Why I'm not playing WF (at least currently)

[Kainosh]

12 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

• The entire game consists of very short, very simple, very easy missions that I am expected to repeat ad nauseam. These last around 1 minute each (technically survival lasts 5 minutes/10 on sorties IIRC, but there really is no objective at all). I can live with that, I don't need hour long raids every 3 months, but these missions hardly change at all for literal years! I really do not understand how you can believe the small selection of spy missions available, for example, would be able to entertain a human being for years without even any randomization.
• Lack of challenge. I can beat level 9999 steel path mot with 4 dragon keys equipped, and it's pretty boring even. Nothing in a regular mission presents the slightest challenge or threat, unless I use bad equippment. However, warframe is NOT mechanically engaging enough to make using bad equipment fun or challenging, it's just a chore.
• Lack of variety. If a new weapon comes out, I ask myself: "Does this proc slash?" because if the answer is no, the weapon is useless against armor. 98% damage reduction AFTER stripping 95% of an enemies armor means I have no use at all for things like puncture damage. Sure, I could use a puncture based weapon against low level enemies, but I'm not going to level and invest forma into it, when I have vastly superior equippment. Leveling things in this game is a boring chore, forcing me to do pointless, meaningless, entirely uninteresting missions.

Same here.   Mainly, its old missions.  All the same throughout entire starchart, both normal and SP.    I expected it to be much harder to Capture at SP or High level....but all it takes is just more damage. No traps, no mechanics to build against, target still have no guards, it still runs away and never even uses lockdown to cut you off, encouraging hacking mod usage or such.

Procedural generation is pointless.   It doesn't add anything to gameplay.   Actually, it takes away more than it gives.   You can't make every node feel unique, with its own enemy spawns, traps and structure. Random generation mixes it all up.    Would be great if DE started redoing all nodes, one by one, making each one unique and with its own enemy set and stuff.

 

About weapons...... IMO, enemy scaling and weapon tiers have to go (I seriously investigated this sht...scaling really does no good for games, apart from fake progression feel).  Look at frames. You can use any to play anything, coz they have no tiers. Yet weapons get tossed away because of tiers.

    Some might say "But there will be no reason to get new weapons and upgrade them", but thats just foolish. Right now i play DRG, and there are no weapon tiers.  You can play all of it with starter weapons, coz they are all balanced....But guess what? People still use various weapons and builds. Always trying something new.  Coz its fun when you can just take whatever gun you like, make any build and play on ANY difficulty level without your weapon feeling useless.

Enemy EHP should be somewhat equal to frame EHP.    3 tiers.  Heavy (Heavy gunner, Grendel), Medium (Excal, Elite lancer) and Light (Nova, Butcher).   

With this, Self damage, Environmental/trap damage and all other sources of damage that get broken by scaling can now be fixed and work properly.

Enemy difficulty and amounts can be adjusted/ increased  manually to provide proper challenge at harder nodes.

[MagPrime]

13 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

I like Warframe, and I'd like to play it, yet I have no motivation to do so. And I feel a lot of older players have the same issue.

So what is stopping me? Let me explain:

• The entire game consists of very short, very simple, very easy missions that I am expected to repeat ad nauseam. These last around 1 minute each (technically survival lasts 5 minutes/10 on sorties IIRC, but there really is no objective at all). I can live with that, I don't need hour long raids every 3 months, but these missions hardly change at all for literal years! I really do not understand how you can believe the small selection of spy missions available, for example, would be able to entertain a human being for years without even any randomization.
• Lack of challenge. I can beat level 9999 steel path mot with 4 dragon keys equipped, and it's pretty boring even. Nothing in a regular mission presents the slightest challenge or threat, unless I use bad equippment. However, warframe is NOT mechanically engaging enough to make using bad equipment fun or challenging, it's just a chore.
• Lack of variety. If a new weapon comes out, I ask myself: "Does this proc slash?" because if the answer is no, the weapon is useless against armor. 98% damage reduction AFTER stripping 95% of an enemies armor means I have no use at all for things like puncture damage. Sure, I could use a puncture based weapon against low level enemies, but I'm not going to level and invest forma into it, when I have vastly superior equippment. Leveling things in this game is a boring chore, forcing me to do pointless, meaningless, entirely uninteresting missions.
• The games main selling point (using a warframe is fun, it feels good) gets it's legs cut off by undercooked and/or bugged game mechanics all the time. I will list a number of examples:

