Prime Resurgence Dev Workshop & FAQ

[Astral_AEther]

il y a 34 minutes, Rin01 a dit :

cannot just be made available all the time, forever?

IIRC mostly the bloat of the drop tables

GL faming some Saryn relics when ALL non-Vault relics are possible to drop

[SephirothWS]

13 minutes ago, Astral_AEther said:

GL faming some Saryn relics when ALL non-Vault relics are possible to drop

Moving to a currency like this, there's ZERO reason to have to keep things on a rotating cycle tho. Think about it. You earn Aya (Not Paya, mind you) in place of relics, and you just pick and choose the relic you want with the Aya. ... Zero technical reason for a rotating schedule anymore.

You want Saryn Relics? Just convert your Aya over to Saryn Relics...

[iPathos]

27 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

That's just absurd.

I swear if it was said solely based on how much Endo costs to buy from the market...disillusioned doesn't begin to describe the problem here. 50 Plat for 400 Endo and 100 Plat for 1000 Endo is so ridiculously beyond the pale that it's nearly worse than the Raya pricing model alone.

Buuut it's SneakyErvin we're talking about, so.

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

You should run this event 3 times per year so as to get through most of, if not all of the primes. 

[TomaLevine]

3 hours ago, Thordd said:

There is some irony that the people who most dislike this new currency are also the ones who are quick to say that dont need any Prime items anymore because they have them all already.  My point is that those people who already have everything are not the ones DE is appealing to with the new currency.  fwiw the new currency is lame and over-complicated but DE wanted more revenue and this is what DE came up with to achieve more revenue.

I dislike the new currency for several reasons. The biggest being multiple MTX currencies are something used by the really scummy game devs to trick or confuse their customers, and I really don't like seeing warframe going in that direction. I would love to see DE add a way to get the vaulted prime stuff that feels fair, and at the time of my post the prices listed were different and it was more expensive that buying them from the market when they came out of the vault. They've changed those prices now though so they're about the same.

I still don't really see a need for a whole new premium currency though. The free one is fine, and is  a nice way to try to get prime stuff you need when it's up for a week. But the other one? Why is it give us money to buy a new currency then spend that currency during the couple of months the event is going on; instead of just give us money to buy what you want while the event is going on? They're basically unvaulting the stuff for a week and adding extra steps to buy it.

1 hour ago, SephirothWS said:

Moving to a currency like this, there's ZERO reason to have to keep things on a rotating cycle tho. Think about it. You earn Aya (Not Paya, mind you) in place of relics, and you just pick and choose the relic you want with the Aya. ... Zero technical reason for a rotating schedule anymore.

You want Saryn Relics? Just convert your Aya over to Saryn Relics...

I really like this idea, though it'd only apply to weapons and frames, so there'd still have to be some kind of way to pay for the accessories, glyphs, extractors, and so on, and naturally DE would still have to find a way to sell the prime frames and weapons as well for money. Maybe they should just remove the rotating cycle completely, use the earned Aya to buy whatever relics you want (so the drop tables aren't cluttered) and just have all the frames/weapons/accessories available to buy for cash off the market at all times. New prime still still costs more for a time (what's the current high price time?) then has the price drop to what all the others are (maybe have their relics cost 2 Aya for that time instead of 1 to drive cash sales). That removes the ever bloating vaulted problem, people can still earn warframes and weapons without bloated drop tables (not to mention the frustration of trying to farm a specific relic), there's still incentive to buy the primes for cash, you still have to buy the accessories for cash, and you don't have to wait for an unvaulting or event to get the prime stuff you want.

[GwinKyblood]

evento podre kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk
bagulho caríssimo pra comprar acessório, jesus do céu ta maluuuuuuuuuuuuuco
ja tenho tudo vlw

[Degaz3000]

How it started  

How it's going 

[Lokidus_Prime]

Going through the list of all the Prime Access, both vaulted and not, paints a clearer picture on just how skewed the pricing for regal aya is, and unfortunately not in our favor.  Part of the problem is there isn't a consistent value for primed accessories, since some PAs only came with 2 accessories, while others have 3 or more (if counting individual items).  Primed Vault typically releases with 2 accessories for each frame, but many of the later PAs released with more than 2 accessories, which either makes it so that PVs  either cant release all the stuff from that PA in the unvault at once, or there'd have to be more than 2 accessories available for that frame's PV. What is clear though, is that at its current given price, no primed accessory should cost 3 regal aya aka the equivalent of a PV accessory pack- no PA ever came with a single accessory to be even remotely priced that high.  

