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Warframe speculation: Joe mad's werewolf

(XBOX)Nightseid

By (XBOX)Nightseid,
in General Discussion

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_Anise_

_Anise_

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, CypressEDF said:

So to me, when a game like warframe creates characters based on a well known theme, I have the expectation they honor the details of that theme.

 this rubs me the wrong way, ofc they are going to honour the theme perfectly just how they want, what you mean here is you want them to honour your expectations of what you think the theme should be? 

like if they have a vampire frame they aren't going to make standing in sunlight burst it into flames, no sleeping in a coffin nor are they going to allow it's bites to make other players/enemies vampires, they probably won't let it bite onto an enemies neck to suck their blood, no weakness to garlic, crosses or wooden stakes, holywater ... so at want point to you say they are going "off theme" if they made a vampire frame?

the only expectations I have is that the frame is fun to play and that it doesn't get nerfed a day after release because people found a fun thing that DE does not like.

personally I am super happy they aren't going yet another boring / cliche exalted claws transform/enrage melee, we already have those and people are more than welcome to play them and with claws equipped in the melee slot if they like!

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(XBOX)Rez090

(XBOX)Rez090

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, CypressEDF said:

Revenant has themes of vampirism, however Garuda fits the bill better, she literally consumes the blood of her enemies to give her strength.

Garuda is a blood mage. She manipulates blood to gain power, she doesn't consume it to gain strength.

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Marvelous_A

Marvelous_A

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, (XBOX)UndeadNidhogg said:

Someone has a werewolf obsession, and therefore isn't gonna be happy no matter what DE does here because "I know werewolves best, not YOU DE. See all MY werewolf posters and MY werewolf pajamas!? My mommy bought me these and your werewolf doesn't look like that so I'm not happy."

It doesn't take a werewolf enthusiast to tell this warframe probably doesn't do what a werewolf would do.

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Leqesai

Leqesai

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, CypressEDF said:

You made a statement, "it makes more sense for the frame to be wolf themed than werewolf themed," yet give no reasons why...I'm not sure what to even say other than I disagree, we little have a fairy themed frame, how is a werewolf out of place?

That's a good point, regarding titania. I just feel like making it "wolf" instead of "werewolf" opens more doors for abilities. Werewolves are cool but they are pretty simple, all things considered.

Generic "wolf" theme opens up the doors to animal totem stuff, norse stuff, shamanic stuff etc. 

What do werewolves do? Howl and maul stuff? I don't know of much material where werewolves do more than that.

 

Also, we haven't seen her abilities yet nor have we gotten to play with her. I will reserve judgment until I have something to judge rather than complaining about the design (which looks cool imo).

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Loza03

Loza03

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, CypressEDF said:

Most of what you detailed agrees with what I mentioned, my diction could have been improved, but the idea that werewolves aren't explicitly evil or out of control wasn't mentioned in my post, but in many examples of Norse mythology, the ability to call upon a wolf spirit or turn into a wolf becomes too tempting to do evil with or lose control of its power.  The ultimate factor that makes a werewolf is the physical manifestation of someone's inner beast through transformation.  A shaman who uses wolf spirits is just that, a shaman.  Without transformation in some fashion, the person involved is only using a wolf spirit, not letting out their inner beast.  Furthermore this is often reinforced as a good thing in warriors...in a story where a man removes his enchanted clothes to become a wolf, he is an honorable warrior described as protecting those he loved and honored with ferocity, when his wife steals his clothes to get married to her affair he's stuck as a wolf and becomes the companion to the key, upon the werewolf seeing his wife again he attacks her and most likely would have killed her had the king not intervened to get the full story and restore the wolfs humanity.  The werewolf is good, but ferocious and rageful.

The concept of an 'inner beast' is also really new. In most of these original mythologies, when Lycanthropy is a curse, it's an external force. A punishment from Zeus, or the influence of either God or Satan. In some cases, they outright wear the skin of the wolf (which, amusingly, suggests an 'inner human').  And the wolf-spirit werewolves are werewolves, and are even referred to as such by their contemporaries. Retroactively calling them 'Shamans' because they don't physically transform is historical (mythological?) revisionism. Please don't do that - we have tenuous links to our collective cultural history already.

And for reference in the story of the werewolf who serves the king... flying into a violent rage and trying to kill the person who ruined your entire life is a pretty common reaction, at least in myth. And in some versions of the myth, he also just attacks them nonlethally to get them to confess the truth which falls under 'about as much as a nonverbal dog can do in that situation'. And by comparison, there is a story of a werewolf coming up and politly asking a priest to give his mate/wife her last rites before she dies, which is about as far from a ferocious inner beast as you can get.

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Leqesai

Leqesai

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, CypressEDF said:

ivara still has a heavy poison frog theme with how she can blend in and afflict enemies with different "poisons" if you will.

Uh what?

What about ivaras kit even remotely resembles poisoning anything.

She is a jellyfish archer not a poisonous frog...

 

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AegidiusF

AegidiusF

Posted
Posted
Il y a 11 heures, CypressEDF a dit :

Yet when werewolf fans said we wanted a werewolf, we meant it, not a wolf spirit Shaman as they are now calling her.  Should we just hope for the next frame after her to be a true werewolf, give DE feedback now to change it all or something else?  I mean talking Sevagoth and Ivara, Sevagoth is pretty much what I would expect from a wraith nearly spot on and ivara still has a heavy poison frog theme with how she can blend in and afflict enemies with different "poisons" if you will.  Yet a wolf spirit Shaman doesn't embody the release of an inner beast.  So should I just take the loss of one if my favorite themes or should I wait for the next fanframe to be Fenrir or something...

