Are you ever going to fix SHIELDS?. Shield gating SUCKS.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

This reads more like a criticism to shields and its value versus the value of shield gating mechanic. Which I think is a valid criticism. 

That being said, I take a bunch of different Warframes, into various Steel Path missions, for various amounts of time, I never take a Decaying Key, I never consciously shield gate, but I probably do benefit from it now and then. What about its existence requires urgent attention specifically? That some players may feel forced to optimise into such builds to maximise shield gating potential? That some content may require it? That it can lead to conflict/competition with some builds? I think you could have branching conversations of that. 

I think building to exploit shield gating is a bit silly, but also, I don't do that, nor ever feel the need to. Also, its removal would be really annoying, because a lot of the ways certain enemies in the game can deal damage can be funky, and I would see its removal leading to "cheap" deaths. It can give a bit of breathing room, to employ evasive, defensive tactics. Also with Styanax, I could see how his passive works against this... but his passive increases his survivability. There is greater context here, and some push and pull can occur. Like one could say that his 2 works against his 4, because the 2 can remove armour, but if the 4 does a lot of slash damage, and is great against armour, whats the point? Well the context and situation is the point. For people that don't care to build to maximise shield gating, the passive will be welcome.

[Graavarg]

6 hours ago, m_a_r_c_h_ said:

Shield gating definitely does not suck. I know this community likes its nerfs and all, but how does it negatively affect your gameplay?

Shield gating was part of Damage/Armor change back in (early?) 2020, a DE "not-so-well-thought-out" buff to make the "change pill" easier to swallow for the community. Said community, which in this regard is the sum of all it's brilliant minds, quickly figured out that you could "exploit" the new shield system by "destroying" your shields. For some reason DE let this go on and on, just like the AoE spam idiocy.

There is no other problem with shield-gating than that the whole idea originally is a DE "fix-mechanic" in the damage system, and while it can be utilized mathematically as a tool in-game it is totally counter-intuitive and, in that regard, "game immersion"-breaking. So the problem is not that it is game breaking as such.

In my opinion such anti-immersion stuff should be removed immediately or quickly from any game, even from a space power fantasy horde shooter.  Since playing Warframe as a mathematical exercise, while fun in it's own way, has no legs of longevity to stand on. In this regard Warframe is the same as any game, if you can "game the game" mathematically you will "win", but the magic from playing that game will be gone.

So while (quite) effective in gameplay when used right it is basically "totally and completely silly" from a Warframe universe perspective. It could also easily be changed from the current "coded system mechanic" and instead be based on a mod or arcane and called "sphere of undying" or something, with the same effect (or an even better one, I have nothing against the idea). It could even be changed to a "mini-rift" effect, though while that would explain the protection (coming from being "rifted" for X.X seconds) within the current "universe" it would probably seriously piss some players off.

[Lutesque]

I get the feeling People Reccomending Adaptation Completely Forgot how it Actually works....

Yes Adaptation Can Allow you To Shield Tank at Really High Levels... Including Steel Path.... But only Against Continuous Damage.... As soon as a Bombard or Any Unit That Deals Damage Of a Different Type in Large Bursts Shows up... Considered Yourself Screwed....

Bombard Rockets Deal Blast Damage.... And when One Sneaks Up Behind you and Hits you Your Adaptation won't have Any Stacks Built Up For Blast Damage On It.... Meaning you will Take 100% Of The Damage.... And since you are Shield Tanking instead Of Shield Gating You're effectively Going to Die as soon as your Shield Gate Runs out.....

I'm not Going to Go Over the Draw Backs of Subsuming Abilities To Make this type of Survival method Semi-Viable because I've Had that Argument 50 Times Already.... 

I just Wanted to Throw in my Two Cents as someone who Doesn't Use the Shield Gate and Helminth Crutch Meta ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Prexades]

I think shield gating could use a bit of adjustment. Non shield focused Warframe could get a slightly increased shield restore delay. The delay should also work with mods that provide shield for using abilities for examples. The shield points only getting applied once the gate delay expired.

[Dunkelheit]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb 0_The_F00l:

I was around before they implemented shield gating ,

I assure you that it is a good mechanic for the frames that didn't have high health or Armor values.

