Performing a series of specific Parkour Movements > Tapping a Button. Why Nerfing Exodia Contagion is a MISTAKE

[Roble_Viejo]

DE wants to Nerf the Ability for Players to perform a Heavy Attack Mid-Air when using Exodia Contagion
which requires a Series of specific Parkour Movements, which means this is a form of TECH

I can equip the Kuva Bramma and do more DMG simply tapping a button
I can equip Incarnon Skana and hit DMG Cap by mashing the Melee button
So... why is performing a series of specific Parkour Movements to do lots of DMG "wrong"??? 

This is one of the few forms of Tech remaining in Warframe, because DE has "fixed" every other
Remember Coptering? Remember Zooming? These are all maneuvers that require the Player
to know how to use every input and how to weave them in the right order in an specific window of time

Tech is a form of SKILL, this is one of the very few things in Warframe that actually require a bit of skill
to pull off, so why in the name of Lotus is DE attempting to "fix" it? Specially since I can do a LOT more
damage with AoE Weapons that simply require me to tap a single button...

Reasons why Heavy Attacks Mid-Air are OBJECTIVELY GOOD FOR THE GAME:
A. You need to fully equip your Melee, so you cant use other Weapons when doing so
B. You need to learn how to perform these Maneuvers in the right order, otherwise it wont work
C. It opens the possibility for a whole different Build instead of the staple raw DMG build
D. Exodia Contagion is a RARE Arcane that is only available every other year and requires a lot of grinding to get

In resume, If DE "fixes" Mid-Air Heavy Attacks they would be:
A. Removing a form of Tech from the Game
B. Punishing Players who grinded for Exodia Contagion
C. Removing a whole Build from the Player's Option
D. Pushing Players to use other AoE methods which do more dmg and are easier to use

Basically DE would be dumbing down the Gameplay for those of us who actually care about Tech

DE said it themselves: This requires a Series of Specific Parkour Movements to pull off

Why is Performing a Combo that requires the Player to press specific Button in the right order something "Bad"???
In any case its one of the very few examples on the type of Mechanics Warframe should have more of !

[Pakaku]

So, before we start this debate, tell me step-by-step how I was supposed to perform this exploit

[Roble_Viejo]

hace 4 minutos, Pakaku dijo:

So, before we start this debate, tell me step-by-step how I was supposed to perform this exploit

I included it the Post, then I realized DE might use that knowledge to actually remove it

I will tell you the Inputs in the worng order and then you try to do it yourself, this way
I can prove it actually requires Skill and Mindful use of Mechanics

- Fully Equip your Melee by Holding the Swap Weapon Button
- Press the Heavy Attack input
- Aim Glide by Holding Right Click
- Slide Mid-Air
- Move Backwards

You have to do all of this before touching the Ground and you have to do it in the right order

And even then you can only do this ONCE in a single Aim Glide

Honestly Im baffled DE unironically thinks this is an "exploit"
When I can equip the Incarnon Skana and mindlessly mash Melee until I hit DAMAGE CAP
 

 

[TARINunit9]

23 minutes ago, Roble_Viejo said:

DE wants to Nerf the Ability for Players to perform a Heavy Attack Mid-Air when using Exodia Contagion

Hang on I gotta check which one Contagion is...

...Space + Space + E, while holding right click. It does not require setup or heavy attack, or sliding, or bullet jumping, or hold-F equipping at all

And Space + Space + E is incredibly spammable, on the same level as Kuva Bramma

Sounds more like they're fixing another big and this "midair heavy attack" bug (which isn't even the only or indeed intended way to do Contagion) got caught in the crossfire 

[--F--NerevarCM]

5 minutes ago, Roble_Viejo said:

I can prove it actually requires Skill and Mindful use of Mechanics

 

5 minutes ago, Roble_Viejo said:

- Fully Equip your Melee by Holding the Swap Weapon Button
- Press the Heavy Attack input
- Aim Glide by Holding Right Click
- Slide Mid-Air
- Move Backwards

Holy S#&$! That's some insanely hard stuff you need to do! Did you guys know how hard it is to press the Heavy attack button?!?

[Roble_Viejo]

hace 1 minuto, TARINunit9 dijo:

Hang on I gotta check which one Contagion is...

