Why I'm not playing WF (at least currently)

[Hypernaut1]

Its funny how this topic devolved into an argument about PvP - by people that play the game.

[Felsagger]

1 minute ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Its funny how this topic devolved into an argument about PvP - by people that play the game.

I see what you did there. :3

Yes, PvP can do good to warframe in many positive ways. Isn't that a good thing? 

[Zimzala]

1 minute ago, Felsagger said:

If you want to troll at least try a good bait, son. 

Two reasons why people don't play PvP. 

1. The disparity of experience between players

2. The lack of a lobby or dedicated servers. 

PvP with the current definition is NOT working for DE because these two reasons and the disadvantage of people with the mods versus new players in the game. 

So, as I said, you really just want to run the show, because you think you can do better, so go get hired.

You and others continuously try to insult the entire PvE player base in your effort to get more PvP, you are shown constantly that the player base has no appetite for PvP at scale even after multiple iterations from DE, and at every turn refuse to accept the simple reality that PvP + the player base != ROI for DE.

Sounds a lot like obsession to me, frankly.

Sure, you and a 'crack team' of PvP players think they can re-arrange DE and WF into a 'great' PvP experience, when the company running the game, wanting to make ROI, could not do it, with multiple tries, so if you really think so much of your own air, go make it happen, that's how the world works.

If you think you can change the reality of PvP not being popular here with a hard core power fantasy PvE player base, then go do it. I have seen an endless stream of gamers make these claims in PvE game for a couple decades now, still waiting for even ONE to deliver.

So go do it. Prove us all wrong. I dare you.

[Felsagger]

Just now, Zimzala said:

So, as I said, you really just want to run the show, because you think you can do better, so go get hired.

If you want to troll because you are bored at your desk job then that's another can of worm. Go get a better job. 

 

The problem here is that ALL the PvP games runs with dedicated servers. How Overwatch Works? How Halo Infinite Works? How many of the most successful PvP games works? Yes dedicated servers. DE did this with Unreal Tournament. DE has DONE this in their 25 years experience. Why all of the sudden we have RNG matches on map and people? 

Should I run the show? No, they did run the show with Unreal Tournament and worked well. Why they simply ditched out that possibility? You see, there are reasons why PvP games works and why PvP games doesn't work. 

Just now, Zimzala said:

You and others continuously try to insult the entire PvE player base in your effort to get more PvP, you are shown constantly that the player base has no appetite for PvP at scale even after multiple iterations from DE, and at every turn refuse to accept the simple reality that PvP + the player base != ROI for DE.

How am I trying to insult the PvE community? The PvE community will have their game and PvP community will have their game without one affecting the other. How is that unfair? However you do not critique the PvE individuals who wants to shut down the PvP people who are interested in the game. 

The proposal is that people can get everything in PvE and use it in PvP. Is that exclusive? Is that an insult to PvE players? So giving more options to play the game is wrong now?

If you are going to be hypocrite try a better argument than that. You are flat out trolling. 

Just now, Zimzala said:

Sounds a lot like obsession to me, frankly.

So now my obsession is having fun with a game? 

Silly me. 

Just now, Zimzala said:

Sure, you and a 'crack team' of PvP players think they can re-arrange DE and WF into a 'great' PvP experience, when the company running the game, wanting to make ROI, could not do it, with multiple tries, so if you really think so much of your own air, go make it happen, that's how the world works.. 

They tried dedicated servers? No. 

They tried giving access to all the hardware in PvE so players come prepared for PvP matches? No

They tried RNG on everything without success. 

 

The mindset that is behind the PvE section of the game CAN'T BE THE SAME mindset behind the design of the PvP part of the game. 

Just now, Zimzala said:

If you think you can change the reality of PvP not being popular here with a hard core power fantasy PvE player base, then go do it. I have seen an endless stream of gamers make these claims in PvE game for a couple decades now, still waiting for even ONE to deliver.

It's not popular because it NEEDS WORK. That's all what we are trying to say. New War is bringing variables with the potential to make positive changes for PvP. DE themselves are proposing three new styles of game play. 

