Why I'm not playing WF (at least currently)

[AzureScion]

How long do I have to be playing for to be considered as an "old player"?  Since 2014? Genuine question. I've been playing since 2018 and I'm still enjoying it to death. Just know when to stop and when to take things slow. If you're speedrunning most missions by using the best equipments and builds available of course it's gonna get boring. Try something different. Ever tried building Gas and Electric on Proboscis Cernos or Kuva Ogris? They work brilliantly even in Steel Path Mot 1 hour in. Granted they won't work on level 9999 enemies but then again what's the point of getting to level 9999 anyway? 

Find your own fun and if you don't have fun anymore just take a break. Nobody is forcing you to play all day everyday.

[KitMeHarder]

5 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

most secondaries can't really proc slash, primaries without crit are NG.

In AoE? No. But stuff like the Epitaph, Tenet Spirex, Catchmoon, Sporothrix, Quellor, Tenet Flux Rifle, Spectra Vandal, Kuva Chakkhurr, Bubonico, Daikyu, etc... are all slash monsters that don't use/need Hunter Munitions (Sporothrix also doesn't need crit).

5 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

High end enemies have like 99.999% damage reduction. Even corrosive+heat+viral does very badly compared to slash.

When do enemies like that even matter? There's barely any reason to do Steel Path, let alone multi-hour long endurance runs. You're complaining about something the game isn't even promoting. "Heat does very badly"... what? Pick the highest level SP mission you want, something like the Phantasma will kill swaths of armored enemies in a sub-second.

You're complaining about a problem you've made for yourself. If you insist on playing near level cap missions, then fix the problem you've created yourself by playing frames like Xaku.

5 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

Still, using a necramech isn't fun

Well, maybe the game has just evolved without you. And there's nothing wrong with that. But in my opinion (and based on the numbers), Warframe is developing in a healthy direction. So this isn't a case of the game doing bad, you just don't enjoy it anymore.

(Plus, you joined after stuff like archwings and operators. And while DE kinda let AW stay a flop, they were already heading in a direction that branched out from the normal frame gameplay. You can only bullet jump and kill stuff with standard munitions for so long... if you aren't changing it up. Case-in-point, yourself.)

5 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

or effective (except for the arquebex

The point isn't for them to compete with warframes. It's for them to be fun and effective at the niches DE has given them, and that you happen to find. And that goes for it all, necramechs, operators, railjack, archwings, heavy weapons, etc... 

To prove my point, when I was speed running the Arcana bounties, I decided that a box-breaker Xaku build would give me the best times. But he sucked at damage, moving fast, most utility, etc... So when a bounty popped up that needed damage, I had my Voidrig with an Ayanga. When I needed to go to the next bounty point, I had void dash. When I couldn't use dispensary on a low duration build, I had the operator. When I needed to cross the map in Nova/Titania times, I had Amesha. Etc...

complement =/= compete

[VoidArkhangel]

I mean supporter packs' exclusives, twitch prime bs, regal aya... isnt helping much and with DE's lack of communication... geez, I had to look into the lower comment section of one of OWF's videos about the new war to know that Marcus had stated in reddit that Mesa and Volt's sentient skins are going to be plat purchasable. Why do we even have a Forum page if things like this are in Reddit or Twitter?

But what we know right? we "should take a break from the game", "shouldnt take it so seriously", "shouldnt have expectations so high"... 

[Leqesai]

52 minutes ago, AzureScion said:

How long do I have to be playing for to be considered as an "old player"?  Since 2014? Genuine question. I've been playing since 2018 and I'm still enjoying it to death. Just know when to stop and when to take things slow. If you're speedrunning most missions by using the best equipments and builds available of course it's gonna get boring. Try something different. Ever tried building Gas and Electric on Proboscis Cernos or Kuva Ogris? They work brilliantly even in Steel Path Mot 1 hour in. Granted they won't work on level 9999 enemies but then again what's the point of getting to level 9999 anyway? 

Find your own fun and if you don't have fun anymore just take a break. Nobody is forcing you to play all day everyday.

To be totally fair moat of the older players who are burnt out simply played too much imo.

