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Abyss of Dagath - Dev Workshop: System Changes and General Quality of Life

[DE]Taylor

By [DE]Taylor,
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Monolake

Monolake

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Pretty good overall. Except the nerf for unmoded stats on mechs and archwings  - most people dont even potato them to fully mod so they will suffer from this change at least on some stats.

Shield-gating change will not have the desired effect, since you need to be able to almost instantly fully restore your shields to survive high levels, the 'max shield' modding will remain useless, Shieldgate users will just have to sacrifice a slot for this new corrupted mod, so its a nerf to a build.
But its still a good change for new-average players (the overwhelming majority) who never play highlevel and never moded for shield-gating, since shields and their mods become stronger overall.

 

 

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Sh0ckwaveFlash

Sh0ckwaveFlash

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Oof, this is a minor stat nerf to triple umbral builds. See triple umbral Rhino as example. Before, 1,070 health; after, 1,036. Also energy pool nerf with Primed or Archon Flow. Before, 425 energy. After, 420. Odd numbers to end at, especially considering I won't be able to round up to 500 with a tau blue max energy Archon shard. Please consider at least tweaking the numbers slightly to not be a nerf in this situation. Even if not usually noticeable in gameplay no one wants to see their setup be worse than it was before. Cheers

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BlunterCheese9

BlunterCheese9

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9 hours ago, [DE]Taylor said:

Swap Incarnon Evolutions in the Arsenal

You heard it here! We’re adding the ability to swap around your Incarnon Evolutions in your Arsenal to reduce the friction for Incarnon testing and playing around with your builds.

Note: You will still need to visit Cavalero to unlock each Evolution, but once that’s done, you can swap to your heart’s delight from the comfort of your Orbiter.

I assume this is planned, but to be sure: please also include the ability to swap evolutions in the Simulacrum as well.

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AJAL8000

AJAL8000

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Could you provide some additional statistics? So I don't feel like it's just a nerf for the majority of Warframes that depend on Shield-Gating to survive?

I feel that if you put "Immune to states with full shields" or "Remove states from the Warframe with full shields". It would be nice, since it could easily be replaced by Rolling Guard in several Warframe builds that don't even have a way to get rid of states.

This way it doesn't feel like we're losing a mod slot when taking advantage of Shield-Gating ussually requires the Augur Set mod and Brief Respite.

Or maybe "This mod gives a certain amount of Shields per amount of energy spent." So we can still remove a mod from the Augur set?

I mean, put something else in there, which is not a direct nerf to the builds of various Warframes, it's not like Shield-Gating allows us to be immortal at no cost on all Warframes.

Very few Warframes will be able to take advantage of the Shield-Gating mechanic without this mod.7869590ea1281b2ee7a4dd3548cbe4bc.png?ex=

Edited by AJAL8000
Very few Warframes will be able to take advantage of the Shield-Gating mechanic without this mod.
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1manApocalypse

1manApocalypse

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2 hours ago, x-cessive said:

Break Narmer Mission Improvements:

One of the biggest frustrations in the Break Narmer Missions for me is, when I get the challenge to do the mission in 15 minutes. It is impossible to do the missions in 15 minutes and also finish all the other challenges in the same run. So whenever this comes up, you immediately know, that you have to do it twice, if you want all to complete all 6 challenges.

Maybe the improved movement speed might help with this, but i doubt it. IMO the 15 minute challenge should be removed, but with the improved movement speed, it might also be enough to increase the time limit to 20 minutes.

 

It's absolutely possible to complete all objectives in one run with the 15m challenge, it depends on the specific combination of challenges and your route, but i've managed to do it most of the time.

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Monolake

Monolake

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4 hours ago, TeenieSlasher said:

It's exactly the opposite:
Shieldgating is the only survivability tool for anything above base steel path. 

You can't mod for health and armor, because the enemy damage values FAR exceed what you can achieve, so if you have 50hp or 5000hp makes literally no difference at all when approaching around enemy lvl 1500 and that is based upon SINGLE hits, not accounting for multiple hits. For the very same reason, shield stacking is beyond useless, even if they would buff the shield DR from 25% or 50% to 75% or more. It's all the same, when the enemy bullet damage exceeds hundreds of thousands of damage compared to your measly 1-2k shield/health you could cobble up by sacrificing all your warframe slots for those values.

And this is what this boils down to:

Nothing will change at all in the meta, because there are literally no options other than shieldgating to play in those enemy level ranges/level cap. The bottomline is though, all frames with no shield gimmick (speaking hildryn, protea, condem etc.) are stripped by 1 whole warframe mod slot, which are already VERY tight on every frame, because they need to slot in the new mod to revert shield gating to it's current form. 

Now, before those andies roll in with their argument of "bla bla but only 0.1% of players play this content".

That is still 0,1% of us that get royally screwed over for no reason at all. There is no compensation for the nerf, no alternate way to go around it, it's just straight up you lose one warframe mod slot across the board and they didn't even care to make the shield gate mode an exilus mod to soften the blow a little bit.

Everyone is using Revenant cheatskin invul for high level so all the talk about balancing shields and 'omg how to survive lvl1k+' is moot anyway. Why even tryhard and gimp yourself with this new corrupted mod when you can switch on god mode with a single button press. Also invis exists.
Shieldgating remains for masochists. DE balancing remains absent.