The decaying key effect on the other hand ... I personally don't like , feels borderline bug abuse to me, but meh not really getting in my way so others are free to use it.

A valid reason to actively build for more shields (not overshields) is lacking though, 

Ability to build overshields + adaptation is great , but just higher base shields should have a little more advantages i feel.

 

The Dragon key effect should not benefit shield gating. This is an exploit and should be closed, because it makes you basically unkillable and the game boring. There cannot be any challenge in the game till this is fixed.

[0_The_F00l]

6 minutes ago, Dunkelheit said:

 

The Dragon key effect should not benefit shield gating. This is an exploit and should be closed, because it makes you basically unkillable and the game boring. There cannot be any challenge in the game till this is fixed.

I don't like it , but i don't care too deeply for it.

Is it an Exploit ? Borderline , as you need to spend energy to gain shields so being out of energy would counter it. Players are using tools within the confines of their purpose. But they are using it to achieve things which were not intended.

If they changed the invulnerability time to be a function of max modded shields this would be "fixed" i guess.

Again , not too strongly for or against it.

[cute_moth.npc]

1 hour ago, 0_The_F00l said:

I don't like it , but i don't care too deeply for it.

Is it an Exploit ? Borderline , as you need to spend energy to gain shields so being out of energy would counter it. Players are using tools within the confines of their purpose. But they are using it to achieve things which were not intended.

If they changed the invulnerability time to be a function of max modded shields this would be "fixed" i guess.

Again , not too strongly for or against it.

I am honestly actually for it staying as-is right now, even though I personally feel like I'm encouraging even more face tanking lol.

This game exists for a bunch of types of players, some of them want a less stressful gameplay experience and the level of effort other players on my team are putting in to stay alive doesn't change my own gameplay experience.

The game already offers easy easy survivability through Warframes that go invisible, invulnerable, block projectiles, etc. Zephyr just has to not get melee'd, Revenant is going to have to push a button every like 20 seconds at least, to be invulnerable. It's going to be brain dead. I think that's fine, too. The devs literally encourage low stress survival options, key usage does not honestly do much for changing that aside from letting players expand the selection of which Warframes are extremely easy to survive on which I think is okay.

[SneakyErvin]

It isnt exactly DE's problem that people use dragon keys so no reason they should take the dragon key into account when releasing new frame mechanics. They left the dragon key mechanic in the game since people wanted it, use it if you like or use the frames that benefit from high shields without the key. It is really as simple as that. And with Stankleynax I see no problem in replacing his #1 with either condemn or pillage.

[Silligoose]

On 2022-09-04 at 12:03 AM, xxvaderxxar said:

Shield gating is such a bad mechanic, you are about to drop your 50th frame, a shield based frame, and this mechanic actively works AGAINST its passive.

They probably aren't going to fix it.

I'll admit I enjoy playing with shield gating builds, but I don't think DE recognizes how negatively it is impacting the game, or the balance, or diversity at higher levels of play, or their ability to have an engaging, diverse endgame in the future.

Even if they do, they certainly do not seem interested in addressing it - they've not shown much interest in addressing causes of imbalances across various mechanics and imbalances pertaining to frame durability or durability mechanics are no exception.

[MutoManiac]

On 2022-09-04 at 1:51 PM, cute_moth.npc said:

I am honestly actually for it staying as-is right now, even though I personally feel like I'm encouraging even more face tanking lol.

This game exists for a bunch of types of players, some of them want a less stressful gameplay experience and the level of effort other players on my team are putting in to stay alive doesn't change my own gameplay experience.

The game already offers easy easy survivability through Warframes that go invisible, invulnerable, block projectiles, etc. Zephyr just has to not get melee'd, Revenant is going to have to push a button every like 20 seconds at least, to be invulnerable. It's going to be brain dead. I think that's fine, too. The devs literally encourage low stress survival options, key usage does not honestly do much for changing that aside from letting players expand the selection of which Warframes are extremely easy to survive on which I think is okay.

