PSA PSA: Heirloom Collection Platinum Changes & Lessons

[bedainey]

6 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

Timed exclusives have been the norm for years now, maybe 10 years.

Every single tiny thing has or had some sort of cosmetic (glyph, sigil, emblem, armor,....) that can't be obtained anymore, it can range from tactical missions (aka the emblem that changes with every tactical mission), trophies for winning tennocon cosplay, all the way to entire update bundles (railjack, deimos)

Those things are never comming back, you can't replay old tactical alerts, you can't buy the Itzal armor, you can't win 2022 contests. You, me, we have missed dozens of tiny tidbits over the years.

The difference is the involvement of money. You can earn those you mentioned by playing and trading for plat. A cosplay event is the farthest comparison you can make with this.

[KIREEK]

3 minutes ago, bedainey said:

The difference is the involvement of money. You can earn those you mentioned by playing and trading for plat. A cosplay event is the farthest comparison you can make with this.

No, some glyphs, armors and skins you most certainly cannot earn them.
Even the earnable stuff cannot be traded, you can't trade emblems.

While i understand that if you dedicate your time to it you could earn them, some of these tidbits are limited to a certain number of players, for example the emblem for the top enemy killers back when the leaderboards got reseted on a weekly basis, there can only be a top X players and even the emblems themselves got separated into several categories, 1 emblem per category, so even if were top 1, you would miss out on the other emblems, you can't have all 3 (can't remember how many there are to be honest)

A contest can also only have a single 1st place.

Twitch quizz also had a limited number of winners

"it's not the same thing", yes i get it, players are often drawing comparisons to the glyphs, armors and skins from the deimos and railjack, but if your fear is the FOMO thingy, then warframe has like 50 bad news for you, because you have already missed out on alot

[bedainey]

2 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

"it's not the same thing", yes i get it, players are often drawing comparisons to the glyphs, armors and skins from the deimos and railjack, but if your fear is the FOMO thingy, then warframe has like 50 bad news for you, because you have already missed out on alot

You missed my point where I said the difference was the involvement of money. Yes, earnable stuff cannot be traded, but you can earn it no matter how difficult it was. You're in DE levels of missing the mark.

[KIREEK]

But the deimos and railjack bundles costed money, you can't earn or trade for the stuff.
https://www.warframe.com/news/empyrean-supporter-pack

This is from 2020 btw, 3 years ago.

[(XBOX)Shodian]

52 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

But the deimos and railjack bundles costed money, you can't earn or trade for the stuff.
https://www.warframe.com/news/empyrean-supporter-pack

This is from 2020 btw, 3 years ago.

Yeah a lot of people seem to forget this isn't something new.

[(PSN)FrDiabloFr]

4 hours ago, (XBOX)toughdragon17 said:

Most likely she's already caused a huge commotion with approving the herloom pack in this condition and her handling of it after it released 

Agreed, i also didn’t like how quiet Pablo was and Reb cut Steve off a fair few times i feel like she may have pre warned them before the stream.

I also noticed a lot of comments being deleted in the stream comments pretty sure that’s twisting twitch rules.

Edited September 29, 2023 by (PSN)FrDiabloFr

[MirageKnight]

3 hours ago, (PSN)FrDiabloFr said:

I also noticed a lot of comments being deleted in the stream comments

Some of those comments were against twitch TOS, but most were regarding the heirloom collection- I watched some of the comment deletions happen in real time. 

That happened to one of my comments.

Note: They didn’t get all of the comments and criticisms regarding the collection, but they did nail a few that called for an outright boycott.

[(PSN)FrDiabloFr]

6 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

Some of those comments were against twitch TOS, but most were regarding the heirloom collection- I watched some of the comment deletions happen in real time. 

That happened to one of my comments.

Note: They didn’t get all of the comments and criticisms regarding the collection, but they did nail a few that called for an outright boycott.

From what i saw and i watched the stream too i did see heirloom comments disappear, not saying all comments would have been acceptable but a lot of comments had no issue and wouldn’t have violated anything.

[(PSN)MYKK678]

Still pushing the thread to 100 pages for absolutely no reason huh? 

Just something to consider; over the last 20-30 pages this vulgar thread has tried to rally folks to boycott parts of the game, directly insult/accuse DE staff members of preposterous things, had one absolute idiot describe how they were going to commit Fraud (which was correctly removed apparently), and despite multiple warnings of such, folks feigning surprise that their ultimatum wasn't successful.

