Railjack is still an unfinished buggy mess by the way (though 100x less buggy than on release!)

[Traumtulpe]

1 hour ago, Dunkelheit said:

So what exactly did I not understand? [...] I know, we live in a time where we want to get rid of sports, because children cannot take a loss.

Everything. Also you sound like a person who is consuming unhealthy media designed to make make you angry, I'd advise you not to if it isn't too late already.

Here is an example, since reading the thread seems too much to ask:

1 hour ago, Dunkelheit said:

After this he complained about having only 2 charges for the artillery, which you can rebuild and he did not know anything about.

6 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

Why do you think I should teleport to the forge, forge more artillery charges, teleport back to the front, and the continue to switch walking back and forth between pilot seat and artillery (where every single goddamn interaction with anything disables sprinting)? Why not just have 8 charges so if you aim perfectly you're good?

Edited September 21, 2023 by Traumtulpe

[Corvid]

1 hour ago, TARINunit9 said:

Yeah I've spent it myself, and then been full later without crafting 

On that note, I just remembered that I've had cases where my Dome Charges have refilled by themselves within a single mission. I didn't use a forge (and the cap didn't increase), but I did have one crewmate set to Engineer duty throughout the mission.

That said, it took a long time for this to happen (long enough for multiple POIs to be completed), so I'm not sure if it's because of the crewmate, or if the game is set to automatically restock things after a long delay.

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, Corvid said:

On that note, I just remembered that I've had cases where my Dome Charges have refilled by themselves within a single mission. I didn't use a forge (and the cap didn't increase), but I did have one crewmate set to Engineer duty throughout the mission.

That said, it took a long time for this to happen (long enough for multiple POIs to be completed), so I'm not sure if it's because of the crewmate, or if the game is set to automatically restock things after a long delay.

I knew I wasn't going crazy.

But I do have to test now: is the engineer restocking me DURING a mission? Or BETWEEN missions?

[Nekomian]

2 hours ago, Corvid said:

That said, it took a long time for this to happen (long enough for multiple POIs to be completed), so I'm not sure if it's because of the crewmate, or if the game is set to automatically restock things after a long delay.

From the wiki: "Dome Charges require roughly 6 minutes and 40 seconds to replenish on their own, one at a time." - https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Tunguska_Cannon

I haven't played railjack in a long while now, but from the above wording it does look like they just recharge extremely slowly. I've always just crafted them from the forge when I'm out, between cheap shot and that I rarely have to do much micromanagement of it.

[Voltage]

7 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

According to you, maybe. I for one enjoy it. Looks like micro-management is not the type of gameplay for you. You only want to do ONE thing at a time. Railjack 1.0 was full of micro-management and DE watered it down so much that it feels like I am playing the usual "muh power fantasy" Warframe.

Omitting the person you quoted, I agree. There is a difference between micromanagement and tedium, and the best version of Railjack micromanagement was a Railjack Demo in 2018 that we never got. What we have now is tedium because it's been watered down.

[RichardKam]

9小时前 , Traumtulpe 说:

What is the point here? The game might as well ask you to open the menu and enter the Konami code to reload your secondary gun (and reset your keybinds while you're doing this).

It brings back the fond memory of Castlevania Dawn of Sorrow. You need to draw (literally on the touch screen) a magical seal pattern to defeat the bosses.

That's how the game works.

[RichardKam]

Another comment on the crewmate AI.

In another post not long ago, people actually complain that crewmates were OP because they were more useful and competent than your random tenno. Gunners were practically aimbots with no cool down. Engineers can repair most stuff with fast response time. Pilot can shoot the radiator and is able to align your artillery to enemy crewship. That sort of things.

From my point of view, crewmates are the crutch for solo players, such that when you are playing solo they take most (not all) of the micromanagement task away.

But then the problem is crewmates AI. Too powerful, and they do all the jobs flawlessly  - crafting dome charge and shooting crewship for you, flying around and destroying stuff with 100% accuracy like an A-10 thunderbolt, killing all on board threat in planck's time, then what is your job? Sit back and watch? AI too weak, and we are back to railjack 1.0 in which you were doing 4 jobs at the same time - needlessly busy and complicated and not fun at all.

