When some people say the upgrade is fine.

[deucich]

3 часа назад, PollexMessier сказал:

Kuva Hind, Kuva Karak, and Kuva Quartak, Tenora Prime, Baza prime, Trumna, and Fulmin.
Trumna and tenora prime were actually missing Vigilante armaments in my tests, and trumna had one of the elemental mods at rank 0, due to me having never forma'd the weapons, and they still out preformed Soma prime.
All consistently killed lv190 heavy gunners in the simulacrum a full second faster than soma prime. Which is pretty substantial. Especially for the two that were under modded.
Tho I excluded alt fires from the test, Kuva Quartak's alt fire is shockingly powerful against single targets.
Honerable mention to shalta which preformed about the same as SomaP. But has an extremely powerful AoE alternate fire.

That's actually an intersting analysis for me since i pretty much never use any gun without a riven. Funny thing, in my tests (with a riven in play for each gun) soma prime showed better results than all others that you listed (except tenora prime, it wasn't in tests). The only assault rifle that toppled soma prime was buzlok with tenet flux rifle being on par. 

3 часа назад, PollexMessier сказал:

Soma prime has 1 thing above the rest of them. It has the highest crit damage stat, and tied a few of them for the highest crit chance. Which makes it theoretically better specifically against status resistant enemies. But that's a difficult theory to test.

It has 2 more things. Augment mod with up to 500% critical chance and higher riven disposition.

[-Krism-]

11 hours ago, Marvelous_A said:

Did you notice your empty exilus slot? And you have Roar but didn't use it probably.

SP is supposedly the elite missions. So play like an elite and use everything your arsenal has to offer.

Mind if I make an HD version? This one is great

 

EDIT: Welp, I made one

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

13 hours ago, ZhouYTMartin said:

I really try to finish a SP mission with a fully up grade SOMA PRIME, which was the best one of all assult rifle.

Here is the result, I out of the ammo after kill 64 enermies

The accuce is 72% and I caused 25 headshot, which means I did not waste ammo.

My build, an stander build for neally all knids of rifle, expect kuva.

In short, this upgrade did not solve rifle's problem at all.🙃

Nobody called it an upgrade. Its an update that changed some things. And something you're forgetting...Soma prime hasn't been the best choice in a long time, despite having an augment. Use melee, and use your secondary, you are not a helpless child. Whatever point you're trying to make is not obvious. It just looks like another post complaining about the ammo changes with no real substance.

[PollexMessier]

46 minutes ago, deucich said:

That's actually an intersting analysis for me since i pretty much never use any gun without a riven. Funny thing, in my tests (with a riven in play for each gun) soma prime showed better results than all others that you listed (except tenora prime, it wasn't in tests). The only assault rifle that toppled soma prime was buzlok with tenet flux rifle being on par. 

It has 2 more things. Augment mod with up to 500% critical chance and higher riven disposition.

Ah that augment could change things yeah. Forget weapons have augments sometimes. looks excruciatingly annoying to use tho.

Rivens are a terrible metric to include in weapon comparisons due to the extreme rng and/or cost sink involved with them. I can't imagine going through the game only playing weapons with rivens. That sounds like pure hell. Just thinking about those things gives me a headache. I prefer to interact with them as little as possible.

That said. The two prime weapons I mentioned have a riven disposition that's only 0.1 less than Soma P, and all 3 kuva weapons are 0.05 less which is a pretty negligible difference. Not enough to make up for the gap in power between them. Especially if you account for K Quartak's alt fire, it's seriously a monster. I didn't bother testing Tenora P's alt fire so not sure how it compares.

[deucich]

33 минуты назад, PollexMessier сказал:

looks excruciatingly annoying to use tho.

With multishot and punch through that augment is not at all annoying to use, it stacks very fast. Though on exterminate mission without using grouping abilities you can find a better use for a mod slot.

