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Crafting timers are kinda old school


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Like I get it's a free to play game, but I swear crafting timers just cause impatient people to play less and buy less. I've played this game for almost 8 years now, I'm in an alliance with some crazy amount of people and the sheer number of people that drop the game saying that they are done waiting 3 days for a frame where every part took 12 hours to build where every piece took a total of 12 hours to grind is crazy. This is one of my favorite games and that part of the game still feels like clash of clans. It's also such a huge gateway to new players that it's unbelievable, imagine being told you have a free to play game then before you get through your second planet you have to wait 3 1/2 days.

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the Foundry feels like a Mobile game to you, because that's exactly how that part of the game is designed.
and it isn't old school, those Mobile Games are the most lucrative games in existence.

if it really didn't make Money, it wouldn't be that way. 
yeah, it's anti-fun. but it's effective at making Money.

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time gates are a necessary evil; without them you'll burn through content too quickly and then be left with nothing to do.. and then you'll probably leave the game anyway. the vast majority of the playerbase don't have any level of self-control and this can be exploited - and certainly has been exploited - by game devs for years now. hate me for it if you want, but that's the way it is. 

besides, it doesn't stop you from actually playing the game, it just stops you getting that new shiny for a while; you can always focus on another goal to take your mind off the waiting.

Edited by (PSN)robotwars7
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I honestly really like the build timers, and if it were up to me I might even prevent the use of platinum to rush.  There's such a good feeling from putting an item in the oven and knowing that it'll be baked to perfection in a day or 3. It kind of reminds me of being a kid on the night before Xmas.

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44 minutes ago, (PSN)EmilsTekcor said:

before you get through your second planet you have to wait 3 1/2 days.

What requires that a player waits 3.5 days before getting to Mercury?  Is there a requirement that you build Rhino to go through the Junction now?

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12 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

time gates are a necessary evil; without them you'll burn through content too quickly and then be left with nothing to do.. and then you'll probably leave the game anyway. the vast majority of the playerbase don't have any level of self-control and this can be exploited - and certainly has been exploited - by game devs for years now. hate me for it if you want, but that's the way it is. 

besides, it doesn't stop you from actually playing the game, it just stops you getting that new shiny for a while; you can always focus on another goal to take your mind off the waiting.

Are you okay? Like that's the most bizarre self hating wrong attitude towards improving something and towards a community that I've ever heard. I want the game to be good and waiting 3 days gets in the way of that. To see it as perfect the way it is, is just ridiculous. 

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55 minutes ago, (PSN)EmilsTekcor said:

Like I get it's a free to play game, but I swear crafting timers just cause impatient people to play less and buy less. I've played this game for almost 8 years now, I'm in an alliance with some crazy amount of people and the sheer number of people that drop the game saying that they are done waiting 3 days for a frame where every part took 12 hours to build where every piece took a total of 12 hours to grind is crazy. This is one of my favorite games and that part of the game still feels like clash of clans. It's also such a huge gateway to new players that it's unbelievable, imagine being told you have a free to play game then before you get through your second planet you have to wait 3 1/2 days.

"Old school" is the wrong word for the foundry system. Not even "old school" loot games like Diablo 1 or 2 have ever exhibited such levels of lameness as seen in the foundry system.

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1 minute ago, (PSN)EmilsTekcor said:

Are you okay? Like that's the most bizarre self hating wrong attitude towards improving something and towards a community that I've ever heard. I want the game to be good and waiting 3 days gets in the way of that. To see it as perfect the way it is, is just ridiculous. 

where did I say it was "perfect?" I said "necessary evil"; something that nobody likes, but has to be there because the alternative is technically worse. 

I'd absolutely love foundries to churn out everything instantly for free, but DE need to make money and also space out content to keep players occupied while they make the next piece of content. it's unreasonable to expect any game to give you everything, instantly, for free. 

you accuse me of being miserable because of time gates, yet the reality is that I'm fine with it because I have something to look forward to. If I did everything in a couple days and had nothing else to play for, THEN I'd be more likely to be miserable.

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4 minutes ago, nslay said:

There are white knights in every game. Some people can't see past a brand to objectively point out a black eye in the game... and the foundry system is an infected puss-filled black eye so bad that it is swollen shut. But yeah, DE is a great company and I admire their passion! But yeah, the foundry system is bad for players.

This is code for: "Everyone stop taking me seriously right now and ignore my post, I have no idea how to have a mature conversation". 

That expression needs to be taken out back and shot. It's always the beginning of a dishonest conversation filled with ad hominems from bitter people who cannot stand the thought someone might have a different opinion than them. 

Edited by Tesseract7777
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12 minutes ago, (PSN)EmilsTekcor said:

To see it as perfect the way it is, is just ridiculous. 

