Wait a minute don't we have cure for infestation?

[Atsia]

2 minutes ago, LillyRaccune said:

That would be cool. I just think there would be a few complications if their brains were in a different location from their bodies.

BTW How did Father leave the Necralisk in the first place? They can't walk, right? I know we had to fetch him during the opening quest... I just kinda thought they were glued in place except for that plot hole. Maybe they move around like Jugulus? They are all a part of the same infested progenitor? Trying to make sense of this is confusing.

Probably the same way Mother moves around, by spawning through those flower things.

[GrayArchon]

5 hours ago, Atsia said:

Well no, her putting us under is the Second Dream.

Nope. Going under is the first dream. Going under again, into the warframes, is the second dream.

This is what Lotus says when talking about Transference (controlling the warframes): "It felt like waking up, but it was just a lucid second dream." We were already asleep, and then put into a deeper dream – a second dream. The second dream is called such because the Tenno were already asleep.

[GrayArchon]

5 hours ago, LillyRaccune said:

BTW How did Father leave the Necralisk in the first place? They can't walk, right? I know we had to fetch him during the opening quest... I just kinda thought they were glued in place except for that plot hole. Maybe they move around like Jugulus? They are all a part of the same infested progenitor?

I think they can move their bodies. Mother and Grandmother pop up in multiple places all over the Cambion Drift, and I always pictured them as being able to travel within the Infested substrate of Deimos, but always attached to it. During the quest, Father is shown out on the Drift and Son actually shows up in the cave systems.

[SneakyErvin]

19 hours ago, GrayArchon said:

Here's the timeline:

The Tenno are rescued from the derelict Zariman. Margulis tries to help them, and gets blinded in the process, because the Tenno can't control their powers. So she puts them to sleep.

• "This will stop the voices from taking hold. You will have to dream, my angel…."
• "She put us into the dream, brought us peace."
• "We couldn't help it, the outbursts. We hurt her, blinded her, but even then, she never abandoned us. In the dream we found peace, and she sang to us in that cold, dark…."
• "In dreams we could control it, focus it. So she made the pods, her favourite flower…."

This is the 'first dream'. It was just a dream, no surrogate bodies. Margulis worked to heal them of their trauma ("brought us peace") by interacting with them through the dream. This is likely when she sealed away their memories of the Zariman, as Teshin reveals later.

Margulis may have been executed at this point. The Second Dream quest sort of implies that she does, but the Silver Grove quest later says that Margulis was present at a later time point, so it's sort of up in the air. Regardless, it doesn't change the rest of the timeline.

What happens next is that some Orokin researchers working on the Warframe Project (the proto-warframes Ballas talks about during The Sacrifice), which was at the time unrelated to the Tenno but located nearby, discover that the dreaming Tenno can control the proto-warframes and stop them from rampaging. This is detailed in the Rhino Prime Codex entry. Once this is realised, the Tenno Project and the Warframe Project are unified, and the Tenno are put into a 'second dream' that allows them to control the warframes. This is when Ballas and his fellow Executor have their conversation about the Tenno ("I know we are desperate, Executor, but these aren't Dax soldiers. These are golems, possessed by devil minds."), and presumably after this, Ballas is put in charge of the Warframe Project, and Silvana is brought on around this time as well, and the Project begins churning out warriors to fight against the Sentients.

Silvana admires Margulis personally, so she definitely would be interested in meeting her, and afterwards she talks about Margulis likes she knows her personally. This is why I think Margulis was actually involved in the Project long after it was converted into a weapons project.

You have the timeline screwed up. The proto-frames are created while Silvana is part of the project. This happens with or without Margulis depending on if she was executed in the second dream transcript or if it happens later. The Rhino Prime entry doesnt happen until later down the line, after the proto frames have gone insane, or in the case of Titania stayed loyal to their creator and dying to save them. The talk that Ballas has with the executor is about the surrogates, which is why Ballas orders the transference project to focus on the surrogate aspect to make frames, at this point the kids are locked away again or have been since before the trial. Margulis is on trial for trying to rehabilitate the children.

Later on after Margulis has been executed, Ballas re-opens and finalizes the transference project after the Rhino Prime entry has happened. This is without Silvana since at that point she has escaped to Earth already and have had Dax death squads sent after her aswell, which resulted in Titania dying while protecting Silvana. Silvana later on by the looks of it dies to transference when she tries to get the Helminth to re-invigorate/cleanse earth. Getting stuck inside the grove that is infused by the Helminth. edit: This is also likely the reason why there are specters, since Silvanas mind is part of the biotechnological forest, so she has blueprints of frames in there somewhere, which she likey manages to produce specters of to protect the grove. Though these specter probably dont use Granum tech but instead are pure Helminth clones.