33 минуты назад, PollexMessier сказал:

Rivens are a terrible metric to include in weapon comparisons due to the extreme rng and/or cost sink involved with them. I can't imagine going through the game only playing weapons with rivens. That sounds like pure hell. Just thinking about those things gives me a headache. I prefer to interact with them as little as possible.

Kuva is the only resource in the game with a limitless need for it. And the only thing to farm on steel path\arbitration (in a long run, once you get everything else). Without setting a riven collection the game would end for me thousands of hours ago with nothing to achieve in it. So, I can't imagine playing without rivens. To me, 180 cap is the only hell about it.

33 минуты назад, PollexMessier сказал:

That said. The two prime weapons I mentioned have a riven disposition that's only 0.1 less than Soma P, and all 3 kuva weapons are 0.05 less which is a pretty negligible difference. Not enough to make up for the gap in power between them.

Yes, such test results that I have are mostly due to augment mod and arguably somewhat better rng with a riven, difference in disposition is not enough for meaningful impact.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

11 hours ago, Skoomaseller said:

remove serration for galvanized scope.

unfortunately soma prime has fallen so far behind due to its low base damage.

rifles in general really need something other than increased headshot multiplier to actually be useful. a lot of them have IPS but Puncture and Impact are useless. bandaids like hunter munitions and internal bleeding don't actually solve the problem. shame that DE doesn't understand that.

Armor can be stripped, and vulnerabilities to damage can be applied via warframe abilities. Shame that players don't understand that.

[Skoomaseller]

5 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Armor can be stripped, and vulnerabilities to damage can be applied via warframe abilities. Shame that players don't understand that.

not the point I was making, but what else do I expect from you other than for you to miss the point as always

[SneakyErvin]

The gun hasnt aged well to begin with, you also have an empty exilus slot, why are you not using ammo mutation?

[Skoomaseller]

11 hours ago, Josh486 said:

I have never understood how bad the forums are at building weapons until now

i forgot that he was running HM so maybe g scope & deadhead isn't ideal. that's my bad. probably my brain autopiloting what mods to put in, since my build for soma p uses both deadhead & g scope.

edited my comment to show i was looking more thoroughly this time.

[Tiltskillet]

6 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

Build was: Serration, Split chamber, Point strike, Vital sense, Hunter munitions, Rime rounds, Malignant force, Vigilante armaments. Low cost general hybrid build with no conditional buffs or timers for the sake of testing consistency. Not what I'd recommend as an actual late game build.

Kuva Hind, Kuva Karak, and Kuva Quartak, Tenora Prime, Baza prime, Trumna, and Fulmin.

I'd be really curious to see the exact results.  And know more details, like if you were comparing headshots and at what distance, and if you killed more than one CHG for each test

I really want to see which ones didn't beat the Soma P and how far off they were.  There are several I'm surprised aren't on your list.

[Tiltskillet]

2 hours ago, deucich said:

Funny thing, in my tests (with a riven in play for each gun) soma prime showed better results than all others that you listed (except tenora prime, it wasn't in tests). The only assault rifle that toppled soma prime was buzlok with tenet flux rifle being on par. 

Rivens add so much randomness to a test like this though.  I'd be curious to know more details about your testing anyway.  What's your Soma riven?

Buzlok is kind of a beast.   Although a lot of the reason (besides monster dispo with a riven) is Galvanized Aptitude is multiplicative on it.  If you were running the test with stacks, it would have a very significant effect.

[cute_moth.npc]

Is this Adaro? I was trying my Furis last night to get it working properly again and I actually practiced on that map. 

4/5 runs were fine with just Ammo Mutation. There definitely was one where I ran out, overall the game is giving enough ammunition but because it's sort of RNG and Furis holds so little reserve ammo it just takes like 8-10 kills without a drop on a weapon like that to run out. 

I think they could stand to increase reserve ammo on automatic single target weaponry by a bit personally, there's stuff like maximum ammo mods but I don't feel like these weapons should make further compromises like that when most of the AoE guns don't have to -_-

[(PSN)ApoX95]

First off, it's a good idea to make full use of your loadout and not just be dependend on solely one weapon.