I’m a bunch of types of player, lol. I love face tanking and having more survivability options.  Can’t wait for Revenant, the new meta 😉

[Rakosta_Kai]

58 minutes ago, Silligoose said:

I'll admit I enjoy playing with shield gating builds, but I don't think DE recognizes how negatively it is impacting the game, or the balance, or diversity at higher levels of play, or their ability to have an engaging, diverse endgame in the future.

Do tell...
How exactly is it negatively impacting the game, balance, diversity at higher levels of play, or DE's ability to have an engaging, diverse endgame in the future?

[Silligoose]

6 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Do tell...
How exactly is it negatively impacting the game, balance, diversity at higher levels of play, or DE's ability to have an engaging, diverse endgame in the future?

Since it allows for less resources to be dedicated to durability within builds in order to be durable enough to tank incoming damage on repeat, it allows for more resources to be spent on strength, efficiency, range, duration, damage etc which has further exacerbated power creep - shield gating has contributed to the player's ability to push out more damage, cc for longer, spam abilities more often and affect greater areas.

Since shield gating is a far more effective method of durability than higher shield/hp/armour builds in situations where frames get pushed to their limit,  the vast majority of frames, playing towards the limit of potential, play very similarly. What is the most important factor in dealing with incoming damage when using a glass cannon? Speed? Positioning? No, shield gating. What is the most important factor in dealing with incoming damage when using a healing frame such as Oberon? Healing to allow one to tank more damage? No, shield gating. What is the most important factor in dealing with incoming damage when using more tanky frames such as Wukong? Cloud Walker? Defy and the associated armour bonus? No, shield gating. What is the most important factor in dealing with incoming damage when using extremely tanky frames like Trinity or Nezha, or even Rhino or Revenant? Is it their innate tankiness via stats or DR, or even the more broken mechanics associated with Iron Skin or Mezmer Skin? Nope, shield gating. What is the most important factor in dealing with incoming damage when using a frame with invisibility? You guessed it - it is shield gating, again. All those other mechanics and survivability characteristics innate to various frames are secondary to shield gating, in that the frames can do without those unique survivability mechanics, but they cannot do without shield gating. One can argue there are nuanced differences with some frames due to their own invulnerability/survivability mechanics and I would agree, but at the end of the day those mechanics are not deciding factors and as a result, the vast majority of frames play very, very similarly, which in turn leads to diversity in play being far below what it can be, what it should be.

Let's say DE decides they really want to present an engaging endgame. An endgame that pushes players. In order to do that, the content they present needs to be able to pose a very real threat to players, but there is little threat experienced when players have access to effective immortality loops, of which shield gating is one (barring toxin damage). On top of that, the play will be very similar, to the extent that a player can pick Mesa, Khora, Saryn, Banshee, Vauban, Revenant or almost any other frame, run the EXACT same pathing and be successful. It is pretty stupid for a "glass cannon" to be able to use the exact same pathing and tank the exact same amount of damage as a "tank", because it means regardless of the frame chosen, play isn't very diverse.

The only way Warframe can have an engaging, diverse endgame, is for DE to render invulnerability mechanics moot and when a developer needs to render a mechanic moot in order to present more diversity, challenge and engagement, it is a clear sign the the mechanic is imbalanced and that the mechanic needs to be addressed.

[Joezone619]

On 2022-09-03 at 6:13 PM, cute_moth.npc said:

How would you like them to fix it?

Give it a dmg resistance stat like shield density or something.

If done correctly, the choice whether or not to use shields+density or health+armor would mostly come down to what damage types specifically your trying to resist.

[A5PECT]

1 hour ago, Joezone619 said:

Give it a dmg resistance stat like shield density or something.

If done correctly, the choice whether or not to use shields+density or health+armor would mostly come down to what damage types specifically your trying to resist.

Player warframes use unique shield, health, and armor types that have neutral resistance towards all damage types. So building health vs. shields isn't a question of countering damage types, except in the cases of toxin (bypasses shields) and true damage (bypasses armor).

I'm not a huge fan of making armor apply to shields, or giving shields its own armor stat with a different name. That would homogenize stat building and gameplay implications between shields and health.

I'd rather improve shielding in ways that keep the natures of it and health distinct, like simply increasing shield values, improving recharge rate, and/or recharge delay.