Silvana has probably had a chance to work with Margulis on the transference project prior to the trial, but maybe not on the warframes since Margulis may or may not have been executed right then and there. Chances are that Silvana is the one that actually made the surrogate bodies for the tenno since she was an infestation biologist on Earth.

 

[BahamutKaiser]

21 hours ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

No, they cannot. Only the Orokin know how to convert people to Cephalons, dude. How are you ignorant of the lore? The only living Orokin we currently know are Ballas, the Entrati and Nihil. Ballas is with the Sentients, the Entrati never worked with the glassmaking operation used to make Cephalons and Nihil is currently in prison. Use your big brain here. No one can turn the Entrati into Cephalons. That requires them to glass and convert their ENTIRE body, which currently cannot be done, on account that the Entrati don't have singular bodies anymore, they are fused with the damn moon they reside on. Solaris citizens are not robots either, dude, they are cyborgs. Big difference. Robots are MOA's, osprey's, etc.

If only someone defeated Nihil and brought his equipment to Entrati for experimentation, hmm, I wonder what Loid and Otak would think of the idea... their brains might be big enough.

[(XBOX)Rez090]

19 minutes ago, BahamutKaiser said:

If only someone defeated Nihil and brought his equipment to Entrati for experimentation, hmm, I wonder what Loid and Otak would think of the idea... their brains might be big enough.

What equipment? What you would need resides in his head. Knowledge is what is needed, not equipment. You also do realize we didn't obtain his equipment from the fight. We only gained the Vitrica, nothing else. The Vitrica is a pale imitation of what is possible with glassing.

[BahamutKaiser]

It would work. 

[Lakais]

All good. But one detail is that Infestation comes in many strains. Some are more agressive then others. Some infested organisms can even be directly hostile to one-another as seen in Fass and Vome. 

In my understanding infestation is not so much a disease as it is an organic self-replicating and self-propagating nano-swarm. A disease in only the loosest sense. It can and will rebuild the infected person or creature and can use biomass to replicate patterns as seen in the uniformity of various infested creatures and even wildlife in the Cambion Drift. 
I will argue that the Entrati family are not infected anymore. They ARE a strain or a pattern of infection that still thinks it's the person they are based on. Much like Mercer from the Prototype game; he is not an infected person, he's an infected mass that thinks it's a person. The Entrati through some cosmic throw of the dice managed to remain somewhat intact as individuals. 

A point is that some diseases simply can't be "cured". The flu, for example. The reason it still persists after decades of research and medical progress is because the damn thing just mutates and evolves like a madlad and the best we can hope to do is come up with vaccines for the more agressive strains. 
Moreover, what is the Infestation? Depending on if it's a virus or a bacteria, the path to a cure is very different. Vaccines do very little against bacterial infections and viruses couldn't care less for antibiotics. And if the infestation is a biological nano-machine swarm, then all bets are off as it's something entirely different. 

Though one point of thought are the feral kavats who hunt and eat infestation without getting infected themselves. That smells like an avenue of research to at the very least create immunity or otherwise diminish the spread and probability of infection. 

[GrayArchon]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

The proto-frames are created while Silvana is part of the project.

Silvana is brought in to create surrogate bodies for the Tenno. We know this because she is recruited for her Infestation biology skills ("I'll be working with one of my childhood heroes, Archimedian Margulis! On comms she said she needed the best Infestation biologist there was…"), and because she was working with the Tenno ("I don't blame Margulis; she's as much a victim as the children we're working with. At first, the project seemed therapeutic and nurturing.") The only time both Tenno and Helminth Infested entities were together is when the Orokin started using the Tenno for the Warframe Project and the children were put into the second dream. If Silvana had been working with the proto-frames, there would be no children, but she was working with children from the start of her involvement.

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

The Rhino Prime entry doesnt happen until later down the line, after the proto frames have gone insane, or in the case of Titania stayed loyal to their creator and dying to save them.

The Rhino Prime entry depicts when the Orokin first realised that the Tenno could link to the warframes. It was revolutionary. It must have occurred long before Silvana was brought on, because Silvana was working with both Tenno and warframes – two components that would not be united until after Rhino Prime. Titania was not a proto-frame, because she was built to be used by Tenno. Silvana talks about "linking to Titania the way only Tenno can stand".

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

The talk that Ballas has with the executor is about the surrogates, which is why Ballas orders the transference project to focus on the surrogate aspect to make frames, at this point the kids are locked away again or have been since before the trial. Margulis is on trial for trying to rehabilitate the children.

Later on after Margulis has been executed, Ballas re-opens and finalizes the transference project after the Rhino Prime entry has happened. This is without Silvana since at that point she has escaped to Earth already and have had Dax death squads sent after her aswell, which resulted in Titania dying while protecting Silvana.