Stuff like railjack, the operator, necramechs, in other words "not using a warframe" simply feels worse than using a warframe. Of course the warframes inherent mobility and animations play a role here, but also balancing, undercooked mechanics, clunky transitions (for example due to latency), severely underdeveloped characteristics (fokus).

A lot of things in this game disable the "sprinting" toggle, making the player move unpleasantly slow until toggled on again. This includes mobility abilities like vial rush, entirely defeating their point and/or pointlessly forcing a play to retoggle sprinting over and over and over. It's unpleasant, it's a chore, and it's embarassing for you, I'd think.

Melee combos have been severely downgraded in many cases. There are many weapon classes I have categorically no interest in whatsoever, because they have NO stance offering the following qualities: Being able to attack while moving uninterrupted OR having an effective dash attack, having 4 different combos with different usecases, having decent damage multipliers compared to other stances, having forced slash procs. Some stances have NONE of these qualities, few have all of them (barely, with good will).

1001 bugs (actually, add a couple 0's there) that make abilities and/or equipment feel terrible to use like: Condition overload and other mods having no effect when they should have, glaives randomly losing combo multiplier despite retaining the combo counter, vex armor having no effect vs special enemies, tornado being killable, shield gating not working properly under certain circumstances, and one of my personal least favourites, gun/melee switching displacing the warframe and players aim under ceartain circumstances.

Regarding those bugs, there are many more, of course, but all of those mentioned have been reported by me personally, some of them YEARS ago (and multiple times), but they just never get fixed. Like this one:

In fact I'd really like your feedback on this bug in particular, it really makes me not want to use melee outside of melee only mode (or not at all currently, thanks to explosive weapons). Do other people just not notice these bugs, or why can they persist for years unadressed?

Anyhow, I'll of course be checking out the new war, eventually, but other than that I'm not seeing myself play warframe in the forseeable future. Thanks for listening to my Ted talk.

I still pop in and do nightmare and some weeklies but other than that, some of your points hold true to my experience. 

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

13 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

The clue is in the title. It isn't "I don't play the game bye", but "Here's why I don't play the game right now". Presumably DE wants players to play their game, and understanding why a lot of players are currently choosing not to do so might be helpful to them.

What I don't get is why you chose to comment on a topic you professedly do not care about. If this was true, why would you not just ignore it?

Then why don't you post this feedback in you know the feedback section, cause honestly you just post this in general to create an echo chamber.

[Traumtulpe]

18 minutes ago, (XBOX)The Neko Otaku said:

Then why don't you post this feedback in you know the feedback section, cause honestly you just post this in general to create an echo chamber.

To have a discussion? The feedback section might as well be called the garbage bin.

[Traumtulpe]

4 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

The feedback section might as well be called the garbage bin.

To iterate on this, when I look at the feedback section, there is always, without fail, at least one thread called something like "Please rework Atlas", and another one called "Please rework Valkyr". These are made by different people, but the threads stay the same, year after year, after year. I made one myself like 4 years ago, and another one about a year later before I gave up.

That forum exists for players to write their wishes into the sky, not for anyone at DE to read.

[Tesseract7777]

7 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

That highlights the problem at hand pretty well, I think. Are games meant to give you a checklist of items to collect, or are they meant to be played? Sure, people who are MR30+ have literally everything in the game. But after eight and a half years we still don't have anything to do with all that stuff (Edit: and in many ways, nowadays we have even less than we had before). Warframe is very lacking in long-term content for players to actually play. Is addressing that really such a terrible thing that it needs to be derided every time it gets brought up? More interesting gameplay? How ghastly. Wouldn't want that.

I would argue on a certain level those people did find the gameplay interesting up until now or they wouldn't have stuck around long enough to fill out that whole checklist.

