Warframe Youtubers and their Overhyping "The Best x thing in the game" mentality.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

I've gotten sick of hearing Youtubers label every item, Warframe, weapon etc as the "Best in the entire game" and Overhype their statement with carefully orchestrated clips and cuts of them using said Warframe/Weapon along with big numbers.

Have we not established already that in this game, there isn't really anything that's the "best"?

there are worse items for sure, but to say for example "This Warframe" is the best in the entire game, is missing the point...

no matter how many tier lists you make, Warframe doesn't have categories...we don't have a Tank, Healer, DPS classes so we obviously don't need to classify Warframes based on metrics that don't exist.

we can have a Warframe that primarily deals damage, or a Warframe that primarily supports, or one in between, or one with a completely different motive...but they don't get shelved each in their own "specific" category.

 

same things with weapons. yes some weapons are too low level to be considered "the best" but if every weapon is scaled up to a fixed particular level the result would probably be the same with every weapon.

 

am I making any sense here? I don't know.

[(PSN)Unstar]

If a YouTuber thinks a weapon is the best in the game and wants to tell folks about it, I don't see the problem.  Let them have and share their opinion.  As long as they're not gatekeeping and saying everyone has to use that weapon or they're trash, there's nothing wrong with having a different perspective.

Edited August 31, 2023 by (PSN)Unstar

[Jivy]

This isn't exclusive to Warframe

This is just how Youtubers get views and share info

[(NSW)Greybones]

Seems a fair assessment. I’ve sometimes wondered whether these youtubers are also the source of burning 7 mod slots and calling it a “Default build”, which is shockingly short-sighted and doing no-one any favours.

 🤔 I’m guessing the only way they know how to stay relevant is to try and identify The Next Best Thing, which inevitably comes down to trying to categorize equipment. In Warframe’s case, the categorization has dramatically shifted from “Can do content”, which has a limit, to “Can overkill more than the next thing”, which doesn’t have a limit and can include things like esoteric ways to build or unintended interactions.

I tend to steer clear of youtubers who make bombastic simplified claims about a game full of nuance, or take them with a huge grain of salt, otherwise I expect my outlook would have been dramatically warped for the worse by this point

Edited August 31, 2023 by (NSW)Greybones

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

2 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

If a YouTuber thinks a weapon is the best in the game and wants to tell folks about it, I don't see the problem.  Let them have and share their opinion.  As long as they're not gatekeeping and saying everyone has to use that weapon or they're trash, there's nothing wrong with having a different perspective.

but that's the problem, it's not "a" Weapon, it's literally every weapon now.

and I'm not really hating, yes I'm sick of it, but only because I think there is no point

[rapt0rman]

Baulder's Gate 3 hadn't even been out for like a week before the "10 items you absolutely must get" vids started popping up.

[EdinaMonsoon]

i'm more annoyed about misleading click bait, there was one video that had hayden tenno in the title about the 1999 reveal despite the character explicitly being named arthur...

[Alguien]

Lol, I remember before the New War, every warframe youtuber was tripping on each other what builds you gonna need for the New War, how do you need all this end game equipment, maxed arcane, specific amps, maxed schools, and other stuff that was completely irrelevant.

At the end of the day, they are only interested in views and clickbait brings them.

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

Seems like the average YouTuber behavior, just throw buzzwords and a flashy thumbnail to get the most views

[Leqesai]

5 minutes ago, Jivy said:

This isn't exclusive to Warframe

This is just how Youtubers get views and share info

Exactly. Best thing anyone can do is ignore 99% of youtubers. Youtube is a cesspool.

[(PSN)Unstar]

1 minute ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

but that's the problem, it's not "a" Weapon, it's literally every weapon now.

If we take it in good faith, it makes sense because Warframe does have powercreep, which means that as new updates are released there will regularly be new "best" things that players find, sometimes even in the same update since it takes players time to test different weapons and determine how they feel about them.  So maybe they try Incarnon Boltor and love it so it's the best now, but then a week later they try Incarnon Strun and like it even better so it's the best now.  I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Genuinely curious, how do you feel that this negatively impacts you?

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

Genuinely curious, how do you feel that this negatively impacts you?

mild annoyance, nothing more really.

I use Youtubers only to see how the weapon/Warframe looks/performs before getting it...and there are these Warframe specific videos that go through their update history, their abilities and how they are now...and in each video of those I ought to hear once or twice how this is the "best buffing ability in the game" or the "best Warframe in the game" and it's just grew stale to the point where I started to question the point. 

And well, they're not lying, the thing they're labeling as the best is more likely than not an actually good and very useful tool, but there is no point in calling it the best, even if it is in some instances.

[kamisama85]

Youtubers opinions are just another reference for you but at the end of the day its up to you to test your own theories and scenarios and find what is actually "best" when it comes to you and your playstyle.