Your timeline has a bunch of extra steps in it. The surrogates are the frames (proto-frames at first, then warframes as we classically understand them). There doesn't seem to have been a time where surrogates were used solely for therapeutic purposes; although that may have been the line sold to Margulis and Silvana, we have never seen any indication that Transference was used with surrogates other than the weaponised warframes.

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Getting stuck inside the grove that is infused by the Helminth.

The Grove doesn't have any Helminth in it. It's just genetically engineered trees imbued with Silvana's consciousness. There is no Helminth presence except for Titania's body, and as you have noted (in that other thread about Nidus Prime), warframes don't spread their Helminth infection when deployed on missions (except for the neck cyst, which only infects other warframes).

[Culaio]

The gold materials OP thinks are some "tau materials" are most likely just type of orokin organic technology and have nothing to do with tau. Orokin used many types of organic technology unrelated to infestation, like the white trees , they are both used as deocorations in oroking archtecture and as type of cables, there is some evidence that that white tree "cables" are somehow tied to void seeing how they used in things tied to void like transference chair, reliquary drive, void towers, the pods in which operators were stored. 

I went a bit off topic here talking about organic technology but that was to show how extensively  orokin used organic technology, now I will explain how it ties to gold materials, we know from cetus that oroking tower is organic inside, its even capable of regenerating organic parts, thats what people from cetus are harvesting, but its on orb vallis is where we see how orokin buildings are "constructed", or should I say GROWN, if you look under central coolant tower in the orb vallis you will see golden tendrils, if you then look at one of three craters on the orb vallis: Ustara, Astra and Harindi you will see that same golden tendrils coming from "orb" in the center, orb that looks like object you can find at " the pearl" on the map, that alone wouldnt be enough evidence to prove that Orokin were growing their buildings from those golden  orbs, but if you look at top left corner of the map  you will see unfinished orokin coolant tower and when you look in the bottom middle of it there are golden tendrils coming from same type of orb. those golden tendrils spread through unfinished walls of  coolant tower.

So yeah the gold in orokin stuff IS special, it just has NOTHING to do with tau.

----

On topic  of umbra frames, ANY frame can be umbra frame, it doesnt have to be made from person who went through trauma, in the orginal leaked script for war within quest it was exactly said what is umbra:

Operator:

"Teshin, what was that? What is Umbra?"

Teshin:

"A fury untamed by Tenno control. A rogue Warframe."

 

Also Excalibur umbra is NOT first encounter with umbra in the lore, rhino prime codex mentions out of control frame(possibly rhino) shovelling a heap of gore into its mouth.

Another example is technically the very frame you used during second dream quest, it acted on its own without operator control when it broken the sword which means lorewise it may become umbra, which means that litereally ANY frame has potential to become umbra.

[ChaoticEdge]

On 2021-10-03 at 4:56 AM, Atsia said:

Oh yeah, you very much don't know what you're talking about. There is literally nothing called "Tau Material" in the game.

 

They didn't. The Orokin gave no damns about material, they just wanted another system to live in. there are no material in the first place the had an interest in.

 

They literally made the Helminth Strain themselves. Ballas says as much in The Sacrifice.

 

1. They did, it is elemental and it is a materials for say so in lore

2. No they actually did why do you think they sent in the prob all the way in the deepest darkest in the blackest space which they try find new planets and conquer it and turn it into one their play things, why do you think there were so many slave grineers, and corpus who is always end up in dept to the orokin then again that is in LORE PROOF FACT that the grineer were mining asteroid field mining materials, corpus who is always in dept to the orokin for WHY WOULD GRANDNUM STOLE THE BIG NICE GEM ON THE GATE!    Didn't you forget both faction don't know what was secret to their power and they been going on endless blood bath in secrets for it wasn't the tenno who been doing the murdering say so in Rhino Prime's codex.  They even had codex about where Ballas say "you knew what we were going do" and he was talking to the sentient because the sentient had enough rubbish because they knew they trash the 1st planet then 2nd one was actually terra forming but it was really thanks to the material Tau for these puppy guys were the technological high uses for orokin and these were the golden cup for why do you think

3. Incorrect, he never said "he actually made it" for it was "CLAIM IT WAS ACCIDENT" before Ballas mess with warframe strains for he only created Ember that was told what he did in his time.  He didn't go off making warframes for he said every single one of them turn out rejects trash for the fact he didn't design the infested to infect the orokin for he would of been sent to the Jade Light if he actually did made the infestation going rampage. 

On 2021-10-03 at 10:39 AM, 73yearsold said:

*snip*

I'm not listing ur trash meme because you want bash someone that is consider a type of progress "bullying"

On 2021-10-03 at 8:59 AM, Brinstar7777 said:

The entrati are way, way, way to far gone for the cure to be even remotely effective. Besides, we're dealing with the grey strain here, the cure might not even work on it.

that is why either improvised cure or be naw away by the gray strain and become (do apologized to offend anyone) mentally unstable.