DE has now given you 2 official answers to this pack, on the first page of this thread, and a final one in the Devstream. Theres no clearer way of saying "you're not getting what you want" nor that "you've lost" than has already been said.

 

I've no doubt that those with difficulties managing grudges will continue to push this past 100 pages until someone in DE finally sees sense and locks this, but its time to start asking yourselves; if you can take yourself out of the situation for 5 seconds, look at what was described to have happened above over the last 20-30 pages, and ask yourselves if those are the kinds of folks you'd want to listen to in any situation.

When credibility is Tarnished, so too are any solutions/propositions. You wanted to demand that your one and only solution be implemented, with some even thinking they had the right to dangle the whole "Warframe wouldnt exist without Founders Pack purchases" in DEs face as if you havent had a free MMO for the last 10 years because of it and had that gesture paid back 1000x over. These are nothing but a clear disconnect with reality. So much so that you cant even see why this threads continued existence is exactly why most of the Heirloom Comments were correctly Moderated during the Devstream.

 

There's no point replying to this as I won't be returning and reading them. It's over. It's time to come back to reality.

[MirageKnight]

23 minutes ago, (PSN)FrDiabloFr said:

not saying all comments would have been acceptable but a lot of comments had no issue and wouldn’t have violated anything.

Agreed :/

But hey, gotta control that narrative - right?

They did apologize and admit they screwed up, but it was arguably a really half-a**ed apology and they still refuse to fix the mess they created with this particular collection.

That’s fine DE. I still refuse to get those skins.

 

[PublikDomain]

6 hours ago, KIREEK said:

Timed exclusives have been the norm for years now, maybe 10 years.

Every single tiny thing has or had some sort of cosmetic (glyph, sigil, emblem, armor,....) that can't be obtained anymore, it can range from tactical missions (aka the emblem that changes with every tactical mission), trophies for winning tennocon cosplay, all the way to entire update bundles (railjack, deimos)

Those things are never comming back, you can't replay old tactical alerts, you can't buy the Itzal armor, you can't win 2022 contests. You, me, we have missed dozens of tiny tidbits over the years.

And that sucks. It sucked then. It sucks now. Suck is suck. Old suck doesn't justify more new suck.

6 hours ago, KIREEK said:

But the deimos and railjack bundles costed money, you can't earn or trade for the stuff.
https://www.warframe.com/news/empyrean-supporter-pack

This is from 2020 btw, 3 years ago.

Which went literally the same way as Heirloom packs.

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1151438-empyrean-supporter-pack/

Quote

I like that armor, but I don't $30 like it.

Quote

What's with these new bundles that cost money instead of Platinum? I mean cool, a bundle for the update, but 30 dollars is quite steep for how little is offered.

Quote

I thought warframe don't go in for microtransactions and they smack that *Limited-time offer* with no mention with a date so lot of players get the urge to buy it 

Quote

Me as well. Don't really want the plat or boosters. Wish this was just available in the market like most everything else. Not a lot of sleek, nice looking armor sets imo, and would love to have the poster in my orbiter.

Quote

I thought we wanted to tone down the FOMO stuff?  

cool beans seeing you still fully use FOMO to sell stuff.

The only difference was scale. Same things said. Same complaints. Same nothing resolution.

Edited September 29, 2023 by PublikDomain

[MirageKnight]

On 2023-09-29 at 5:12 PM, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

There's no point replying to this as I won't be returning and reading them.

Didn’t you say that the last time you were here?

 

DE-fenders gotta defend.

Am I right?

[PublikDomain]

12 minutes ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

Still pushing the thread to 100 pages for absolutely no reason huh? 

Just something to consider; over the last 20-30 pages this vulgar thread has tried to rally folks to boycott parts of the game, directly insult/accuse DE staff members of preposterous things, had one absolute idiot describe how they were going to commit Fraud (which was correctly removed apparently), and despite multiple warnings of such, folks feigning surprise that their ultimatum wasn't successful.

DE has now given you 2 official answers to this pack, on the first page of this thread, and a final one in the Devstream. Theres no clearer way of saying "you're not getting what you want" nor that "you've lost" than has already been said.

 

I've no doubt that those with difficulties managing grudges will continue to push this past 100 pages until someone in DE finally sees sense and locks this, but its time to start asking yourselves; if you can take yourself out of the situation for 5 seconds, look at what was described to have happened above over the last 20-30 pages, and ask yourselves if those are the kinds of folks you'd want to listen to in any situation.