Lets say the Raya costs for items were set to the following :

Items that cost 3 Regal Aya:

•     armor sets
•     sentinel accessories
•     operator accessories
•     primed warframe
•     primed archwing

Items that cost 2 Regal Aya:

•     primed weapons
•     syandanas
•     vehicle skins (landing craft, and eventually necramech + archwing)
•     ephemeras
•     companion armors
•     companion fur patterns
•     Primed alt helmet (mesa)

Items that cost 1 Regal Aya:

•     prime noggles
•     sigils
•     sugatras
•     extractors
•     primed glyph sets
•     primed shawzin (eventually)

 

Now if we apply this to some of the current Prime Vault packs, we get this:

Nyx Accessories Pack - $20 =  4 Regal Aya

• armor set (3 raya)
• sugatra (1 raya)
• 200 plat

Nyx P Pack - $40 = x12 Regal Aya

• frame (3 raya)
• weapons x2 (4 raya)
• armor set (3 raya)
• sugatra (1 raya)
• glyphs x2  (1 raya)
• 400 plat

Rhino + Nyx Pack - $60 = x23 Regal Aya

• frame x2 (6 raya)
• weapons x4 (8 raya)
• sugatra (1 raya)
• extractor (1 raya)
• armor set (3 raya)
• syandana (2 raya)
• glyphs x4 (2 raya)
• 1200 plat

 

Now if we take these items prices and apply em in a manner that aligns with Prime Vault packs more effectively, Regal Aya packs should be priced to something like what's shown below:

- Regal Aya x6 = $20, aka PV Accessories pack equivalent

• sometimes a frame comes with multiple higher value accessories , such as a syandana + armor set, or even more, like Mesa Prime who comes with an alt helmet (2), sugatra (1), and operator accessories (3).  Giving this amount would cover pretty much any accessories that came with any given PA
• this also aligns with the current price of single frame packs listed in the dev workshop (6 regal aya - 7, but with a 1 raya discount) and lets people choose whether to use it for the accessories or the bare bones frame+weapons packs
• 200 plat included to match what's given in the PV accessories packs

- Regal Aya x14 = $40, aka PV Single Primed Frame Pack equivalent

•  the amount given covers the cost of the frame (3), 2 weapons (4), and their accessories (5~7, counting glyphs).
• can also serve as an option for those who just want to get the dual frame pack (listed in dev workshop for 10 r.aya) and have some extra to spend on a couple accessories if desired
• 400 plat included to match what's given in the PV Single Frame packs

- Regal Aya x28 = $60, aka PV Dual Primed Frame Pack equivalent

• the amount given covers the cost of 2 frames (6), 4 weapons (8), and their accessories (8~14, counting glyphs)
• 1200 plat included to match what's given in the PV Dual Frame packs

 

The more I look at it, the more obvious it is that DE intentionally set this all up in a predatory manor, trying to convince people that its an equal conversion when it's plain as day that it isn't.  As a long-time player, it's really disheartening to see a promising idea that could address the prime vault issue, only to be tainted by these awful prices, full-well knowing that they're designed to take advantage of people who don't know any better.  DE, you are better than this... you WERE better than this.  This game didn't come this far with you guys pulling this kind of stuff over the playerbase, and doing so now is only going to lead further down a dangerous slippery slope.  It probably won't happen, but I  really.. REALLY hope that you listen to the feedback on this and apply good changes before shipping it.  As futile as it may be, I just hope that you fix this before you slip past the point of no return.

Edit: this post was made before I was aware that there was a price change to the Regal Aya, so a bunch of these numbers are probably off now.

[Degaz3000]

@Lokidus_Prime Using your scenario with the real cost of Regal Aya we get this:

Regal Aya x6 = $20, PV Accessories pack equivalent is actually $40

Regal Aya x14 = $40, PV Single Primed Frame Pack equivalent is actually $80

Regal Aya x28 = $60, PV Dual Primed Frame Pack equivalent is actually $160

[Lokanahta]

I was looking forward to perhaps picking up the accessories I'm missing, but I'll probably skip for now. This whole fiasco is confusing, convoluted, and I'm not even sure the value is worth it right now. :/

I totally plan on picking up the prime parts I'm missing, since I'm only missing a few, and then I guess I'll just call it a day, lol.

