Limbo needs massive buffs (no seriously).

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

Limbo is a frame that while interesting, has fallen prey to becoming obscure with time. 

His once all-powerful kit has now become diminished into a shadow of it's former self, with defense missions being his only real niche. 

Need examples?

Old Limbo was untouchable. Now eximus enemies can easily kill him. 

Old Limbo could freeze anything in his path. Now Limbo is desperately fighting for control of his own domain. 

Old Limbo could easily build up big damage. Now he has to make sure he doesn't accidentally kill himself with an eximus.

And the worst of them all, other frames have become as powerful as old Limbo, with none of the setbacks: Revenant is immortal while killing anything in his path, Wisp can cc and tank without effort, including eximus, Rhino can damage buff, cc, and tank, and Gauss almost has full immortality along with speed, cc, armor strip, energy regeneration, attack speed buffs, shield gate buffs, and high damage (in essence, he is Limbo but much faster and with more buffs).

And unlike Limbo, these frames can use helminth without crippling their kit, allowing them to completely cover all bases of old Limbo's kit without any limitations. 

 

 

 

So yes, Limbo needs a buff, and I hope he gets one soon.

 

[sunderthefirmament]

2 minutes ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

Limbo needs a buff

I would rather see a full-blown rework for him.  There are plenty of ways to preserve his theme of "void wizard" while removing the disruptive aspects of his old kit.  The "shifting dimensions" that we currently have amounts to little more than conditional invulnerability and an extra layer of nonsense before harming an enemy.  It's not engaging or interesting, and, like you stated, it's no longer relevant.  Update after update has slowly chipped away at Limbo's relevance.

 

Limbo deserves to be reborn with an entirely new kit.  Give him teleports, CC, debuffs, and utility.  Maybe even a nuke (though I don't think DE remembers how to design a damaging power that scales well).  Preserve the aesthetics if you absolutely must, but none of his gameplay mechanics are currently worth salvaging.  They're too clunky and disruptive, and too feast or famine to ever be balanced.

[(PSN)FunyFlyBoy]

All I read in this is that "I was threatened by NOTHING before, and now ONE unit type threatens me, so I need buffs to compensate."

Change, adapt, or die.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

30 minutes ago, (PSN)FunyFlyBoy said:

All I read in this is that "I was threatened by NOTHING before, and now ONE unit type threatens me, so I need buffs to compensate."

Change, adapt, or die.

You didn't see the part where other frames can "be" limbo without the clunkiness, danger, or removal of all weapon damage?

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

10 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

I would rather see a full-blown rework for him.  There are plenty of ways to preserve his theme of "void wizard" while removing the disruptive aspects of his old kit.  The "shifting dimensions" that we currently have amounts to little more than conditional invulnerability and an extra layer of nonsense before harming an enemy.  It's not engaging or interesting, and, like you stated, it's no longer relevant.  Update after update has slowly chipped away at Limbo's relevance.

 

Limbo deserves to be reborn with an entirely new kit.  Give him teleports, CC, debuffs, and utility.  Maybe even a nuke (though I don't think DE remembers how to design a damaging power that scales well).  Preserve the aesthetics if you absolutely must, but none of his gameplay mechanics are currently worth salvaging.  They're too clunky and disruptive, and too feast or famine to ever be balanced.

I wouldn't mind a rework, assuming it would be limbo but faster and more utility. 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, you're definitely right about losing relevance: 

Limbo can't use helminth without sacrificing something major on his kit, meanwhile, helminth gives AoE cc to every frame. 

Limbo is now vulnerable to eximus, as they are no longer cc and can be hurt by a rift. What's stopping me from using Gauss if now both of them are mostly immortal but can die to a toxin eximus? What's stopping me from using breach surge on Revenant to stay immortal while cc'ing eximus enemies (who unlike limbo, I can attack while being damage immune)?

[Loza03]

Limbo, in his current form, cannot be buffed, precisely for the reasons given.

 

Limbo was always a problematic frame from a balance perspective, it was just that a combination of him having a significant other aspect that was more important to address and that other frames were more obviously unbalanced that kept him under the radar.

I agree with @sunderthefirmament- Limbo could do with a rework. I personally love the 'slip in and out of the rift', and that could be maintained, but there are certainly other ways you could use the rift. For example, lean into the guerilla 'jump in jump out', and make Limbo more mobility focused, or switch him to support. Or sure you do more conventional things, but Limbo as a frame has rarely directly affected enemies, which works well with the fact he's a stage magician, an illusionist, who manipulates the environment rather than having direct magic.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

37 minutes ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

Limbo is a frame that while interesting, has fallen prey to becoming obscure with time. 

His once all-powerful kit has now become diminished into a shadow of it's former self, with defense missions being his only real niche. 

Need examples?

Old Limbo was untouchable. Now eximus enemies can easily kill him. 

Old Limbo could freeze anything in his path. Now Limbo is desperately fighting for control of his own domain. 

Old Limbo could easily build up big damage. Now he has to make sure he doesn't accidentally kill himself with an eximus.