...Space + Space + E, while holding right click. It does not require setup or heavy attack, or sliding, or bullet jumping, or hold-F equipping at all

And Space + Space + E is incredibly spammable, on the same level as Kuva Bramma

Yes, The regular Attack is much easier to do but is also much weaker. It does less DMG than Kuva Bramma or Zarr.
In fact the Exodia Contagion Mid-Air Heavy Attack does LESS DMG than Glaives's heavy Attack Explosion

Literally makes no sense to remove this using the "exploit" excuse, because is not even that strong
 

hace 2 minutos, TARINunit9 dijo:

Sounds more like they're fixing another big and this "midair heavy attack" bug (which isn't even the only or indeed intended way to do Contagion) got caught in the crossfire

No. DE specifically said this was a "fix" to Exodia Contagion (which by the way has been nerfed a dozen of times already)

[-Krism-]

30 minutes ago, Roble_Viejo said:

which requires a Series of specific Parkour Movements, which means this is a form of TECH

You mean double jumping & heavy attack while aiming?

Oh noes! How complicated, my brain can't handle such complex instructions!

[Roble_Viejo]

hace 1 minuto, --F--NerevarCM dijo:

Holy S#&$! That's some insanely hard stuff you need to do! Did you guys know how hard it is to press the Heavy attack button?!?

I can press 1 single button and do more DMG with the Kuva Bramma or the Zarr
I can press 2 buttons and do A LOT MORE DMG with the Glaive Heavy-Attack Explosion

 

[--F--NerevarCM]

Just now, Roble_Viejo said:

I can press 1 single button and do more DMG with the Kuva Bramma or the Zarr
I can press 2 buttons and do A LOT MORE DMG with the Glaive Heavy-Attack Explosion

 

Do you know what is hard to do? Play Street Fighter and do a Kara Demon cancel with Akuma, that requires pressing a sequence of 5 button while dashing during a 2 frame window.

This is not hard dude.

[VibingCat]

Once again, DE ignores the community to nerf something that totally didn't deserve it. I'm one step closer to abandoning the game forever.

[--F--NerevarCM]

1 minute ago, VibingCat said:

Once again, DE ignores the community to nerf something that totally didn't deserve it. I'm one step closer to abandoning the game forever.

Dude, just go and stop being dramatic

[Roble_Viejo]

hace 1 minuto, --F--NerevarCM dijo:

Do you know what is hard to do? Play Street Fighter and do a Kara Demon cancel with Akuma, that requires pressing a sequence of 5 button while dashing during a 2 frame window.

This is not hard dude.

Is it Hard? Of course not. As you said other Games have much Harder Combos

Is it Tech? Yes, absolutely. And is one of the very few forms of Tech remaining in Warframe

You know whats a lot stronger than this?
Wisp with Glaive using Heavy Attack Explosions during Aim-Glide
Or Mirage pressing 1 and then Left Click when using an AoE Primary Weapon

It literally makes no sense at all to "fix" Exodia Contagion when
there are lots of easier ways to do absurd amounts of dmg

Im defending this because I consider Warframe's Gameplay too simple
and I use different forms of Tech to have fun, Im not a Kuva Bramma + Wukong Main
Im a Xaku Player who uses the Zymos + Xata Whisper, who uses Ensare + Gaze + Exodia Contagion

These are Builds that are fun because they are more complex than other forms of Gameplay
and even then this is extremely easy and simple compared to other Games
 

[Pakaku]

12 minutes ago, --F--NerevarCM said:

Do you know what is hard to do? Play Street Fighter and do a Kara Demon cancel with Akuma, that requires pressing a sequence of 5 button while dashing during a 2 frame window.

This is not hard dude.

i was honestly expecting something actually complicated, yeah. This game could use more skill-based action inputs, it would definitely make melee feel less monotonous and boring. Which is ironic considering they were attempting some sort of depth with Duviri (whether they actually succeeded or not)

They should have taken the hint that this exploit shows people want to do more technical inputs, and instead of removing it outright, take the concept and turn it into an official gameplay mechanic that isn't just limited to one zaw arcane

Edited September 12, 2023 by Pakaku

[trst]

It's an unintended interaction as mid-air heavy attacks are not an intended mechanic. Thus utilizing it specifically to gain the bonus multiplier on Contagion is a full on exploit.