Edited by Monolake
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1manApocalypse

1manApocalypse

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1 hour ago, Sh0ckwaveFlash said:

Oof, this is a minor stat nerf to triple umbral builds. See triple umbral Rhino as example. Before, 1,070 health; after, 1,036. Also energy pool nerf with Primed or Archon Flow. Before, 425 energy. After, 420. Odd numbers to end at, especially considering I won't be able to round up to 500 with a tau blue max energy Archon shard. Please consider at least tweaking the numbers slightly to not be a nerf in this situation. Even if not usually noticeable in gameplay no one wants to see their setup be worse than it was before. Cheers

Tbf with the example of Rhino, you don't need to mod triple umbra on him anyway, just press 2 and health is useless.

Edited by 1manApocalypse
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Sh0ckwaveFlash

Sh0ckwaveFlash

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4 minutes ago, 1manApocalypse said:

Tbf with the example of Rhino, you don't need to mod on him anyway, just press 2 and health is useless.

Not anymore - adaptation builds stacks during iron skin now, and adaptation damage resistance applies only to health, not overguard or shields. This lets you health tank in between 2nd ability casts, in addition to making great utility out of triple umbral bonuses. 

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L3512

L3512

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Posted
5 hours ago, MobyTheDuck said:

Yeah, I can respect that. My problem here is that this Shield Gate exploit was used to AFK leech, I've seen many people using this to be able to AFK in a corner of the map when paired with a slow or stun.

This is impossible and clearly a lie.

 

3 hours ago, TeenieSlasher said:

Yea and I just said, in a best case scenario, the whole scaling structure of the game would be intact, but it isn't, it never was and I begin to doubt it ever will be, because DE always decides on the implementation of disrupting bandaids instead of finally tackling the real issue with the game for so many years now.

That's why my point of view is, if you don't have an idea how the fix the game as a whole, do not touch the other parts that keep it working.

Also, it is not just a NG+ mode, you earn Steel Essence there EXCLUSIVELY, so it is an INTEGRAL part of the game for many players (teshin weekly shop, weekly kuva and relic income). Also, playing level cap content is just pure fun and getting some frames (nearly?) erased from that makes no sense from any perspective. There are people who don't like invis and invincibility frames, because they find satisfaction in expressing skill, so why would you deny them that, if no one else is even affected by changes like that?

No point replying to SDGDen, they've admitted multiple times to not playing SP and have never understood how shield gating worked.

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[DE]Taylor

[DE]Taylor

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4 hours ago, Darthak13 said:

Soooo, Lavos got the nerf to health, and he seems to be the only one? Is this a typo?

I double checked my resources and yes, it was in fact a typo! Thank you for the callout. I've updated the post with the correct values:

LAVOS
Health: Base Rank - 340 (from 200) / Max Rank - 740 (from 600)
Shields: Base Rank - 170 (from 100) / Max Rank - 370 (from 300)
Armor: Base Rank - 575 (from 450) / Max Rank - 675 (from 675)
Energy: Base Rank - 0 (from 0) / Max Rank - 0 (from 0)

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Ziggums

Ziggums

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Are archon shards (HP/Armor buffs) still an additive bonus at the end? the armor/health bonus from azure archon shards ordinarily is so small that theyre considered not worth it compared to others in most situations, is this still the case? or are azure archon shards multiplied by mods now as well?

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ShogunGunshow

ShogunGunshow

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I feel like fixing the health/energy/armor mods to display accurate to actual stats but leaving warframe buff abilities to still mod base stats is going to lead to the same amount of confusion, and maybe worse because it's now inconsistent.

And yeah, what about archon stuff? With the modifiers for the mods being so much lower, it actually wouldn't be as nuts a consideration as it would have been before. I kinda doubt it, though.

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[DE]Taylor

[DE]Taylor

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2 hours ago, (NSW)Probably_Asleep said:

Ran the numbers:

frame EHP (no Mods) EHP (w/ Mods)
ASH 1489 (+489) 3367 (+493)
ASH PRIME 1827 (+615) 4339 (+636)
ATLAS 1696 (+546) 4563 (+506)
ATLAS PRIME 2843 (+887) 7853 (+772)
BANSHEE 1240 (+440) 2738 (+493)
BANSHEE PRIME 1277 (+452) 2886 (+512)
BARUUK 1193 (+436) 2731 (+509)
BARUUK PRIME 1434 (+540) 3316 (+654)
CALIBAN 2028 (+753) 4771 (+880)
CHROMA 1566 (+516) 4045 (+506)
CHROMA PRIME 1665 (+540) 4440 (+512)
CITRINE 1682 (+539) 4247 (+513)
EMBER 1277 (+452) 2886 (+512)
EMBER PRIME 1497 (+547) 3389 (+639)
EQUINOX 1277 (+452) 2886 (+512)
EQUINOX PRIME 1453 (+491) 3402 (+519)
EXCALIBUR 1406 (+481) 3404 (+512)
EXCALIBUR PRIME 1499 (+499) 3774 (+493)
EXCALIBUR UMBRA 1499 (+499) 3774 (+493)
FROST 1869 (+669) 4514 (+740)
FROST PRIME 2059 (+759) 4894 (+873)
GARA 1307 (+457) 3009 (+506)
GARA PRIME 1482 (+494) 3557 (+501)
GARUDA 1499 (+499) 3774 (+493)
GARUDA PRIME 1628 (+528) 4292 (+493)
GAUSS 1708 (+633) 3873 (+746)
GRENDEL 2747 (+372) 8319 (-863)
GYRE 1800 (+700) 3858 (+873)
HARROW 1708 (+633) 3873 (+746)
HARROW PRIME 1898 (+723) 4253 (+879)
HILDRYN 4134 (+1584) 8856 (+2396)
HILDRYN PRIME 4519 (+1702) 9814 (+2517)
HYDROID 1596 (+571) 3784 (+645)
HYDROID PRIME 2028 (+753) 4771 (+880)
INAROS 3888 (+38) 11232 (-665)
INAROS PRIME 5427 (+1402) 15678 (+3241)
IVARA 1118 (+418) 2432 (+502)
IVARA PRIME 1516 (+597) 3284 (+763)
KHORA 1655 (+536) 4208 (+516)
KHORA PRIME 1930 (+649) 4929 (+666)
KULLERVO 3341 (+253) 11253 (+772)
LAVOS 2495 (+145) 7420 (-819)
LIMBO 1060 (+360) 2378 (+380)
LIMBO PRIME 1277 (+452) 2886 (+512)
LOKI 938 (+338) 2072 (+389)
LOKI PRIME 966 (+347) 2184 (+403)
MAG 1488 (+588) 3172 (+749)
MAG PRIME 1647 (+622) 3626 (+759)
MESA 1188 (+388) 2701 (+389)
MESA PRIME 1285 (+411) 3020 (+407)
MIRAGE 1005 (+365) 2220 (+424)
MIRAGE PRIME 1305 (+485) 2980 (+577)
NEKROS 1170 (+410) 2598 (+452)
NEKROS PRIME 1647 (+622) 3626 (+759)
NEZHA 1335 (+523) 3290 (+641)
NEZHA PRIME 1436 (+548) 3693 (+656)
NIDUS 1388 (+263) 4440 (+444)
NIDUS PRIME 1788 (+344) 5850 (+627)
NOVA 1060 (+360) 2378 (+380)
NOVA PRIME 1277 (+452) 2886 (+512)
NYX 1240 (+440) 2738 (+493)
NYX PRIME 1467 (+542) 3266 (+645)
OBERON 1492 (+498) 3557 (+512)
OBERON PRIME 1577 (+521) 3898 (+529)
OCTAVIA 1127 (+377) 2649 (+392)
OCTAVIA PRIME 1307 (+457) 3009 (+506)
PROTEA 1647 (+622) 3626 (+759)
REVENANT 2207 (+882) 4746 (+1139)
REVENANT PRIME 2387 (+962) 5106 (+1252)
RHINO 1776 (+651) 4144 (+759)
RHINO PRIME 1838 (+663) 4391 (+746)
SARYN 1577 (+521) 3898 (+529)
SARYN PRIME 1693 (+543) 4363 (+509)
SEVAGOTH 1237 (+427) 2869 (+464)
SEVAGOTH'S SHADOW 1516 (+758) 4203 (+831)
STYANAX 2547 (+997) 5747 (+1246)
TITANIA 1240 (+440) 2738 (+493)
TITANIA PRIME 1414 (+483) 3247 (+526)
TRINITY 1240 (+440) 2738 (+493)
TRINITY PRIME 1647 (+622) 3626 (+759)
VALKYR 1707 (+607) 4968 (+627)
VALKYR PRIME 1837 (+637) 5486 (+627)
VAUBAN 1127 (+377) 2649 (+392)
VAUBAN PRIME 1369 (+469) 3256 (+493)
VOLT 1610 (+610) 3478 (+740)
VOLT PRIME 1647 (+622) 3626 (+759)
VORUNA 1665 (+530) 4070 (+497)
WISP 1158 (+383) 2773 (+386)
WISP PRIME 1369 (+469) 3256 (+493)
WUKONG 1785 (+560) 4551 (+512)
WUKONG PRIME 1982 (+639) 5036 (+605)
XAKU 1354 (+574) 3161 (+876)
YARELI 1610 (+610) 3478 (+740)
ZEPHYR 1859 (+659) 4107 (+740)
ZEPHYR PRIME 1915 (+677) 4329 (+768)

So for the most part the frames are all getting a boost to their EHP, but Grendel, Inaros, and Lavos lose EHP after Mods*.
*-The Mods in this case are a max-rank Vitality, Redirection, and Steel Fiber

If you want to see the FULL data dump, reveal contents...

  Reveal hidden contents

And for a key on field names:

  Reveal hidden contents

I also calculated what I call "Naked EHP" (your EHP after your shields have been stripped) both with and without the three big mods. In that case Lavos was the only one losing "Naked EHP" when no mods were equipped, and Grendel was the only one losing "Naked EHP" when mods were equipped.

But in conclusion, it's generally positive for all frames.