And the worst of them all, other frames have become as powerful as old Limbo, with none of the setbacks: Revenant is immortal while killing anything in his path, Wisp can cc and tank without effort, including eximus, Rhino can damage buff, cc, and tank, and Gauss almost has full immortality along with speed, cc, armor strip, energy regeneration, attack speed buffs, shield gate buffs, and high damage (in essence, he is Limbo but much faster and with more buffs).

And unlike Limbo, these frames can use helminth without crippling their kit, allowing them to completely cover all bases of old Limbo's kit without any limitations. 

 

 

 

So yes, Limbo needs a buff, and I hope he gets one soon.

 

I would like to see Limbo deleted from the game entirely. 

 

Yes theres like 5 people in all of creation that know how to play Limbo properly but most people dont. And bad limbos are still annoying. Not quite as annoying as they used to be but still annoying.

 

I know DE wont do that though so i'll accept a low pick rate as the nearest substitute.

 

 

[Colyeses]

25 minutes ago, (PSN)FunyFlyBoy said:

All I read in this is that "I was threatened by NOTHING before, and now ONE unit type threatens me, so I need buffs to compensate."

Change, adapt, or die.

That one unit type is one too many.

Limbo, for the longest time, was in a position where it was 'begrudgingly balanced'. He had the only untouchable invulnerability, the only threat being Nullifiers which were easily circumvented. The trade-off for this was that Limbo was barred from interacting with the game. He couldn't shoot things, he couldn't interact with consoles, he couldn't pick up carriables, he can't even loot. That's a steep trade-off.

Now, the drawbacks are still there, but the benefit is -completely- gone. He's not invulnerable anymore, but he still keeps his drawbacks. 

Effectively, the one thing LImbo had going for him is now done better by Shield Gating. A basekit mechanism beats out an entire Warframe. 

He needs his rework now. One idea that's always stuck with me is making the Rift his playground, giving him better control over its properties. Enemies that enter his domain should be given reason to fear him. Replace Stasis with a selection wheel with various passive effects that can be boosted into active effects, one of which would be Stasis. Another could be overcharging the energy/s effect into ability parameter boosters. All kinds of effects can be put in.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

12 minutes ago, Colyeses said:

That one unit type is one too many.

Limbo, for the longest time, was in a position where it was 'begrudgingly balanced'. He had the only untouchable invulnerability, the only threat being Nullifiers which were easily circumvented. The trade-off for this was that Limbo was barred from interacting with the game. He couldn't shoot things, he couldn't interact with consoles, he couldn't pick up carriables, he can't even loot. That's a steep trade-off.

Now, the drawbacks are still there, but the benefit is -completely- gone. He's not invulnerable anymore, but he still keeps his drawbacks. 

Effectively, the one thing LImbo had going for him is now done better by Shield Gating. A basekit mechanism beats out an entire Warframe. 

 

The best part is, current Revenant is just as powerful as old Limbo, but without having to rift enemies, making the current Limbo entirely useless. 

Current Limbo also is just as tanky as Gauss rn (Gauss technically being tankier against most eximus compared to Limbo), but Gauss has a much faster, less clunky kit that is identical to Limbo's in terms of functionality (damage immunity, energy regen, cc, and damage buffing), but, unlike limbo, doesn't dismantle your damage output. 

There's literally no reason to use Limbo because these two will outperform him every time.

[KitMeHarder]

12 minutes ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

The best part is, current Revenant is just as powerful as old Limbo

... only for himself. Limbo wasn't strong because he himself was untouchable, it was because he could impart that to every frame and defense objective in the game, almost unconditionally.

[gamingchair1121]

limbo is perfectly fine what are you talking about

and about eximus, just kill them. not really that hard when weapons like the destreza, glaive or chakkhurr exist.

also rolling guard helps him a lot

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

9 minutes ago, gamingchair1121 said:

limbo is perfectly fine what are you talking about

and about eximus, just kill them. not really that hard when weapons like the destreza, glaive or chakkhurr exist.

also rolling guard helps him a lot

He's slow with a kit that several other frames can do more quickly and efficiently. 

(I mean this as someone who loves limbo; it just doesn't feel the same anymore.)

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

13 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

 Limbo wasn't strong because he himself was untouchable, it was because he could impart that to every frame and defense objective in the game, almost unconditionally.

That's the one thing he still is optimal for. 

Outside of defense, Limbo is unnecessarily slow with no actual benefits compared to other frames.

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

I can't think of Limbo anymore without seeing this meme:

Spoiler

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Limbo. The playstyle is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics and quantum mechanics most of the synergies will go over a typical player's head. There's also Limbo's Dapper look, which is deftly woven into his characterisation - his concept draws heavily from Stephen Hawkings String theory, for instance. The mains understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these synergies, to realize that they're not just Useful- they say something deep about THE GAME. As a consequence people who dislike Limbo truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the Science behind his iconic ability "cataclysm," which itself is a great representation of what a worm hole used to create a small pocket through the 4th dimension would look like I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as DE's genius unfolds itself on their screens. What fools... how I pity them.  And yes by the way, I DO have a limbo tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only- And even they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand.