No one here is saying crafting times are perfect. Quite the contrary, I'm sure everyone you ask will tell you how annoying they find that system. But there is also people that understands that such system needs to exist for the game to have another source of income. Maybe you should suggest a better alternative that satisfies both the players and the devs, instead of asking to remove it just because you don't like it.

Edited by General-Pacman
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1 minute ago, General-Pacman said:

No one here is saying crafting times are perfect. Quite the contrary, I'm sure everyone you ask will they you how annoying they find that system. But there is also people that understands that such system needs to exist for the game to have another source of income. Maybe you should suggest a better alternative that satisfies both the players and the devs, instead of asking to remove it just because you don't like it.

Pretty much. 

If its so bad, then what's the alternative that is better for players that still makes the game the revenue it needs?

It's a F2P game, so it has to have some revenue streams to exist. P2Skip being a major stream of revenue seems perfectly fair and tolerable to me. I don't see it as a big deal. 

If someone could tell me a way to make Warframe the money it needs, that would be less annoying than the current pay to skip system, I'd be all ears. But making money without putting in some kind of inconvenience that will cause people to pay money to get past the inconvenience doesn't seem realistic. Money doesn't grow on trees. 

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They're not gonna go away, time gates are a staple of the F2P experience in any game. Crafting time results more Plat purchases as people rush it, and probably contributes to people choosing to buy items outright as well, to avoid the time gate and grinding.

Yes it's super cynical to say that, but it's better to accept it and move on than get frustrated enough for it to seriously affect your experience with the game, because there's no way they're gonna go away. The cost of a F2P game is either optional purchases, or time and quality-of-life.

And this may sound white-knightey to some people, but Warframe is actually a much more lenient F2P game than many others; it could be so much worse. The fact that we get the option to obtain power-boosting things like Catalysts and Exilus Adapters without paying is honestly out of the ordinary for a F2P game.

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Just now, Tesseract7777 said:

This is code for: "Everyone stop taking me seriously right now and ignore my post, I have no idea how to have a mature conversation". 

It's not a secret... there are people who appeal so strongly to a notion of brands like "DE" and "Warframe" that they will absolutely positively not acknowledge a problem in the game (even going so far as to defend it). It's not even exclusive to Warframe! Heck, I've even been completely baffled here on this forum by posters who, for example, actually voice support for host migrations of all things... and will even tell you that your opinion doesn't matter and that you should give up. I think your post applies to such people, not to me.

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5 minutes ago, YUNoJump said:

They're not gonna go away, time gates are a staple of the F2P experience in any game. Crafting time results more Plat purchases as people rush it, and probably contributes to people choosing to buy items outright as well, to avoid the time gate and grinding.

Yes it's super cynical to say that, but it's better to accept it and move on than get frustrated enough for it to seriously affect your experience with the game, because there's no way they're gonna go away. The cost of a F2P game is either optional purchases, or time and quality-of-life.

And this may sound white-knightey to some people, but Warframe is actually a much more lenient F2P game than many others; it could be so much worse. The fact that we get the option to obtain power-boosting things like Catalysts and Exilus Adapters without paying is honestly out of the ordinary for a F2P game.

At the same time, it's easy to see a new player bail because it takes 3.5 days to craft Rhino. Driving new players away with lame mechanics is no way to support plat revenue either, right?

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2 minutes ago, YUNoJump said:

They're not gonna go away, time gates are a staple of the F2P experience in any game. Crafting time results more Plat purchases as people rush it, and probably contributes to people choosing to buy items outright as well, to avoid the time gate and grinding.

Yes it's super cynical to say that, but it's better to accept it and move on than get frustrated enough for it to seriously affect your experience with the game, because there's no way they're gonna go away. The cost of a F2P game is either optional purchases, or time and quality-of-life.

And this may sound white-knightey to some people, but Warframe is actually a much more lenient F2P game than many others; it could be so much worse. The fact that we get the option to obtain power-boosting things like Catalysts and Exilus Adapters without paying is honestly out of the ordinary for a F2P game.

Anyone who thinks it sounds like that isn't being honest or reasonable, so I wouldn't worry about it. 

They have consistently been ranked as one of the better F2P experiences. 

Just now, nslay said:

It's not a secret... there are people who appeal so strongly to a notion of brands like "DE" and "Warframe" that they will absolutely positively not acknowledge a problem in the game (even going so far as to defend it). It's not even exclusive to Warframe! Heck, I've even been completely baffled here on this forum by posters who, for example, actually voice support for host migrations of all things... and will even tell you that your opinion doesn't matter and that you should give up. I think your post applies to such people, not to me.

I dislike the expression though, partly I think because its so inaccurate to what you are describing, does that make sense? I don't mean to suggest you are the type of person who frustrates me, but that expression kind of grates on my nerves. 