I'm a big fan of the "energy spent to shield conversion" concept via things like the augur mod set, but I feel its implementation doesn't gel with the way energy economy is set up.

As for shield gating, I'm fine with the idea and agree that it's a necessary mechanic to have to make shield-reliant frames viable. But reducing shields being the best way to optimize them feels ass-backwards to me and I don't like it. Make shield gate duration a function of shield capacity. That shouldn't hurt early game players that can't mod their shields yet, as their frames' default health values shoukd be a sufficient buffer for the amount of incoming damage they have to deal with

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

I don't see a problem with it. It requires active game play and attention by the player utilizing it. It's far from perfect immortality. Some forms of its usage require energy to restore shields quickly.

I see nothing broken here. "tanks one damage instance, no matter how strong but requires a full restoration of shield capacity to trigger again" (and they did give a short grace period to protect you from rapid-firing weaponry) isn't all that powerful on its own, even if you can reset the shield capacity quickly.

The interaction with the Dragon Key is still a handicap that has to be taken into consideration for gameplay, since you're really only protected from one hit at a time... in THIS game. A higher shield capacity would protect you from more smaller hits... which is what you run into in most missions. So this is really only useful for really high level content, and that is stressful content, especially when it's one-hit kills all over the place in endless survival type situations. I do not envy the people who choose this shield gating mechanic to be their source of protection.

 

[_LotusPrime_]

maybe making purple overshields that are higher than the number of 2700 (so that dragon key usage wouldnt apply here) would give a rhino's iron skin effect for that amount of shield you just build (but it wont work like rhino's initial i-frame period where you get to store damage and convert it to that skin) 

... so they get 2 shield gate instead of 1 time ,, which gives them enough room to spam abilities to fight back to gain 1 or 2 shiled gates back again , tho in practise i dont know how it would play out , as far as i know  current overshields(purple) give you damage status proc  negation but obviously thats not enough for high levels 

the fact that we have overguard eximus now implies frames like hildryn and harrow needs to do more with their current shields to counter units that cant be played around them not using their cc , (also maybe make it so that when harrow has purple overshields , he can get to keep his normal blue shields and not sacrifice them for the sake of not sacrifising his only shield gate but get all the supposed same buff number he would get by sacrifising al his shields  , that would be the reward for harrow to keep his purple shields up) 

 

[Rakosta_Kai]

6 hours ago, Silligoose said:

 

With respect, the bulk of what you just said is terribly speculative and predicated on the conceit that you know what balance should look like in the game.

Players mod the same way now that they did before shield gating became a thing. They may be dying less but those deaths were due to 1 hit KO's
Nobody wants to be 1 hit KO'd because it generally means that the enemy got a lucky shot off.
You wanting to see other players get 1 hit KO'd doesn't mean that players should have to experience that for your amusement— and it certainly has no bearing on balance.

The notion of enemies with high enough level or abilities to kill the player already exists... Players simply want a fair shot at not dying to them out of dumb luck.

Asserting that "the only way to do anything is the way you've described for balance" just feels sketchy especially given that this is trod ground for you at this point.. 

People paying attention will know that you've run this schtick on Adaptation, Rolling Guard, DR, Armor, and Shield gating numerous times in the past.
I seem to recall you saying, "...So what do we get instead of better balance? Band-aid solutions like Shield Gating, which causes it's own problems in terms of balance, seeing as how it can make frames effectively immortal in its current state."

At this point, I am of the impression that you simply don't get it...
Death does not equal Challenge in this game.
Completing the mission objective is the challenge— not death.

The simple fact of the matter is that I won't play your version of Warframe because I think your version will suck. When I want to play a Soul's game then I just go play one instead.

Moreover, your version already exists... All you have to do is remove some mods (which you, admittedly, don't do).
 

[Graavarg]

6 hours ago, Silligoose said:

The only way Warframe can have an engaging, diverse endgame, is for DE to render invulnerability mechanics moot and when a developer needs to render a mechanic moot in order to present more diversity, challenge and engagement, it is a clear sign the the mechanic is imbalanced and that the mechanic needs to be addressed.

Extremely well put! Thank you!