When credibility is Tarnished, so too are any solutions/propositions. You wanted to demand that your one and only solution be implemented, with some even thinking they had the right to dangle the whole "Warframe wouldnt exist without Founders Pack purchases" in DEs face as if you havent had a free MMO for the last 10 years because of it and had that gesture paid back 1000x over. These are nothing but a clear disconnect with reality. So much so that you cant even see why this threads continued existence is exactly why most of the Heirloom Comments were correctly Moderated during the Devstream.

 

There's no point replying to this as I won't be returning and reading them. It's over. It's time to come back to reality.

I'm sure DE is so proud of you.

[Circle_of_Psi]

On 2023-09-29 at 5:32 PM, MirageKnight said:

DE-fenders gotta defend.

Am I right?

You have no idea...

 

On 2023-09-29 at 5:17 PM, MirageKnight said:

They did apologize and admit they screwed up, but it was arguably a really half-a**ed apology and they still refuse to fix the mess they created with this particular collection.

Like most of the time?

 

On 2023-09-29 at 10:07 AM, Voltage said:

They aren't clueless, it's the fact Devstreams are all PR and marketing now. The only Devstream that gives off the genuine vibe they used to have is TennoLive.

Rebecca (and the rest of the community team) has done this many times before. They know how to "resolve" these things and make them sweep under the rug.

On 2023-09-29 at 10:18 AM, PollexMessier said:

If this wasn't just your own greed driving your decision to not fix this, and Tencent is peaking over your shoulder preventing you from doing so. Prove you learned your lesson by never having timed exclusives again. Supporter packs included.

That's the only way you're getting any support back from me at this point. No more timed exclusives at all, or I'm done.

If this wasn't a Tencent decision then you had every opportunity to fix what you did and just refused to. If that's the case I've lost all respect for your game, your company, and all of you that had any say in the matter. I'm giving you the, at this point extremely generous, benefit of the doubt that you guys may have had your hands tied.

If you care, but can't say anyhting to upset daddy tencent. Prove it with your actions, and be better even than you were before. No more of this, not even for the tiniest thing.

This ^

 

[MirageKnight]

 

12 minutes ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

You have no idea...

Sadly, I’ve got a pretty good idea.

I’ve been around here on and off for 10 years now and been attacked for asking for arguably fair and reasonable changes that would benefit a majority of players at least.

The white knighting got so bad I left the forums for at least a year.

Edited September 29, 2023 by MirageKnight

[Circle_of_Psi]

12 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

 

Sadly, I’ve got a pretty good idea.

I’ve been around here on and off for 10 years now and been attacked for asking for arguably fair and reasonable changes that would benefit a majority of players at least.

The white knighting got so bad I left the forums for at least a year.

Yup

(Also lovely name, an illusion of a Knight, since the meaning of the word mirage is that lol)

 

[KIREEK]

1 hour ago, PublikDomain said:

And that sucks. It sucked then. It sucks now. Suck is suck. Old suck doesn't justify more new suck.

Which went literally the same way as Heirloom packs.

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1151438-empyrean-supporter-pack/

The only difference was scale. Same things said. Same complaints. Same nothing resolution.

Yes i know that, but i was having a conversation with someone who was essentially going to quit after missing out on something. I explained that he already missed on countless things like the one i mentioned or the prizes from contests, so the excuse of it being "this bundle" is bs, the player doesn't like the game in some way and is then trowing the blame on DE due to the bundle.

The game will continue to have time limited content, some earned, some purchased. Yes it sucks, but that won't change anything, even if by some sheer miracle this was "the last time it happened", players would continue to miss out on things, FOMO is in place for 10 years now, the only things that came back were a few mods or the event weapons. The emblems, sigils, emotes, color packs, accolades and god knows what else is forever locked.

If a player is afraid on missing 1 thing, regardless of what it is, then the best is to quit right now. Comming here with the entire "i'm quitting, but i'm only doing due to this bundle" is silly.

[Voltage]

11 hours ago, KIREEK said:

But the deimos and railjack bundles costed money, you can't earn or trade for the stuff.
https://www.warframe.com/news/empyrean-supporter-pack

This is from 2020 btw, 3 years ago.

It's almost like those bundles were considerably less money, weren't to celebrate a major overall milestone, or offering a "Railjack Founder" profile Accolade.