[(NSW)Greybones]

18 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

If a YouTuber thinks a weapon is the best in the game and wants to tell folks about it, I don't see the problem.  Let them have and share their opinion.  As long as they're not gatekeeping and saying everyone has to use that weapon or they're trash, there's nothing wrong with having a different perspective.

I think there might be issues with representation.  I sort of understand what they mean by The Best, but that certainly doesn’t necessarily mean it’s The Best For Me, compounded by the fact that they seem to have like one build on the thing and are playing in a way that doesn’t look all that interesting as a main way to play (even if it might be fine for an every-so-often thing). But I’m also not really seeing alternatives; the “Here’s the BEST THING” keeps drowning them out.

Personally I love exploring alternatives because I found that sticking to a few just wasn’t cutting it for me, but these videos are also catering to players who find it too much effort to switch a bane mod out, and without alternative representation of different ways to build and play outside of the subjective Best, they’ll have extra friction when trying to explore alternatives that they might find surprisingly enjoyable because they’ve got to go against what someone (who probably knows better, right?) labels as The Best.

 🤔 Though maybe that inclination to explore just isn’t there in the first place and never will be. Which could make videos like The Best gospel truth instead of subjective because the viewer will literally never know what they don’t know

[(PSN)robotwars7]

or you could just, you know.. ignore all the obvious clickbait. it's not that hard to do.

 

[Raarsi]

10 minutes ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

I use Youtubers only to see how the weapon/Warframe looks/performs before getting it...

That's why I just play them on mute and pause them whenever I need to read the tooltips.

Yes, they're good for reference material, but that also requires understanding how that material can and should be presented along with which Youtubers succeed in providing it.

[PrideB4TheFall]

I'm more annoyed with youtubers sharing their recent livelihood for the first 3/4ths of the video before getting to the damned point. 

[Leqesai]

6 minutes ago, PrideB4TheFall said:

I'm more annoyed with youtubers sharing their recent livelihood for the first 3/4ths of the video before getting to the damned point. 

The up-talk and reference to their viewers as "X-army" or any other kind of stupid little pet name really annoys me. Moreso because these people are not authorities on the games they're playing. 

Seriously just ignore most youtubers. Social media influencers are a blight.

[BroDutt]

The worse part is when said best weapon only did million damage after being buff with ability and armor stripping.

I hate some of the Warframe build that brag about how crazy the damage it does  when on actual gameplay requires a lot of energy pizza and said Warframe probably dead after dealing said million damages. I rarely see Youtuber use the SP Circuit as their real gameplay because they can't use gear (for decaying key and pizza) or bring companion.

Atleast some of them like Mr.Warframe Guy were just making fun of their own builds (he sometimes show that his warframe just died after dealing million damages).  

[(PSN)Unstar]

43 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

I think there might be issues with representation.  I sort of understand what they mean by The Best, but that certainly doesn’t necessarily mean it’s The Best For Me, compounded by the fact that they seem to have like one build on the thing and are playing in a way that doesn’t look all that interesting as a main way to play (even if it might be fine for an every-so-often thing). But I’m also not really seeing alternatives; the “Here’s the BEST THING” keeps drowning them out.

Personally I love exploring alternatives because I found that sticking to a few just wasn’t cutting it for me, but these videos are also catering to players who find it too much effort to switch a bane mod out, and without alternative representation of different ways to build and play outside of the subjective Best, they’ll have extra friction when trying to explore alternatives that they might find surprisingly enjoyable because they’ve got to go against what someone (who probably knows better, right?) labels as The Best.

 🤔 Though maybe that inclination to explore just isn’t there in the first place and never will be. Which could make videos like The Best gospel truth instead of subjective because the viewer will literally never know what they don’t know

I can only offer my subjective stance, but when I watch a video like this, I try to interpret it more like a film or game review: I know I'm getting someone's subjective opinion, and I know that it's possible that our tastes may vary, so I listen to what they're saying while understanding that their opinion is not objective reality and may not fit perfectly with my needs.  To that end, I try to get what I can out of each video, and I try to find specific reviewers that think closer to the way I do — or at least, identify the way our tastes differ — so that when I hear their thoughts I know better how to filter them and how much they may or may not apply to me.  For my tastes, Brozime is as good as it gets, though I've recently been appreciating some of LeyzarGaming's work since Brozime has been doing fewer videos and more streams lately.

Sometimes I flat out disagree or am very skeptical of opinions.  I remember seeing the bulk of YouTubers (even Brozime) give a big thumbs down to the Bo Prime Incarnon, only to test it myself and discover that their builds were far from optimal.  But that's fine.  They're people too, and sometimes they make mistakes and get it wrong.