Right now they have a library of possibilities to try with better controlled variables than the warframes. 

Just now, Zimzala said:

So go do it. Prove us all wrong. I dare you.

Maybe you are not good at PvP and you can't change that reality for yourself. Who knows...^^

I'm not going to prove anything to you when your intention is flat out halt a good conversation about the possibilities of PvP with your trolling. 

[Zimzala]

17 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

I'm not going to prove anything to you when your intention is flat out halt a good conversation about the possibilities of PvP with your trolling. 

Uh, I am not the one calling others dog excrement and telling others to 'git gud' like some 12 y/o BR player.

The entire time I have seen you post, you claim to know better, from gameplay to graphics, to, well, everything, you continuously claim DE does it wrong and you know better, I have watched you post for years.

I have watched a long line of similar posters in other games for decades do the same thing, never, ever, actually producing anything other than Rage Against The Game Company.

You and others claim if DE 'would just', when reality is never that simple and if you think it is, then you have a lot to learn about the world.

DE has given the mode work and more work, the player base they have has made it clear they are not interested, but you still seem to think your ideas are gold and would change the game, so write that stuff up in a real proposal and send it to DE, I for one would love a good WF centric CTF game, no one makes CTF like Tribes did and WF movement could be fun there. But I realize in teh WF community that it is not popular with the population, so no ROI.

No matter how much PvP oriented gamers try, they never seem to understand that not everyone enjoys PvP and that no matter what they do, offering a PvP game mode is not going to change the personalities of PvE players to love PvP.

You are convinced if DE 'did PvP right' that the mode/game would 'take off' and be profitable.

So, if you really want that to happen, go make it happen.

If you just want to talk in your endless circles about what DE does wrong, enjoy yourself.

But I will comment as I like in those discussions until a moderator tells me not to, thanks.

Just because you don't like my POV does not make me a troll.

I don't see you as a troll here, just someone with whom I have very little common ground that like to see if they can find the right word like 'son' in some weird attempt to display dominance. It's hilarious, been watching Forum blowhards try and pull that crap for years as well.

[SneakyErvin]

19 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

But, if by "worth investing in" you actually meant replayability/retention/engagement then you yourself bring up the perfect counterpoint:

Quests are played once and rarely ever again. The new quest next week won't be replayable on launch, so you couldn't replay it even if you wanted to. They might have high engagement but they have just about zero replayability or affect on retention. What about Shawzins? K-Drives? Frame Fighter? DE wastes plenty of time and effort on less. That's no excuse either.

Yet have you tried pointing out or considering the solutions to those flaws? It doesn't seem like it. You seem more focused on finding gotchas so you can keep saying "no".

Because we seem to be talking about different things. You seem to still be talking about how "good" the loot is for you as a player inside the game? I'm talking about how "good" the loot is as an activity or part of my experience. I mean "good loot" as in "loot that's interesting and enjoyable to pick up and look through". A "good looter" being a looter where the loot is fun and engaging and interesting. Warframe doesn't have that. What's the last mod you picked up in your last play session? How many Credits did you get in your last mission? I certainly couldn't answer those questions. But in Divinity I looted a unique scythe and found a cool helmet and crafted some new skill books for one of my characters and started a new stack of gold. It's a good looter in my books because it's ultimately a game centered about looting and managing item,s and the act of looting itself is fun and present and a focal point.

And if you had bothered to read the rest regarding quests you'd see me also say that they allow devs to build on the lore, if the game has lore to build on, which in the case of WF, it does. So it is worth it since it allows DE to tell the story they want. And how you cant see why Shawzins were added is beyond me, revenue! And using Frame Fighter as an example is kinda uhm silly since it was done in the spare time by someone at the studio. And I dont know about you, but what someone does in their spare time isnt my concern since that is their time, their hobby. Like I said before, K-Drives I dont get either, so why you use them as an example is beyond me.