Imagine that in regular starchart missions you can summon 3 different specters to resemble a full squad, with AI so powerful that they can take interception towers, do spy vaults, call down excavators and defend them, all being done automatically. Is it fun? I don't think so. They are playing the game, not me.

We may discuss where the AI line should be drawn in a power scale of 1 to 10. But for me I can understand and accept the "flaw" in their effectiveness. Afterall I should be the one playing Railjack, not my crewmates. 

[trst]

So what about it is "buggy" or "unfinished"? Because everything OP listed are complaints, not bugs or unfinished features.

As is the only thing I really see being brought up is how some people want the AI to flawlessly play the entire mode for them. At that point just join a pub and AFK on one of the side guns.

[(XBOX)RaeOvSunshyn]

10 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

On the bright side, Warframe is an archipelago where you can literally ignore huge parts of the game you hate without it being a progression block... except a very few outliers.

On the cloudy side, Warframe is notorious for forcing you to do the things you don't like in order to do the things you do like. I am not a fan of Railjack -- for many of the OP's issues plus more -- but I am a fan of Liches. And for reasons that still remain a mystery to me today, DE suddenly tied Liches to Railjack. Even if I just wanted to have some fun helping others defeat their Liches, I'm not allowed to unless I have an active Lich myself -- and that's in spite of me having a hell of a killer Railjack.

But I s'pose that's one of them "outliers" you were speaking of.

[Hexerin]

The only problem I have with crew AI, is that you can't tell the pilot what you want to do. If you could setup conditional commands for the pilot, the system would be perfect (for my purposes) even with no other changes.

I don't have a pilot, as I run two gunners (these slots never change, they are in the guns 100% of the mission) and a defender (fights off boarders and repairs the ship). As such, I pilot the ship myself, and I already know there's a point where I won't be able to progress any further in the mode.

If I could set conditional commands for my pilot, however, I would convert that defender into a pilot when I have to head off the ship. The defender would only need one command while covering the pilot's chair: "Run away. Don't engage with pursuing ships, just run."

Sadly, Railjack is content that is no longer current, and thus will never see any real changes. As such, I will probably never finish it, because there's no way my ship will survive while I'm away from it in later missions. It already barely survives where I'm at with the content currently...

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

17 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

You can shoot them down, and then 3 more pop up right next to you. Infinitely. Might as well ignore them.

Crewmates can fix holes in the Railjack and shoot down fighters, and if they don't get shot to death while trying to repair the Railjack (without defending themselves at all) they do fine on defending the railjack. On Piloting, attacking objectives, and shooting down crewships they are useless.

The pilot cannot aim the Railjack at a crewship while you use the artillery. The gunner cannot hit objectives a lot of the time. They can't use the artillery or the forge (I don't think). Also the Railjack moves super slow even when crewed by a 5/5 pilot.

How is it not a bug when the NPC trying to shoot the objective is aiming 100m off target, permanently?

Why do you think I should teleport to the forge, forge more artillery charges, teleport back to the front, and the continue to switch walking back and forth between pilot seat and artillery (where every single goddamn interaction with anything disables sprinting)? Why not just have 8 charges so if you aim perfectly you're good?

Railjack is 3/10. It's just another game DE tried to copy into Warframe and failed.

Then you have a crappy setup and crew because my gunner is a beast, my pilot girl can find and hold the ship steady while I fire off artillery, my repair guy NEVER allows the ship to even get to half health and both my repair guy and pilot girl are absolute units on defense. 

Again, and it will always be this, it all depends on your setup and play style....or you just have some sort of bad copy of the game because you always run into issues bud. 

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)RaeOvSunshyn said:

On the cloudy side, Warframe is notorious for forcing you to do the things you don't like in order to do the things you do like. I am not a fan of Railjack -- for many of the OP's issues plus more -- but I am a fan of Liches. And for reasons that still remain a mystery to me today, DE suddenly tied Liches to Railjack. Even if I just wanted to have some fun helping others defeat their Liches, I'm not allowed to unless I have an active Lich myself -- and that's in spite of me having a hell of a killer Railjack.