[Silligoose]

1 hour ago, Padre_Akais said:

With respect, the bulk of what you just said is terribly speculative and predicated on the conceit that you know what balance should look like in the game.

Players mod the same way now that they did before shield gating became a thing. They may be dying less but those deaths were due to 1 hit KO's
Nobody wants to be 1 hit KO'd because it generally means that the enemy got a lucky shot off.
You wanting to see other players get 1 hit KO'd doesn't mean that players should have to experience that for your amusement— and it certainly has no bearing on balance.

The notion of enemies with high enough level or abilities to kill the player already exists... Players simply want a fair shot at not dying to them out of dumb luck.

Asserting that "the only way to do anything is the way you've described for balance" just feels sketchy especially given that this is trod ground for you at this point.. 

People paying attention will know that you've run this schtick on Adaptation, Rolling Guard, DR, Armor, and Shield gating numerous times in the past.
I seem to recall you saying, "...So what do we get instead of better balance? Band-aid solutions like Shield Gating, which causes it's own problems in terms of balance, seeing as how it can make frames effectively immortal in its current state."

At this point, I am of the impression that you simply don't get it...
Death does not equal Challenge in this game.
Completing the mission objective is the challenge— not death.

The simple fact of the matter is that I won't play your version of Warframe because I think your version will suck. When I want to play a Soul's game then I just go play one instead.

Moreover, your version already exists... All you have to do is remove some mods (which you, admittedly, don't do).
 

The bulk of what I said is based on experience in running many, many missions with various frames and frame archetypes, making use of shield gating builds, including long endurance runs, and is backed by simple maths, so those who do not have the time, or are not yet at end-game levels of power regarding their builds, can understand why I make the claims I do: The maths will show that as long as one is able to press a button which activates an ability, which in turn allows for depleted shields to be fully restored, with an interval of less than 1.3 seconds every time shields are depleted, one will be immortal to all incoming damage that does not render shields moot. Application of this, shows it to be true and practical. It is that simple - I know different frames play every similarly, because I have done it.

Your assumption that I want players to be one-shot killed is borne from ignorance. In contrast, I prefer reactive playstyles being viable - that's why I actually enjoy shield gate builds, which I have stated before. Despite my enjoyment of it, I am not blind to the imbalances and problems this shortcut, this band-aid that is shield gating, leads to, which I've outlined and surprise surprise, just like in my thread, you run away from the actual discussion, with some added false assertions on your part in this thread.

I would love to see the game balanced properly, so that squishies do not get one-shot killed at the highest levels of play, but at the same time, it should not be possible for tanks to walk around with impunity under those conditions either. Under those conditions, even tanks should experience some threat, whilst retaining their value as tanks, by not having their tankiness relegated to only be on par with that of squishies, or worse. That means the discrepancy in relative durability between frames needs to be addressed. Once it is, the damage output from enemies can be balanced accordingly to achieve such a state of balance. That was the point of my "nerf adaptation" thread: Address the massive discrepancy in comparative durability between frames, so that tanks do not laugh at the damage that does one-shot kill squishies, which in turn allows DE to balance enemy damage output so that squishies do not get one-shot, whilst preventing tanks from becoming exceptional outliers in performance by barely being damaged by those same enemies. Like many, you were completely blind to the goal, because you couldn't look past "how" of achieving this. 

Shield-gating is a shortcut used to achieve a shadow of what I describe above. Since a symptom, instead of the root cause(s) of the symptom, was addressed via shield gating, other imbalances remain and due to the mechanics at work regarding shield gating, further imbalances result, again, as I've outlined in my previous reply.

You mistake confidence for conceit: I do know what balance should look like at high levels of play and I sure as hell know it should not entail squishies being able to tank as much, or more, than tanks, due to some global, overpowered band-aid mechanic. It should not entail globally available mechanics having to be rendered moot in general play in order for devs to present a challenge or diversity. It should not entail specific exceptional outliers in performance rendering the vast majority of other, formerly competitive choices, tools and mechanics, obsolete. Warframe having these things is indicative of poor balancing.