Because it is a TON of items.

They are just bored with all the different things to do in game, because they have done them so many times in order to fill out that checklist.

I could write out a huge list of interesting gameplay in Warframe, that I am not yet bored with. And more new types of things are added every update, to the horror of those who aren't yet MR30, who think content is continuing to get overly long in the tooth with new stuff added for the bored vets (like necramechs nobody asked for). 

[Felsagger]

7 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Alright, so the idea is that new, special units are introduced that only players who have the most powerful equipment can engage with (I’m assuming these are the “elite players” you’re referring to, with their little badges indicating they made the best builds).

I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but most anyone’s ever been doing, even those asking for challenge, is turning special units into not-so-special units. The reason people have been asking for challenge is because they found the ideal way to avoid it; how will you deal with situations where someone’ll pat themselves on the back when they find the best way to make the fight easy, and that easy fight involves treating special units like fodder, and then the players want more challenge? Will the levels just scale infinitely? How long will someone using the easiest tactics have to wait until they can’t use the easiest tactics anymore?

edit: And then why does only someone who’s equipped all the power get a chance to play the new and interesting missions when I’ve got all these other builds, but I have to be railroaded into a single build just to get through the front door? Steel Path isn’t meant to be where the new content goes because it’s so broken

 

Yes the same problem of inclusion and exclusion. 

 

There are ways to settle this. Everybody has a chance to find these troops everywhere in the game. However these are way stronger. Adept builds will dispatch while new players are forced to flee and run. 

It happens that progression should be tied to this. Everybody will see these troops but engagement will happen with more adept players. Sadly we need a system that separates level of progression. A new player will NOT defeat these troops easily if he is not equipped. 

It's like everything in life. If you have the hardware you can perform the job. Yes everybody may have a chance at it but these enemies increase in number and capability if the player is super advanced on those certain missions that I quoted before. 

Power creeping is a problem yes. But how we leverage challenge to everybody. That problem is way harder to solve. 

 

 

[Felsagger]

7 hours ago, KitMeHarder said:

Just to put it out there, I am not a lore guy and I have not read the rest of your discussion. But how is Insomniac anymore adept at making stories than DE? I have played all 3 of their Resistance titles quite a lot, and I know a bit about Sunset Overdrive. And I gotta say, I'm not anymore impressed with what I remember, compared to what Warframe has (especially since Resistance was a linear progression game). And not only do I not recall much praise for the story, but I do remember Resistance 3's story being quite disliked.

Fact:

Insomniac > Digital Extremes. 

Proof: 

https://www.metacritic.com/company/insomniac-games Career score 79

https://www.metacritic.com/company/digital-extremes Career score 69

 

[(NSW)Greybones]

6 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

 

Yes the same problem of inclusion and exclusion. 

 

There are ways to settle this. Everybody has a chance to find these troops everywhere in the game. However these are way stronger. Adept builds will dispatch while new players are forced to flee and run. 

It happens that progression should be tied to this. Everybody will see these troops but engagement will happen with more adept players. Sadly we need a system that separates level of progression. A new player will NOT defeat these troops easily if he is not equipped. 

It's like everything in life. If you have the hardware you can perform the job. Yes everybody may have a chance at it but these enemies increase in number and capability if the player is super advanced on those certain missions that I quoted before. 

Power creeping is a problem yes. But how we leverage challenge to everybody. That problem is way harder to solve. 

 

 

I dunno, seems kind of easy to me.

I’m not the one running from the thing I’m searching for though.

🤔 Maybe it’s a presentation thing. “If you players play with this certain build, there’s prestige to be earned”, and it can be another Grendel mission, but with a limited selection of mods that don’t increase damage or health, but still lets builds happen.

Because there’s this weird hangup going on, and I’m beginning to wonder if it’s a validation thing where the important aspect isn’t the challenge, but rather the fact that it’s exclusive.

Which can be solved by a Grendel mission, but it’s called “Elite mode” or something, and it’s reserved for only those who unlocked everything. If it’s about the prestige, then the lack of damage and health-increasing shouldn’t be a problem since those were mere crutches anyway

[SneakyErvin]

I'm looking at the video and go "who spins like that in normal gameplay?"