I understand your point. Ivara lost all poison damage, but, as you said, kept the tree frog skin (replaced by a Medusa skin on her Prive version).

Many on the community asked (and some still asks) for a spider frame, and we got Khora... People that were not there before Devstream 100 and that don't have all Khora's inspirations were surprised when they saw her spider abdomen Prime helmet and her spider web Prime decorations.

I don't think "feedback before release" will change something on a frame's development : they've made a decision and the work will continue on its normal way. It can be frustrating for many players, but I don't think there is much you can do now.

But I really understand you and your problem with the changes.

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Raarsi

Raarsi

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, CypressEDF said:

But it isn't MY definition of a werewolf in nearly all werewolf mythology in history, a werewolf is the physical manifestation of someone's inner beast through transformation however subtle or overt.

Might want to brush up on werewolves then, since it was never until pop culture that werewolves gained any sort of Hulk-like perception.  Historically, it was always seen as some sort of religious affliction, hence it being linked to the word "lycanthropy".

So yes, it is indeed your description of what a werewolf is supposed to be.

4 hours ago, CypressEDF said:

DE made it clear the new frame is a wolf spirit Shaman, not a werewolf.

At what point did DE ever use the word "shaman"?  "Wolf" they've used, but I don't remember them using "shaman" as a descriptor, although it does fall in line with the closest correlation of berserkers: Vikings rocking sarks ("shirts") made out of bearskin that they believed to have bestowed them with the power of a bear.

If anything, that to me sounds far more interesting that just someone hulking out once a month.

4 hours ago, CypressEDF said:

Also the notion a werewolf would just be sevagoth or valkyr copy paste is so uncreative, there are so many ways to make a melee character engaging than just a single button hack and slash, the Spiderman, hero, and hulk games have proved that.

What is any transformation when translated into the mechanics of Warframe?  It's just a single button.  One button turns Sevagoth into his Shadow, Equinox into their other half, Xaku into a spooky scary skeleton, Valkyr into an angry ball of razorblades, Titania into a tiny streak of death, Baruuk into a badass, and so on and so forth.  Some might not seem like transformations, but all they are mechanically are just self-targeting abilities that result in changing of playstyle.  Any possible comparison to Sevagoth or Valkyr is from the result of seeing a frame with an anticipated theme attributed to transformation and expecting a similar mechanical outcome.

While I do agree that melee character can be more engaging, unfortunately this is Warframe and not any of those other games you mentioned.  Also, how could know this new frame will be melee-only?  Even the bulkiest frames have something for range.

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SneakyErvin

SneakyErvin

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, Skaleek said:

All in the eye of the beholder. I can get on board with idea of enthrall being vampire-esque, since thralls are a vampire staple. I think arguing his 3 is vampire-like is stretching, just my opinion.

Reave is the WF version of mistform, which predates the whole fangs to leech idea of vampires. Enthall is well yeah enthrall, not much more to it than that. Mesmer Skin also plays on that same vampire aspect, mesmerization to pacify your prey/enemy/target/snack or whatever you want to call it or simply make people not see your beast and get hostile.

Heck, the synergy between enthrall and reave is also perfect, even though I doubt they thought of it. Since getting more out of your thralls with leeching is also often a staple in vampiric lore, except they dont tend to kill them straight of, instead they use them over a long time as a food dispenser.

16 minutes ago, Mediloric said:

Really? Where does it say that? I couldn't find anything in the Devstream about it.

It would be a very odd quick twist aswell since it wasnt that long ago the survey took place that asked if we wanted a werewolf frame.

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Mediloric

Mediloric

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

It would be a very odd quick twist aswell since it wasnt that long ago the survey took place that asked if we wanted a werewolf frame.

I'm expecting a bit of bending as DE likes to put their own spin on things, for better or worse. 

If it is a Shaman like frame, bit of a odd setup for it though. 

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SneakyErvin

SneakyErvin

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Mediloric said:

I'm expecting a bit of bending as DE likes to put their own spin on things, for better or worse. 

If it is a Shaman like frame, bit of a odd setup for it though. 

Yep, the most shamanistic part of it is how it looks, and that is purely because it looks like one of the vanilla WoW Shaman armor sets.

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(XBOX)maledicus GER

(XBOX)maledicus GER

Posted
Posted

When i first heard about the plans for a werwolf frame i was hyped but i see a great disappointment coming for me with DEs plans and it begins with the new werwolf frame being female. The concept of anzuarden_art really looks fantastic and is what i've personally awaited to see when DE shows a concept, i was wrong. 

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(PSN)Pablogamer585

(PSN)Pablogamer585

Posted
Posted

Overly feministic (I guess you mean feminine?) qualities on female frames... I guess you're talking about frames such as:
Trinity, Mag, Banshee, Zephyr, Mesa, Equinox, Titania, Octavia, Hyldrin, Protea, Gyre

Or maybe you're only referring to:
Ember, Nyx, Saryn, Nova, Valkyr, Mirage, Ivara, Gara, Khora, Garuda, Wisp, Yareli

Something makes me guess you are referring to the later ones, so let me ask, what's the problem with refined, curvy and slim body figures on half of the female frames?
You've got a bunch that aren't quite, even some Deluxe skins can make them be not as much for a couple of the curvier options if you prefer.

Maybe those suit better your likings, but personally what I care when playing a frame is if it's fun to play, not that much their looks, for normally cosmetics can fix that.
The new [PH]Wolframe to me looks amazing, it has a very metal design and I dig that a lot, can't wait to see what Wolf Mommy's name is and her abilities.

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