And I did point out a solution to the "raid" and PvP flaws and why WF should stay as a singleplayer game with co-op as optional. But I'll mention the two major flaws again. One, WF has no trinity system, raids will be arbitrary due to that since there is nothing a raid will provide that a 1-4 player experience wont. As shown in the old raids. Two, WF doesnt have any dedicated servers no a hybrid option, which makes things like PvP and raids on a "mandatory" larger scale problematic. I mean, the solutions spell themselves out in the issues, it shouldnt really have to be mentioned. And since I dont think DE will change the game fundamentally like GW2 or provide dedicated or hybrid servers neither of the two will be viable.

WF like every other game has interesting loot, early on. No game has everlasting interesting loot. In a new D3 or PoE season you get fed up with seeing the loot after about a week. I also still dont see how you think Divinity is a looter, it has zero farm potential. It's a simple regular rpg, based pretty much on how P&P rpgs work.

[GwinKyblood]

20 hours ago, (XBOX)Bloxanity2816 said:

 

 

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[Hypernaut1]

58 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

I see what you did there. :3

Yes, PvP can do good to warframe in many positive ways. Isn't that a good thing? 

You're just looking for a fight huh? No thank you. I was just making an observation. 

[PublikDomain]

8 hours ago, Corvid said:

And as much as you hate to admit it, so was PvP.

Again, the Conclave is the third (technically fourth, but I'm merging Duels and the Colosseum since they weren't mechanically distinct) iteration of PvP in this game, each of which has received more development resources than the last. Every single time, it has failed to catch on with the community.

How many times must that happen before you accept the obvious pattern, I wonder?

And the few times they've tried, what they've produced has been incomplete or flawed every time. Neither you nor I are the ones deciding to not add basic features to Conclave. Neither you nor I are the ones deciding to leave broken weapons and mechanics alone for months. This is not the community's fault.

What obvious pattern am I supposed to accept? That DE doesn't take the time to get it right and constantly abandons content before its finished? Because I certainly recognize that pattern, though I don't accept it.

When you actually look at where Archwing has ended up, it's just as incomplete and flawed as Conclave. They're only actually used in the utility role they've been relegated to. They're glorified mobility scooters you can cheese certain objectives with using Amesha, not a core integrated part of the game's combat loop. Same with Operators, which are only used for reviving, mobility, or AFKing in Void Mode.

2 hours ago, Felsagger said:

PvP needs the right direction with dedicated servers. The conception of random engagement and disparity of player's skill was the downside on DE's part. 

We've had dedicated servers since 2016. Like I said, all the work's already been done.

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, Zimzala said:

Uh, I am not the one calling others dog excrement and telling others to 'git gud' like some 12 y/o BR player.

That is a sarcasm. Even the phrase get good is a sarcastic approach but you missed it. If you get offended easily by those two things maybe YOU should never step in a PvP server. 

Save yourself from such bad lands. They can be tough if you have a thin skin for competition. Or pick a community or friends where they play PvP in a non competitive way teaching you how to work with the PvP mindset. 

Training. 

You do realize that YOU DO GET GOOD at anything when you train and reasons your limitations and abilities right? Isn't this applicable to everything we do in life? 

1 hour ago, Zimzala said:

The entire time I have seen you post, you claim to know better, from gameplay to graphics, to, well, everything, you continuously claim DE does it wrong and you know better, I have watched you post for years.

Another miss conception. 

If DE does it wrong, why I'm here playing for 9 years this game? You think that I find this game mediocre? Looks like you never understand that I look at things 50/50. That mindset balance and counter balance the positives and the negatives. Life is always about an EQUILIBRIUM where there is room for improvements and there is room for success. 

I base my thinking on cases that happened before. DE is the precedent of this case. In their briefcase they have the BEST PvP game ever made that became an icon of competition called Unreal Tournament. DE HAS 25 years of experience doing games and they SURELY know what works and what doesn't. 

The problem is that pampered players trolls and wine for an easy accommodation in PvP when PvP is an EXERCISE OF COMPETITION. PvP is not meant to be easy. PvP is not meant to be a cake walk. PvP is not meant to forgive mistakes. PvP is a TEST. 