But I s'pose that's one of them "outliers" you were speaking of.

Players asked for that Lich setup because that was the concept DE originally had when designing the Liches. Originally, the Lich was supposed to be a MUCH bigger and longer term threat, but they were made to be more easily accessible for the rewards. 

[(XBOX)Mastermitchel89]

12 hours ago, Dunkelheit said:

Please Sir, enlighten me. From my perspective, he complained about useless crewmates (which they are not, you just need to have some knowledge about their strength and weaknesses and try out or learn about it.

crewmates that are unreliable at 3 of their 4 jobs, have to be micromanaged like a baby in an asteroid field, when they do something properly its because you managed them enough that they finally work, or you do their job for them anyway

12 hours ago, Dunkelheit said:

Then he comlained about void storms, which he clearly did not understand.

Aoe Death ontop of Aoe Death, even a sturdy Frame struggles, or use a Necramech and Null void

12 hours ago, Dunkelheit said:

After this he complained about having only 2 charges for the artillery, which you can rebuild and he did not know anything about.

Firstly you need the specific resources to build these which means killing fighters, then you get those resources waste time running down getting Stocked up only 4 times running back up, If there is a crewmate pilot you suffer their stupid spin around and lose interest tactic, Also the fact that crewmates don't refill stock when 2 of their roles should do it, then if you run out its a second trip running down stocking up running up, (2-4 seconds of animations while this is going on) then finish off the remaining ships

Now you can start the objective

12 hours ago, Dunkelheit said:

Oh, and the railjack controls are apparently trash, because he somehow wants separate buttons between "warp speed" (whatever that is) and sprinting (what does sprinting have to do with Railjack?). But hey, the railjack is clearly too much space to cover and he obviously does not know that you can teleport in the Railjack.

The fact that boost is also unreliable and requires the pilot to constantly speed up and slow down to use the boost properly

12 hours ago, Dunkelheit said:

So what exactly did I not understand? Nearly every single of his arguments are easily remedied with tools in the game. I know, we live in a time where we want to get rid of sports, because children cannot take a loss. So if someone goes public with some baseless rambling with a very agressive tone I might add and I answer in the exact same tone, you obviously  feel the need to complain about me and protect him? Always open to criticism, so shoot.

No the tools did not help because the tools are broken and won't solve the issues that a player omnitool does better

Better Arguement how about we dig into the tool scrap pile and fix and clean them instead of ignoring it while its rusting away

Like most bugs all over the game

[Stafelund]

4 hours ago, RichardKam said:

It brings back the fond memory of Castlevania Dawn of Sorrow. You need to draw (literally on the touch screen) a magical seal pattern to defeat the bosses.

That's how the game works.

Man, memories. That one was just plain awful though, I'm glad that they ditched that in the next two Metroidvania titles. And years later someone released a romhack/patch that autocompletes it. 

[(PSN)rexis12]

AI crewmates isn't a 'Crutch' is a band aid on the gaping wound that Railjack is meant to be a 4 Player Co Op that they didn't have the balls to make mandatory 4 players because the other game mode that has mandatory co op, conclave, is so barren that one person complaining was enough for it to be considered a majority option.

Railjack wants to be a FTL game in a Borderlands, Left 4 Dead, Dynasty Warriors, whatever looter shooter game you want to compare Warframe to. And no duh, people who go into looter shooter don't want normally want to play Micromanaging details.

"But I like it."

Yeah and some people like spending several hours in Survival, but we don't look at those as the baseline for actual consideration.

 

Railjack needs to bite the bullet hard, make it mandatory 4 Players Co Op for the 'Proper' experience or let the AI actually do their job

Because the only difference between a Good AI Crewmates targeting reactors and blowing up ships, and a good player team mate is whether or not the picture on the right of the screen shows the AI crewmates or A Warframe.

[Hexerin]

7 minutes ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

co op, conclave

"Coop" and "Conclave" are mutually exclusive. Conclave is PvP. The definition of "Coop" exclusively applies to PvE.

[(PSN)rexis12]

5 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

"Coop" and "Conclave" are mutually exclusive. Conclave is PvP. The definition of "Coop" exclusively applies to PvE.