In contrast, a balanced game at high levels of play would build upon the foundational mechanics of the game, ensuring many of the mechanics available to players retain their value through to endgame. Beyond that, the game would increase in complexity as players progress, slowly necessitating the need for some mechanics  to be used both synergistically and with greater accuracy, in order to remain successful, with certain combinations being more suited for certain conditions, depending on the game and variety in mechanics. This allows for endgame play to retain depth and diversity, increasing replayability, whilst still rewarding the strategical-, tactical- and mechanic skill players picked up along the way.

This has nothing to do with Warframe becoming Dark Souls. That's tripe spewed by the desperate, as is the notion of self-nerfing being the solution. This is about DE taking the steps required to improve the lategame and endgame experience by balancing it properly - they've neglected doing so for far too long and have gravitated to band-aids far too easily, leading lategame/endgame having far less strategical- and tactical depth as compared to earlier stages of progression and far less than it should have. Doing so means starting to address root causes of symptoms and eliminating the need for band-aids. Ironically, looking at the hoops they are jumping through to "address" the AoE meta, they are again wasting time and resources doing the opposite, trying to think up more band-aids.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

On 2022-09-03 at 7:08 PM, m_a_r_c_h_ said:

Shield gating definitely does not suck. I know this community likes its nerfs and all, but how does it negatively affect your gameplay?

I wouldnt say it sucks. I dont think it negatively effects gameplay but i think the implementation could be better. 

Taking cover waiting for shields to recharge just isnt a thing like it would be in a game like halo but i think its odd that a frame with 5 base shield is functionally significantly harder for the enemies to kill than a frame with 500 base shield because of the way shield gating works. 

Idk if it really "needs" to be fixed and even if it does the best way to go about it but maybe something other than "okay heres your full shield gate regardless of how big or small your shield capacity is or if youre using a decaying dragon key".

On 2022-09-03 at 7:01 PM, xxvaderxxar said:

phe, Adaptation is simply not enough. Every frame that runs shield has to run adaptatin + subsuming either hildrin or harrow just to make them functional, that should throw all kinds of red flags.

Yes. Idk why everyone hear is acting like adaptation itself is a bandaid. 

1) you need enough shield/tankiness for adaptation to kick in and even matter and  no matter how good it is/isnt it still seems wonky that less shield = better. Youd think it should be the opposite.

On 2022-09-03 at 11:08 PM, Leqesai said:

No... You DON'T  HAVE to exploit dragon keys. That's actually not the intended purpose of shield gate mechanics. 

If you want to make your shields better, then make them better. Use Adaptation, ensure you have a way to refill shields manually (subsumes, augur set, brief respite, sentinels/companions etc.). 

The problem isn't shield gate... the problem is a whole bunch of people think they're better off exploiting dragon keys than playing the game without nonsense like that. 

This so much. There's been a number of whine-threads lately that read a lot like "Mom, I'm feeling really entitled today and I'm angry that the shop keeper wouldn't give me a candy bar for free. Don't they know I WANT IT!!?!?!?"

 

 

Games have rules. Learn the rules and adapt so you can win. 

I think decaying dragon key shouldnt work the way it does. Its clearly intended to make frames less, not more survivable. Having more shield shouldnt make you less, instead of more survivable. 

 

As for the analogy if the rules are silly or theres clearly some kind of issue i think it should be fixed. If we're gonna go with "thats just how the game is get used to it" i mean sure why fix/change anything at that point.

[Rakosta_Kai]

1 hour ago, Silligoose said:

which in turn allows for depleted shields to be fully restored, with an interval of less than 1.3 seconds every time shields are depleted

Congrats, you just cited the selling point of Shield Gating but left out Toxin damage or what happens when you get hit again after those 1.3 seconds if shields aren't fully restored.
Which incidentally takes 4 seconds...
Given that shield values vary and shield replenishment rates are constant everything you've said amounts to puffery in regard to what you've stated you know to begin with. 
 

1 hour ago, Silligoose said:

Your assumption that I want players to be one-shot killed is borne from ignorance. In contrast, I prefer reactive playstyles being viable - that's why I actually enjoy shield gate builds, which I have stated before.