I dont think I've had the Nikana stance fail me a single time to get me exactly where I want. I doubt it is even considered a bug when you need so many things to align to shift you slightly sideways on the start of the dash.

2 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Power creeping is a problem yes. But how we leverage challenge to everybody. That problem is way harder to solve. 

It would be quite easy if it wasnt for the insanity of WF power creep and AoE options. You can just look at Outriders or D3, both with working systems that allows people to push, either infinitely to their own limit or within a set amount of tiers. Outriders still manages to keep it "challenging" for the most part even with only 15 tiers of difficulty, because the game has an actual power ceiling when it comes to itemization. Unawareness in that game also gets you killed, since snipers, melee mobs and shotgunners are actually dangerous.

The game lacks insane AoE options, which is what makes it work. You still mow down hordes of enemies in a massive power fantasy. But they have the chance to fight back. It also has actual elites and "mini-bosses" among the normal mobs, things you actually need to watch out for, with classic arpg abilities that can turn areas into death traps.

The power and range for AoE skills and weapons need to get toned down in WF. That is the first step to a healthier game. And our movement could likely get reduced a notch.

 

[SneakyErvin]

15 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Fact:

Insomniac > Digital Extremes. 

Proof: 

https://www.metacritic.com/company/insomniac-games Career score 79

https://www.metacritic.com/company/digital-extremes Career score 69

 

That doesnt really imply either does better stories than the other.

[Felsagger]

11 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

I dunno, seems kind of easy to me.

I’m not the one running from the thing I’m searching for though.

🤔 Maybe it’s a presentation thing. “If you players play with this certain build, there’s prestige to be earned”, and it can be another Grendel mission, but with a limited selection of mods that don’t increase damage or health, but still lets builds happen.

Because there’s this weird hangup going on, and I’m beginning to wonder if it’s a validation thing where the important aspect isn’t the challenge, but rather the fact that it’s exclusive.

Which can be solved by a Grendel mission, but it’s called “Elite mode” or something, and it’s reserved for only those who unlocked everything. If it’s about the prestige, then the lack of damage and health-increasing shouldn’t be a problem since those were mere crutches anyway

Yes this seems plausible. I agree with this solution that is taking place. It can be edited and evolved of course but we need to start somewhere at least. 

[Felsagger]

4 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

That doesnt really imply either does better stories than the other.

 

Insomniac is a LORE CENTERED STORY TELLING SINGLE PLAYER developer. 

 

Haven't you noticed this since 1994? Roflmmao. 

[(NSW)Greybones]

10 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Yes this seems plausible. I agree with this solution that is taking place. It can be edited and evolved of course but we need to start somewhere at least. 

Hm. I didn’t expect to like this idea that I’d sort of made up on the spot, but it’s kind of appealing, and it’d be pretty easy for me to get some enjoyment out of it

And then all sorts of unique enemies and mission types, like the aforementioned Survival and Battlefront, can be leveraged across the game, but only Elite players will be facing them at their toughest. 🤔 Definitely food for thought, personally

[Felsagger]

I see your concern. 

These troops may appear in many missions so new players familiarize themselves with these enemies. These can happen in Plaines of Eidolons, Fortuna and Deimos. These troops may be there so everybody engage them and see where their builds are at with respect to these special forces. 

Perhaps. 

[SneakyErvin]

10 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

 

Insomniac is a LORE CENTERED STORY TELLING SINGLE PLAYER developer. 

 

Haven't you noticed this since 1994? Roflmmao. 

And? The score isnt there specifically because of the story.

[Felsagger]

7 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

And? The score isnt there specifically because of the story.

That score is there BECAUSE THEY HAVE AN OVERALL BETTER TRACK RECORD. 

Do we need to say more? 

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, Felsagger said:

That score is there BECAUSE THEY HAVE AN OVERALL BETTER TRACK RECORD. 

Do we need to say more? 