The specifics on what it takes to input or how effective it is relative to other weapons is entirely irrelevant. It's a bug that players are exploiting to some degree.

 

That said if you want it to be retained then go post feedback asking for mid-air heavy attacks to be a feature and for this function to apply to Contagion. Instead of the ever unproductive shouting into the void that is posting complaints into General Discussion.

[Tiltskillet]

18 minutes ago, Roble_Viejo said:

- Fully Equip your Melee by Holding the Swap Weapon Button
- Press the Heavy Attack input
- Aim Glide by Holding Right Click
- Slide Mid-Air
- Move Backwards

You have to do all of this before touching the Ground and you have to do it in the right order

And even then you can only do this ONCE in a single Aim Glide

You have to force melee equip every time you want to do this?  Or just turn it on and leave it on?

[Roble_Viejo]

hace 1 minuto, Pakaku dijo:

This game could use more skill-based action inputs, it would definitely make melee feel less monotonous and boring.

Exactly. I use Xaku with Natural Talent, Tauforged Yellow Archon Shard for Casting Speed,
just so I can perform an Ensare + Gaze + Exodia Contagion/Zymos before touching the Ground

I like to push Warframe's Mechanics, this is not particularly difficult to pull of or specially powerful
But I love to Player with this Build because IT IS FUN

I know "DE is the Fun Police" has always been a Meme, but this is getting ridiculous

At this point is like DE wants Players to use the most mindless Gamestyles as possible
I mean I can grab Mirage or Wukong, subsume Roar, equip an AoE Primary and do 
even MORE DMG by simply running in a straight line tapping Left Click

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

I'm assuming OP is using "tech" in the same context as a certain youtuber

meaning: exploitable obscure interaction, likely unintended result of sphagetti code that DE themselves isn't fully aware of

[VibingCat]

2 minutes ago, --F--NerevarCM said:

Dude, just go and stop being dramatic

I have reported dozens of bugs and for what? I'm not dramatic but disappointed, my numerous efforts at showing actual problems to the developers were a waste of time since I wasn't even replied to. Whenever I see a hotfix I get excited hoping for any relevant improvements, and yet we still have many atrocious bugs that have been around for years (and many new ones on every update, inevitably), reported hundreds of times for nothing.

Sorry for ranting, I just find this unacceptable. 

[Roble_Viejo]

hace 9 minutos, Tiltskillet dijo:

You have to force melee equip every time you want to do this?  Or just turn it on and leave it on?

You cant use Quick Melee Attacks, so you need to Fully Equip your Melee
Once your Melee is "Fully" Equipped you can do this as many times as you want
(only ONCE per Aim Glide tho) and you cant use your Primary or Secondary

If you also want to use Guns you need to manually
unequip and re-equip your Melee every time

I actually use Natural Talent and Holster Speed Mods to play this Build
Is really fun compared to.... well, 90% of the rest of the Builds, which are
far more simple than this. You can play something similar using Wisp
and Glaive, casting Breach Surge and detonating the Glaive Mid-Air
Actually, that Build is much stronger since it does more DMG
with the Glaive Explosion and you are Invisible the whole time

Edited September 12, 2023 by Roble_Viejo

[Roble_Viejo]

hace 5 minutos, (PSN)haphazardlynamed dijo:

I'm assuming OP is using "tech" in the same context as a certain youtuber

meaning: exploitable obscure interaction, likely unintended result of sphagetti code that DE themselves isn't fully aware of

Have you ever heard the GameDev Term "Emergent Mechanics"? 

And is not even an "unintended" mechanic result of "spaghetti code" as you say
because I can do this exact same thing with the Glaive and it even does MORE damage

[quxier]

26 minutes ago, Roble_Viejo said:

Im defending this because I consider Warframe's Gameplay too simple
and I use different forms of Tech to have fun, Im not a Kuva Bramma + Wukong Main
Im a Xaku Player who uses the Zymos + Xata Whisper, who uses Ensare + Gaze + Exodia Contagion

18 minutes ago, Roble_Viejo said:

24 minutes ago, Pakaku said:

This game could use more skill-based action inputs, it would definitely make melee feel less monotonous and boring.