I use precedents like Halo Infinite, Overwatch, Titan Fall 2, Titan Fall, Halo 3, Halo 2, Halo 1. This is a library of PvP games that worked throughout the span of more than 20 years. I based my experience using Half Life 2, Counter Strike and many other formats like Doom Eternal PvP. There are examples like Unreal Tournament 2004. There are many other examples that gives the player the LIBRARY and criteria for judgment. 

1 hour ago, Zimzala said:

I have watched a long line of similar posters in other games for decades do the same thing, never, ever, actually producing anything other than Rage Against The Game Company.

That list of players always argue the following points:

The need of Dedicated servers.

The need of a Lobby where players defines the parameter of their games. 

The need of balance and controlled variables. 

The need of an easy acquisition of items so players starts at a fair margin. 

The parity of player dexterity and skill throughout match making. 

 

YOU DON'T know this because YOU ARE NOT interested in PvP and what those people say. Know where YOU stand. 

1 hour ago, Zimzala said:

You and others claim if DE 'would just', when reality is never that simple and if you think it is, then you have a lot to learn about the world.

In this world nothing takes 15 minutes and nothing comes easily. 

For success there should be failure. 

Now DE has the Tenno, Techin, The Grineer and the Corpus to try PvP. There are better suited variables that can encompass a better structure to PvP. The Grineer is a ground that DE IS A MASTER at it. Yes, Unreal Tournament. 

I can't ask coconuts from an apple tree. But I can ask for better apples that comes from an apple tree. 

1 hour ago, Zimzala said:

DE has given the mode work and more work, the player base they have has made it clear they are not interested,

Because DE had only one thing in their desk. The Warframe. 

By the years DE added to their desk the Tenno. But we never saw a PvP game with the Tenno. 

By the years DE added and will happen in New War Techin, Grineer, Tenno weapons, Grineer, Corpus to their desk. So they have variables that they know how to operate. 

1 hour ago, Zimzala said:

but you still seem to think your ideas are gold and would change the game, so write that stuff up in a real proposal and send it to DE, I for one would love a good WF centric CTF game, no one makes CTF like Tribes did and WF movement could be fun there. But I realize in teh WF community that it is not popular with the population, so no ROI.

Wrong again. 

Ideas that comes from the video game industry itself.

Example: Titan Fall 2.

Example: Overwatch.

Example: Counter Strike. 

Example: Half Life 2. 

Example: Halo Infinite. 

Example: Tribes 2. Your own example. 

1 hour ago, Zimzala said:

No matter how much PvP oriented gamers try, they never seem to understand that not everyone enjoys PvP and that no matter what they do, offering a PvP game mode is not going to change the personalities of PvE players to love PvP.

In other words we have NO right to ask for PvP games in the Warframe community because we are the 'minority' when all these games are ONLINE including Warframe? Really? We are NOT imposing PvP game play to PvE players. First off. 

No seriously what type of reasoning is that? I'm curious now. 

We want our court and that court will not affect your court because we want fun testing our abilities. What you hate is that PvP players develop dexterities that makes PvE players obsolete. Your case is a typical case of envy. 

You want skill, yeah why not. Then work for them as we work our skills every day in a competition match. You want to be good then train. Games are for fun but they are also an exercise and a test of abilities. We have the right to enjoy games THIS WAY. 

1 hour ago, Zimzala said:

You are convinced if DE 'did PvP right' that the mode/game would 'take off' and be profitable.

I am CONVINCED that it can help the game throughout the draught times and retain players like veterans for the benefit of the game. 

1 hour ago, Zimzala said:

So, if you really want that to happen, go make it happen.

Yes, here conversing and assembling better ideas WITH THE COMMUNITY FOR THE COMMUNITY in a fair consensus that doesn't affect the commodity of particulars. 

1 hour ago, Zimzala said:

If you just want to talk in your endless circles about what DE does wrong, enjoy yourself.

The forums are proposed for EXACTLY that. Do you know that everything we write here are suggestions and our mindset? DE decides. We propose. Those are our options. 

However forums are surveys to test IDEAS. We point out deviations and mishaps when they happen. Why? We care for the health of the game that is their BUSINESS. 