[iPathos]

7 minutes ago, Degaz3000 said:

@Lokidus_Prime Using your scenario with the real cost of Regal Aya we get this:

Regal Aya x6 = $20, PV Accessories pack equivalent is actually $40

Regal Aya x14 = $40, PV Single Primed Frame Pack equivalent is actually $80

Regal Aya x28 = $60, PV Dual Primed Frame Pack equivalent is actually $160

"Now if we take these items prices and apply em in a manner that aligns with Prime Vault packs more effectively, Regal Aya packs should be priced to something like what's shown below:"
Ideal prices, not actual.

On another note, very well-written summary of the whole situation and some nice suggestions that I hope DE take to heart @Lokidus_Prime!

[sapphicReprobate]

Il y a 3 heures, SneakyErvin a dit :

The value of the Endo is far higher than the Platinum we get in the dual bundles for instance, so the value is balanced when you consider real money.

Dang your math is worse than DE's, 1200 plat will buy you 374,000 endo on Warframe Market right now with no haggling or shopping. 50k is actively ludicrous as a replacement.

[PublikDomain]

4 hours ago, Lokidus_Prime said:

Going through the list of all the Prime Access, both vaulted and not, paints a clearer picture on just how skewed the pricing for regal aya is, and unfortunately not in our favor.  Part of the problem is there isn't a consistent value for primed accessories, since some PAs only came with 2 accessories, while others have 3 or more (if counting individual items).  Primed Vault typically releases with 2 accessories for each frame, but many of the later PAs released with more than 2 accessories, which either makes it so that PVs  either cant release all the stuff from that PA in the unvault at once, or there'd have to be more than 2 accessories available for that frame's PV. What is clear though, is that at its current given price, no primed accessory should cost 3 regal aya aka the equivalent of a PV accessory pack- no PA ever came with a single accessory to be even remotely priced that high.  

Lets say the Raya costs for items were set to the following :

Items that cost 3 Regal Aya:

•     armor sets
•     sentinel accessories
•     operator accessories
•     primed warframe
•     primed archwing

Items that cost 2 Regal Aya:

•     primed weapons
•     syandanas
•     vehicle skins (landing craft, and eventually necramech + archwing)
•     ephemeras
•     companion armors
•     companion fur patterns
•     Primed alt helmet (mesa)

Items that cost 1 Regal Aya:

•     prime noggles
•     sigils
•     sugatras
•     extractors
•     primed glyph sets
•     primed shawzin (eventually)

 

Now if we apply this to some of the current Prime Vault packs, we get this:

Nyx Accessories Pack - $20 =  4 Regal Aya

• armor set (3 raya)
• sugatra (1 raya)
• 200 plat

Nyx P Pack - $40 = x12 Regal Aya

• frame (3 raya)
• weapons x2 (4 raya)
• armor set (3 raya)
• sugatra (1 raya)
• glyphs x2  (1 raya)
• 400 plat

Rhino + Nyx Pack - $60 = x23 Regal Aya

• frame x2 (6 raya)
• weapons x4 (8 raya)
• sugatra (1 raya)
• extractor (1 raya)
• armor set (3 raya)
• syandana (2 raya)
• glyphs x4 (2 raya)
• 1200 plat

 

Now if we take these items prices and apply em in a manner that aligns with Prime Vault packs more effectively, Regal Aya packs should be priced to something like what's shown below:

- Regal Aya x6 = $20, aka PV Accessories pack equivalent

• sometimes a frame comes with multiple higher value accessories , such as a syandana + armor set, or even more, like Mesa Prime who comes with an alt helmet (2), sugatra (1), and operator accessories (3).  Giving this amount would cover pretty much any accessories that came with any given PA
• this also aligns with the current price of single frame packs listed in the dev workshop (6 regal aya - 7, but with a 1 raya discount) and lets people choose whether to use it for the accessories or the bare bones frame+weapons packs
• 200 plat included to match what's given in the PV accessories packs

- Regal Aya x14 = $40, aka PV Single Primed Frame Pack equivalent

•  the amount given covers the cost of the frame (3), 2 weapons (4), and their accessories (5~7, counting glyphs).
• can also serve as an option for those who just want to get the dual frame pack (listed in dev workshop for 10 r.aya) and have some extra to spend on a couple accessories if desired
• 400 plat included to match what's given in the PV Single Frame packs

- Regal Aya x28 = $60, aka PV Dual Primed Frame Pack equivalent

• the amount given covers the cost of 2 frames (6), 4 weapons (8), and their accessories (8~14, counting glyphs)
• 1200 plat included to match what's given in the PV Dual Frame packs

 

The more I look at it, the more obvious it is that DE intentionally set this all up in a predatory manor, trying to convince people that its an equal conversion when it's plain as day that it isn't.  As a long-time player, it's really disheartening to see a promising idea that could address the prime vault issue, only to be tainted by these awful prices, full-well knowing that they're designed to take advantage of people who don't know any better.  DE, you are better than this... you WERE better than this.  This game didn't come this far with you guys pulling this kind of stuff over the playerbase, and doing so now is only going to lead further down a dangerous slippery slope.  It probably won't happen, but I  really.. REALLY hope that you listen to the feedback on this and apply good changes before shipping it.  As futile as it may be, I just hope that you fix this before you slip past the point of no return.