Thank you for sharing! I did a sense check with the working document and it looks like I had improperly transcribed the following values:

Grendel - Max Rank Health: 1295
Inaros - Max Rank Health: 2310
Inaros Prime - Max Rank Health: 2415
Kullervo - Max Rank Health: 1205 
Lavos - Max Rank Health: 740
Xaku - Max Rank Health: 359

As this is a dev workshop, values are still subject to change up until release, but I figured it was worth updating due to the valid discrepancies you pointed out. :) 

edit: the main post has also been updated with changed values in bold, for clarity!

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[DE]Taylor

[DE]Taylor

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2 hours ago, staranow said:

@[DE]Taylor I don't see Nezha Prime Energy listed, was there any changes to it?

AH - fixed! Post is updated now. To save you the search:

NEZHA PRIME
Health: Base Rank - 265 (from 125) / Max Rank - 465 (from 375)
Shields: Base Rank - 85 (from 50) / Max Rank - 280 (from 150)
Armor: Base Rank - 265 (from 250)
Energy: Base Rank - 175 (from 150) / Max Rank - 225 (from 225)

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ShogunGunshow

ShogunGunshow

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Posted
21 minutes ago, ShogunGunshow said:

I feel like fixing the health/energy/armor mods to display accurate to actual stats but leaving warframe buff abilities to still mod base stats is going to lead to the same amount of confusion, and maybe worse because it's now inconsistent.

And yeah, what about archon stuff? With the modifiers for the mods being so much lower, it actually wouldn't be as nuts a consideration as it would have been before. I kinda doubt it, though.

No wait I'm f'ing high lol there's no way because armor mod still is pretty much unchanged and giving people the ability to get 2k armor from armor shards + 1 mod is a little too much.

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Sh0ckwaveFlash

Sh0ckwaveFlash

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Posted
3 hours ago, (NSW)Probably_Asleep said:

Ran the numbers:

frame EHP (no Mods) EHP (w/ Mods)
ASH 1489 (+489) 3367 (+493)
ASH PRIME 1827 (+615) 4339 (+636)
ATLAS 1696 (+546) 4563 (+506)
ATLAS PRIME 2843 (+887) 7853 (+772)
BANSHEE 1240 (+440) 2738 (+493)
BANSHEE PRIME 1277 (+452) 2886 (+512)
BARUUK 1193 (+436) 2731 (+509)
BARUUK PRIME 1434 (+540) 3316 (+654)
CALIBAN 2028 (+753) 4771 (+880)
CHROMA 1566 (+516) 4045 (+506)
CHROMA PRIME 1665 (+540) 4440 (+512)
CITRINE 1682 (+539) 4247 (+513)
EMBER 1277 (+452) 2886 (+512)
EMBER PRIME 1497 (+547) 3389 (+639)
EQUINOX 1277 (+452) 2886 (+512)
EQUINOX PRIME 1453 (+491) 3402 (+519)
EXCALIBUR 1406 (+481) 3404 (+512)
EXCALIBUR PRIME 1499 (+499) 3774 (+493)
EXCALIBUR UMBRA 1499 (+499) 3774 (+493)
FROST 1869 (+669) 4514 (+740)
FROST PRIME 2059 (+759) 4894 (+873)
GARA 1307 (+457) 3009 (+506)
GARA PRIME 1482 (+494) 3557 (+501)
GARUDA 1499 (+499) 3774 (+493)
GARUDA PRIME 1628 (+528) 4292 (+493)
GAUSS 1708 (+633) 3873 (+746)
GRENDEL 2747 (+372) 8319 (-863)
GYRE 1800 (+700) 3858 (+873)
HARROW 1708 (+633) 3873 (+746)
HARROW PRIME 1898 (+723) 4253 (+879)
HILDRYN 4134 (+1584) 8856 (+2396)
HILDRYN PRIME 4519 (+1702) 9814 (+2517)
HYDROID 1596 (+571) 3784 (+645)
HYDROID PRIME 2028 (+753) 4771 (+880)
INAROS 3888 (+38) 11232 (-665)
INAROS PRIME 5427 (+1402) 15678 (+3241)
IVARA 1118 (+418) 2432 (+502)
IVARA PRIME 1516 (+597) 3284 (+763)
KHORA 1655 (+536) 4208 (+516)
KHORA PRIME 1930 (+649) 4929 (+666)
KULLERVO 3341 (+253) 11253 (+772)
LAVOS 2495 (+145) 7420 (-819)
LIMBO 1060 (+360) 2378 (+380)
LIMBO PRIME 1277 (+452) 2886 (+512)
LOKI 938 (+338) 2072 (+389)
LOKI PRIME 966 (+347) 2184 (+403)
MAG 1488 (+588) 3172 (+749)
MAG PRIME 1647 (+622) 3626 (+759)
MESA 1188 (+388) 2701 (+389)
MESA PRIME 1285 (+411) 3020 (+407)
MIRAGE 1005 (+365) 2220 (+424)
MIRAGE PRIME 1305 (+485) 2980 (+577)
NEKROS 1170 (+410) 2598 (+452)
NEKROS PRIME 1647 (+622) 3626 (+759)
NEZHA 1335 (+523) 3290 (+641)
NEZHA PRIME 1436 (+548) 3693 (+656)
NIDUS 1388 (+263) 4440 (+444)
NIDUS PRIME 1788 (+344) 5850 (+627)
NOVA 1060 (+360) 2378 (+380)
NOVA PRIME 1277 (+452) 2886 (+512)
NYX 1240 (+440) 2738 (+493)
NYX PRIME 1467 (+542) 3266 (+645)
OBERON 1492 (+498) 3557 (+512)
OBERON PRIME 1577 (+521) 3898 (+529)
OCTAVIA 1127 (+377) 2649 (+392)
OCTAVIA PRIME 1307 (+457) 3009 (+506)
PROTEA 1647 (+622) 3626 (+759)
REVENANT 2207 (+882) 4746 (+1139)
REVENANT PRIME 2387 (+962) 5106 (+1252)
RHINO 1776 (+651) 4144 (+759)
RHINO PRIME 1838 (+663) 4391 (+746)
SARYN 1577 (+521) 3898 (+529)
SARYN PRIME 1693 (+543) 4363 (+509)
SEVAGOTH 1237 (+427) 2869 (+464)
SEVAGOTH'S SHADOW 1516 (+758) 4203 (+831)
STYANAX 2547 (+997) 5747 (+1246)
TITANIA 1240 (+440) 2738 (+493)
TITANIA PRIME 1414 (+483) 3247 (+526)
TRINITY 1240 (+440) 2738 (+493)
TRINITY PRIME 1647 (+622) 3626 (+759)
VALKYR 1707 (+607) 4968 (+627)
VALKYR PRIME 1837 (+637) 5486 (+627)
VAUBAN 1127 (+377) 2649 (+392)
VAUBAN PRIME 1369 (+469) 3256 (+493)
VOLT 1610 (+610) 3478 (+740)
VOLT PRIME 1647 (+622) 3626 (+759)
VORUNA 1665 (+530) 4070 (+497)
WISP 1158 (+383) 2773 (+386)
WISP PRIME 1369 (+469) 3256 (+493)
WUKONG 1785 (+560) 4551 (+512)
WUKONG PRIME 1982 (+639) 5036 (+605)
XAKU 1354 (+574) 3161 (+876)
YARELI 1610 (+610) 3478 (+740)
ZEPHYR 1859 (+659) 4107 (+740)
ZEPHYR PRIME 1915 (+677) 4329 (+768)