1 hour ago, Zimzala said:

But I will comment as I like in those discussions until a moderator tells me not to, thanks.

People can do whatever they like. Yes, you can comment and write anything you want that doesn't affect the criteria and the norms. 

But people will not tolerate douchebag attitudes and trolls. Don't ask people to admit that type of behavior as an acceptable one. That is NOT going to happen. 

1 hour ago, Zimzala said:

Just because you don't like my POV does not make me a troll.

You are projecting yourself. No doubt about that. You admitted it yourself in your previews sentence. 

1 hour ago, Zimzala said:

I don't see you as a troll here, just someone with whom I have very little common ground that like to see if they can find the right word like 'son' in some weird attempt to display dominance. It's hilarious, been watching Forum blowhards try and pull that crap for years as well.

If you want a high level discussion then show a behavior that demonstrates that. 

Start an argument with logical statements that doesn't dissect people. 

Start an argument with premises that pertain the game improvement. 

Start an augment with the intention to add better performance of the game. 

Start an argument with examples and counter examples. 

Start an argument with game theory, your experience or instances that happens in this game or any other game. 

 

Sorry but I'm not your average joe. Try harder. 

 

[Felsagger]

44 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

You're just looking for a fight huh? No thank you. I was just making an observation. 

I'm not looking for a fight. I'm looking for your good reasons and what you think that PvP may or may not work. 

Go ahead write down your piece of mind. 

[PublikDomain]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

And if you had bothered to read the rest regarding quests you'd see me also say that they allow devs to build on the lore, if the game has lore to build on, which in the case of WF, it does. So it is worth it since it allows DE to tell the story they want. And how you cant see why Shawzins were added is beyond me, revenue! And using Frame Fighter as an example is kinda uhm silly since it was done in the spare time by someone at the studio. And I dont know about you, but what someone does in their spare time isnt my concern since that is their time, their hobby. Like I said before, K-Drives I dont get either, so why you use them as an example is beyond me.

Why can't PvP affect the lore or the game world? So the Tenno clans never fought for control over the Solar Rails and the Armistice was never called? Why can't that be a part of the story? The Tenno and their interactions with one another beyond the control of the Lotus is one of the weakest, least explored parts of the story and lore.

Why can't PvP can't bring in revenue? Are PvP games unable to make money? Does CS:GO have no revenue? This all comes down to retention. Players aren't gonna be spending money on this game or any other if they aren't playing it. Is a player constantly playing the game in a mode you don't care for really so much less valuable than a player only playing the game on the four weekends out of the year when a big update launches?

If DE can spend some spare time on Frame Fighter, why can't they spend some spare time on PvP? If they can create gameplay for all the hover-board enthusiasts in this community why not for others?

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

And I did point out a solution to the "raid" and PvP flaws and why WF should stay as a singleplayer game with co-op as optional. But I'll mention the two major flaws again. One, WF has no trinity system, raids will be arbitrary due to that since there is nothing a raid will provide that a 1-4 player experience wont. As shown in the old raids. Two, WF doesnt have any dedicated servers no a hybrid option, which makes things like PvP and raids on a "mandatory" larger scale problematic. I mean, the solutions spell themselves out in the issues, it shouldnt really have to be mentioned. And since I dont think DE will change the game fundamentally like GW2 or provide dedicated or hybrid servers neither of the two will be viable.

So your "solution" is "do nothing"? That doesn't sound much like a solution... It sounds like excuses.

And Warframe did have something like a trinity system, at least until the balance got away from us and we all got turned into our own one-man-trinity. You used to, you know, work together with your teammates... Organize which player uses what frame for LoR or JV or a T4D. You know, cooperate. Don't remember that? Not that any of this really matters, since DE's already said they'd like to bring Raids back and since we've had dedicated servers in Conclave for the last 5 years.

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

WF like every other game has interesting loot, early on. No game has everlasting interesting loot. In a new D3 or PoE season you get fed up with seeing the loot after about a week. I also still dont see how you think Divinity is a looter, it has zero farm potential. It's a simple regular rpg, based pretty much on how P&P rpgs work.

