Crafting timers are kinda old school

[(NSW)Greybones]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

I honestly really like the build timers, and if it were up to me I might even prevent the use of platinum to rush.  There's such a good feeling from putting an item in the oven and knowing that it'll be baked to perfection in a day or 3. It kind of reminds me of being a kid on the night before Xmas.

I get you (not sure I’d cut out plat spending though, since I may or may not have used it before 😒). They’re a necessary evil, but once I accepted that they can sort of just cook in the background, I can appreciate the power of anticipation (it helps that I’m not playing constantly, so sometimes I forgot I’d left the oven on and what comes up is a pleasant surprise instead of a horrible Orbiter fire)

[minininja77]

Go do some crafting research in ESO, you will never complain about the foundry again

[YUNoJump]

2 hours ago, nslay said:

At the same time, it's easy to see a new player bail because it takes 3.5 days to craft Rhino. Driving new players away with lame mechanics is no way to support plat revenue either, right?

DE has the analytics in place to be able to tell if people are actually quitting because of that, so I'm gonna assume that if they saw a lot of players quitting after beginning new warframe crafts, they would have done something by now. New players have lots to do, it's easy for them to set something to craft and then go do something else in the game, like Quests or starchart progression.

 

1 hour ago, (PSN)EmilsTekcor said:

Path of exile doesn't have time gates and they make money.

Path of Exile doesn't have direct time gates, but on the other hand they literally reset your progress whenever they release a new league. That's essentially a time gate, except at least with Warframe's crafting time you don't have to do anything for the time gate to disappear. The map grind also seems to involve a lot of going back to lower-level content just to grind for content relevant to your level; you can't sustain high-level map drops. PoE might not have the same progression gating as Warframe, but it definitely has gating. In fact, PoE just went to Mixed on Steam because so many players are upset at how progression has been changed recently.

[(PSN)EmilsTekcor]

1 minute ago, YUNoJump said:

DE has the analytics in place to be able to tell if people are actually quitting because of that, so I'm gonna assume that if they saw a lot of players quitting after beginning new warframe crafts, they would have done something by now. New players have lots to do, it's easy for them to set something to craft and then go do something else in the game, like Quests or starchart progression.

 

Path of Exile doesn't have direct time gates, but on the other hand they literally reset your progress whenever they release a new league. That's essentially a time gate, except at least with Warframe's crafting time you don't have to do anything for the time gate to disappear. The map grind also seems to involve a lot of going back to lower-level content just to grind for content relevant to your level; you can't sustain high-level map drops. PoE might not have the same progression gating as Warframe, but it definitely has gating. In fact, PoE just went to Mixed on Steam because so many players are upset at how progression has been changed recently.

I need to like handle the path of exile stuff you've said in order cause it's literally all wrong. First of all a league system is not a Time gate if anything it's a time limit which ensures playing as fast as possible in short it's the exact opposite of a Time gate. Also at the end of leagues it doesn't reset your content it puts it in a standard League. Map grinding is absolutely perfectly recyclable and there's never a need to go back and do lower level content unless you want to you're talking to a player that has absolutely done solo self found playthroughs all the way to the elder most leagues. The only semblance of gating that poe has is it's trade system where you need to actually buy inventory in order to trade it through premium inventory boxes. Poe went to mixed because they introduced a massive series of nerfs this league, but they have never gated content. 

DE has a analytics is such a poor excuse, people are already leaving the game because of it. It's a free game where 80% of players don't play 10 hours. You can't run analytics to accurately predict the player base that will stay if they get rid of gating vs if they keep it. It's simply more risky to remove it. 

Don't insult Poe...

[LillyRaccune]

Players are comparing Warframe to Path of Exile? I can't resist the urge to suggest playing "Path of Warframe"!

 

[_R_o_g_u_e_]

4 hours ago, (PSN)EmilsTekcor said:

Like I get it's a free to play game, but I swear crafting timers just cause impatient people to play less and buy less. I've played this game for almost 8 years now, I'm in an alliance with some crazy amount of people and the sheer number of people that drop the game saying that they are done waiting 3 days for a frame where every part took 12 hours to build where every piece took a total of 12 hours to grind is crazy. This is one of my favorite games and that part of the game still feels like clash of clans. It's also such a huge gateway to new players that it's unbelievable, imagine being told you have a free to play game then before you get through your second planet you have to wait 3 1/2 days.

You don’t have to sit there and watch the items in your foundry cook. Yeah it would be nice to have things faster, but you can literally start crafting everything in the market at once, and within a  couple of days it’ll all be finished.

The crafting system really isn’t that bad, and if it was driving players away it would be gone. DE do in fact have access to peoples play statistics.

[YUNoJump]

16 minutes ago, (PSN)EmilsTekcor said:

I need to like handle the path of exile stuff you've said in order cause it's literally all wrong. First of all a league system is not a Time gate if anything it's a time limit which ensures playing as fast as possible in short it's the exact opposite of a Time gate. Also at the end of leagues it doesn't reset your content it puts it in a standard League.