 

Their website and the OP have been updated with newer Regal Aya prices.

Spoiler

On 2021-11-02 at 12:05 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

Prime Accessories that were previously valued at 3 Regal Aya have been changed to 2 Regal Aya. This includes:

• Prime Armor Sets
• Prime Operator Accessories and the Saita Prime Suit
• Kavasa Kubrow Prime Set

And for added transparency on specific Regal Aya values per item: 

• Prime Syandanas = 2 Regal Aya
• Prime Sugatras = 1 Regal Aya 
• Prime Sigils = 1 Regal Aya 
• Prime Sentinel Accessories = 1 Regal Aya 
• Prime Liset Skin & Decoration = 1 Regal Aya 
• Prime Extractors & Blueprints = 1 Regal Aya 

So your "what if" numbers are off.

If we apply DE's new values to every planned resurgence:

Spoiler

Resurgence	Accessories Only	Total Regal Aya Cost (Individual Items)	Bundle	Total Regal Aya Cost (Individual Items)
Mag	Targis Prime Armor Set (2), Distilling Extractor Prime (1)	3	Mag Prime (3), Boar Prime (2), Dakra Prime (2), Targis Prime Armor Set (2), Distilling Extractor Prime (1)	10
Nova	Edo Prime Armor Set (2), Velorum Prime Sigil (1)	3	Nova Prime (3), Soma Prime (2), Vasto Prime (2), Edo Prime Armor Set (2), Velorum Prime Sigil (1)	10
Limbo	Oblivia Prime Syandana (2), Rift Walker Prime Sigil (1)	3	Limbo Prime (3), Pyrana Prime (2), Destreza Prime (2), Oblivia Prime Syandana (2), Rift Walker Prime Sigil (1)	10
Trinity	Kavasa Prime Kubrow Armor (2), Naviga Prime Sugatra (1)	3	Trinity Prime (3), Dual Kamas Prime (2), Kavasa Prime Kubrow Collar (1-2), Kavasa Prime Kubrow Armor (2), Naviga Prime Sugatra (1)	9-10
Mesa	Operator Prime Accessories(2), Cholla Prime Sugatra (1), Mesa Prime Montesa Helmet (1?)	4?	Mesa Prime (3), Akjagara Prime (2), Redeemer Prime (2), Operator Prime Accessories(2), Cholla Prime Sugatra (1), Mesa Prime Montesa Helmet (1?)	11?
Hydroid	Spritsail Prime Armor (2), Sardin Prime Sugatra (1)	3	Hydroid Prime (3), Nami Skyla Prime (2), Ballistica Prime (2), Spritsail Prime Armor (2), Sardin Prime Sugatra (1)	10
Volt	Edo Prime Armor (2), Kazeru Prime Sugatra (1)	3	Volt Prime (3), Odonata Prime (2-3), Edo Prime Armor (2), Kazeru Prime Sugatra (1)	8-9
Loki	Summus Prime Sentinel Accessories (1), Daman Prime Sugatra (1)	2	Loki Prime (3), Bo Prime (2), Wyrm Prime (2), Summus Prime Sentinel Accessories (1), Daman Prime Sugatra (1)	9
Vauban	Citadella Prime Syandana (2), Cateno Prime Sugatra (1)	3	Vauban Prime (3), Akstiletto Prime (2), Fragor Prime (2), Citadella Prime Syandana (2), Cateno Prime Sugatra (1)	10
Ash	Yamako Prime Syandana (2), Unda Prime Sentinel Accessories (1)	3	Ash Prime (3), Vectis Prime (2), Carrier Prime (2), Yamako Prime Syandana (2), Unda Prime Sentinel Accessories (1)	10
Oberon	Sukira Prime Syandana (2), Aroka Prime Sugatra (1)	3	Oberon Prime (3), Sybaris Prime (2), Silva & Aegis Prime (2), Sukira Prime Syandana (2), Aroka Prime Sugatra (1)	10
Nekros	Uru Prime Syandana (2), Acanthus Prime Armor (2)	4	Nekros Prime (3), Tigris Prime (2), Galatine Prime (2), Uru Prime Syandana (2), Acanthus Prime Armor (2)	11
Saryn	Cycuta Prime Syandana (2), Cycuta Prime Sigil (1)	3	Saryn Prime (3), Spira Prime (2), Nikana Prime (2), Cycuta Prime Syandana (2), Cycuta Prime Sigil (1)	10
Valkyr	Saita Prime Suit (2), Liset Prime Skin (1)	3	Valkyr Prime (3), Cernos Prime (2), Venka Prime (2), Saita Prime Suit (2), Liset Prime Skin (1)	10
Ember	Pyra Prime Syandana (2), Titan Extractor Prime & Blueprint (1)	3	Ember Prime (3), Sicarus Prime (2), Glaive Prime (2), Pyra Prime Syandana (2), Titan Extractor Prime & Blueprint (1)	10
Frost	Misa Prime Syandana (2), Titan Extractor Prime & Blueprint (1)	3	Frost Prime (3), Latron Prime (2), Reaper Prime (2), Misa Prime Syandana (2), Titan Extractor Prime & Blueprint (1)	10
Nyx	Targis Prime Armor Set (2), Vala Prime Sugatra (1)	3	Nyx Prime (3), Scindo Prime (2), Hikou Prime (2), Targis Prime Armor Set (2), Vala Prime Sugatra (1)	10
Rhino	Noru Prime Syandana (2), Distilling Extractor Prime (1)	3	Rhino Prime (3), Ankyros Prime (2), Boltor Prime (2), Noru Prime Syandana (2), Distilling Extractor Prime (1)	10

