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Remove Rolling Guard in favor of dodge roll invincibility


Horosha

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Another odd suggestion from me. Could we possibly just drop Rolling Guard and have .1 seconds (or so) of invincibility frames during our dodge roll? I know that dodge already has a 75% damage reduction but I think this change could possibly make more warframes survivable and allow more builds to possibly flourish.

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1 hour ago, Horosha said:

...invincibility frames during our dodge roll ... could possibly make more warframes survivable

Not really...

Rolling Guard works because the player has invulnerability time while active. They're able to take a breather to do things like cast abilities to replenish shields and CC, or fire weapons to clear crowds for more space. Basically, they can do things to keep from keeling over.

If you're only invulnerable during the roll itself, you lack the opportunity to change the situation. You might survive for a fraction of a second longer, but all the enemies and hazards that made you do that "emergency roll" in the first place are still there, guns trained, waiting for you to stand up so they can take off your head. You're not surviving, you're prolonging the inevitable.

There might be rare, very niche situations where you can roll behind cover and not be flanked by the horde of enemies typically present in the game. But when the cases where full invulnerability would make a difference over 75% DR (like Steel Path) often coincide with increased enemy numbers...let's just say you may have better odds winning a lottery or twelve.

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Not bad, but maybe we should remove Rolling Guard and instead of .1 seconds of iframes, like you propose, instead, when you roll, your Warframe just dies. Like they forward roll, but head first and they accidentally put all their weight on their neck, and it snaps, and they straight up just die. No revives, no Last Gasp, no nothing. Return to orbiter. You done. Go home. Strike. 

I think this change would force players to Acquire Adequate, Obtain Okay, Earn Excellence, Achieve Accomplishment, Secure Superb, Get Good etc allow parity across Warframes. No more rolling. We don't do that here. 

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I would wait until you've had a chance to farm up the Archon Shards in a few weeks.

Why?

Because in a couple of situations, like the Duration, Range and Casting Speed stats, you will be able to drop a different mod on your build, keep Rolling Guard, and get better diversity out of your chosen build.

For example, a Tauforged Amber shard will give you 37.5% Casting Speed, which could be enough to drop your Natural Talent for (even though it's less speed). Or managing to get lucky with two Tauforged Crimson could give you 30% Duration, allowing you to drop Constitution.

Personally, the latter is the route I'm going with my Zephyr build, I'm dropping a Duration mod when I can in order to pick up something more interesting to play with, maybe a second Augment, or something silly like Motus Signal. Depends ^^

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i-frames work in other games because they design enemy attacks to have wind-ups and recovery periods. If you keep dodging an enemy's attacks, eventually you'll arrive at an gap or opening in the enemy's actions that you can exploit.

Warframe doesn't have any of that for most of its combat. A squad of grineer will instantenously begin firing on the player once they're alerted, so there's no wind up that allows the player to anticipate and react, or act preemptively. The enemy's attacks are effectively continuous: an individual grineer lancer may need to reload after awhile, but a dozen lancers will never sync up their reloads to create an opening for the player.

This is where the game gets it's reputation as a less-than-interactive horde shooter: there's very little in the way of tactics or moment-to-moment gameplay at high levels. It's just a neverending stream of incoming damage the player has to survive, and the best way to survive is to cut off the source of thay damage, i.e. kill everything the moment it appears

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6 hours ago, (XBOX)CaligulaTwily said:

Maybe a *new mod* that's like, .3 seconds invulnerability with like 1 second cooldown (it's still equivalent to 3 seconds invulnerability with 10 cooldown)

For the Darksouls fans

Rework archon fights to be melee only. 

Add invulnerability during rolls. 

Force enemy stagger for the boss fight when the archon hits you. 

Make archon vulnerable to parrying. 

Perfect.

 

 

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8 hours ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

 

I think this change would force players to Acquire Adequate, Obtain Okay, Earn Excellence, Achieve Accomplishment, Secure Superb, Get Good etc allow parity across Warframes. No more rolling. We don't do that here. 

Oh, BJ camp here? You guys have too much fun with longer bullet jumps. I want shorter rolls.

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12 часов назад, (XBOX)CaligulaTwily сказал:

Maybe a *new mod* that's like, .3 seconds invulnerability with like 1 second cooldown (it's still equivalent to 3 seconds invulnerability with 10 cooldown)

For the Darksouls fans

That would be quite cool.  Soul guard. 

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What I read from first post:

I like rolling guard, but I don't want to pay the slot cost.  Give it to every frame so I can get more power creep.

 

How is this more diversity? Now you can choose to use it.. or not.

The same tired argument has been made for years with serration, pressure point etx.etc.. I want it on all my builds but want something else too.

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On 2022-09-18 at 4:38 AM, Horosha said:

Another odd suggestion from me. Could we possibly just drop Rolling Guard and have .1 seconds (or so) of invincibility frames during our dodge roll? I know that dodge already has a 75% damage reduction but I think this change could possibly make more warframes survivable and allow more builds to possibly flourish.

No thank you.

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  • 2 months later...

I don't think these "Souls" players understand the horrors of having the Stamina bar back. They should be thankful we have infinite rolls that already hae a 75% damage reduction during the animation. 

I always find it funny to see a player in other games spamming dodge roll to get away from damage. I can clearly see where s/he got that habit.

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