 

On 2021-10-02 at 10:49 PM, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

See now, I can call you a *censor* here. IF NO OROKIN HAS EVER BEEN TO THE TAU SYSTEM, HOW THE HELL WOULD THEY BE ABLE TO GIVE THE SENTIENTS MATERIALS FROM THAT DAMN SYSTEM?!? THE DAMN SENTIENTS WERE NOT MADE WITH TAU MATERIALS, THEY WERE MADE IN THE SOL/ORIGIN SYSTEM USING MATERIALS FROM THIS SOLAR SYSTEM! WHAT THE HELL IS A PROB DRONE??? THE SENTIENTS WERE DESIGNED FOR TERRAFORMING, THEY WERE SENT TO THE TAU SYSTEM TO TERRAFORM IT FOR FUTURE COLONIZATION! YOU SIR ARE A *ceonsor!!!

You had no clue dude, it is NOT A SYSTEM Tau is actually a MATERIAL THAT IS WHY THERE IS ELEMENTAL TAU SYMBOL IF U GET HIT BY IT ON UR WARFRAME!  If grab "umbra mods" it said "Tau Resistance" it is a element, IT IS A MATERIAL, IT IS A SCI-FICTION MATERIAL ADDED TO THE GAME!  If you get Adaptation mod and get hit by the sentient laser beam it is A ELEMENTAL MATERIAL FOR IT COUNTED AS TO BE.

[(XBOX)Rez090]

On 2021-10-04 at 11:25 PM, ChaoticEdge said:

1. They did, it is elemental and it is a materials for say so in lore

2. No they actually did why do you think they sent in the prob all the way in the deepest darkest in the blackest space which they try find new planets and conquer it and turn it into one their play things, why do you think there were so many slave grineers, and corpus who is always end up in dept to the orokin then again that is in LORE PROOF FACT that the grineer were mining asteroid field mining materials, corpus who is always in dept to the orokin for WHY WOULD GRANDNUM STOLE THE BIG NICE GEM ON THE GATE!    Didn't you forget both faction don't know what was secret to their power and they been going on endless blood bath in secrets for it wasn't the tenno who been doing the murdering say so in Rhino Prime's codex.  They even had codex about where Ballas say "you knew what we were going do" and he was talking to the sentient because the sentient had enough rubbish because they knew they trash the 1st planet then 2nd one was actually terra forming but it was really thanks to the material Tau for these puppy guys were the technological high uses for orokin and these were the golden cup for why do you think

3. Incorrect, he never said "he actually made it" for it was "CLAIM IT WAS ACCIDENT" before Ballas mess with warframe strains for he only created Ember that was told what he did in his time.  He didn't go off making warframes for he said every single one of them turn out rejects trash for the fact he didn't design the infested to infect the orokin for he would of been sent to the Jade Light if he actually did made the infestation going rampage. 

You had no clue dude, it is NOT A SYSTEM Tau is actually a MATERIAL THAT IS WHY THERE IS ELEMENTAL TAU SYMBOL IF U GET HIT BY IT ON UR WARFRAME!  If grab "umbra mods" it said "Tau Resistance" it is a element, IT IS A MATERIAL, IT IS A SCI-FICTION MATERIAL ADDED TO THE GAME!  If you get Adaptation mod and get hit by the sentient laser beam it is A ELEMENTAL MATERIAL FOR IT COUNTED AS TO BE.

Tau is a damn solar system. There is LITERALLY A REAL LIFE SOLAR SYSTEM WITH TAU IN THE BLOODY DAMN NAME! There is no damn materials in the entire game that are called Tau. Please, enlighten us with where you think in the lore it mentions ANYTHING about "Tau" materials. And what the hell is a prob drone??? There is no such thing in the game or lore called a "prob" drone. Are you even using an english word?

The only thing I can think of when you keep saying "prob" is you keep forgetting that you need an E on the end to say PROBE. I've never seen any entry in the game that states the Orokin ever sent a scout drone to Tau. And are you trying to say that tellurium is a "Tau" material, because if so that is a very flimsy argument, since the description of tellurium states that no one knows where it comes from.

[Jackel7]

On 2021-09-30 at 8:36 PM, Aldain said:

Considering how they are physiologically integrated to the infestation to an alarming degree, this is a sensible conclusion in that many life-preserving functions of their bodies are likely heavily supported by it, presumably replacing some major vital organs entirely, attempting to cure them would probably run a fair risk of causing massive organ failure and considering they are Orokin similar to Ballas, it is also highly unlikely that appropriate replacement organs could be procured or produced, and that is assuming that Orokin follow any sort of medical logic that we know of.