Accessories are 3 total Regal Aya, with the exception of Mesa Prime (because of her extra helmet), Loki Prime (who only has two small cosmetics), and Nekros Prime (who has two large cosmetics).

Full vault packs are 6 total Regal Aya and you get 10 Regal Aya worth of items, with the exceptions of Trinity (unknown how the Kavasa collar is priced), Mesa (unknown how her extra helmet is priced), Volt (has no weapon and it's unknown how the Odonota Prime is priced), Loki (no large cosmetic), and Nekros (two large cosmetics).

So as far as Regal Aya is concerned, the tokens themselves now line up with today's updated values. There are a few discrepancies but nothing horrible.

---

Edit: Peeking through the subreddit I saw a suggestion to just reduce the Regal Aya costs on any one-off accessories that run over the 3 Regal Aya limit. That would make the Operator Prime Accessories in the Mesa resurgence 1 Regal Aya and make the Uru Prime Syandana in the Nekros resurgence 1 Regal Aya. Then all of the cosmetics sets would be 3 total Regal Aya, with the exception of Loki Prime's set which would be 2 (which is fine).

---

Plat still needs to be factored in, which should be easy:

• 3x Regal Aya + 200p - $19.99 USD
  • Matches the current $19.99 USD accessories pack
  • Buys you 1 large and 1 small cosmetic
• 7x Regal Aya + 400p - $39.99 USD
  • Matches the current $39.99 USD pack plus one "free" Regal Aya
  • Buys you one pack (6), plus one spare Regal Aya to spend on whatever
• 12x Regal Aya + 1,200p - $59.99 USD
  • Matches the current $59.99 USD dual pack plus two "free" Regal Aya
  • Buys you one dual pack (10), plus two spare Regal Aya to spend on whatever

Spoiler

 

[Slayer-.]

 

9 hours ago, (XBOX)AMONGTHEWEAK said:

I was wondering if this is an update to test the waters for a new premium currency for the trade economy disparity among the different platforms for cross save. 

I hope not, it's a crock of crap to introduce a new currency, why not just bring consoles in line with PC and we all pay the same price with Platinum.

[(XBOX)LadyWinterstorm]

Since there's no platinum why not just make all the accessories 1 Regal each.

Replace Endo with Resource/Affinity boosters in packs

Sell 2 Noggles for 1 Regal (Whoever is paired with who e.g Ember & Frost, Mag & Nova) 

[Voltage]

2 hours ago, Lokidus_Prime said:

The more I look at it, the more obvious it is that DE intentionally set this all up in a predatory manor, trying to convince people that its an equal conversion when it's plain as day that it isn't.  As a long-time player, it's really disheartening to see a promising idea that could address the prime vault issue, only to be tainted by these awful prices, full-well knowing that they're designed to take advantage of people who don't know any better.  DE, you are better than this... you WERE better than this.  This game didn't come this far with you guys pulling this kind of stuff over the playerbase, and doing so now is only going to lead further down a dangerous slippery slope.  It probably won't happen, but I  really.. REALLY hope that you listen to the feedback on this and apply good changes before shipping it.  As futile as it may be, I just hope that you fix this before you slip past the point of no return.