I'd post where I got this from but I prefer not to resurrect incredibly myopic and thankfully dead posts...
This is a quote from you in December:
"Is it any wonder DE can't balance the game when mechanics such as these are in play? Nope, it is pretty obvious - it will always be hard to balance a game when some characters get oneshot while other characters barely notice the damage from that same shot.

So what do we get instead of better balance? Band-aid solutions like Shield Gating, which causes it's own problems in terms of balance, seeing as how it can make frames effectively immortal in its current state.

Time to nerf Adaptation. It's good, too good and quite frankly, game breaking. DE can go ahead and limit damage caps on other DR abilities to 50% - 60% while they are at it and throw Shield Gating and the imbalance it brings with it out the window.

Changes like these would help overall balance in the game, increase the value of other forms of defense, such as Evasion, increase the value of healing abilities and increase the value of synergistic abilities."

Put simply, I'm not assuming a lot as you are directly telling me instead. 
 

1 hour ago, Silligoose said:

which I've outlined and surprise surprise, just like in my thread, you run away from the actual discussion,

With respect, I haven't felt the need to run from anything relevant...
You announcing changes needed to X, Y, and Z "in the name of balance" asserts that you know what balance should look like... You don't.
If you actually knew what balanced looked like then you'd have DE_ in front of your name... You don't.
As such, your opinion isn't relevant.

Yet, you do use the word balance a total of 13 times on this page alone...
That, to me, sounds like you are selling something...

Who, in their right mind, should trust what you say when you lay everything at the feet of a concept that you clearly have no grasp of?

That isn't even touching on "Endgame" which is probably the single largest fairy tale in gaming to begin with.
Likewise, whatever the heck is supposed to constitute "Engaging" or "Diverse".

Your whole schtick makes me feel like you should have come with a Power-BI slide deck and online gift cards for Starbucks as rewards for paying attention...

[Rakosta_Kai]

35 minutes ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Taking cover waiting for shields to recharge just isnt a thing like it would be in a game like halo but i think its odd that a frame with 5 base shield is functionally significantly harder for the enemies to kill than a frame with 500 base shield because of the way shield gating works. 

This...

IMO, That dragon key should be retired or should simply not work in areas outside of the derelict itself.
Alternately, give lockpicking as a reward for hitting Mastery Rank X and make them no longer equip-able 

[(PSN)Unstar]

On 2022-09-03 at 4:41 PM, xxvaderxxar said:

The point is that to optimize Shield gating (which makes them better) you have to make them worst using the key. They need to fix this, they need to find another way to make shields functional other than using them to trigger windows of invulnerability.

This actually sounds like a good design though?  Do you want to optimize your shield for invulnerability, or do you want to optimize it to act as more of a long-term barrier?  The choice is yours, and both have different benefits and drawbacks.

With Adaptation and a way to regain shields (such as Protea's 1, Rakta Dark Dagger, etc), shields can provide a long-term barrier in much the same way as health does.

[Silligoose]

14 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Congrats, you just cited the selling point of Shield Gating but left out Toxin damage or what happens when you get hit again after those 1.3 seconds if shields aren't fully restored.
Which incidentally takes 4 seconds...

2 hours ago, Silligoose said:

which in turn allows for depleted shields to be fully restored, with an interval of less than 1.3 seconds every time shields are depleted, one will be immortal to all incoming damage that does not render shields moot.

You cutting off my quote and then trying to argue I left out Toxin damage is either extremely short-sighted, or extremely deceitful.

 

15 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Given that shield values vary and shield replenishment rates are constant everything you've said amounts to puffery in regard to what you've stated you know to begin with. 

Oh dear. Do you know how shield gate builds work? Shield gate builds allow for instant replenishment shields.

18 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

I'd post where I got this from but I prefer not to resurrect incredibly myopic and thankfully dead posts...
This is a quote from you in December:
"Is it any wonder DE can't balance the game when mechanics such as these are in play? Nope, it is pretty obvious - it will always be hard to balance a game when some characters get oneshot while other characters barely notice the damage from that same shot.

So what do we get instead of better balance? Band-aid solutions like Shield Gating, which causes it's own problems in terms of balance, seeing as how it can make frames effectively immortal in its current state.