It's a time gate that you can reduce by speedrunning the content, the fact that people speedrun the content to get to maps clearly shows that people don't want to hang around in Acts. One might also just call it padding the playtime each new league. I've heard it said that "Acts are the tutorial".

Sure, the characters are put in Standard. That's irrelevant if you want to actually play new Leagues when they release, because you need to make new characters for each new League. If you only play in Standard for some reason then I guess it doesn't matter, but I'm gonna assume that group is a minority.

35 minutes ago, (PSN)EmilsTekcor said:

Map grinding is absolutely perfectly recyclable and there's never a need to go back and do lower level content unless you want to you're talking to a player that has absolutely done solo self found playthroughs all the way to the elder most leagues.

I'll admit I'm mostly working off of second-hand knowledge from my PoE-vet friends, but if it is possible to sustain maps without resorting to player trading, then there are still plenty of other issues. I believe the current awful grind this League is Logbooks. Other than that, if you don't enjoy the deliberate handicap of SSF, it can apparently be annoying to put together a build you want without either dumping huge piles of consumable resources on rerolling stats, or lots of player trading. Overall it's surely incorrect to say that PoE doesn't have any systems that are designed to slow down progression, rather than extend it.

29 minutes ago, (PSN)EmilsTekcor said:

DE has a analytics is such a poor excuse, people are already leaving the game because of it. It's a free game where 80% of players don't play 10 hours. You can't run analytics to accurately predict the player base that will stay if they get rid of gating vs if they keep it. It's simply more risky to remove it. 

Warframes have taken 3 days to craft since literally day 1. If it was causing that many players to leave, then Warframe would have died years ago.

Of course lots of players don't play free games very long, they're free. There's no risk in trying out a free game, which also means that many people won't really try very hard to get invested in them. If I pay $60 for a new game, I'm gonna try harder to like it, because if I quit then I've wasted $60. Not so for F2P games. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of that 80% of players quits before they even encounter a real time gate, or maybe even before they've finished the tutorial.

[(PSN)thowed]

What games on NES had crafting timers?  I could've said Atari but I have a feeling most people aren't "old school" enough to even remember the NES (not a vague memory of an older relatives either).  I'm talking cartridges for Christmas lol.

[nslay]

1 hour ago, YUNoJump said:

DE has the analytics in place to be able to tell if people are actually quitting because of that, so I'm gonna assume that if they saw a lot of players quitting after beginning new warframe crafts, they would have done something by now. New players have lots to do, it's easy for them to set something to craft and then go do something else in the game, like Quests or starchart progression.

I don't necessarily agree with the assumption that DE cares enough about new players to collect and/or analyze data to find their reasons for leaving the game... and the reason why is simple: They don't really work on promised improvements or enhancements on the now almost-mythical new player experience. They don't really seem to care about new players that much. It's actually kind of concerning because it's almost as if DE plans for no additional growth for the game.

I will say this though... when you come from the Diablo series of games, the foundry is... what's the word? ... cheap-feeling? In one of the earliest responses in this thread, taiiat describes it as feeling like a "mobile game." This is not a positive description and it is one of the first most noticeable aspects of the game for a new player. This game is amazingly better than the cheapo impression instilled by the foundry.

Now let me also say... w.r.t. monetization: Being able to buy Slots is one of the most remarkable features of this game (and I understand this profits DE the most)! Coming from, especially Diablo 3, this does not feel cheap/mobile game-like or anti-player like the foundry does. And for about the price of a AAA game, you can have enough plat to buy practically endless slots for all the good weapons and Warframes in the game.

Heck, I would gladly pay +50% more for slots for greatly reduced crafting times for most items. Or even an additional mechanic like the Rush Repair Drone that is farmable in missions without it feeling dirty like almost pay-to-win (because that's how I view plat spent on anything except Slots).

[xcrimsonlegendx]

To be 100% transparent, this actually happened to me.

I started on Xbox way back when the game first launched on the console, really enjoyed the gameplay and played up until I got to the Howl of the Kubrow quest and was excited to create my very own "dog". So I went along with it, got to the point where I had to farm a Kubrow egg (before they drastically increased the drop chances) and that took what felt like forever, leaving me with a habit that stuck with me to this day, always killing every Kubrow den I see for the eggs... Finally got my egg and crafted an incubator, that took what 12 hours or something. Then I finally started to incubate the thing and I swear it was going to take like a week to incubate. Maybe it was just a false memory caused by how frustrated I was at the time but my memory is still of seeing some massive wait after what I felt was already an incredibly boring grind and I just uninstalled the game.