Conclave is mandatory Co Op, because it's a PVP battle that requires you to play with other r players. It doesn't have to BE mandatory Co Op and they can just allow bot matches with the same results, but nonetheless they obviously designed it to be Mandatory Co Op and thus you need to have at least other players with you.

Considering how Railjack was shown and just the general design, like that dumb instance of having what is essentially a Friendship Door while one of you is in Railjack and the other is in the ship, it's obvious that Railjack was designed to be Co-Op, especially when the many systems in the game.

But they didn't make it mandatory, presumably because the other mandatory co op mode was so abandoned that they didn't want that to happen to their shiny toy of the month, and thus Railjack AI was made to compensate for that fact that Railjack players might not have a constant 4 player party at all times.

Not that it helped considering how empty and barren Railjack nodes either way.

 

I'm still keeping with my idea that Railjack Ai should just be as best as they can, no matter if the argument is that it'll 'Play For You' because that's what happens in actual Co Op. What having Jimmy_124 with his Exclaibur destroying every Crewships while you $&*^ around at the steering wheels is fine, but if it's Rukh Rohg from Ticket it's bad and you should be ashamed?

[RichardKam]

33分钟前 , (PSN)rexis12 说:

AI crewmates isn't a 'Crutch' is a band aid on the gaping wound that Railjack is meant to be a 4 Player Co Op that they didn't have the balls to make mandatory 4 players because the other game mode that has mandatory co op, conclave, is so barren that one person complaining was enough for it to be considered a majority option.

Railjack wants to be a FTL game in a Borderlands, Left 4 Dead, Dynasty Warriors, whatever looter shooter game you want to compare Warframe to. And no duh, people who go into looter shooter don't want normally want to play Micromanaging details.

"But I like it."

Yeah and some people like spending several hours in Survival, but we don't look at those as the baseline for actual consideration.

 

Railjack needs to bite the bullet hard, make it mandatory 4 Players Co Op for the 'Proper' experience or let the AI actually do their job

Because the only difference between a Good AI Crewmates targeting reactors and blowing up ships, and a good player team mate is whether or not the picture on the right of the screen shows the AI crewmates or A Warframe.

How many times do I have to tell you people.

In Warframe, all contents must be solo-able. Co-op is optional. Hence crewmates.

You got it completely wrong. It was the other way around.

btw my crewmates are doing their aimbot job properly thanks.

[(PSN)rexis12]

Just now, RichardKam said:

In Warframe, all contents must be solo-able. Co-op is optional. Hence crewmates.

It sure as hell not designed that way considering the multiple targets and objective that's Railjack is built around.

It's been band aided to be solo-able but there's still a gaping problem of it being DESIGNED to be Co Op.

Just now, RichardKam said:

btw my crewmates are doing their aimbot job properly thanks.

"I don't have a problem with it, so it's not a problem."

You'd probably be the type of person that thinks Host Migrations aren't a problem because you don't run into them.

[RichardKam]

12分钟前 , (PSN)rexis12 说:

It sure as hell not designed that way considering the multiple targets and objective that's Railjack is built around.

It's been band aided to be solo-able but there's still a gaping problem of it being DESIGNED to be Co Op.

It was like saying interception was designed to be co op because there are 4 towers. 

Railjack can be done co op, or can be done solo via crewmates. The situation right now is the best middle ground we can have. 

The point is, no matter how "co op" a content is or designed to be, that said content must also be solo-able, one way or the other. Band aid. Crutch. Whatever. That's how this game works. DE had stopped making mandatory co op contents long time ago. Whether you like it or not is another issues.

And in case someone say,

"but we have concla -"

Empty game mode. No one cares.

23分钟前 , (PSN)rexis12 说:

"I don't have a problem with it, so it's not a problem."

You'd probably be the type of person that thinks Host Migrations aren't a problem because you don't run into them.

If you think crewmate AI is useless and is not doing their job properly, there is another post in which people were saying crewmates were OP and take the fun out of railjack. I have already made comment on this topic and will let you guys sort out the rest.