Does it? I guess Rubedo and Nano Spores aren't my idea of interesting loot.

And again I'd say that, yes, Divinity is a looter, because loot and looting is a major focus of the game. You spend the whole game looting things, managing loot, looking for ways to find more loot, using the loot to do things, swapping our your old looted equipment for new looted equipment, combining loot to make other loot... What practical difference is there between the looting experience between Divinity and Diablo or PoE? Are these really such different games?

Spoiler

[Zimzala]

27 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

And the few times they've tried, what they've produced has been incomplete or flawed every time. Neither you nor I are the ones deciding to not add basic features to Conclave. Neither you nor I are the ones deciding to leave broken weapons and mechanics alone for months. This is not the community's fault.

What obvious pattern am I supposed to accept? That DE doesn't take the time to get it right and constantly abandons content before its finished? Because I certainly recognize that pattern, though I don't accept it.

We've had dedicated servers since 2016. Like I said, all the work's already been done.

So, you see reality but you don't accept it?

Sounds a little fuzzy on the logic there.

Like others, you seem to think "if they just..."

If you really think a few bugs are what hold back PvP from taking off in WF, I have a bridge to sell you in the Mohave.

The population of the game has shown over and over even after multiple iterations it has no desire at scale to PvP.

No amount of work DE could ever do will change that.

How is it so hard for PvP players to understand it's just not a popular thing with this player base?

I have watched this same merry go round over and over again with PvE based populations that contain a few hard core PvP players that think they can change the community.

This is not a technical issue.

WF is built on a PvE population. While many PvE players do enjoy a bit of PvP now and then, for the most part at scale it's two different populations. Lot's of people like to just 'play' games, without the intent or driving need to 'win', simply to 'play'. Even here on teh forums, the PvP is rampant with those that feel the need to 'win' by finding some gotcha, some turn of phrase, that they can turn against the people that don't like their ideas, etc., to 'win'.

Meanwhile, some are willing to discuss the reality of the situation and not be so focused on placing blame on the Game Company for something that is human nature.

The hardest thing I have seen PvE and PvP players have to come to terms with is that the 'other' side simply does not view the world in the same way - some are driven to 'win', others just want to 'play'.

[Felsagger]

43 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

And the few times they've tried, what they've produced has been incomplete or flawed every time. Neither you nor I are the ones deciding to not add basic features to Conclave. Neither you nor I are the ones deciding to leave broken weapons and mechanics alone for months. This is not the community's fault.

What obvious pattern am I supposed to accept? That DE doesn't take the time to get it right and constantly abandons content before its finished? Because I certainly recognize that pattern, though I don't accept it.

We've had dedicated servers since 2016. Like I said, all the work's already been done.

Yes correct. It's the implementation. DE Already has all this infrastructure and KNOW HOW. It's not the community fault that PvP is not doing so well. Something must be fixed to work.

The thing that halts DE too is the negativity against PvP that some members has against it. That has to end, Publik. 

I keep playing this game because IS NOT boring. I still enjoy it like I'm enjoying Halo Infinite campaign. It's an outstanding campaign. I'm sure people will find some fun and things to do in New War. 

[Zimzala]

8 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Sorry but I'm not your average joe. Try harder. 

So again, you just bold a bunch of stuff that says "do things my way, talk to me my way, make your points the way I desire", because I won't dance to your tune, I am a 'troll'.

Pretty average Joe to my mind for forum interaction.

You want what you want. You are convinced, by your own words, that you know better.

Great.

Create a design and submit that to DE or some VC fund, get the funding, make the changes, make a new game with WF IP, w/e.

Go for it.

But dance to your tune? Not happening, I am comfortable with my own, no matter how you continually try and denigrate it, not my first rodeo.

There is no ROI in talking to you other than general amusement and passing the time, as you think you already know better than anyone about anything, how would that be a discussion? It would just be you telling me I am wrong, again, because I have a differing opinion.

You want to 'win' these discussion when there is no prize, nothing to 'win'.

[PublikDomain]

12 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

If you really think a few bugs are what hold back PvP from taking off in WF, I have a bridge to sell you in the Mohave.