When you play tons and tons of hours eventually the candle will burn out. Mmos are huge games but new content does not come at the same pace as hardcore players. Hardcore players complete content way too fast to keep up so they end up bored and frustrated.

My recommendation is to play multiple mmos at the same time so you dont get burnt out on them very fast.

Personally i am going to get back into guild wars 2 and give ff14 a try. Started with fallout 76 but it is pretty bad (level scaling). 

[TheArmchairThinker]

1 hour ago, Traumtulpe said:

You cannot kill high end enemies without bypassing armor. Such change would mean people are forced to use 100% armor stripping warframes.

Is it though? Or having the good old team composition of DPS + support + debuff/CC + healer is forgotten?

1 hour ago, Traumtulpe said:

Spy missions can have several different paths to the objective, but on higher levels it is always the same paths that are open, everything else is blocked. So once you know the optimal way, you'll always follow it without even looking at the level

You can always leave a feedback on feedback section. Whether it's being implemented is up to DE, just don't expect they will read and implement things immediately

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Man speak for yourself, I ain’t afraid of failure, I literally go seeking situations where failure is present unless I do something about it in the mission. The mission where the fighting happens. Do you know what it involves? Because I can give you a hint; it doesn’t involve shieldgate abusing, ridiculous amounts of overtuned damage for the mission, or expecting to win all the time (which means I don’t grind as fast). Surprise!

Games should provide the uncertainty and the CERTAINTY that if you make a mistake, you pay for such mistake or miss judgment. Chess is like that. Overwatch is like that. This game forgives too much. A Lucio requires deep skill and position. This is all about preservation, preference, position and priority. All games should adjudicate importance to all those four variables. The same with the idea of a plan, strategy and tactics. 

Frames should be nullified. That happened in Scarlet Spear. Once a field is activated by these sentients the frame is useless. The rest is the Necramech and the Tenno. Yes there are ways to counter nuke frames. However DE allows them. There could even be enemies that cancel our abilities but again DE is reluctant cutting off our power for a short period of time. 

1 hour ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

That’s my perspective in all of this; if you people aren’t so afraid of failure, then what are you doing avoiding it at all costs and then wondering where the challenge went? As far as I can tell, the justification for optimizing the potential fun out of the game is either for the grind, or because “Oh, but muh strength!”. The first is toxic, and the second isn’t personal capacity to fight, it’s literally taking bigger numbers via external modifications into a fight that doesn’t need it; there ain’t anything intrinsic about it, the things you’re slotting literally fell into your lap while playing thanks to the very nature of RNG.

The enemy needs to HURT deep and one shot frames. DE must do that with some special Grineer and Corpus weapons. For example, troops with Opticor can decimate payers with few shots. Or troops with modified Lankas may teach a Tenno where to stand. 

1 hour ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

What do you think is going to happen when you take the custom-built nuke to a sword fight? That may I add, was designed to be a nuke; I don’t know how many people crunched the numbers, read the wiki, and crafted the build all while thinking “Here we are; this will be just enough to win”. Unless I’m the only one who looked at all those options from the start of the game and thought to myself “How can I guarantee my victory in these fights?”, then what we’re witnessing is basic cause and effect. The journey of optimising can be fun, I know all parts of that, but then when it loses its fun, mix it up a little

Nuke build SUCKS. 

That mistake needs to leave the game once and for all. Period. 

1 hour ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

It seriously feels like some players need to be forced to be weak, where all the effort they’ve put into getting more powerful ends up with them dying at the same rate as someone else who hasn’t; there’s like, 6 slots on a weapon taken up by Mandatory Mods, and two left over for actual experimentation. What I’m hearing is that not only do some players want that to be the requirement all the time, for Lith fissures and anything else in the game, but that it should also take into account things like Rivens, because “Can’t live up to mah FULL POTENTIAL unless I’ve also got a God riven”

edit: Just realized you said you already had fear of failure; my bad, I mis-read. My point still stands though; some players act like they would welcome the chance to avoid failure, but it sure doesn’t seem that way

The idea is immersion. Warframe are the minority while the three factions are abusive in number and military artillery. Warframe are powerful for a while but once the heavy hitters arrives, the warframes must run if they want to stay alive. That should be the motto of the game, in my opinion. 