Context is important. Sure, these bundles are similar in nature, but it's pretty obvious why this one set off so many people.  

Edited September 29, 2023 by Voltage

[(XBOX)LadyWinterstorm]

13 hours ago, Anmorata_Armitage said:

The line must be drawn here, this far no further. 

Reb: "Resistance is futile"

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

10 hours ago, (PSN)FrDiabloFr said:

Agreed, i also didn’t like how quiet Pablo was and Reb cut Steve off a fair few times i feel like she may have pre warned them before the stream.

I also noticed a lot of comments being deleted in the stream comments pretty sure that’s twisting twitch rules.

They were sitting there taking away freedom of speech right there even if some were against the rules not every single one was and they started deleting them to silence us and keep us from having our freedom to say we want a better product that is cheaper and more affordable for all and for them to stop neglecting there fans that have been with them for years

[Voltage]

57 minutes ago, ConDucktorWhirl said:

I really hope these DEfenders get screwed over at somepoint.

I'm sure it will happen eventually.

I drew relation to Primed Chamber earlier (mostly because I was the OP of that 38 page disaster that I had to have locked), and it's a prime example. People then acted as if I was entitled for questioning the nature of reintroducing the mod in a way that robbed the significance it represented prior. Now we see this Heirloom package that robs real 10 year supporters of their significance. It's one of those things you just want to rub your forehead about instead of laughing at the irony. This is exclusive "pride and accomplishment" more visible than Primed Chamber ever was, and I doubt it will really get any better.

Trust is hard to gain and easy to lose. This will happen again in ~1-2 years with something else when loads of these angry players aren't around anymore and most people forget to draw the parallels. Comments like PublikDomain's that document old incidents just find their way to obscurity like mine, and we all just sit here looking like fools.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Voltage

[MirageKnight]

1 hour ago, ConDucktorWhirl said:

Who are you again?

Apparently some gamer that feels the need to protect their beloved company from criticism they don't agree with by lecturing us about how vulgar and ungrateful we are and how we need to just accept the situation like good players and keep quiet.

3 minutes ago, Voltage said:

I drew relation to Primed Chamber earlier (mostly because I was the OP of that 38 page disaster that I had to have locked), and it's a prime example. People then acted as if I was entitled for questioning the nature of reintroducing the mod in a way that robbed the significance it represented prior.

I remember that fiasco. You came from a well-meant place and you tried your best...the problem was the sheer number of white knights that crawled out of the woodwork to turn a legitimate discussion into a toxic warzone.

All over a mod.
 

Quote

It's one of those things you just want to rub your forehead about instead of laughing at the irony.

Will a sigh of exasperation suffice as well?

[Voltage]

20 hours ago, KIREEK said:

Yes i know that, but i was having a conversation with someone who was essentially going to quit after missing out on something. I explained that he already missed on countless things like the one i mentioned or the prizes from contests, so the excuse of it being "this bundle" is bs, the player doesn't like the game in some way and is then trowing the blame on DE due to the bundle.

The game will continue to have time limited content, some earned, some purchased. Yes it sucks, but that won't change anything, even if by some sheer miracle this was "the last time it happened", players would continue to miss out on things, FOMO is in place for 10 years now, the only things that came back were a few mods or the event weapons. The emblems, sigils, emotes, color packs, accolades and god knows what else is forever locked.

The problem is compounded through accumulation. Accolades are extremely rare in Warframe. The skins are extremely different from the style of skins we get lately (no offense Liger). The significance of the skins and the package is meant to support 10 years of good practice and success. The pricing is quite steep. There are many factors that differentiate this pack between older ones, and the compounding effect can make this sting more as an older player than a newer one.

DE is better than this. People weren't expecting the "Pride and Accomplishment" angle.

20 hours ago, KIREEK said:

If a player is afraid on missing 1 thing, regardless of what it is, then the best is to quit right now. Comming here with the entire "i'm quitting, but i'm only doing due to this bundle" is silly.

Why is it silly? When you quit something, there is a defining moment. In a live-service game, it's either one of 3 things:

1. You are not enjoying the game anymore.
2. You are banned.
3. The developers make just one decision that pushes you over the edge to removing yourself from the game.