The real kicker is how many unaware supporters the game has that are defending this system without seeing the implications and going around telling people who do see these red flags that they are wrong. 

DE really needs to start taking the feedback system more seriously before committing to marketing material and assets because this sort of thing could have been caught in the design phase should players have known. This is a fundamental problem that lies in how Devstreams have become a PR stream rather than actually addressing development concerns and how far along systems are when they appear on a Dev Workshop. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the idea of this system, but the execution is just bad. The fact many long-term players don't seem to be trusted on these matters when they are consistently right is unfortunate and just a waste of potential.

In what world does Platinum, a premium currency that can buy you a slice of most of the game have any comparable traits of value to a resource like Endo with one use? Their justification on this decision is insulting to read for anyone who knows the game well, and it pains me that there will be many unknowing players that will not see a major issue with this because they don't have a grasp on the game or its history to understand why this is terrible.

5 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

The value of the Endo is far higher than the Platinum we get in the dual bundles for instance, so the value is balanced when you consider real money. Then if you need the endo or not is another question, some do, some dont.

Okay then would you be fine with Credit caches instead that reflect the cost of High Roller Credit bundles? New players need Credits too right?

You see why the Endo for Platinum swap is just plain bad correct?

Whether people need Endo or not has nothing to do with the discussion point, it's the fact Platinum can effectively do the following:

• Buy Market items
  • Warframes
  • Weapons
  • Necramechs
  • Forma/Aura Forma
  • Catalysts/Reactors/Exilus Adapters
  • Slots
  • Archwing
  • Cosmetics
  • Tennogen (Console exclusive)
  • Major Update collections
  • Boosters
  • Resources
  • and more!
• Trade
  • Endo
  • Riven Mods
  • Mods
  • Relics
  • Prime Parts
  • Event/Exclusive weapons
  • Baro Ki'teer items
  • and more!

Endo can do the following:

• Fuse Mods

Endo is not a currency nor should it ever be compared to one in terms of "value".

[Lokidus_Prime]

55 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Their website and the OP have been updated with newer Regal Aya prices.

Thanks for letting me know, I didn't realize the prices had been updated by the time I made my post.

@Voltage 100% agree with your post, the devs need to take feedback into consideration much more. And yes, Endo replacing plat is a horrible move, and so are the "evergreen" options for Regal Aya.

[TheLexiConArtist]

17 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Okay then would you be fine with Credit caches instead that reflect the cost of High Roller Credit bundles? New players need Credits too right?

You see why the Endo for Platinum swap is just plain bad correct?

Whether people need Endo or not has nothing to do with the discussion point, it's the fact Platinum can effectively do the following:

--snip many

Endo can do the following:

• Fuse Mods

Endo is not a currency nor should it ever be compared to one in terms of "value".

The hilarious irony is that, despite being meme-tier worthless of a plat purchase, credits actually do more than Endo does. Even if it's just going into "craft BPs" and "fuse mods", that's already twice as many avenues as the Endo.

But both are still completely incomparable to the actual value of Plat.

[PublikDomain]

19 minutes ago, Lokidus_Prime said:

Thanks for letting me know, I didn't realize the prices had been updated by the time I made my post.

I hadn't known either until around midday. They really needed to make a separate post about it because it's just going to remain unseen over the weekend. Half of the issues are now addressed, all that's left is the plat.

[Lumi_Official]

Does the price for the Armor just reduced from 3 aya to 2?

Nice.

[Voltage]

1 hour ago, PublikDomain said:

I hadn't known either until around midday. They really needed to make a separate post about it because it's just going to remain unseen over the weekend. Half of the issues are now addressed, all that's left is the plat.

Pretty much this. The system itself is extremely good, but the execution just missed the mark. Most of the issues with it are math related in my opinion and an easy fix, but there are design choices that are questionable and need to be discussed more (namely the Platinum removal). The double downing on not giving Platinum has me worried, because I feel like they know what they are doing.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

I really tried to give you the benefit of the doubt when you said that $20 worth of RA was enough to buy prime accessory, in that it meant $20 worth of RA was enough to buy the equivalent of the current $20 pack that comes with multiple accessories and plat.  It was bad enough that it wasn't going to come with the plat.