Also there are Different stains of the infestation 

[Atsia]

3 hours ago, ChaoticEdge said:

corpus who is always in dept to the orokin for WHY WOULD GRANDNUM STOLE THE BIG NICE GEM ON THE GATE!  

Cause he though he deserved it. Granum wasn't in debt to anyone, he was just poor. And the Corpus as a whole weren't even a thing until Granum came around .

3 hours ago, ChaoticEdge said:

They did, it is elemental and it is a materials for say so in lore

Point out anywhere it says "Tau Material" if you would please. Exact words.

3 hours ago, ChaoticEdge said:

Incorrect, he never said "he actually made it" for it was "CLAIM IT WAS ACCIDENT" before Ballas mess with warframe strains for he only created Ember that was told what he did in his time. 

Well no, you're actually wrong here. Ballas' exact words from The Sacrifice-

"We cultured the Infestation, conceiving of a hybrid. Transformed, but only just. The 'Helminth' was created, born to yield these new warriors, worthy of battle against you."

So yes, Ballas was making frame prototypes, and was directly in charge of the actual Warframe Project, all but said during the Silver Grove when Silvana says Ballas is looking over her work. Plus, every single Prime Trailer. Let's say Gara Prime specifically, what has her come to Ballas directly about becoming a frame, and him making her glass themed to spite Nihil.

4 hours ago, ChaoticEdge said:

You had no clue dude, it is NOT A SYSTEM Tau is actually a MATERIAL THAT IS WHY THERE IS ELEMENTAL TAU SYMBOL IF U GET HIT BY IT ON UR WARFRAME!  If grab "umbra mods" it said "Tau Resistance" it is a element, IT IS A MATERIAL, IT IS A SCI-FICTION MATERIAL ADDED TO THE GAME!  If you get Adaptation mod and get hit by the sentient laser beam it is A ELEMENTAL MATERIAL FOR IT COUNTED AS TO BE.

No it is. Tau is literally only ever referred to as place by characters, the Operator in Second Dream, directly in the Detron Crewman Imprint. It is first and foremost, the star system the Sentient we're sent to terraform. Direct quote from the Detron Crewman Imprint saying so.

"I tried to catch my breath and speak, “The crossing to the Tau system is perilous. Adaptation and replication are the only way a terraforming journey can be made. They will build an interstellar rail as they travel, they will adapt to the host planet and prepare it for our arrival. They will save you.”

As I said, you very clearly have not been paying attention to the lore.

[Drachnyn]

Yup, this is a chaoticedge thread alright.

[SneakyErvin]

16 hours ago, GrayArchon said:

Silvana is brought in to create surrogate bodies for the Tenno. We know this because she is recruited for her Infestation biology skills ("I'll be working with one of my childhood heroes, Archimedian Margulis! On comms she said she needed the best Infestation biologist there was…"), and because she was working with the Tenno ("I don't blame Margulis; she's as much a victim as the children we're working with. At first, the project seemed therapeutic and nurturing.") The only time both Tenno and Helminth Infested entities were together is when the Orokin started using the Tenno for the Warframe Project and the children were put into the second dream. If Silvana had been working with the proto-frames, there would be no children, but she was working with children from the start of her involvement.

The Rhino Prime entry depicts when the Orokin first realised that the Tenno could link to the warframes. It was revolutionary. It must have occurred long before Silvana was brought on, because Silvana was working with both Tenno and warframes – two components that would not be united until after Rhino Prime. Titania was not a proto-frame, because she was built to be used by Tenno. Silvana talks about "linking to Titania the way only Tenno can stand".

Your timeline has a bunch of extra steps in it. The surrogates are the frames (proto-frames at first, then warframes as we classically understand them). There doesn't seem to have been a time where surrogates were used solely for therapeutic purposes; although that may have been the line sold to Margulis and Silvana, we have never seen any indication that Transference was used with surrogates other than the weaponised warframes.

The Grove doesn't have any Helminth in it. It's just genetically engineered trees imbued with Silvana's consciousness. There is no Helminth presence except for Titania's body, and as you have noted (in that other thread about Nidus Prime), warframes don't spread their Helminth infection when deployed on missions (except for the neck cyst, which only infects other warframes).

You left out the part after "At first the project seemed therapeutic and nurturing", which is when Silvana mentions that they now had to build frames instead. And clearly no, it wasnt just when the orokin started using the tenno for the warframe project that tenno and helminth were together. They were together in the surrogates that Silvana created i.e the so called golems Ballas refers to.