This is just a guess on my part, but any player who is genuinely just taking YouTuber videos as gospel is probably still at a place in their Warframe journey where they aren't interested in exploring; they probably just want something that wins, and I'm glad YouTubers can give them that.  Even if it's not "the best", it will almost surely be "good enough" for such players.  And if it's not, maybe that will provide the incentive to explore a bit, if that's something they're interested in.  Or not.  Either way, I think these YouTubers are likely doing far more good than harm for the Warframe community by serving players like these.  Just my armchair opinion, tho.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

I've gotten sick of hearing Youtubers label every item, Warframe, weapon etc as the "Best in the entire game" and Overhype their statement with carefully orchestrated clips and cuts of them using said Warframe/Weapon along with big numbers.

Have we not established already that in this game, there isn't really anything that's the "best"?

there are worse items for sure, but to say for example "This Warframe" is the best in the entire game, is missing the point...

no matter how many tier lists you make, Warframe doesn't have categories...we don't have a Tank, Healer, DPS classes so we obviously don't need to classify Warframes based on metrics that don't exist.

we can have a Warframe that primarily deals damage, or a Warframe that primarily supports, or one in between, or one with a completely different motive...but they don't get shelved each in their own "specific" category.

 

same things with weapons. yes some weapons are too low level to be considered "the best" but if every weapon is scaled up to a fixed particular level the result would probably be the same with every weapon.

 

am I making any sense here? I don't know.

 

1 hour ago, Jivy said:

This isn't exclusive to Warframe

This is just how Youtubers get views and share info

This happens in several other games including games like call of duty. 

For example, the amount of times I've seen "invincible" or "infinite abilities" in Destiny 2 are too many to count (and btw, half of these builds revolve entirely around killing fodder enemies that aren't always present in every situation)

In fact, it's even worse in Destiny because most builds involve the same 2-3 exotics per subclass, so everything feels copy-paste with a few changes out of personal preference.

[Leqesai]

8 minutes ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

 

This happens in several other games including games like call of duty. 

For example, the amount of times I've seen "invincible" or "infinite abilities" in Destiny 2 are too many to count (and btw, half of these builds revolve entirely around killing fodder enemies that aren't always present in every situation)

In fact, it's even worse in Destiny because most builds involve the same 2-3 exotics per subclass, so everything feels copy-paste with a few changes out of personal preference.

Fact is, for all the fun and interesting videos on Youtube, it is an incredibly predatory social media platform. People can (and do) post sensationalist click-bait type stuff constantly and there is absolutely zero accountability for keeping a manner of quality control over stuff. It takes all of 3 seconds to find content that is straight up against youtube's rules, with post dates of months/years. 

[(NSW)Greybones]

21 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

I can only offer my subjective stance, but when I watch a video like this, I try to interpret it more like a film or game review: I know I'm getting someone's subjective opinion, and I know that it's possible that our tastes may vary, so I listen to what they're saying while understanding that their opinion is not objective reality and may not fit perfectly with my needs.  To that end, I try to get what I can out of each video, and I try to find specific reviewers that think closer to the way I do — or at least, identify the way our tastes differ — so that when I hear their thoughts I know better how to filter them and how much they may or may not apply to me.  For my tastes, Brozime is as good as it gets, though I've recently been appreciating some of LeyzarGaming's work since Brozime has been doing fewer videos and more streams lately.

Sometimes I flat out disagree or am very skeptical of opinions.  I remember seeing the bulk of YouTubers (even Brozime) give a big thumbs down to the Bo Prime Incarnon, only to test it myself and discover that their builds were far from optimal.  But that's fine.  They're people too, and sometimes they make mistakes and get it wrong.

This is just a guess on my part, but any player who is genuinely just taking YouTuber videos as gospel is probably still at a place in their Warframe journey where they aren't interested in exploring; they probably just want something that wins, and I'm glad YouTubers can give them that.  Even if it's not "the best", it will almost surely be "good enough" for such players.  And if it's not, maybe that will provide the incentive to explore a bit, if that's something they're interested in.  Or not.  Either way, I think these YouTubers are likely doing far more good than harm for the Warframe community by serving players like these.  Just my armchair opinion, tho.

I guess. Though it’s not like players can’t be uninterested in exploring for thousands of hours if not the entirety of their playtime. And if they start imparting their knowledge to newbies, and if their knowledge consists entirely of what Youtube videos say because they have no alternative experience, the knowledge imparted is similarly limited. And thus does representation and diversity of build/loadout/playstyles get simplified and die, since it’s not like the newbie has any particular reason to question common wisdom as long as what’s offered can get the job done even if it’s not what they’re looking for or would enjoy using

[Lilybun]

1 hour ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

or you could just, you know.. ignore all the obvious clickbait. it's not that hard to do

Precisely. I'd also suggest using the "don't recommend this channel" feature if youtube is spamming you with clickbait channels. Makes the site a lot more usable.

[LittleLeoniePrime]

eh... I started currating my sub-box by who started suddenly getting really clickbaity with their titles and thumbnails. Especially with the new incarnons since they were honestly just one broken weapon after another...