[Hypernaut1]

I'm beginning to realize that posters like this actually love Warframe far more than i do. 

 

[(NSW)Greybones]

26 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Games should provide the uncertainty and the CERTAINTY that if you make a mistake, you pay for such mistake or miss judgment. Chess is like that. Overwatch is like that. This game forgives too much. A Lucio requires deep skill and position. This is all about preservation, preference, position and priority. All games should adjudicate importance to all those four variables. The same with the idea of a plan, strategy and tactics. 

Frames should be nullified. That happened in Scarlet Spear. Once a field is activated by these sentients the frame is useless. The rest is the Necramech and the Tenno. Yes there are ways to counter nuke frames. However DE allows them. There could even be enemies that cancel our abilities but again DE is reluctant cutting off our power for a short period of time. 

The enemy needs to HURT deep and one shot frames. DE must do that with some special Grineer and Corpus weapons. For example, troops with Opticor can decimate payers with few shots. Or troops with modified Lankas may teach a Tenno where to stand. 

Nuke build SUCKS. 

That mistake needs to leave the game once and for all. Period. 

The idea is immersion. Warframe are the minority while the three factions are abusive in number and military artillery. Warframe are powerful for a while but once the heavy hitters arrives, the warframes must run if they want to stay alive. That should be the motto of the game, in my opinion. 

You want certainty in a fight that if you don’t perform well, you get punished? If you bring the Warframe that, I don’t know, turns perpetually invisible and the weapon that does the carrying of an entire arsenal, then the only certainty that you’ll find is victory; big surprise.

So what happens if you can’t turn invisible all the time because energy runs out, and the weapon can’t do the entire carry? We get locked into what we bring, but it sounds like the only thing you’re bringing is the handful of mandatory mods necessary to ensure victory as easily as possible, instead if exploring other combinations (people keep complaining about lack of build diversity; with 8 slots on a weapon and most of them dedicated to overpowering everything and stripping away the consequences of not aiming well or moving well, it’s no wonder the subjective problem crops up). Lay out the All Important mods and arcanes and schools, and then compare how small that list is to anything else we can equip. And then break that sure-fire-win combination into the individual parts and mix and match them with any of the other “Useless mods (or arcanes or whatever)”, and then you can get your consequences for playing poorly, because you’re stuck with what you brought for the entire mission. Believe it or not, those mods and schools and arcanes you poo-poo’d before are there for a reason, and personally I hope they keep adding more.

I’ve seen players lamenting that their early days were ones of actual fighting, as if there was anything different to the early days and now, aside from options available to approach the same fight in different ways.

 

Regarding immersion; now see, that’s a harder one to argue against because it’s so subjective. I get the idea of immersion; I wouldn’t be enjoying Warframe as much if I didn’t immerse myself into a world where I’ve got a mutt-of-a-Kubrow at my side and the ability to jump from Orokin architecture to flying a Railjack to some calm mining to some mini-game k-driving.

But there’s something missing that I think your average veteran may have forgotten; we started out with the inability to stand against mighty foes, and then gained access to the tools that let us go toe-to-toe with them as long as we started specialising in the power aspect, and then became able to supersede if we really specialised in power for those missions where we needed to specifically forma for the damage and the health. It’s all what we choose to equip and what we’re choosing to sacrifice, and not everyone is willing to specialise so heavily in power because not everyone is willing to go so far beyond overkill, especially if it comes at a cost (hello, boredom).

And with that said, all of this is not intrinsic to us. We found these mods and arcanes, but they’re not grafted into our bodies or superglued into slots, they’re swappable. So swap them!

[(PSN)xFelipeRage]

9 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

I like Warframe, and I'd like to play it, yet I have no motivation to do so. And I feel a lot of older players have the same issue.