So for the most part the frames are all getting a boost to their EHP, but Grendel, Inaros, and Lavos lose EHP after Mods*.
*-The Mods in this case are a max-rank Vitality, Redirection, and Steel Fiber

If you want to see the FULL data dump, reveal contents...

  Reveal hidden contents
frame bE(o) mE(o) +Flow (old) bH(o) mH(o) +Vitality (old) bS(o) mS(o) +Redirection (old) bA(o) mA(o) +Steel Fiber (old) EHP (old) Mod EHP (old) bE(n) mE(n) +Flow (new) Energy +/- bH(n) mH(n) +Vitality (new) Health +/- bS(n) mS(n) +Redirection (new) Shields +/- bA(n) mA(n) +Steel Fiber (new) Armor +/- EHP (new) EHP +/- Mod EHP (new) Mod EHP +/-
ASH 100 150 300 150 450 1110 100 300 740 100 100 210 1000 2873.666667 100 150 300 0 355 555 1110 0 170 370 740 0 105 105 210 0 1489.25 489.25 3367 493.3333333
ASH PRIME 100 150 300 150 450 1110 125 375 925 175 175 367.5 1212.5 3703.083333 100 150 300 0 355 555 1110 0 265 465 930 5 185 185 370 2.5 1827.25 614.75 4339 635.9166667
ATLAS 150 225 450 100 300 740 100 300 740 450 450 945 1150 4057.666667 175 225 450 0 170 370 740 0 170 370 740 0 475 475 950 5 1695.833333 545.8333333 4563.333333 505.6666667
ATLAS PRIME 175 263 525.5 175 525 1295 150 450 1110 475 475 997.5 1956.25 7080.875 215 265 530 4.5 450 650 1300 5 355 555 1110 0 500 500 1000 2.5 2843.333333 887.0833333 7853.333333 772.4583333
BANSHEE 150 225 450 100 300 740 100 300 740 100 100 210 800 2244.666667 175 225 450 0 170 370 740 0 170 370 740 0 105 105 210 0 1239.5 439.5 2738 493.3333333
BANSHEE PRIME 175 263 525.5 100 300 740 100 300 740 125 125 262.5 825 2374.166667 215 265 530 4.5 170 370 740 0 170 370 740 0 135 135 270 7.5 1276.5 451.5 2886 511.8333333
BARUUK 200 300 600 75 225 555 100 300 740 175 175 367.5 756.25 2221.541667 200 300 600 0 80 280 560 5 170 370 740 0 185 185 370 2.5 1192.666667 436.4166667 2730.666667 509.125
BARUUK PRIME 200 300 600 75 225 555 125 375 925 225 225 472.5 893.75 2662.458333 200 300 600 0 80 280 560 5 265 465 930 5 240 240 480 7.5 1434 540.25 3316 653.5416667
CALIBAN 125 188 375.5 100 300 740 175 525 1295 275 275 577.5 1275 3891.166667 140 190 380 4.5 170 370 740 0 450 650 1300 5 290 290 580 2.5 2027.666667 752.6666667 4770.666667 879.5
CHROMA 150 225 450 100 300 740 100 300 740 350 350 735 1050 3539.666667 175 225 450 0 170 370 740 0 170 370 740 0 370 370 740 5 1566.333333 516.3333333 4045.333333 505.6666667
CHROMA PRIME 200 300 600 100 300 740 100 300 740 425 425 892.5 1125 3928.166667 200 300 600 0 170 370 740 0 170 370 740 0 450 450 900 7.5 1665 540 4440 511.8333333
CITRINE 120 180 360 135 405 999 100 300 740 250 250 525 1142.5 3733.916667 130 180 360 0 300 500 1000 1 170 370 740 0 265 265 530 5 1681.666667 539.1666667 4246.666667 512.75
EMBER 150 225 450 100 300 740 100 300 740 125 125 262.5 825 2374.166667 175 225 450 0 170 370 740 0 170 370 740 0 135 135 270 7.5 1276.5 451.5 2886 511.8333333
EMBER PRIME 150 225 450 100 300 740 125 375 925 150 150 315 950 2750.333333 175 225 450 0 170 370 740 0 265 465 930 5 160 160 320 5 1497.333333 547.3333333 3389.333333 639
EQUINOX 150 225 450 100 300 740 100 300 740 125 125 262.5 825 2374.166667 175 225 450 0 170 370 740 0 170 370 740 0 135 135 270 7.5 1276.5 451.5 2886 511.8333333
