Warframe but with creating times at 2 seconds globally, it would be a superior game with no room for argument.

That assumes that each craft would also yield as much, or that the materials would be as easy to obtain as they are in WF. Imagine going from 100 stacks per craft of certain things to changing them to 2 seconds per single craft (like most game have it with such craft times). It all depends on how the systems and restrictions come together. I wouldnt even want to go back to a game with 2 second crafting timers and an auto-queue, since I still cant do anything else productive in the game when crafing. And if WF would use such a system I would bet my nuts that it would also have a refinement system for materials, so we would need "Refined Ferrite" "Refined Alloy" and such for each common material.

[CatboyPrincess]

Just now, SneakyErvin said:

That assumes that each craft would also yield as much, or that the materials would be as easy to obtain as they are in WF. Imagine going from 100 stacks per craft of certain things to changing them to 2 seconds per single craft (like most game have it with such craft times). It all depends on how the systems and restrictions come together. I wouldnt even want to go back to a game with 2 second crafting timers and an auto-queue, since I still cant do anything else productive in the game when crafing. And if WF would use such a system I would bet my nuts that it would also have a refinement system for materials, so we would need "Refined Ferrite" "Refined Alloy" and such for each common material.

imagine if you read my post exactly as it was written

i will reword:

an exact copy of warframe

everything about this game is the exact same except that

the ONLY difference

is that crafting timers are 2 seconds instead of what they are now

there are NO OTHER differences

just this one

[Digressive]

Locking thread due to toxicity