Second Thing is I think its funny that you complain about ammo but you literally still have a free exilus slot which COULD slot an ammo mutation. This + sometimes switching to secondary (as a primer maybe) or meele, killing some enemies with operator amp and/or frame abilities and you should have no ammo issues whatsoever.

Since the new update dropped I also had no ammo issues despite literally mostly doing SP fissures currently - after a short period of time the map's still full with ammo drops and Energy orbs

 

Oh and edit: the primary I currently use even is the Kuva Kohm and the Kohm/Khomak weapons always burned through ammo really fast XD

[deucich]

20 минут назад, Tiltskillet сказал:

Rivens add so much randomness to a test like this though.  I'd be curious to know more details about your testing anyway.  What's your Soma riven?

Buzlok is kind of a beast.   Although a lot of the reason (besides monster dispo with a riven) is Galvanized Aptitude is multiplicative on it.  If you were running the test with stacks, it would have a very significant effect.

Yes, buzlok is so good more in thanks to galvanized aptitude than to insane riven disposition. But aeolak and tenet tetra has the same multiplicative effect, yet weaker at the end of the day.

Test goes like this: first stack up merciless\deadhed and galvanized mods, reload. Then spawn 10 gokstad officers (ferrite armor, a lot more durable than heavy gunners) and 10 manic bombards (alloy armor, 5x times healthier than regular bombards). All that left is to measure time to kill those 20. Buzlok takes ~22 seconds (without marking targets by beacon and with the least suitable riven for viral+slash build), soma prime and tenet flux rifle took ~27 seconds, other previously mentioned rifles took from 30 to 50 seconds. Without alloy armor guys in a test corrosive can outperform viral+slash for some guns.

Soma riven is +CD+toxin-slash.

[Tiltskillet]

8 minutes ago, (PSN)ApoX95 said:

Oh and edit: the primary I currently use even is the Kuva Kohm and the Kohm/Khomak weapons always burned through ammo really fast XD

How would you say it feels now compared to before?  Did you change your build or are you playing any differently?

Twin Kohmak are my most used sidearm--they definitely feel more of an ammo pinch than before.  I haven't changed my builds at all, but I am meleeing more often.  (Mixing in some melee was never unusual for me though.)

[0_The_F00l]

Now just to put my money where my mouth is , i tend to take these "i couldn't do it myself , so its a problem with the changes" with some distaste.

A couple of things to note here before we proceed,

1) Soma (P) is not the ideal AR , its a bullet hose with relatively low ammo efficiency (though its not bad) and is one of the weapons that is actually not that advantaged because of the changes,

2) Inaros is not the ideal exterminate frame , he can survive but will rarely dish out a lot of damage by himself or buff any weapons,

3) SP is not the place for weak loadouts or weak players , you need to have some common sense at the bare minimum and some semblance of skill as an expectation, and a backup ready when S#&$ hits the fan (did you know operators have quite a bit of utility that will make things much easier?).

4) not using any secondary or melee weapons just shows that the player missed the point of the changes (which was to encourage weapon swapping once in a while).

 

Now thats out of the way lets try to meet this challenge,

unfortunately i dont have a soma , and i dont want to bother building one again , i do however have a Soma P. so i went in fully expecting to need a few ammo pizzas or depending on my melee , but to make things fair , my loadout may not be what you expect.

So in conclusion , its totally possible to do SP exterminate using ARs , it is significantly more challenging though and can still be managed relatively easily.

Now if i go for a "Good" build using an actual "decent" loadout , the results are different but predictable. I didnt "need" my melee but i used it for the finishers. and had more than enough bullets to take out an acolyte that came by.

I made both these runs to show the difference between "managing" and "succeeding" when it comes to ammo use for the same weapon and there is a noticeable difference purely cause i used a better loadout.

Note that i have none of the ammo mutation or pickup scavenger bonuses and i could still manage very well (weapons with poor ammo economy should have it if you plan to rely on it exclusively) ,

This is not even my preferred playstyle , i like to mix and match my different weapons and feel the flow and i rarely use inaros. I do not expect to run out of ammo for any precision weapons in my standard gameplay.