Time to nerf Adaptation. It's good, too good and quite frankly, game breaking. DE can go ahead and limit damage caps on other DR abilities to 50% - 60% while they are at it and throw Shield Gating and the imbalance it brings with it out the window.

Changes like these would help overall balance in the game, increase the value of other forms of defense, such as Evasion, increase the value of healing abilities and increase the value of synergistic abilities."

Put simply, I'm not assuming a lot as you are directly telling me instead. 

Where exactly did I state I want players to get one-shot? What I stated is: " it will always be hard to balance a game when some characters get oneshot while other characters barely notice the damage from that same shot.".

You are not reading what I wrote. You are making up stories and attributing it to me, You can go read that thread again, or read the summary I gave in the previous reply, which, again, you run away from addressing, but in all honesty, if you make up stories like you did just now, I'm leaning to you being deceitful.

20 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

With respect, I haven't felt the need to run from anything relevant...
You announcing changes needed to X, Y, and Z "in the name of balance" asserts that you know what balance should look like... You don't.
If you actually knew what balanced looked like then you'd have DE_ in front of your name... You don't.
As such, your opinion isn't relevant.

Yet, you do use the word balance a total of 13 times on this page alone...
That, to me, sounds like you are selling something...

Who, in their right mind, should trust what you say when you lay everything at the feet of a concept that you clearly have no grasp of?

That isn't even touching on "Endgame" which is probably the single largest fairy tale in gaming to begin with.
Likewise, whatever the heck is supposed to constitute "Engaging" or "Diverse".

Your whole schtick makes me feel like you should have come with a Power-BI slide deck and online gift cards for Starbucks as rewards for paying attention...

Endgame in progression-style games refers to the content players engage with after beating the main story, which usually encompasses things like hidden/new dungeons, hidden/new endgame bosses that can only be encountered after completing the main story, new difficulty modes, new missions/dungeons etc.

Based on our conversations and especially this last message from you, it seems you do not know how shield gating builds work, why they work, or how they are applied in practical play and as a result, cannot fathom the implications of their mechanics.

You avoid points I make and deceitfully change my points based on... I don't even know. I honestly do not understand how someone can misinterpret the words you've quoted from my thread so poorly. 

Be that as it may, I will open a whole new world for you: Watch this video so you can understand how it works and pay attention to the footage on Saryn where I start the video from, specifically her shield values. I'd suggest watching the whole video so you can understand how shield gating builds work overall.

 

[Rakosta_Kai]

5 minutes ago, Silligoose said:

You cutting off my quote and then trying to argue I left out Toxin damage is either extremely short-sighted, or extremely deceitful.

"Renders shields Moot" is 3 word way of saying Toxin damage. I merely elected to cut through puffery instead...
You know what's actually deceitful? Asserting 1.3 seconds as a constant...
 

13 minutes ago, Silligoose said:

Oh dear. Do you know how shield gate builds work? Shield gate builds allow for instant replenishment shields.

I do indeed. And what you've conveniently left out is that what you are discussing as an absolute is, instead, a build alternative that is achieved through mods that the player has to elect to equip while forgoing other potential options in the process. Which is, incidentally, definitely in keeping with DE's penchant for balancing against conditions.

So, Why would I give credence to something I know everyone doesn't do?   For that matter, why are you...?

22 minutes ago, Silligoose said:

You are not reading what I wrote.

I read what you wrote. I also quoted it 😀
The simple fact of the matter is that by asking for the changes that you are then you clearly want players to have to deal with the potential of being one-shot. 
If you don't want people to have defensive options that keep them from being one shot...Then you want people to be one-shot. That, as scenarios go, is fairly binary.

Personally, I think it's for your own amusement, but that's because the only other explanation amounts to zealotry...
 

28 minutes ago, Silligoose said:

Endgame in progression-style games refers to the content players engage with after beating the main story, which usually encompasses things like hidden/new dungeons, hidden/new endgame bosses that can only be encountered after completing the main story, new difficulty modes, new missions/dungeons etc.

Yet, those things occur in games and people still ask for "Endgame".  You know why? Because they already completed it.
Endgame, put simply, doesn't exist.
You are welcome to hang your stocking and wait for it though...