Nuke warframes should be nerfed

[Waeleto]

Last year, DE nerfed AOE weapons because they can clear the whole room and leave nothing for your squad to do and Grendel got a limit on how many enemies he can eat for the same reason 
Why are nuke warframes like saryn or thermal thunder garuda still able to nuke the entire room and leave nothing to the rest of the squad ? if DE knows that this playstyle isn't fun for anyone why does it still exist and not nerfed to the ground ?

[Joezone619]

Try steel path, see how many enemies they kill w/o AoE weapons.

[TARINunit9]

I don't disagree, but first DE needs to answer this question: should we be allowed to deal damage through walls or not? Before AoE weapons were "nerfed" they also rebalanced melee weapons with a specific focus on "maiming strike dealing damage through walls was too overpowered and stole all the kills."

Once they answer that, we can start talking about balance

[(PSN)robotwars7]

10 minutes ago, Waeleto said:

Why are nuke warframes like saryn or thermal thunder garuda still able to nuke the entire room and leave nothing to the rest of the squad ? if DE knows that this playstyle isn't fun for anyone why does it still exist and not nerfed to the ground ?

Saryn requires a setup and a little time before Spores get to the point where they are "nuking", Thermal Sunder is more of a Helminth issue, it just happens to be one of the best Helminth abilities. 

it's also difficult to balance so many powers, with new ones being added frequently on top of that.

[Pakaku]

This is why we need more enemy “quality” and less “quantity”. Reduce the mob count and add more specialty enemies to make up for it, which can’t be AoE-nuked as easily, but go down faster with single-target combat. 

[Mazifet]

14 minutes ago, Waeleto said:

this playstyle isn't fun for anyone

no? lmao?

nuking is and will always be fun. seeing my screen fill up with affinity makes my brain chemicals go weeee

also, try nuking in steel path. unless you have an extremely specific loadout then it won't be as efficient as just using weapons

[nslay]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

Saryn requires a setup and a little time before Spores get to the point where they are "nuking", Thermal Sunder is more of a Helminth issue, it just happens to be one of the best Helminth abilities. 

it's also difficult to balance so many powers, with new ones being added frequently on top of that.

Saryn's "setup", give me a break. That's a laugh... Khora needs "setup" too. And she can't even nuke the whole map! But she got the LoS nerf. For consistency, the LoS nerf should really apply to all frames, including Saryn. Saryn's "setup", much like Khora's, is so easy, it's not even a valid excuse.

[TaraTSoni]

Why not before commenting on this they play in solo mode so you can clean the rooms and not suffer nerf from someone who does not like AoE or AoE abilities

[Waeleto]

6 minutes ago, Mazifet said:

no? lmao?

nuking is and will always be fun. seeing my screen fill up with affinity makes my brain chemicals go weeee

also, try nuking in steel path. unless you have an extremely specific loadout then it won't be as efficient as just using weapons

Yes sure it's fun for you but not for the 3 other players in your squad

[3mptylord]

I am sorry that you are not having fun.

However, could you please try and propose solutions to the problem that would make the game more enjoyable for you in a way that isn't just "other people need to stop having fun - it's ruining my fun". 

[(XBOX)Hellsteeth30]

I'm a shotgun guy who likes shotgunning things.

I can't shotgun things if Duke Nukem several rooms over kills everything.

I've always seen nukes as a brown alert option.  Just standing in one spot pressing 4 or whichever the 'Frame's 'everything must dead' button is, seems very dull.

I've recently acquired the Bramma, Zarr and Kohm.  Guess which one I use?  Yep, and it has the delightful benefit of not making everybody quit after one round.

[TaraTSoni]

hace 13 minutos, (XBOX)Hellsteeth30 dijo:

Soy un tipo que dispara con escopetas y le gustan las cosas con escopetas.

No puedo disparar cosas si Duke Nukem varias habitaciones más arriba mata todo.

Siempre he visto las armas nucleares como una opción de alerta marrón. Simplemente pararse en un lugar presionando 4 o cualquiera que sea el botón 'Todo debe estar muerto' del Marco, parece muy aburrido.