Bugs? Uh, I've been talking about balance and the lack of features?

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Its funny how this topic devolved into an argument about PvP - by people that play the game.

Is it? OP's first two complaints are about repetition and lack of challenge. PvP is a good way to build variety (no human opponent is the same) and offer a challenge. It's the people losing their minds over that statement that are devolving this topic.

[Felsagger]

7 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

So, you see reality but you don't accept it?

So you see. I'm not the only one who thinks that PvP may work. 

Are you going to try and shut him down too? Really? 

7 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

 The population of the game has shown over and over even after multiple iterations it has no desire at scale to PvP.

But there are four people here that are interested in PvP. 

You do realize that the desire of people is to improve PvP? Are you going to shut that down too? 

There are new variables and new possibilities in new War. Can't you see those variables? 

7 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

No amount of work DE could ever do will change that.

But our interest can in a consensus where PvP gets a good real chance. 

7 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

How is it so hard for PvP players to understand it's just not a popular thing with this player base?

There are new variables to try. Why tell DE to quit when they can do better for us and for the game?

7 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

I have watched this same merry go round over and over again with PvE based populations that contain a few hard core PvP players that think they can change the community.

We have now NEW WAR. The environment is changing and so the conditions. They are more favorable for us PvP players. That's why there is a resurgence. 

7 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

WF is built on a PvE population. While many PvE players do enjoy a bit of PvP now and then, for the most part at scale it's two different populations. Lot's of people like to just 'play' games, without the intent or driving need to 'win', simply to 'play'. Even here on teh forums, the PvP is rampant with those that feel the need to 'win' by finding some gotcha, some turn of phrase, that they can turn against the people that don't like their ideas, etc., to 'win'.

With all honesty if you are not interested in this conversation why comment? To troll? If PvP is not for you then skip the conversation. No one is forcing you to play it. No one is forcing you to like it either. Let people who is interested talk about it. 

 

Simple. 

7 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

Meanwhile, some are willing to discuss the reality of the situation and not be so focused on placing blame on the Game Company for something that is human nature.

We are interested in a better game for everybody. 

Silly US. 

7 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

The hardest thing I have seen PvE and PvP players have to come to terms with is that the 'other' side simply does not view the world in the same way - some are driven to 'win', others just want to 'play'.

You forgot that PvP players wants to have fun. 

You forgot that PvP players wants better skills. 

You forgot that PvP players are part of this community. 

You forgot that PvP players sees this game with positive eyes because it has potential. 

 

Why you don't talk about that? 

[Felsagger]

5 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

 

Is it? OP's first two complaints are about repetition and lack of challenge. PvP is a good way to build variety (no human opponent is the same) and offer a challenge. It's the people losing their minds over that statement that are devolving this topic.

Thank you Public Domain. 

ZImzala forgot to READ THE THREAD FIRST. He came with the obvious intention to start an argument. See? This is what happens when people DO NOT READ. 

[Felsagger]

13 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

So again, you just bold a bunch of stuff that says "do things my way, talk to me my way, make your points the way I desire", because I won't dance to your tune, I am a 'troll'.

Pretty average Joe to my mind for forum interaction.

Do you provide arguments pertaining the viability of the PvP in a positive note? No. 

You simply want to shut down the conversation because YOU think that PvP is not popular. 

So say again? 

13 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

You want what you want. You are convinced, by your own words, that you know better.

Great.

Create a design and submit that to DE or some VC fund, get the funding, make the changes, make a new game with WF IP, w/e.

Go for it.

But Tencent will extend this game for portable phones. 

Money IS NOT an excuse now. 

13 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

But dance to your tune? Not happening, I am comfortable with my own, no matter how you continually try and denigrate it, not my first rodeo.

There is no ROI in talking to you other than general amusement and passing the time, as you think you already know better than anyone about anything, how would that be a discussion? It would just be you telling me I am wrong, again, because I have a differing opinion.

You want to 'win' these discussion when there is no prize, nothing to 'win'.

We want it to happen that's why we discuss the possibility of PvP here. 