[Tiltskillet]

2 minutes ago, deucich said:

Yes, buzlok is so good more in thanks to galvanized aptitude than to insane riven disposition. But aeolak and tenet tetra has the same multiplicative effect, yet weaker at the end of the day.

Test goes like this: first stack up merciless\deadhed and galvanized mods, reload. Then spawn 10 gokstad officers (ferrite armor, a lot more durable than heavy gunners) and 10 manic bombards (alloy armor, 5x times healthier than regular bombards). All that left is to measure time to kill those 20. Buzlok takes ~22 seconds (without marking targets by beacon and with the least suitable riven for viral+slash build), soma prime and tenet flux rifle took ~27 seconds, other previously mentioned rifles took from 30 to 50 seconds. Without alloy armor guys in a test corrosive can outperform viral+slash for some guns.

That's a very good test, riven randomness aside.

I don't have the TTetra, but I'm surprised the Aeolak did so much worse.  What was its dispo when you tested it?  What does its riven and the Buzlok riven look like?

[deucich]

1 минуту назад, Tiltskillet сказал:

I'm surprised the Aeolak did so much worse.

Not much worse, it took 29 seconds.

2 минуты назад, Tiltskillet сказал:

What was its dispo when you tested it? 

I rerun all test after this update to look at ammo and adjust builds accordingly, so dispo is up to date which is 0.85. When aeolak was released it actually had 1.15 dispo despite showing 1 dot out of 5.

5 минут назад, Tiltskillet сказал:

What does its riven and the Buzlok riven look like?

Aeolak riven gives viral in one mod (i don't remember negative atm). Buzlok riven is damage+multishot+electricity, for radiation against bosses or corrosive (buzlok has enough damage for a smooth use without hunter munitions)

 

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

3 hours ago, -Krism- said:

Mind if I make an HD version? This one is great

 

EDIT: Welp, I made one

 

[-Krism-]

19 minutes ago, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

 

[Danielw8]

i do that mission 2 mins with kuva bramma saryn and carrier prime

aoe will be allways the best in warframe because too many enemies for a simple mission

[elmetnuter]

Just use the Truman if you like assault rifles. The Soma is not what is used to be.

Truman goes Brrrrr and Boom. Best of both worlds.

[(PSN)Zero_029]

16 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

No. The purpose of the update was to promote the use of your full arsenal, which is a fantastic idea!I have not run into ammo issues yet because I utilize my full arsenal during gameplay. Whichever weapon is being used at the time, the opposites ammo gets dropped. In fact, my phase secondary kitgun burns through ammo but, with these new changes, I've not run into this issue. Each drop supplies more ammo so, with a quick switch to my Sobek, I picked up one second dairy ammo drop and was nearly ammo full again. It took seconds.

This in a nutshell.

I've honestly yet to run out of Ammo on anything except my Archon Boreal on my first attempt (learning the fight). 

One of my favorite weapons are the Tiberon, Fulmin, and Quartakk/Kuva Quartakk. Had no ammo issues.

Admittedly, the change has prompted me to take an extra millisecond to "aim" more precisely. (I swear the head crack sfx from a headshot gives me ASMR tingles so I'm loving the update) 

But even then, worse case scenario, I might finally dust off the old ammo pizza or equip Vigilante Supplies (Literally all Ammo mutations in 1 mod)

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

2 hours ago, Skoomaseller said:

not the point I was making, but what else do I expect from you other than for you to miss the point as always

Your point was wrong. If you want to make an assault rifle OP then build for it. All the tools are there. They even released a slew of new tools to make it even easier than before. 

 

[Skoomaseller]

6 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Your point was wrong. If you want to make an assault rifle OP then build for it. All the tools are there. They even released a slew of new tools to make it even easier than before. 

 

"your point was wrong" proceeds to miss point again

No. I'm not going to bother explaining this one.