I agree that Limbo needs some tuning: He's a character that is needlessly complex for the purpose of doing what other frames can do with fewer steps. Furthermore, he's hard to play and build, which leads to people frequently using him in a way that just slows down the team. If they want Limbo to be really complicated, they should really just embrace the idea and add like 50 different effects across his kit to actually warrant that complexity. As of now, playing Limbo just feels like extra work.

[gamingchair1121]

Just now, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

He's slow with a kit that several other frames can do more quickly and efficiently.

he's still got advantages over the other frames like being able to bypass corpus lasers in the rift

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

2 minutes ago, (XBOX)Ampathetiic said:

I can't think of Limbo anymore without seeing this meme:

  Hide contents

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Limbo. The playstyle is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics and quantum mechanics most of the synergies will go over a typical player's head. There's also Limbo's Dapper look, which is deftly woven into his characterisation - his concept draws heavily from Stephen Hawkings String theory, for instance. The mains understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these synergies, to realize that they're not just Useful- they say something deep about THE GAME. As a consequence people who dislike Limbo truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the Science behind his iconic ability "cataclysm," which itself is a great representation of what a worm hole used to create a small pocket through the 4th dimension would look like I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as DE's genius unfolds itself on their screens. What fools... how I pity them.  And yes by the way, I DO have a limbo tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only- And even they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand.

 

 

I've actually seen a variation of that meme before. It's good.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

6 minutes ago, gamingchair1121 said:

he's still got advantages over the other frames like being able to bypass corpus lasers in the rift

But again, in those missions I can either (1) run through them while ignoring the damage and stagger, or (2), in the case of a spy mission, use a frame that can bypass them like Wukong, Wisp, or Ivara (With Wisp specifically having the damage immunity, cc, and damage multiplication that limbo has.)

[Raarsi]

I think if anything, Limbo just needs to lose the "Rift" component almost entirely.  Yes, it can be fun and interesting, but only for the person playing Limbo and not for the players he's annoying by shifting enemies and allies into a circumstance where they can't hit enemies.

Apply the rift effect only to Limbo's passive and his 4, while making his 1 just apply a debuff increasing damage dealt by Limbo while enhancing effects from his 2 and 3.  That way, Limbo would be more useful in more than just defense missions without being a total liability in groups.

[KitMeHarder]

56 minutes ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

That's the one thing he still is optimal for. 

No he's not. All you said about eximus applies to anything you're defending, I don't see why you'd think it'd be any different.

And Limbo's whole shtick is defense. He may have the occasional hyper-niche box breaking build or Rift Torrent build or etc..., but Limbo was good because of his ability to defend.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

32 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

No he's not. All you said about eximus applies to anything you're defending, I don't see why you'd think it'd be any different.

 

I still mention Limbo because his bubble can't get broken, but yeah I see where that is a problem.

[Lancars]

I don't like rift surge. But all of their other abilities are fine. IF i play long range i like to stand in the rift. stop time and open a bubble on enemies off in the distance and just headshot all of them.

People seem to be stuck in nuke mode most of the time. I don't see many playing utility roles like Loki. I change decoy for silence. I can shut things down easily and remove gunfire.

[Mazifet]

I'm gonna say it, Limbo doesn't need a rework. I have played him a ton (as you can tell by my pfp) and can confirm he does great right now. Defense? pop a max duration and min range cataclysm on it, your set. Exterminate/capture/rescue? you dont need a build just do it. you wanna do survival? slap rift torrent and breach surge on with a contagion zaw and watch your screen be filled with 2147483648 damage.

But wait, what do you do if you encounter an eximus? dodge, then kill. literally what you would do for any other frame. I don't understand why people think eximus are 1000 times more dangerous to limbo than any other frame, they do the same thing, less if you consider their weapons cant hurt you.

My point is, Limbo is perfect as he is. Other frames like inaros, hydroid, yareli, frost, and others need a rework, not a frame that can fill any roll you give him and do it very well.

[trst]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with Limbo's interactions with Eximus units besides the builds of anyone encountering problems with them.

That said, the only issue Limbo actually has is how slow and clunky his kit is. And that could be solved by increasing his base casting speed and giving him the Vauban treatment: merge two of his abilities and give him an entirely new one.

But even then he still has his uses as a defense frame and having literally free invulnerability. And there are other frames that are in greater need of changes before Limbo.

[0_The_F00l]

I am not sure i completely agree ,

Yes , some frames can do some of what limbo does better.

But there is no single frame that can do everything limbo does.

He is complex , absolutely , that is kind of a balancing point to how powerful he can be when played right. There is possibly only one other frame that is as complex , equinox.

And yes , eximus are a threat , they are supposed to be for every frame that had cc and debuff elements in their kit. Limbo is not alone in this , many CC focused frames need to be a lot more attentive now if they wish to survive and prosper.

Only thing i might consider a fair change would be the ability to damage overguard (and only overguard) through the rift.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

Primary, secondary, melee, Operator, specters.