Recientemente adquirí Bramma, Zarr y Kohm. ¿Adivina cuál uso? Sí, y tiene la maravillosa ventaja de no hacer que todos se rindan después de una ronda.

and you did not try the solo mode or guest mode and play with players who do not like AoE and do not impose, like a dictator, what should be done, many like fast and efficient and more in steel path

Edited September 17, 2023 by TaraTSoni

[(XBOX)Lady Ukita]

20 minutes ago, Waeleto said:

Yes sure it's fun for you but not for the 3 other players in your squad

I genuinely hate to be that guy, but this issue is easily solved by playing solo or with friends/clanmates. As annoying as it is to hear, you can't control the behavior or actions of public squads, but what you can control is the people you decide to play with. I won't deny that AOE is dominating a lot of missions, but the nerfs intended for them also caused collateral damage to less problematic weapons (Merciless getting nerfed, and the ammo economy getting nerfed as well).

[(XBOX)Hellsteeth30]

1 minute ago, TaraTSoni said:

and you did not try the only mode or guest mode and play with players who do not like AoE and do not impose, like a dictator, what should be done, many like fast and efficient and more in steel path

What is with this forum changing my posts into another language?  It was in Italian the other day....

Anyway.

Ultimately, I don't care that much what other people are doing.  I've spent many an SO standing in a corner hoovering affinity while one person presses the nuke button.

As it stands, nerfing is a negative and has negative connotations.  Just brings people down.

[Skoomaseller]

45 minutes ago, Waeleto said:

Yes sure it's fun for you but not for the 3 other players in your squad

nah it's fun, what isn't is defense

Edited September 17, 2023 by Skoomaseller

[Numerounius]

1 hour ago, Waeleto said:

Why are nuke warframes like saryn or thermal thunder garuda still able to nuke the entire room and leave nothing to the rest of the squad ? if DE knows that this playstyle isn't fun for anyone why does it still exist and not nerfed to the ground ?

The playstyle is still fun. I love tinkering around with trying to min-max a build. If you continually nerf them people will just continue to flock to the next best one. It is a vicious cycle that ends up with a destroyed game that has no sense of balance.

While there are some top dogs out there I do love trying to push them and create builds that are sometimes all about AOE but can sometimes become a nice mixture of trying to balance out the high AOE damage output with overall versatility. Take disruption for example, I use a nuke build there to gather keys since that can take a while but I still have to build it in such a way that it can also deal with demolyst units.

Edited September 17, 2023 by XHADgaming

[Alukawaii]

As another said, enemies that are resistant to aoe weapons and weak to single target would be ideal, just think of a new type of enemies, let's give a very simple example: very large grinner that has two shields with missile launchers, reduces the damage of aoe weapons by 90% but receive 80% more damage from single target weapons, here you have an enemy that counters aoe weapons

[Pizzarugi]

45 minutes ago, (XBOX)Lady Ukita said:

I genuinely hate to be that guy, but this issue is easily solved by playing solo or with friends/clanmates.

How'd that logic work for nuke weapons? Did DE tell players who didn't like them to #*!% off to solo or waste untold amount of time in LFG chat looking for people to do some stupid random mission?

Nah, they nerfed AoE weapons. They should nerf nuke frames while they're at it.

[Leqesai]

4 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

How'd that logic work for nuke weapons? Did DE tell players who didn't like them to #*!% off to solo or waste untold amount of time in LFG chat looking for people to do some stupid random mission?

Nah, they nerfed AoE weapons. They should nerf nuke frames while they're at it.

I keep seeing the "they nerfed AOE weapons" thing. What was the nerf ya'll are talking about? The firestorm nerf?

[CephalonCarnage]

10 minutes ago, Alukawaii said:

As another said, enemies that are resistant to aoe weapons and weak to single target would be ideal, just think of a new type of enemies, let's give a very simple example: very large grinner that has two shields with missile launchers, reduces the damage of aoe weapons by 90% but receive 80% more damage from single target weapons, here you have an enemy that counters aoe weapons

Or..

lets revisit the NewWar so its done as a war, lets have sentient enemies that are based much more on the lore of sentients. One where the little starfish that got shot healed itself and the missing part grew into a starfish too. Now apply that to sentient enemies, blow them into bits with your AoE... and shortly afterwards there are 3 or 4 sentient enemies where the original one stood. Whoops. Why not try nuking them again 😅 In game mechanics, blast damage death = new enemies, you could make them weaker like a tenet hound splits into puppies. You could make slah damage to them do heal-over-time procs instead of bleed damage. The gameplay is to encourage you to shoot them in the head/CPU. Adaptation was fine with the old game, but the new meta requires new meta enemies.