If you are not interested then you are free to pick the door and leave. Simple. No one retains you against your will. You where the one who came here with the intention to start an argument. Obviously you got outgunned, outsmarted and outnumbered. 

 

Sorry. It's unfortunate. 

[PublikDomain]

6 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Thank you Public Domain. 

ZImzala forgot to READ THE THREAD FIRST. He came with the obvious intention to start an argument. See? This is what happens when people DO NOT READ. 

Mm, maybe take it down a few notches though.

[Zimzala]

15 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Bugs? Uh, I've been talking about balance and the lack of features?

 

1 hour ago, PublikDomain said:

And the few times they've tried, what they've produced has been incomplete or flawed every time. Neither you nor I are the ones deciding to not add basic features to Conclave. Neither you nor I are the ones deciding to leave broken weapons and mechanics alone for months. This is not the community's fault.

Bold mine.

Sure, you reference features as well bugs.

From my POV, the players that want to play a game (mode), play it.

This a community/human outlook issue, not a technical one.

So sure, one can say that any company can make a perfect PvP game and that PvP players will flock to it.

Here, the conversation is still around adding a PvP mode and thinking that more PvE players, possibly long term, will roll over into PvP players.

I have seen players try to make this claim about games for years and never seen it happen.

It's not a matter of trying to shutdown the discussion, finding the perfect technology, etc., IMO, it is a matter of facing the reality that the people that play PvE games are really just not interested, at scale, in playing PvP.

[Felsagger]

1 minute ago, PublikDomain said:

Mm, maybe take it down a few notches though.

Sometimes you have to teach them the meaning of the word 'no'. :P

True. I'll go easy on him. Besides, it's a discussion about a game. :3

[Zimzala]

5 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

If you are not interested then you are free to pick the door and leave. Simple. No one retains you against your will. You where the one who came here with the intention to start an argument. Obviously you got outgunned, outsmarted and outnumbered. 

Sorry. It's unfortunate. 

See?

Once again, any discussion with you boils down to you thinking you have to 'win' and 'teabag' your 'opponent'.

Why would anyone really want to interact with a person like that?

I guess, again, trying to converse with you has proven again I should not click on those posters I have on ignore.

Unfortunate.

[Felsagger]

4 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

 

Sure, you reference features as well bugs.

From my POV, the players that want to play a game (mode), play it.

This a community/human outlook issue, not a technical one.

So sure, one can say that any company can make a perfect PvP game and that PvP players will flock to it.

Here, the conversation is still around adding a PvP mode and thinking that more PvE players, possibly long term, will roll over into PvP players.

I have seen players try to make this claim about games for years and never seen it happen.

It's not a matter of trying to shutdown the discussion, finding the perfect technology, etc., IMO, it is a matter of facing the reality that the people that play PvE games are really just not interested, at scale, in playing PvP.

Ok. I'll go technical this time. 

For the weapons: You define a good set of weapons where people are familiarized. There are many that are way too much for a PvP game. Area of Effect is too abusive for Bramma. Many other weapons requires some adjustments for PvP. 

For the matches: Well, limit the maximum to 4 v 4 on some modes or 6 v 6. There are matches that considers a top limit due to technical issues with the internet. 

 

[Krankbert]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Zimzala:

 

Bold mine.

Sure, you reference features as well bugs.

From my POV, the players that want to play a game (mode), play it.

This a community/human outlook issue, not a technical one.

So sure, one can say that any company can make a perfect PvP game and that PvP players will flock to it.

Here, the conversation is still around adding a PvP mode and thinking that more PvE players, possibly long term, will roll over into PvP players.

I have seen players try to make this claim about games for years and never seen it happen.

It's not a matter of trying to shutdown the discussion, finding the perfect technology, etc., IMO, it is a matter of facing the reality that the people that play PvE games are really just not interested, at scale, in playing PvP.

PvE players and PvP players aren't distinct groups. The fact that you claim to have never seen a game where players play both PvP and PvE only proves that, like a lot of people on this forum, you don't know a lot of games beyond Warframe, if any.