So what is stopping me? Let me explain:

• The entire game consists of very short, very simple, very easy missions that I am expected to repeat ad nauseam. These last around 1 minute each (technically survival lasts 5 minutes/10 on sorties IIRC, but there really is no objective at all). I can live with that, I don't need hour long raids every 3 months, but these missions hardly change at all for literal years! I really do not understand how you can believe the small selection of spy missions available, for example, would be able to entertain a human being for years without even any randomization.
• Lack of challenge. I can beat level 9999 steel path mot with 4 dragon keys equipped, and it's pretty boring even. Nothing in a regular mission presents the slightest challenge or threat, unless I use bad equippment. However, warframe is NOT mechanically engaging enough to make using bad equipment fun or challenging, it's just a chore.
• Lack of variety. If a new weapon comes out, I ask myself: "Does this proc slash?" because if the answer is no, the weapon is useless against armor. 98% damage reduction AFTER stripping 95% of an enemies armor means I have no use at all for things like puncture damage. Sure, I could use a puncture based weapon against low level enemies, but I'm not going to level and invest forma into it, when I have vastly superior equippment. Leveling things in this game is a boring chore, forcing me to do pointless, meaningless, entirely uninteresting missions.
• The games main selling point (using a warframe is fun, it feels good) gets it's legs cut off by undercooked and/or bugged game mechanics all the time. I will list a number of examples:

Stuff like railjack, the operator, necramechs, in other words "not using a warframe" simply feels worse than using a warframe. Of course the warframes inherent mobility and animations play a role here, but also balancing, undercooked mechanics, clunky transitions (for example due to latency), severely underdeveloped characteristics (fokus).

A lot of things in this game disable the "sprinting" toggle, making the player move unpleasantly slow until toggled on again. This includes mobility abilities like vial rush, entirely defeating their point and/or pointlessly forcing a play to retoggle sprinting over and over and over. It's unpleasant, it's a chore, and it's embarassing for you, I'd think.

Melee combos have been severely downgraded in many cases. There are many weapon classes I have categorically no interest in whatsoever, because they have NO stance offering the following qualities: Being able to attack while moving uninterrupted OR having an effective dash attack, having 4 different combos with different usecases, having decent damage multipliers compared to other stances, having forced slash procs. Some stances have NONE of these qualities, few have all of them (barely, with good will).

1001 bugs (actually, add a couple 0's there) that make abilities and/or equipment feel terrible to use like: Condition overload and other mods having no effect when they should have, glaives randomly losing combo multiplier despite retaining the combo counter, vex armor having no effect vs special enemies, tornado being killable, shield gating not working properly under certain circumstances, and one of my personal least favourites, gun/melee switching displacing the warframe and players aim under ceartain circumstances.

Regarding those bugs, there are many more, of course, but all of those mentioned have been reported by me personally, some of them YEARS ago (and multiple times), but they just never get fixed. Like this one:

In fact I'd really like your feedback on this bug in particular, it really makes me not want to use melee outside of melee only mode (or not at all currently, thanks to explosive weapons). Do other people just not notice these bugs, or why can they persist for years unadressed?

Anyhow, I'll of course be checking out the new war, eventually, but other than that I'm not seeing myself play warframe in the forseeable future. Thanks for listening to my Ted talk.

As you can see, unfortunately the community of this game doens't take criticism seriously, they make jokes and don't like people who talk about the real problems of the game, that's why the game continues with so many bugs and with several other problems.

DE is lazy, it seems that they don't play their own game and several users of this forum who thinks that they are owners of truth and aways with pathetic arguments like "don't play then" or "the problem is you".

I've been thinking on record every bug that I have almost every day on youtube as well because its sad how many there are that haven't been fixed.

[Felsagger]

46 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I'm beginning to realize that posters like this actually love Warframe far more than i do. 

 

 

Maybe, just maybe many of us want a better game out of Warframe after all. 

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

48 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I'm beginning to realize that posters like this actually love Warframe far more than i do. 

 

Players who quietly stop playing and move on don't care about the game. Those who stop playing and still make their voices heard still care about the game.

[-AncientWarrior-]

8 hours ago, Myscho said:

If those bugs are not game breaking, DE dont care

lol they dont care even if they are game breaking .. its when the players start making excess rewards DE care!

[-AncientWarrior-]

5 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

 

Maybe, just maybe many of us want a better game out of Warframe after all. 

true because we can see the POTENTIAL DE had with this WF.. and they dropped the ball again and again

[Felsagger]

34 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

You want certainty in a fight that if you don’t perform well, you get punished? 