Exactly. I use Xaku with Natural Talent, Tauforged Yellow Archon Shard for Casting Speed,
just so I can perform an Ensare + Gaze + Exodia Contagion/Zymos before touching the Ground

Before Eximus update. Before final Xaku update. It was nice time. I've used "disarmer Xaku". Void proc (1st + e.g. nukor) to soft CC. Then I've rolling with shorter rolls (Amalgam mods used to do it) and disarming them constantly. In meantime I've used some killing or stuffs. It wasn't powerful (you could just gaze + afk with guns) but it was 'hectic' gameplay.

They removed Xaku's Gol being able to disarm enemies at max gun.

They added CC immunue enemies.

I don't remember when I've played like this.

36 minutes ago, -Krism- said:

1 hour ago, Roble_Viejo said:

which requires a Series of specific Parkour Movements, which means this is a form of TECH

You mean double jumping & heavy attack while aiming?

Oh noes! How complicated, my brain can't handle such complex instructions!

Plus you can have some option to just 'tap to aimglide/block'.

1 hour ago, Roble_Viejo said:

DE said it themselves: This requires a Series of Specific Parkour Movements to pull off

Why is Performing a Combo that requires the Player to press specific Button in the right order something "Bad"???
In any case its one of the very few examples on the type of Mechanics Warframe should have more of !

 

I'm probably not using 'heavy slide' (maybe Kullervo does it with 1st) but I'm 100% for keeping it. It makes game more interesting.

It's like with STyanax nerfs. Why? Because it's not intended. Who cares it was "fun" for some of us.

 

ps. change topic to Suggestion like someone said

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

You lost nothing really. It was very awkward to pull off, and required you to full equip melee.

But let's be real: the damage buffs that make Exodia Contagion stupid are still bugged to double dip.  Nobody give a rat's ass about Contagion without those damage buffs. Contagion not inheriting the heavy attack multiplier now is basically irrelevant while those bugged buffs are still a thing.

If you want to heavy attack launch Contagion you still can too. You even get the associated mod buffs.
Heck, you even got new "tech" (Read: bug) in the form of the neutral combo first hit's damage modifier affecting Exodia Contagion on certain melee classes.

Edited September 12, 2023 by (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom

[Roble_Viejo]

hace 17 minutos, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom dijo:

Nobody give a rat's ass about Contagion without those damage buffs

I do. And there is a lot of people who do aswel.
 

[Roble_Viejo]

hace 26 minutos, quxier dijo:

Why? Because it's not intended. Who cares it was "fun" for some of us.

Is not particularly strong. Requires more input that simply tapping 1 button.
And above it all: It is Fun. But it deserves to be removed because is not intended?

That will never make any sense to me. Actually, Bullet Jump was made into a 
proper Mechanic because it was an Unintended Emergent Mechanic that required Tech.
But because of Players Feedback it wasnt "fixed" but actually reinforced.

Why did DE change? Why is Player's Fun secondary to "Intended Mechanics"? 
When did Emergent Mechanics become Bugs to be Fixed? Why is this even an issue?

This is so weird to me, because unlike Wukong Clone not using Ammo or
Magus Lockdown freezing Eidolons this is not even game-breaking at all.

Glaive Prime can literally do Heavy Attacks Mid-Air for MORE damage
and you can do them as many times as you want, while Exodia Contagion
can only happen ONCE per Aim Glide... I dont get it honestly...

 

hace 31 minutos, quxier dijo:

ps. change topic to Suggestion like someone said

How do I do that? I cant only select "PC", "Community", and stuff like that
I cant find the option to flair this Post as "Suggestion"

[quxier]

1 minute ago, Roble_Viejo said:

34 minutes ago, quxier said:

ps. change topic to Suggestion like someone said

How do I do that? I cant only select "PC", "Community", and stuff like that
I cant find the option to flair this Post as "Suggestion"

You need to move topic - ask (report, afair, those 3 dots in right top corner) to move to "suggestion board".

3 minutes ago, Roble_Viejo said:

and you can do them as many times as you want, while Exodia Contagion
can only happen ONCE per Aim Glide... I dont get it honestly...

And you have to bullet/double jump.... which made this arcane pretty useless for me.