EQUINOX PRIME 165 248 495.5 125 375 925 100 300 740 150 150 315 962.5 2882.916667 200 250 500 4.5 265 465 930 5 170 370 740 0 160 160 320 5 1453 490.5 3402 519.0833333
EXCALIBUR 100 150 300 100 300 740 100 300 740 225 225 472.5 925 2892.166667 100 150 300 0 170 370 740 0 170 370 740 0 240 240 480 7.5 1406 481 3404 511.8333333
EXCALIBUR PRIME 150 225 450 100 300 740 100 300 740 300 300 630 1000 3280.666667 175 225 450 0 170 370 740 0 170 370 740 0 315 315 630 0 1498.5 498.5 3774 493.3333333
EXCALIBUR UMBRA 150 225 450 100 300 740 100 300 740 300 300 630 1000 3280.666667 175 225 450 0 170 370 740 0 170 370 740 0 315 315 630 0 1498.5 498.5 3774 493.3333333
FROST 100 150 300 100 300 740 150 450 1110 300 300 630 1200 3774 100 150 300 0 170 370 740 0 355 555 1110 0 315 315 630 0 1868.5 668.5 4514 740
FROST PRIME 100 150 300 100 300 740 175 525 1295 300 300 630 1300 4020.666667 100 150 300 0 170 370 740 0 450 650 1300 5 315 315 630 0 2058.5 758.5 4894 873.3333333
GARA 150 225 450 100 300 740 100 300 740 150 150 315 850 2503.666667 175 225 450 0 170 370 740 0 170 370 740 0 160 160 320 5 1307.333333 457.3333333 3009.333333 505.6666667
GARA PRIME 150 225 450 120 360 888 100 300 740 190 190 399 988 3055.706667 175 225 450 0 245 445 890 2 170 370 740 0 200 200 400 1 1481.666667 493.6666667 3556.666667 500.96
GARUDA 120 270 450 100 300 740 100 300 740 300 300 630 1000 3280.666667 140 240 480 30 170 370 740 0 170 370 740 0 315 315 630 0 1498.5 498.5 3774 493.3333333
GARUDA PRIME 160 360 600 100 300 740 100 300 740 400 400 840 1100 3798.666667 220 320 640 40 170 370 740 0 170 370 740 0 420 420 840 0 1628 528 4292 493.3333333
GAUSS 150 225 450 100 300 740 150 450 1110 175 175 367.5 1075 3126.5 175 225 450 0 170 370 740 0 355 555 1110 0 185 185 370 2.5 1708.166667 633.1666667 3872.666667 746.1666667
GRENDEL 150 225 450 350 1050 2590 25 75 185 350 350 735 2375 9182.166667 175 225 450 0 895 1145 2290 -300 95 95 190 5 370 370 740 5 2747.166667 372.1666667 8318.666667 -863.5
GYRE 160 240 480 100 300 740 175 525 1295 100 100 210 1100 2984.666667 190 240 480 0 170 370 740 0 450 650 1300 5 105 105 210 0 1799.5 699.5 3858 873.3333333
HARROW 100 150 300 100 300 740 150 450 1110 175 175 367.5 1075 3126.5 100 150 300 0 170 370 740 0 355 555 1110 0 185 185 370 2.5 1708.166667 633.1666667 3872.666667 746.1666667
HARROW PRIME 125 188 375.5 100 300 740 175 525 1295 175 175 367.5 1175 3373.166667 140 190 380 4.5 170 370 740 0 450 650 1300 5 185 185 370 2.5 1898.166667 723.1666667 4252.666667 879.5
HILDRYN 0 0 0 75 225 555 450 1575 3555 300 300 630 2550 6460.5 0 0 0 0 80 280 560 5 780 1780 3560 5 315 315 630 0 4134 1584 8856 2395.5
HILDRYN PRIME 0 0 0 100 300 740 475 1662.5 3752.5 300 300 630 2816.666667 7297.333333 0 0 0 0 170 370 740 0 880 1880 3760 7.5 315 315 630 0 4518.5 1701.833333 9814 2516.666667
HYDROID 125 188 375.5 100 300 740 125 375 925 225 225 472.5 1025 3138.833333 140 190 380 4.5 170 370 740 0 265 465 930 5 240 240 480 7.5 1596 571 3784 645.1666667
HYDROID PRIME 150 225 450 100 300 740 175 525 1295 275 275 577.5 1275 3891.166667 175 225 450 0 170 370 740 0 450 650 1300 5 290 290 580 2.5 2027.666667 752.6666667 4770.666667 879.5