Skill should return. Aim speed should return. Ability of movement and judgment should return. Aim precision should return. These are skills that are present in Halo Infinite, Overwatch and many other games. 

 

Warframes are way too off the chart in comparison to a single Grineer. No single Grineer stand a chance against any Warframe. That is a problem. In Halo Infinite an Elite can teach Chief some lessons on why is important of not being dumb. 

34 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

....Lay out the All Important mods and arcanes and schools, and then compare how small that list is to anything else we can equip......

Yes, it reduces to classical load outs of rocket launchers, snipers, rifles, snipers, hit scan beam weapons, stream weapons and machine guns among other classes like bows. There are just a few that are not labeled as loadouts. But there are not many weapons other than reskins and rehashes of those families. 

[Felsagger]

2 minutes ago, -AncientWarrior- said:

true because we can see the POTENTIAL DE had with this WF.. and they dropped the ball again and again

Even if we plug money in their asses they will not listen. 

If they where more aware of the potential in this game I am sure that the story would be completely different. Imagine this concept in the hands of Insomniac. 

[Hypernaut1]

8 minutes ago, (PSN)DoctorWho_90250 said:

Players who quietly stop playing and move on don't care about the game. Those who stop playing and still make their voices heard still care about the game.

I care about the game, I just don't treat it like a break up if I get bored of it after playing for 1000s of hours. 

[Tesseract7777]

20 minutes ago, (PSN)DoctorWho_90250 said:

Players who quietly stop playing and move on don't care about the game. Those who stop playing and still make their voices heard still care about the game.

Sounds unhealthy tbh. 

People like Zilchy have disappeared, and good to his word, when he quit, at least for a time, he wouldn't announce it with a laundry list of complaints.

Just quietly fade away.

Sorry but those who make big dramatic rants about how they barely play or why they have quit, if it IS a "care" about the game, it is a very unhealthy, obsessive care, where you care about it being exactly what you want it to be FOR YOU, RIGHT NOW, but it is a narrowminded, tunnel vision mindest, almost always from people with super high MR who have basically "beaten the game" in every respect possible, and have ZERO left to do, except wait to come back for a bit for big updates, like the OP admits they will do.

Some of the people who agree with this most are MR30++ who have literally everything except playing the riven game. 

If you reach that point and beat the game you can't call it a Warframe problem.

Yes, some people "care about the game" far too much, and need to step back if they need to post a treatise about why they don't play, when the real reason is they literally have everything in a non PVP game, so there is nothing left to do. 

They can come back for big updates. But there is nothing else for them to do. That isn't the fault of DE, or of them. They beat the game. And that's that. 

[(NSW)Greybones]

4 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Skill should return. Aim speed should return. Ability of movement and judgment should return. Aim precision should return. These are skills that are present in Halo Infinite, Overwatch and many other games. 

 

Warframes are way too off the chart in comparison to a single Grineer. No single Grineer stand a chance against any Warframe. That is a problem. In Halo Infinite an Elite can teach Chief some lessons on why is important of not being dumb. 

Yes, it reduces to classical load outs of rocket launchers, snipers, rifles, snipers, hit scan beam weapons, stream weapons and machine guns among other classes like bows. There are just a few that are not labeled as loadouts. But there are not many weapons other than reskins and rehashes of those families. 

😐

So skill and judgement and aiming and all that should return by introducing a fight that you need the most mandatory of mods and Arcanes and schools equipped just to meet the enemy on their level. And the fight also needs to make it so that you don’t have anything AI-breaking even though you built for it, and it also needs to make that Godroll riven be required to meet the enemy on their level, because otherwise the fight will be too easy if the riven were used.

And this needs to be a thing that occurs across the game, so that the most mandatory of mods will need to be required to do a Railjack mission, or a Lith fissure, or a bounty. And it needs to be a choice, like a hard mode toggle or something. Does this sound about right?

[(NSW)Greybones]

As an aside, @Felsagger, what would you say if a.) DE introduced a mod that didn’t increase our power, or b.) DE introduced a mod that did increase our power.