But you claimed it was tied to the story of the games. You even bolded that in the post you quoted. You used a metacritic score to try and prove that insomniac was more adept at making stories, which is not something the score shows.

[Felsagger]

lmao, claimed where, lol? Ervin, are you all right, tiger. :p

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

16 hours ago, Vaml77 said:

i stopped playing warframe because of the sorties....not worth my precious time. After spending almost 30 min killing ambulances and at the end getting an endo/anasa or rizen zaw/kitgun/forma or kuva I realized that the game STEALS my time....warframe is a game that is very outdated and incredibly boring! I don't even want to know about the next update....the game has become really irrelevant to me. After I stopped playing warframe I can see how much warframe is deficient in terms of fun and variety/rewards. Sorties are something that consume a lot of our time for nothing interesting. The DE team is going to have to rethink the entire game or they're going to go downhill from there.... by the way...they're already at rock bottom.

For real? How many times are you gonna say you don't like or play warframe, just for you to keep hanging out on the forums? Who hangs out on the forums of a game they don't like anymore? The game isn't perfect, everyone can see that, but you specifically just keep hanging around to be a downer. What's the point in that? It's not even constructive criticism anymore.

[Felsagger]

Just now, (PSN)ErydisTheLucario said:

For real? How many times are you gonna say you don't like or play warframe, just for you to keep hanging out on the forums? Who hangs out on the forums of a game they don't like anymore?

Lucario, you will be surprised how many people have more fun writing in a forum board than playing a video game. It has nothing to do if he likes or not the game. I think it has to do that the game right now is just floating there and people are just bored. 

I don't log on much because I don't have much to do in the game but I still like it and play it. See? 

[SneakyErvin]

3 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

lmao, claimed where, lol? Ervin, are you all right, tiger. :p

When you bolded that part of the post in your quote. That is what such formating does, puts emphasis on certain aspect of an argument. Dont bold things if you try to provide overarching answers or proof. 

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

12 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Lucario, you will be surprised how many people have more fun writing in a forum board than playing a video game. It has nothing to do if he likes or not the game. I think it has to do that the game right now is just floating there and people are just bored. 

I don't log on much because I don't have much to do in the game but I still like it and play it. See? 

You I get, but at least you offer something constructive when you post and I do see you ingame everyone once in a while chatting up the clan. Vaml legitimately just hangs out here to be a downer. He's not offering constructive criticism, its always drive by insults about the game. I just don't understand.

 

Edit: Now that I think about it, not a big deal. It shouldn't bother me as much as it does. Will just block him to avoid his negativity. 

[Felsagger]

17 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

When you bolded that part of the post in your quote. That is what such formating does, puts emphasis on certain aspect of an argument. Dont bold things if you try to provide overarching answers or proof. 

That's my business, not yours. p

[Felsagger]

15 minutes ago, (PSN)ErydisTheLucario said:

You I get, but at least you offer something constructive when you post and I do see you ingame everyone once in a while chatting up the clan. Vaml legitimately just hangs out here to be a downer. He's not offering constructive criticism, its always drive by insults about the game. I just don't understand.

 

Edit: Now that I think about it, not a big deal. It shouldn't bother me as much as it does. Will just block him to avoid his negativity. 

I see what you mean. 

I confess, I swing my bat harsh towards this game too but I have a purpose for it. I see everything 50/50. I don't write love letters to fans, applaud every feature of the game or write love letters to DE. They do their job, I do mine. 

Some users can simply be skipped. Let them vent. I vent too. Everybody does. Games are not perfect either. Constructive criticism takes a lot of skill because that is another league on its own. That imply more than just playing. It implies how the game works and what things benefits the game or halt it. 

I do understand from where you come. I am perceived as a "negative Nancy" for my inquiries on the forums. However I give credit where is due. Warframe has great things and retained me for a lot of time. I had and still have fun with the game. That alone proves that the game IS NOT mediocre at all. 

But there are many lost opportunities. Yes DE are humans and they have a loaded agenda every day. But some love on the details doesn't hurt either. The game grew up and became a good package. We want more love into it. 

Maybe I demand too much. I think that is my fault. : (