But you're really telling us that the intention was for people to pay for $20 worth of RA just for an armor set even though before (and right now.) that same $20 gets you the armor, another accessory and plat?

Oh, but now you've dropped it by a whole RA, so it's supposed to be all good, right?  Except the plat is still 100% part of the value and no amount of "it's for the flexibility" or other hand waiving changes that.  You are removing value from things you have sold in the past and then charging more for them.

On top of the fact that the cost for these items has gone way, way up, you purposefully have the RA packs in sets where you won't be able to buy just one RA pack, buy a prime pack and then end with 0.  They look to be purposefully set up so that when you buy one RA pack you're either a couple short for a prime pack or will have not enough left over, and either waste that money or have to buy another pack to even it out enough to get something else.

5 hours ago, Avava-AvA said:

Does the price for the Armor just reduced from 3 aya to 2?

Nice.

How is that "nice"?  That's still over $13 worth of Regal Aya.  The packs that contain armor right now are $20, contain an additional accessory with the armor and 200p.  

4 hours ago, Voltage said:

The double downing on not giving Platinum has me worried, because I feel like they know what they are doing.

I know what they're doing too.  Increasing the cost of these things and lying about it.  This isn't new stuff.  This is old stuff being put back into the game.  It shouldn't cost more than other times it's been brought back, if anything it should cost less.  It's not like they have to re-design all these things and spend money on the development for them when they come back.  

[Lokidus_Prime]

6 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

I hadn't known either until around midday. They really needed to make a separate post about it because it's just going to remain unseen over the weekend. Half of the issues are now addressed, all that's left is the plat.

Main issues that are left now (for me anyway) is that most of the bundles listed in your chart average around 10 Regal Aya in cost, which a PV Single Frame ($40) bundle will get you all that, but the $40 Raya pack only gives 7.  That, plus the Raya x15 wouldn't be able to get you a dual bundles' worth of stuff if those frames came with all 2-raya accessories, on top of still being $20 more expensive than the PV dual pack.  Unless I'm blind and missed something, we also still don't know if Glyphs will be included with the warframe bundles, or if we have to buy those separately, if we even get them at all (those are kinda back burner compared to the other glaring issues tho).

If they add back the plat (or make the Raya packs cheaper to compensate for lack of plat) and reduce price of the Raya x15 pack to $60 it would fix a majority of the issues I think.  Some Raya pack adjustments would also be nice:

• 1st Raya pack would be the most reasonable if it stayed at 3, but it'd be nice if it gets increased it to 4
  • 4 would be enough for 2 big accessories, whereas 3 is 1big + 1small.  
• 2nd pack to 9~10
  • 6-raya single frame pack + two accessories: 1big + 1small for 9, or 2big for 10
  • this bundle has the most issues for me, since its only enough for a single warframe bundle + 1small accessory, when a $40 PV pack would give you 2 accessories
• 3rd pack to 16~18
  • 10-raya dual frame pack + four accessories:  2big + 2small for 16, 4big for 18. 

Course, that's purely based on trying to get Raya packs to give you roughly what the PV packs do.

Also, No DE, saying that "Individual Primed Accessories give players more choice - a new and far more flexible approach to Prime Accessories access." is still not a valid reason for replacing plat with endo. 

Edit: I'm blind and didn't see that accessories were included with the single & dual packs lol.

[Raikuha]

hace 41 minutos, Lokidus_Prime dijo:

Main issues that are left now (for me anyway) is that most of the bundles listed in your chart average around 10 Regal Aya in cost, which a PV Single Frame ($40) bundle will get you all that, but the $40 Raya pack only gives 7.  That, plus the Raya x15 wouldn't be able to get you a dual bundles' worth of stuff if those frames came with all 2-raya accessories, on top of still being $20 more expensive than the PV dual pack.  Unless I'm blind and missed something, we also still don't know if Glyphs will be included with the warframe bundles, or if we have to buy those separately, if we even get them at all (those are kinda back burner compared to the other glaring issues tho).

If they add back the plat (or make the Raya packs cheaper to compensate for lack of plat) and reduce price of the Raya x15 pack to $60 it would fix a majority of the issues I think.  Some Raya pack adjustments would also be nice:

• 1st Raya pack would be the most reasonable if it stayed at 3, but it'd be nice if it gets increased it to 4
  • 4 would be enough for 2 big accessories, whereas 3 is 1big + 1small.  
• 2nd pack to 9~10
  • 6-raya single frame pack + two accessories: 1big + 1small for 9, or 2big for 10
  • this bundle has the most issues for me, since its only enough for a single warframe bundle + 1small accessory, when a $40 PV pack would give you 2 accessories
• 3rd pack to 16~18
  • 10-raya dual frame pack + four accessories:  2big + 2small for 16, 4big for 18. 