Because we’ve only got limited slots, and if the new mod is going to find a place to fit, something’s going to have to be changed out

[OneFlyingDog]

When an employee resigns, s/he is asked to complete an exit survey.
 

When a player quits or intents to quit, s/he is better off leaving quietly. Can’t help but wonder, are proponents of those who attack those who post exiting remarks from rival companies? Or perhaps hellbent on watching WF die?

[PublikDomain]

32 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Some of the people who agree with this most are MR30++ who have literally everything except playing the riven game.

That highlights the problem at hand pretty well, I think. Are games meant to give you a checklist of items to collect, or are they meant to be played? Sure, people who are MR30+ have literally everything in the game. But after eight and a half years we still don't have anything to do with all that stuff (Edit: and in many ways, nowadays we have even less than we had before). Warframe is very lacking in long-term content for players to actually play. Is addressing that really such a terrible thing that it needs to be derided every time it gets brought up? More interesting gameplay? How ghastly. Wouldn't want that.

[Felsagger]

52 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

😐

So skill and judgement and aiming and all that should return by introducing a fight that you need the most mandatory of mods and Arcanes and schools equipped just to meet the enemy on their level. And the fight also needs to make it so that you don’t have anything AI-breaking even though you built for it, and it also needs to make that Godroll riven be required to meet the enemy on their level, because otherwise the fight will be too easy if the riven were used.

And this needs to be a thing that occurs across the game, so that the most mandatory of mods will need to be required to do a Railjack mission, or a Lith fissure, or a bounty. And it needs to be a choice, like a hard mode toggle or something. Does this sound about right?

That's NOT how it must be implemented. 

 

A mode called survival under special missions. If you stay for a while, the enemy increases in number and special troops. 

A horde mode with bosses where their number increase with better weapons. New enemies will appears here. 

A battlefront scenario where frames endure a battle and some special units between Grineer and Corpus fight each other. If the warframe stays he will deal with special forces of both teams. 

 

There could be particular modes for elite players. It would be a sub section of SP, steel path. 

[(NSW)Greybones]

19 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

That's NOT how it must be implemented. 

 

A mode called survival under special missions. If you stay for a while, the enemy increases in number and special troops. 

A horde mode with bosses where their number increase with better weapons. New enemies will appears here. 

A battlefront scenario where frames endure a battle and some special units between Grineer and Corpus fight each other. If the warframe stays he will deal with special forces of both teams. 

 

There could be particular modes for elite players. It would be a sub section of SP, steel path. 

Alright, so the idea is that new, special units are introduced that only players who have the most powerful equipment can engage with (I’m assuming these are the “elite players” you’re referring to, with their little badges indicating they made the best builds).

I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but most anyone’s ever been doing, even those asking for challenge, is turning special units into not-so-special units. The reason people have been asking for challenge is because they found the ideal way to avoid it; how will you deal with situations where someone’ll pat themselves on the back when they find the best way to make the fight easy, and that easy fight involves treating special units like fodder, and then the players want more challenge? Will the levels just scale infinitely? How long will someone using the easiest tactics have to wait until they can’t use the easiest tactics anymore?

edit: And then why does only someone who’s equipped all the power get a chance to play the new and interesting missions when I’ve got all these other builds, but I have to be railroaded into a single build just to get through the front door? Steel Path isn’t meant to be where the new content goes because it’s so broken

[KitMeHarder]

1 hour ago, Felsagger said:

I am sure that the story would be completely different. Imagine this concept in the hands of Insomniac.

Just to put it out there, I am not a lore guy and I have not read the rest of your discussion. But how is Insomniac anymore adept at making stories than DE? I have played all 3 of their Resistance titles quite a lot, and I know a bit about Sunset Overdrive. And I gotta say, I'm not anymore impressed with what I remember, compared to what Warframe has (especially since Resistance was a linear progression game). And not only do I not recall much praise for the story, but I do remember Resistance 3's story being quite disliked.

[TheArmchairThinker]

1 hour ago, PublikDomain said:

Warframe is very lacking in long-term content for players to actually play

And what do other games do for "long-term content" if not the same unending grind for best gear drop but at higher level? And define "actually play".