It's really easy to write off someone else's frustration in a position such as yourself. Many Forum goers know that you sit at Mastery Rank 16 and consciously avoiding ownership of most equipment. Your profile screen clearly indicates that incompletion of content is no big deal to you. This extends to how you consider the significance and representation of exclusives with how you handled Ignis Wraith. You made it your mission to shatter what that clan research represented and took upon yourself the role of martyr for the instatement of research for all clans. There was absolutely a better way to add the research to all clans more fairly while still respecting the original addition of the content, just like Primed Chamber, and just like Login Rewards.

Exclusives and FOMO are bad for any game. That much is pretty simple to observe. It alienates players between have and have-nots, and ruins the vibe behind games that specifically depend on their loot systems (like Warframe or Destiny 2). Every player here is negatively affected by what Heirloom packs stand for. You can disagree all you want or say the classic "but it's already been this way for a while", but you can't hide that it affects you too. It hollows out one of the core pillars behind Warframe from a progressional standpoint. It hollows out the nature of FashionFrame if such a percentage of good-looking gear is more exclusive than available. This has negatively affected how Vaulted Primes are earned. This has negatively affected the way we play new content (Archon Shards, The Circuit, scheduled content, etc.). It's now made it's way into hollowing out the achievement of your age as a player. The only significant badge at this point is the Founders one, and at some point that will be shattered as well when the game is on its last breath. They gave this much away when 2019 led into severely negative reception. They pumped Primed Chamber into Baro's offerings and Operation: Scarlet Spear raining with Arcane Energize to revitalize engagement with a game that just made several questionable updates in chained succession.

This thread blows up because it marked a significant milestone, just not the one DE was thinking, but with the way players feel treated.

Edited September 30, 2023 by Voltage

[(PSN)FrDiabloFr]

8 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

Agreed :/

But hey, gotta control that narrative - right?

They did apologize and admit they screwed up, but it was arguably a really half-a**ed apology and they still refuse to fix the mess they created with this particular collection.

That’s fine DE. I still refuse to get those skins.

 

100% agree with you.

[(XBOX)sinamanthediva]

1 hour ago, Voltage said:

*Snip

I must again thank you for your Pearls of Wisdom that hopefully can give some insight to those that are quick to cast foul judgement on those of us who take the time to voice our opinions here not because we thrive on trash talking DE, but because we truly enjoy Warframe and have invested YEARS of our lives in this game and only offer ways to IMPROVE the quality of Warframe for everyone.  I/We would not be here if the game was not worth the effort of 100 pages of frustration and anxiety caused by the Heirloom Debacle and what its implications mean for the future of Warframe.    FOMO has occurred before and no doubt will likely return again when DE needs to make some sales quota decreed by the great and powerful OZ.  This is a celebration of 10 years of Warframe and for many of us that have lived through the Glory Days of Warframe when DE put forth the effort to appear to care about it's players; so in return, we kept the pipeline of cash flowing over the years, to show our support.  To say thank you to everyone for their YEARS of making sure DE can keep the lights on, they offer the gracious and charitable Heirloom Pack wherein if we are TRUE SUPPORTERS of Warframe then we will have to dig DEEP in our pockets one last time to be rewarded with a glorious 10 YEAR SUPPORT ACCOLADE!  I truly can not think of anything more disrespectful and disingenuous to all the players that have invested hundreds if not thousands of dollars over the past ten years, only to be told it means NOTHING unless you buy this ONE TIME ONLY OVERPRICED COSMETIC BUNDLE!  If anyone does NOT comprehend how this is NOT appropriate for ANY company to offer as a "THANK YOU" for the past 10 years of reaping the fruits of it's many generous supportive players, then please seek professional help. ( 1-800-Get-Good ) 
|This is unacceptable to those of us that still have a red hand-print across the face from this blasphemous show of gratitude from DE.  I don't agree with the price of the Heirloom pack, nor what it contains, but also understand it is their business decision to offer the price they so deem it's worth.  Totally acceptable to charge whatever they want and as a consumer I can choose to not buy it. Done.  Do NOT tell me I have not supported DE for the past ten years unless I now buy this one bundle where ANYONE can be labeled a "10 YEAR SUPPORTER" if they cough up the money this ONE TIME ONLY. 

BE BETTER NOW DE, NOT LATER!  You had ten years to become something we want to admire and be proud to say we support you! This is NOT the way! 

P.S.
Sorry about the run-on sentences and bad grammar but am too tired and irritated from this Heirloom mess to make changes. UGH!

Edited September 30, 2023 by (XBOX)sinamanthediva
Apology added