No Rhino Prime is after, a good while after. Silvana is no longer with the Orokin at that point. The whole project surrounding transference is shut down at that point and have been for long. Ballas is the one who restarts and completes all of that after the discovery in the Rhino entry. Titania is a proto-frame, which is why it can willfully follow Silvana back to Earth. Yes Silvana tries to link with it like the tenno with the surrogates, but that doesnt mean it isnt a proto, it just means Silvana had her hopes up figuring something new out as she plans on leaving. Since the frame is practically made up of the same things as the tenno's surrogates. But obviously since the transference project never was completed they dont know the full range of why the tenno are so strong.

The surrogates are different. Ballas convesation with the executor shows that, because he talks about golems controlled by devils. The proto frames were not controlled, which is why they went "insane" and for the most part turned on the orokin. They were designed for war after the trial, they were not designed prior to it in order to help rehabilitate the tenno. And you say transference wasnt never used with surrogates, yes silvana states the following "But now... Transference therapy is being turned into a weapon.". What other therapy besides the surrogates do you imply got turned into weapons?

There is Helminth in the forest, it is the tech Silvana stole and brought with her in hopes it could do what she couldnt manage to do earlier. Not so very odd since she knows it interacts with living things and alters them.

Also, a reason we have evidence that Titania is a proto is because Silvana mentions one of the things she stole, which is "Somatics", these are according the the very game we play part of early warframe prototypes. We also have evidence that Titania is a proto since according to The Silver Grove quest Silvana is already "dead" and transference trapped inside the forest when the Dax come to burn her. This means the Titania acted 100% on her own, which only protos did. Unless of course you're gonna say Silvana is more powerful than a void infused tenno and can use transference on several different things at once, even though she strained herself and only got a glimpse of a tortured mind when she tried to link with Titania initially.

[Atsia]

On 2021-10-05 at 7:47 AM, SneakyErvin said:

No Rhino Prime is after, a good while after. Silvana is no longer with the Orokin at that point. The whole project surrounding transference is shut down at that point and have been for long

Except she can't be gone by then by her own dialogue. She was involved with the Warframe Project at the same time the Tenno were. There's no other reason to even mention "the kids" of she wasn't around to see them be weaponized. Hell, she directly mentions Tenno by name, referencing how they're the only ones that can link to a Warframe.

On 2021-10-05 at 7:47 AM, SneakyErvin said:

There is Helminth in the forest, it is the tech Silvana stole and brought with her in hopes it could do what she couldnt manage to do earlier. Not so very odd since she knows it interacts with living things and alters them.

That's a big claim when she directly says the only thing she took were the Apothics and some somatics. There's no reason to think The Silver Grove is infested.

[Atsia]

23 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

There is Helminth in the forest, it is the tech Silvana stole and brought with her in hopes it could do what she couldnt manage to do earlier. Not so very odd since she knows it interacts with living things and alters them.

That's a big claim when she directly says the only thing she took were somatics. There's no reason to think The Silver Grove is infested.

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, Atsia said:

Except she can't be gone by then by her own dialogue. She was involved with the Warframe Project at the same time the Tenno were. There's no other reason to even mention "the kids" of she wasn't around to see them be weaponized. Hell, she directly mentions Tenno by name, referencing how they're the only ones that can link to a Warframe.

That's a big claim when she directly says the only thing she took were the Apothics and some somatics. There's no reason to think The Silver Grove is infested.

No, those are two different points in time. She works with the tenno prior to the warframe project. Prior to her infestation research is turned into warmachines. Rhino Prime's entry happens after that, after the first frames have turned on the orokin by going "insane". The only thing left at that point is her research, but Silvana herself is back on Earth. Rhino Prime takes place during a time when the Orokin still try to "fix" the faults in the frames. Like the scientist mentions in the entry, they've gone through countless subjects at that point. This is likely also what Ballas hints at with his "put to death" comment in the covert message to Hunhow.

Of course not infested, it is infused with the Helminth. Which is why Silvana can even try to link with it and ends up getting stuck in the forest through transference death. Helminth is the only thing that surrogates, frames and the forest have incommon when it comes to the transference project that we know of. It also become quite clear when you listen to the Helminth in your orbiter, about how it can bring both life and death, and how living substance it its domain etc. And the somatics in question are also part of the neural network of the frames, so are very likely made up of both helminth and host. I dont think Silvana just tossed somatics and apothics randomly at the forest, she likely used to the two to create what she needed.

[Atsia]

Except Sunrise Apothic cannot have happened before Rhino Prime Codex

"Ballas is beyond pleased... but when I look at what I've built... at Titania, I feel sick creep up my throat. I hate her, a killer made by a healer. No more. I'm going back to where I belong, no matter the cost. I'm going back to the trees to find myself again.

These past weeks, I've been secretly testing Transference on myself. I can only survive short bursts - linking to Titania the way only Tenno can stand. I've never felt anything like it. A tortured presence, like an evil ink, staining my mind. But... it worked. I'm going to use this wrong to make right.