I think the people you are talking about are more like some SW fans I know. It doesn't matter how bad a piece of content is, they have no interest in critically analzying it. They will go over the lore details FOR DAYS. But critically analyze how well it was made? Never. They just want to "have fun" and "love it for what it is", whatever it is. Anything that interrupts that Care Bears experience is something they simply cannot brook. Their brain shuts down. 

A "white knight" is more akin to what people now call a "simp", they are someone who will make themselves look like a fool in order to defend a girl that doesn't even need defense, because they want to get something. Then, it turns out when the girl doesn't want to give them anything, that they aren't so much of a "nice guy" that they pretended to be. 

The people who are often accused of "white knighting" for DE, tend to be a combination of people who even criticize them regularly who just happen to agree with them in that case, and people who are just blindly loyal fanboys who don't want anything negative to interrupt their roleplay experience. 

But they don't want or expect anything from DE for spending time defending them, they couldn't even imagine that. They just can't accept their fandom being criticized because it is too much of their identity. The cognitive dissonance just is too much for their psyches, so they lash out and defend anything no matter how bad. 

TL;DR: When people talk about white knights, I think what they really mean are just blind fanboys who tend to love their lore/rp/immersion and don't want your negativity interrupting their experience. 

 

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On 2021-08-10 at 6:23 PM, (PSN)Unstar said:

I honestly really like the build timers, and if it were up to me I might even prevent the use of platinum to rush.  There's such a good feeling from putting an item in the oven and knowing that it'll be baked to perfection in a day or 3. It kind of reminds me of being a kid on the night before Xmas.

i like them too. I wouldnt even mind them in offline Single player games. Theres something satisfying about waiting 3 days for a frame. Makes it feel a bit more tangible or something.

It doesnt even feel like a slimy money scheme to me either because ive never felt like i HAD to have something crafted right away, except for forma during a x2XP weekend. 

Edited by Hypernaut1
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43 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Pretty much. 

If its so bad, then what's the alternative that is better for players that still makes the game the revenue it needs?

It's a F2P game, so it has to have some revenue streams to exist. P2Skip being a major stream of revenue seems perfectly fair and tolerable to me. I don't see it as a big deal. 

If someone could tell me a way to make Warframe the money it needs, that would be less annoying than the current pay to skip system, I'd be all ears. But making money without putting in some kind of inconvenience that will cause people to pay money to get past the inconvenience doesn't seem realistic. Money doesn't grow on trees. 

Simple you could have a literal support pack that's like 30-45$ and when you buy it you never have to wait for crafting again, or they could make more cosmetics, or they could make an inventory box that allows players to put items or sets of items for sale and players could automatically search a market and buy those items for plat. The economy is platinum based and making it easier to trade will generate revenue. 

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Another way to look at Foundry is to observe what DE has done recently with this system and similar systems. I think DE knows just how frustrating the foundry can be. From instantaneous crafting of Excalibur Umbra during The Sacrifice, the 23 hour adjustment to Forma crafting time, Kuva/Tenet Weapons and Hounds are instantaneously claimed from the Foundry, to Rush Repair Drones and reduced repair times in Railjack.

DE could have easily made us wait for most of these things in the name of plat revenue. But they didn't do that. Why do you think that is? I think DE knows that the foundry system is not the greatest mechanic for players/plat and that players generally don't like it (well, OK there are some posters here that like it).

EDIT: And let's not forget how Arcanes are no longer crafted, Zaws, Kitguns and KDrives take 1 hour, and fishing supplies are no longer crafted (you buy them instantaneously with standing).

 

Edited by nslay
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I'd just be happy if they'd allow us to instantly delete dogs from the sisters out of the foundry.

after claiming, then deleting the first 8, then searching inventory for their associated weapons to dump those, i stopped bothering.  Now I have 40 dogs in my foundry cluttering it up.

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2 minutes ago, (XBOX)Tucker D Dawg said:

I'd just be happy if they'd allow us to instantly delete dogs from the sisters out of the foundry.

after claiming, then deleting the first 8, then searching inventory for their associated weapons to dump those, i stopped bothering.  Now I have 40 dogs in my foundry cluttering it up.

I have faith that DE will revisit the Hounds problem... though I fear Hounds may become a lot harder to get!

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1 hour ago, YUNoJump said:

They're not gonna go away, time gates are a staple of the F2P experience in any game. Crafting time results more Plat purchases as people rush it, and probably contributes to people choosing to buy items outright as well, to avoid the time gate and grinding.

Yes it's super cynical to say that, but it's better to accept it and move on than get frustrated enough for it to seriously affect your experience with the game, because there's no way they're gonna go away. The cost of a F2P game is either optional purchases, or time and quality-of-life.

And this may sound white-knightey to some people, but Warframe is actually a much more lenient F2P game than many others; it could be so much worse. The fact that we get the option to obtain power-boosting things like Catalysts and Exilus Adapters without paying is honestly out of the ordinary for a F2P game.

Path of exile doesn't have time gates and they make money.

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