On command, the guards backed away from the cart and readied their weapons. Their leader took careful aim and fired a whisper round into the body of my creation. Two of the limbs tore off the frame revealing a glossy, gelatinous interior.

Silence gripped the dome as Tuvul shook his head. Then suddenly, the creature moved, convulsed, the hard surface started undulating. In a moment the wound closed and the thing was whole again. Beside it another machine had grown from its severed parts. Their surfaces had changed however - brighter, harder, resilient to whisper rounds now.

 

As for nuke frames, yes, I ve always thought the nuke applying to the entire map is a bit silly. I get why it goes through walls - performance issue more than anything. But they could alter the nuke abilities to apply in a cone in front of the warframe, decide how much of an angle it should have. 360 is just too much.

[sunderthefirmament]

7 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

I keep seeing the "they nerfed AOE weapons" thing. What was the nerf ya'll are talking about? The firestorm nerf?

Yeah.  With the reduced ammo for many AOE weapons, and the changes to ammo mutation mods.

 

AOE is still very strong though, so how effective the nerf was is open for debate.  I can only speak for myself, but I found the nerf effective enough that I think before I fire with my bramma, and occasionally run out of ammo.  But it didn't force me over to single target bullet hose type weapons or something.  I think that's okay.  When nerfs make something seem completely unviable, they've gone too far.

[Leqesai]

1 minute ago, sunderthefirmament said:

Yeah.  With the reduced ammo for many AOE weapons, and the changes to ammo mutation mods.

 

AOE is still very strong though, so how effective the nerf was is open for debate.  I can only speak for myself, but I found the nerf effective enough that I think before I fire with my bramma, and occasionally run out of ammo.  But it didn't force me over to single target bullet hose type weapons or something.  I think that's okay.  When nerfs make something seem completely unviable, they've gone too far.

Ahhhhhh

So the indirect nerf to AOE weapons that was a result of the direct nerf to exploitive behavior with Wukong's twin. Got it.

I've had zero issues spamming AOE weapons in missions same as I always have. Mostly because recovering ammo is brainlessly simple... Really disappointing to see people still complaining about the ammo nerf. Its been long enough that people should have figured out how to bypass the slight inconvenience of having to drop an ammo restore or update their loadout to mitigate ammo issues... 

[CephalonCarnage]

8 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

I keep seeing the "they nerfed AOE weapons" thing. What was the nerf ya'll are talking about? The firestorm nerf?

they reduced the area of effect, inclusing the firestorm mod. They also nerfed the max ammo and especially pickups, which disproportionately affected AoE guns that already had limited ammo caps. Many of them also had reduced cluster AoE (eg the bramma) and they also nerfed headshots being triggered from AoE damage.

all detailed here

 

[_Anise_]

3 hours ago, Waeleto said:

Last year, DE nerfed AOE weapons because they can clear the whole room and leave nothing for your squad

that isn't why they nerfed AOE weapons at all, they nerfed them specifically because the ammo pools were big enough it was too easy to spam a room with aoe without any thought or considerations to anything.

part of the reason they wanted to bring self damage back was so you couldn't just cast some grouping utility, aim at your feet to aoe clear the room.

tldr I think it was more about not clearing a room effortlessly !

Edited September 18, 2023 by _Anise_

[trst]

With how much Thermal Sunder is being abused it's only a matter of time before DE steps in and decides it's crowding out other subsume options and/or just generally problematic.

Beyond that I doubt much will ever be done with specific AOE/nuke frames unless they run into issues like old Ember or Wukong had. Where they're problematic to the game itself or are overused to the point of crowding out options. Though who knows if they'll ever go back and decide to take a proper look at AOE as a whole.