I'll stowaway with Earth-bound cargo. Just my apothics and these slapdash Somatics I've stolen. By nightfall I'll be home again in my tent under those bitter, acid skies. This time I'm going to fix it. I will seed a mighty forest, stronger than history... and by my will, use it to bring life."

Titania could only have been made after Rhino Prime for the transference line to make sense with the overall timeline of events, emphasis mine. She's still making frames at a point where they know Transference to them is possible, and has not left for Earth yet,

 

[ChaoticEdge]

On 2021-10-04 at 11:31 PM, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

-snip-

again ur not reading it PROPERLY, in the description, they did that is where you have to DIG OLD STUFF!  Tau is a material it is NOT MADE BY SENTIENT the only system is the orokin program it into it's brain because THEY ARE ORIGINALLY ARE FROM CEPHLONS!  They are relate to Cephlons and Tau materials is the orokin use to make sure whatever materials they shape is properly what they want but they are very rare and impossible have hand on unless you go straight to the sources for WHY DID YOU THINK THEY SENT THE PROBE IN THE DEEPEST DARKEST SPACE BECAUSE THEY JUST RAN OUT OF IT THAT IS WHY YOU DON"T SEE TAU MATERIALS ANYWHERE ON EVERY SOLAR SYSTEM FOR THE SENTIENT USE IT ALL TO FIGHT AGAINST OROKINS!  As again, the orokin has plenty and yet I wasn't referring tellurium for LOOK AT IT WHEN IT IS ELEMENTAL DMG TYPE FOR IT IS NOT A SYSTEM IT IS A LOVING MATERIAL THAT THE TAU USE TO RIP OUR FRAME TO SHREDS!

Another player by "for claim" wrote on youtube

This guy lead small things but he doesn't know it is a materials the SAME TIME nor doesn't know that the TAU SYSTEM ORIGINALLY CAME FROM THESE METAL IMPOSSIBLE COME BY for creating a special for the sentient which the orokin created them and "TRIED" send a probe out there to "farm these materials" then these probe that got a cephlon's brain attach to it for they couldn't come up any name for they end up coming up with the materials they are built with and calling it the "Tau System" that probably is Steve's fault here the same time don't want "CLARIFY" IN LORE!  For at least I cleaned it up some his mess.  These sentient uses the Tau elemental as "their system" that is become their main uses that is why they were using every weapons from massive laser firing power that cut armor like butter and energy shield like it was stabbing it though easily like thin paper.  As again, Steve did avoid questions and dodging it to "ANSWER IT" for ppl were trying comment "Did the sentient had Tau system was made by elemental Tau" for millions cover that chat on twitch for no one want to look for it nor want to find it.

So these sentient weren't made the tau system before hand and a "new element" they were "GIVEN A ELEMENT" and "LEARN IT USE THE MATERIALS THAT IS TAU" as they "CREATED IT THEIR WAY AS THEY CALL IT A SYSTEM" I swear if Steve deiced change the story once again like they were force to change Lotus's story (for someone "USE TO HAVE A RECORDING" that Natah was actual sentient single person as herself and Lotus was single person then they change it because they have to rewrite the story and lots of yelling from China during the time because they don't want this or that in something isn't pose to be in the game).

Once again, the developer like to rewrite things again like they always do just like the 1st quest as example, the tenno spawn wasn't in the forest, it was in the VOID for they were ORIGINALLY FROM MERCURY where captin vor was at but then again if I recall it they had us spawn in cold planet where captin vor show up killing a soldier for he wanted the promotion for he found it as tenno woke up there, the 2nd time they rewrite the starter story they threw the beginner players on EARTH but this time still got the cyro pods again for still stuck that good old warframe in that pod, the 3rd time they rewrite it was actually pure on a person searching the tenno or warframe though the rainning storm and so on stuff.  No one keeping track how many time the dev rewrite the stories?  Now originally, they had Lotus as normal person for does ANYONE REMEMBER DARK SECTOR BEFORE IT BECAME WARFRAME?

Spoiler

 

We were THIS CLOSE and start remembering that someone had argument that they don't want human in the machine (the dev went bio-machine for yes this is where we got infested change the story)  Keep this in mind, the dev always will change the lore, as description the DEV DID NOT SAID IT IS NOT A MATERIAL THAT TAU IS for the dev will say it is a "system" or "claim it is system" but it doesn't make sense there for they might rewrite it again later and say "it's both" that next to know for the Dev Never declare is the Tau is actually extra material that come to mind of cephlons probe machine to think to use Tau's name that the materials it came from and just called "Tau System" for I don't blame them they just called themselves "Tau System" because it is material is way harder then steel for it would of been one thous moment Steve probably had good idea while he was drunk then all the sudden forgot the catch phrase for the sentient could of say to the players.