I didn't play it for years never even thought about it, until I met a friend online that played it on PC. He had gotten an Xbox to play some games with me and convinced me to give Warframe another try. He sent me to the wiki to pick any frame i wanted, I chose Nidus because I like zombies and undead crap like that and I still main Nidus to this day. I got into the game this time, the bad memories faded and I fell in love, I spent money bought skins, progressed pretty far.  But eventually he got homesick because he couldn't play with any of his PC stuff and missed his founders account, so i gave up all my stuff on Xbox and started over on PC. I missed all of my stuff but in a few months I had surpassed my Xbox account and now I'm legendary rank 1 and have pretty much done everything there is to do in the game.

So yeah, now a days I don't care about the timers at all. In fact my massive amount of play time makes me want to say that they're fine as they are but deep down I remember how I felt as a new player and how that stupid Kubrow made me quit the game, just glad my friend came along and convinced me to give it another go.

[Flannoit]

It's less frustrating if you stagger your frame builds. I'm currently collecting all the frames I don't have maxed, and it's much less painful if a different frame is build each day rather than getting them all at once.

[DesertedSpirit]

It’s just another way for DE to make money, has been in the game forever and will never be removed despite every forum thread out there. At the end of the day it’s all about money.

[Tesseract7777]

2 hours ago, (PSN)EmilsTekcor said:

Don't insult Poe...

Do you hear yourself right now? 

Do some self reflection. Re-read your posts. You are nowhere near ready to have a conversation with others about a subject like this in a mature and objective manner, that is incredibly clear. You should cut the attitude before you make yourself look a whole lot worse than you already do. 

If you are going to say this after someone criticizes a game that you brought up as a comparison, you are not ready to have a mature conversation about this. Your attitude also makes it clear you have no interest in discussing, you want to pontificate, and rant that DE hasn't already done what you think is just so logically the only thing to do. It's asinine and you sound like a jerk. You know someone have different opinions about games than you right? And some see things differently? 

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

I believe its there to teach something the tenno should have: patience.

13 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Do you hear yourself right now? 

Do some self reflection. Re-read your posts. You are nowhere NEAR ready to have a conversation with others about a subject like this in a mature and objective manner, that is incredibly clear. You should cut the attitude before you make yourself look a whole lot worse than you already do. 

On the same token, where do you get off telling somebody else what to do?

[Tesseract7777]

 

4 minutes ago, (PSN)Boomstickman98 said:

On the same token, where do you get off telling somebody else what to do? Pot, Kettle, Black.

By the same token, where do you get off saying pot, kettle, black, to me either? 

I'm just giving him some really obvious advice, that his attitude isn't going to fly if he wants to have productive discussions with anyone. And it is true. Anyone who regularly has that attitude while discussing stuff here gains no friends or allies and tends not to have productive discussions. I don't care if you want to haul out some old racist expression about kettles, I said what I said. 

[Angwah]

Eh, we lack the data to properly discuss this.

We neither know how much plat is spent on rushing the foundry nor how many players drop the game over this issue.

I personally never felt the urge to hurry them (might have done it by mistake once though). There are better things to spend it on and at the stage you are building a lot you have about a bazillion other things to do, but who knows, might be a money maker for DE.

Anyway, there are plenty of things that can be done to tighten the NPE, and reviewing this could be part of it. There are after all much more frames and weapons nowadays, but I would first look at putting the base gear, mods and crafting materials you can get in the star map in token vendor shops in the three 'quest hubs'. Add specific planet based dailies/mini-sorties to get extra tokens and guide and boost the new player through progress on the star map and gear up.

[Hayrack]

I uderstand waiting a little longer for research, warframes, key items and weapons, but not allowing bulk craft for utility items, when you have enough resources available (at least x5 units for free, unlimited for plat) is just stupid.

[Invisibleaxeman]

Triple post sowwy!

[Invisibleaxeman]

Triple post sowwy!

[Invisibleaxeman]

8 hours ago, (PSN)EmilsTekcor said:

Path of exile doesn't have time gates and they make money.

Path of exile has inventory space gates.

 

 

[Corvid]

2 minutes ago, Invisibleaxeman said:

Path of exile has inventory space gates.

 

 

In fairness, so does Warframe.

[Invisibleaxeman]

11 minutes ago, Corvid said:

In fairness, so does Warframe.

True, but nowhere near as limiting, in particular warframe gives away slots for free periodically.  And the point is that there is always some combination of gating that allows games to be F2P.  Path of Exile is a great game but you are pushed toward buying stash tabs, causing similar misery to Warframe time-gating unless you pay up, and at least in Warframe you can buy the slots without spending real-life money.

[(XBOX)BONANGER1]

3 days for a new shiny warframe feels like a punishment for farming a boss, specially if you farmed khora or something

that's the only crafting time i don't like, also formas 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

12 hours ago, (PSN)EmilsTekcor said:

Path of exile doesn't have time gates and they make money.

Path of exile is also a terrible game to some people and you couldn't pay me to play it.

[(PSN)EmilsTekcor]

2 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Path of exile is also a terrible game to some people and you couldn't pay me to play it.

You are on ps4 it's terrible on ps4 and besides people say that about Warframe BECAUSE THE CRAFTING TIMERS ARE RIDICULOUS.