INAROS 100 150 300 550 2200 4620 0 0 0 225 225 472.5 3850 11896.5 100 150 300 0 1910 2160 4320 -300 0 0 0 0 240 240 480 7.5 3888 38 11232 -664.5
INAROS PRIME 125 188 375.5 575 2300 4830 0 0 0 225 225 472.5 4025 12437.25 140 190 380 4.5 2015 3015 6030 1200 0 0 0 0 240 240 480 7.5 5427 1402 15678 3240.75
IVARA 175 263 525.5 75 225 555 100 300 740 100 100 210 700 1930.166667 215 265 530 4.5 80 280 560 5 170 370 740 0 105 105 210 0 1118 418 2432 501.8333333
IVARA PRIME 200 300 600 75 225 555 150 450 1110 125 125 262.5 918.75 2520.625 250 300 600 0 80 280 560 5 355 555 1110 0 135 135 270 7.5 1516 597.25 3284 763.375
KHORA 125 188 375.5 125 375 925 100 300 740 275 275 577.5 1118.75 3692.291667 140 190 380 4.5 265 465 930 5 170 370 740 0 290 290 580 2.5 1654.5 535.75 4208 515.7083333
KHORA PRIME 150 225 450 125 375 925 125 375 925 325 325 682.5 1281.25 4262.708333 175 225 450 0 265 465 930 5 265 465 930 5 345 345 690 7.5 1929.75 648.5 4929 666.2916667
KULLERVO 150 225 450 325 975 2405 0 0 0 325 650 1007.5 3087.5 10481.79167 175 225 450 0 805 1055 2110 -295 0 0 0 0 550 650 1300 292.5 3340.833333 253.3333333 11253.33333 771.5416667
LAVOS 0 0 0 200 600 1480 100 300 740 450 675 1170 2350 8238.666667 0 0 0 0 340 540 1080 -400 170 370 740 0 575 675 1350 180 2495 145 7420 -818.6666667
LIMBO 150 225 450 100 300 740 75 225 555 100 100 210 700 1998 175 225 450 0 170 370 740 0 80 280 560 5 105 105 210 0 1059.5 359.5 2378 380
LIMBO PRIME 175 263 525.5 100 300 740 100 300 740 125 125 262.5 825 2374.166667 215 265 530 4.5 170 370 740 0 170 370 740 0 135 135 270 7.5 1276.5 451.5 2886 511.8333333
LOKI 150 225 450 75 225 555 75 225 555 100 100 210 600 1683.5 175 225 450 0 80 280 560 5 80 280 560 5 105 105 210 0 938 338 2072 388.5
LOKI PRIME 175 263 525.5 75 225 555 75 225 555 125 125 262.5 618.75 1780.625 215 265 530 4.5 80 280 560 5 80 280 560 5 135 135 270 7.5 966 347.25 2184 403.375
MAG 125 188 375.5 75 225 555 150 450 1110 100 100 210 900 2423.5 140 190 380 4.5 80 280 560 5 355 555 1110 0 105 105 210 0 1488 588 3172 748.5
MAG PRIME 175 263 525.5 100 300 740 150 450 1110 125 125 262.5 1025 2867.5 215 265 530 4.5 170 370 740 0 355 555 1110 0 135 135 270 7.5 1646.5 621.5 3626 758.5
MESA 100 150 300 125 375 925 75 225 555 100 100 210 800 2312.5 100 150 300 0 265 465 930 5 80 280 560 5 105 105 210 0 1187.75 387.75 2701 388.5
MESA PRIME 125 188 375.5 135 405 999 75 225 555 125 125 262.5 873.75 2613.125 140 190 380 4.5 300 500 1000 1 80 280 560 5 135 135 270 7.5 1285 411.25 3020 406.875
MIRAGE 150 225 450 80 240 592 80 240 592 100 100 210 640 1795.733333 175 225 450 0 100 300 600 8 100 300 600 8 105 105 210 0 1005 365 2220 424.2666667
MIRAGE PRIME 150 225 450 80 240 592 110 330 814 175 175 367.5 820 2402.533333 175 225 450 0 100 300 600 8 210 410 820 6 185 185 370 2.5 1305 485 2980 577.4666667
NEKROS 100 150 300 100 300 740 90 270 666 100 100 210 760 2146 100 150 300 0 170 370 740 0 135 335 670 4 105 105 210 0 1169.5 409.5 2598 452
NEKROS PRIME 125 188 375.5 100 300 740 150 450 1110 125 125 262.5 1025 2867.5 140 190 380 4.5 170 370 740 0 355 555 1110 0 135 135 270 7.5 1646.5 621.5 3626 758.5
NEZHA 150 225 450 125 375 925 50 150 370 190 190 399 812.5 2648.583333 175 225 450 0 265 465 930 5 85 280 560 190 200 200 400 1 1335 522.5 3290 641.4166667