[Traumtulpe]

4 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Then you have a crappy setup and crew because my gunner is a beast, my pilot girl can find and hold the ship steady while I fire off artillery, my repair guy NEVER allows the ship to even get to half health and both my repair guy and pilot girl are absolute units on defense. 

Again, and it will always be this, it all depends on your setup and play style....or you just have some sort of bad copy of the game because you always run into issues bud.

You're just going to pretend these don't exist and Warframe is a perfect game without any bugs at all then? Well, if you insist on wearing a big red nose and a rainbow wig be my guest. Show me a video of your AI pilot pointing you at a crewship while you man the artillery - oh, you can't because your dog ate your Railjack? A real shame.

23 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

A picture says more than a thousand words:

14 hours ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Traumtulpe

[SneakyErvin]

2 hours ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

Conclave is mandatory Co Op, because it's a PVP battle that requires you to play with other r players. It doesn't have to BE mandatory Co Op and they can just allow bot matches with the same results, but nonetheless they obviously designed it to be Mandatory Co Op and thus you need to have at least other players with you.

Co-op is the opposite of PvP. Co-op refers to (coop)eration between players, hence why it has the acronym co-op. PvP already spells out that other players are required, hence why it is called Player vs Player, if you could play it solo it wouldnt be PvP. Adding bots wouldnt mean you play PvP, it would just be arena PvE, like the sedna arenas more or less, or index. Or if bots were to fill empty slots you'd have PvPvE but never co-op.

1 hour ago, Traumtulpe said:

You're just going to pretend these don't exist and Warframe is a perfect game without any bugs at all then? Well, if you insist on wearing a big red nose and a rainbow wig be my guest. Show me a video of your AI pilot pointing you at a crewship while you man the artillery - oh, you can't because your dog ate your Railjack? A real shame.

Why would you ever need your AI pilot to point you at a crewship when the crewship is likely already dead infront of you as you head to the arti spot? Unless of course you want to play nearly fully automated missions that is. The pilot is never a good choice if you wanna do things efficiently and as much as you complain about little things effeciency seems like a goal for you. So relying on the pilot would already be a drawback, since they dont poop on enemy engines or ram/aim at other weakpoints like shield drones etc. So no matter when you go to the arti, you likely already will look straight at an immobile crewship.

Also, regarding your arti charge complaint. Are you aware that you only ever need to craft them in one mission if you plan to run many?

[(PSN)rexis12]

2 hours ago, RichardKam said:

If you think crewmate AI is useless and is not doing their job properly

I KNOW they're not doing their job properly.

Just because things are fine on your end doesn't mean it's fine everywhere else.

Like I said, you'd be the type of person to say Host Migrations are fine because you never experienced it.

[SneakyErvin]

4 minutes ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

I KNOW they're not doing their job properly.

Just because things are fine on your end doesn't mean it's fine everywhere else.

Like I said, you'd be the type of person to say Host Migrations are fine because you never experienced it.

But if the crew works for one person they should work the same for all. If they dont it is really a "you" issue regarding building them and/or picking the right ones. This isnt like host migs that are affected by external sources, these are simple NPCs that work the same for everyone using them, since when you use them you are in the end playing the game solo, with no external impact that can change their behavior.

[(PSN)rexis12]

2 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

But if the crew works for one person they should work the same for all. If they dont it is really a "you" issue regarding building them and/or picking the right ones. This isnt like host migs that are affected by external sources, these are simple NPCs that work the same for everyone using them, since when you use them you are in the end playing the game solo, with no external impact that can change their behavior.

 

17 hours ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

btw this is one of the big reasons that I don't like to play Railjack.

Knowing that my progress can stall because AI bugs.

Look if people can, rightfully, complain about how bad defection, operative defense and how bad their AI can be. The fact that when Railjack ai is complained about it's always pushed aside is dumb as all hell.

It's bad AI that bugs the #*!% out and stalls your mission, which should not happen and can and has ruined perception of Railjack.

 

It's like the concept of Warframe being a buggy mess with the functions of the mechanics failing is an anomaly to all of y'all.

I'd prefer if they didn't and just functioned all the time, but I guess wanting the mechanics of a game to actually function properly is too much to ask for.