On 2021-10-05 at 3:37 AM, Atsia said:

Cause he though he deserved it. Granum wasn't in debt to anyone, he was just poor. And the Corpus as a whole weren't even a thing until Granum came around .

Keep in mind the corpus was peasant to the orokin but still treated them like slave and cause massive in dept for Ganum stole it because he "hate" the orokin for quote on quote from Granum "our master grow fat and plump" which he stole it so they don't have to enslave themselves away to the orokin because they who isn't pure orokin, that is why the grineer "who were builder" just tick off the orokin because they push the tantrum button too far, then we got the simple corpus being push too far with debts must paid.

On 2021-10-05 at 3:37 AM, Atsia said:

Point out anywhere it says "Tau Material" if you would please. Exact words.

Neither you can't find Why did they turn their back on their own master, oh wait I already said it.

On 2021-10-05 at 3:37 AM, Atsia said:

Well no, you're actually wrong here. Ballas' exact words from The Sacrifice-

"We cultured the Infestation, conceiving of a hybrid. Transformed, but only just. The 'Helminth' was created, born to yield these new warriors, worthy of battle against you."

So yes, Ballas was making frame prototypes, and was directly in charge of the actual Warframe Project, all but said during the Silver Grove when Silvana says Ballas is looking over her work. Plus, every single Prime Trailer. Let's say Gara Prime specifically, what has her come to Ballas directly about becoming a frame, and him making her glass themed to spite Nihil.

Yea, "CULTURED" by meaning tumor, as helminith is only simple was born which they did gone off to find a infested can be "CONTROLLED" thus they took sample of it to "CREATE" Helminth, in terms if these "black strain" are the original from Eris that started Helminith's project then it is possible to simple input or risk grabbing it this is why I said "it is possible chance Eris is the original infested where it started" the gray strain was brought in in demios we all know it the same accident happen as we already consider one of the accident happen but we already know that the sample of that black goo where Arlos use to turn ppl into warframe likeness but more of twisted horror way as result is we know that black goo is probably the original infestation that create a warframe that started the Helminith's project.  As again, the dev might change that because 1 thing they don't want to be predictable and they want utter chaos as they hate someone who get close to the answer or close solving it as they just want to shake up the ant's farm house really hard.  

On 2021-10-05 at 3:37 AM, Atsia said:

No it is. Tau is literally only ever referred to as place by characters, the Operator in Second Dream, directly in the Detron Crewman Imprint. It is first and foremost, the star system the Sentient we're sent to terraform. Direct quote from the Detron Crewman Imprint saying so.

"I tried to catch my breath and speak, “The crossing to the Tau system is perilous. Adaptation and replication are the only way a terraforming journey can be made. They will build an interstellar rail as they travel, they will adapt to the host planet and prepare it for our arrival. They will save you.”

As I said, you very clearly have not been paying attention to the lore.

incorrect, you weren't paying attention, these sentient change during the "Old War" why do you think they adapted so many tech even the one where Solars the planet was not operative by the orokin no more, they evac the place as some tech left behind as the Tau already adapt the tech the orokin was throwing at it thus already know "how to terraforming" why do you think they know how make their own body as a giant ship and was able to hide then again none explain how these sentient got dug under deepest and frozen in ocean and in deepest caven (Ironicly I am surpised the dev didn't change "that story).  Keep it in mind, "I DID SAID PROBE" they were sent to find other "PLANETS" for they came back deny their master for Ballas said "You knew what we were doing" because he talks on and on that the sentient knew that they were looking for more planets outside the solar system but the sentient turn back the ship and decied to go to war because the sentient were "planet lover" and find "orokin a planet destroyer" and they learn that the materials they gave for them and turn against them for they just decied to take what is from the orokin already made because they didn't built into the sentient to auto terraforming once landed for they learn it already for who know where or what planet they decied to take from the orokin to copy their tech for "REPLICATION" for they replicate the orokin's tech (that is why we got laser gun from the orokin for orokin got thous sentry orokin they have as they turn that slash laser into tau elemental).

______________________________________________________________________________________

reducing derailing, I am always thinking possible cure or control the infested how the original orokin did it that able control the infestations or to cure it though elemental tau for either way pick your poison.

P.S I won't be back for while again, because right now I am not cleaning up Dev's lore if they are keeping disorganized "lore" it is better for the dev higher a guy to "correct the lore" because if warhammer 40k lore maker guy see their lore is utter in a mess and still is so far because due of "grineer", "corpus", "orokin", "regular ppl", "sentient" and tenno for the WH40k lore maker would flip his table and gathering all the dev into a deep long meeting room until they are finish correcting the lore of warframe.