Course, that's purely based on trying to get Raya packs to give you roughly what the PV packs do.

Also, No DE, saying that "Individual Primed Accessories give players more choice - a new and far more flexible approach to Prime Accessories access." is still not a valid reason for replacing plat with endo. 

Looking at Resurgence website, $40 Raya pack actually gives you 8 Raya, and the 10 Raya dual bundle gets you everything, glyphs included. You still end up paying 60 USD for it if you get both tiers (7 + 3 Raya). But the 18 Raya (it's 15 + 3 extra) 15 raya pack might still be a better deal for 80 USD because 160 gets you three weeks of dual bundles.

The problem imo is still the missing plat. Assuming you only want the prime accessories because Warframe and weapons can be farmed or because you already have them, you're still going to spend at least 40 USD for 7 Raya, with some leftovers for next rotation, but won't have 400 plat as you would if you got both PA packs in PV, which could buy you a lot other stuff.

Another issue is that for 60 you get the dual bundle with all the stuff (10 Raya gives you both frames, all weapons, all accessories and their glyphs + 50k endo), but 15 for 80 should be better than 10 for 60, since spending 40 USD more next rotation gets you a second dual bundle. I feel there's no way to end up feeling "satisfied" here, because you either overpay just for the accessories, or spend 200 USD a month to get it all, except the plat. Seems there's no benefit to the tier 3 at all because 60 a week works just the same.

Edited to make sense because I misunderstood the Regal Aya tiers. I didn't realize the 7 and 15 already included the bonus you get.

 

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

4 minutes ago, Lokidus_Prime said:

Main issues that are left now (for me anyway) is that most of the bundles listed in your chart average around 10 Regal Aya in cost, which a PV Single Frame ($40) bundle will get you all that, but the $40 Raya pack only gives 7.  That, plus the Raya x15 wouldn't be able to get you a dual bundles' worth of stuff if those frames came with all 2-raya accessories, on top of still being $20 more expensive than the PV dual pack.  Unless I'm blind and missed something, we also still don't know if Glyphs will be included with the warframe bundles, or if we have to buy those separately, if we even get them at all (those are kinda back burner compared to the other glaring issues tho).

If they add back the plat (or make the Raya packs cheaper to compensate for lack of plat) and reduce price of the Raya x15 pack to $60 it would fix a majority of the issues I think.  Some Raya pack adjustments would also be nice:

• 1st Raya pack would be the most reasonable if it stayed at 3, but it'd be nice if it gets increased it to 4
  • 4 would be enough for 2 big accessories, whereas 3 is 1big + 1small.  
• 2nd pack to 9~10
  • 6-raya single frame pack + two accessories: 1big + 1small for 9, or 2big for 10
  • this bundle has the most issues for me, since its only enough for a single warframe bundle + 1small accessory, when a $40 PV pack would give you 2 accessories
• 3rd pack to 16~18
  • 10-raya dual frame pack + four accessories:  2big + 2small for 16, 4big for 18. 

Course, that's purely based on trying to get Raya packs to give you roughly what the PV packs do.

Also, No DE, saying that "Individual Primed Accessories give players more choice - a new and far more flexible approach to Prime Accessories access." is still not a valid reason for replacing plat with endo. 

I've bought the unvaulted primes themselves once, because I knew I wouldn't be able to play much while they were out and I wanted them, and I was happy with the game at the time.  I've bought the Prime Accessories packs more than once because they have plat and I like cosmetics, and I'm caught up with all the primes.  If they remove the ability to just buy the prime accessories packs that come with plat for actual money, and switch over to this greedy new system entirely, they will never see another dime from me.  

$20 for $10 worth of plat and some cosmetics I like every now and then is totally fine with me.  A single armor set for $20 or even $13 is an absolute no-go.  In-game shop prices on cosmetics are only tolerable for things like deluxe bundles because plat is tradeable. 

Getting greedy right before The New War hits is a super shady business move, trying to prey on people's desire to stick around and see a new quest, hoping they'll ignore how crappy this is because they want to see the new content.  It's a gamble though, because if the quest falls flat, or has a really rough launch (releasing right before they go on vacation for the holidays yet again.  Hilarious.) then it's only going to amp up and highlight the issues and growing distrust things like this generate.