NEZHA PRIME 0 0 0 125 375 925 50 150 370 250 250 525 887.5 3037.083333 0 0 0 0 265 465 930 5 85 280 560 190 265 265 530 5 1435.75 548.25 3693 655.9166667
NIDUS 100 150 300 150 450 1110 0 0 0 300 450 780 1125 3996 100 150 300 0 355 555 1110 0 0 0 0 0 350 450 900 120 1387.5 262.5 4440 444
NIDUS PRIME 125 188 375.5 175 525 1295 0 0 0 350 525 910 1443.75 5223.166667 140 190 380 4.5 450 650 1300 5 0 0 0 0 425 525 1050 140 1787.5 343.75 5850 626.8333333
NOVA 150 225 450 100 300 740 75 225 555 100 100 210 700 1998 175 225 450 0 170 370 740 0 80 280 560 5 105 105 210 0 1059.5 359.5 2378 380
NOVA PRIME 175 263 525.5 100 300 740 100 300 740 125 125 262.5 825 2374.166667 215 265 530 4.5 170 370 740 0 170 370 740 0 135 135 270 7.5 1276.5 451.5 2886 511.8333333
NYX 150 225 450 100 300 740 100 300 740 100 100 210 800 2244.666667 175 225 450 0 170 370 740 0 170 370 740 0 105 105 210 0 1239.5 439.5 2738 493.3333333
NYX PRIME 150 225 450 100 300 740 125 375 925 125 125 262.5 925 2620.833333 175 225 450 0 170 370 740 0 265 465 930 5 135 135 270 7.5 1466.5 541.5 3266 645.1666667
OBERON 150 225 450 125 375 925 100 300 740 175 175 367.5 993.75 3044.791667 175 225 450 0 265 465 930 5 170 370 740 0 185 185 370 2.5 1491.75 498 3557 512.2083333
OBERON PRIME 175 263 525.5 125 375 925 100 300 740 225 225 472.5 1056.25 3368.541667 215 265 530 4.5 265 465 930 5 170 370 740 0 240 240 480 7.5 1577 520.75 3898 529.4583333
OCTAVIA 150 225 450 100 300 740 75 225 555 150 150 315 750 2257 175 225 450 0 170 370 740 0 80 280 560 5 160 160 320 5 1127.333333 377.3333333 2649.333333 392.3333333
OCTAVIA PRIME 175 263 525.5 100 300 740 100 300 740 150 150 315 850 2503.666667 215 265 530 4.5 170 370 740 0 170 370 740 0 160 160 320 5 1307.333333 457.3333333 3009.333333 505.6666667
PROTEA 150 225 450 100 300 740 150 450 1110 125 125 262.5 1025 2867.5 175 225 450 0 170 370 740 0 355 555 1110 0 135 135 270 7.5 1646.5 621.5 3626 758.5
REVENANT 125 188 375.5 100 300 740 225 675 1665 125 125 262.5 1325 3607.5 140 190 380 4.5 170 370 740 0 635 835 1670 5 135 135 270 7.5 2206.5 881.5 4746 1138.5
REVENANT PRIME 150 225 450 100 300 740 250 750 1850 125 125 262.5 1425 3854.166667 175 225 450 0 170 370 740 0 725 925 1850 0 135 135 270 7.5 2386.5 961.5 5106 1251.833333
RHINO 100 150 300 100 300 740 150 450 1110 225 225 472.5 1125 3385.5 100 150 300 0 170 370 740 0 355 555 1110 0 240 240 480 7.5 1776 651 4144 758.5
RHINO PRIME 100 150 300 100 300 740 150 450 1110 275 275 577.5 1175 3644.5 100 150 300 0 170 370 740 0 355 555 1110 0 290 290 580 2.5 1837.666667 662.6666667 4390.666667 746.1666667
SARYN 150 225 450 125 375 925 100 300 740 225 225 472.5 1056.25 3368.541667 175 225 450 0 265 465 930 5 170 370 740 0 240 240 480 7.5 1577 520.75 3898 529.4583333
SARYN PRIME 200 300 600 125 375 925 100 300 740 300 300 630 1150 3854.166667 200 300 600 0 265 465 930 5 170 370 740 0 315 315 630 0 1693.25 543.25 4363 508.8333333
SEVAGOTH 125 188 375.5 100 300 740 90 270 666 150 150 315 810 2405 140 190 380 4.5 170 370 740 0 135 335 670 4 160 160 320 5 1237.333333 427.3333333 2869.333333 464.3333333
SEVAGOTH'S SHADOW 100 150 300 100 300 740 50 6.25 226.25 450 450 945 758.3333333 3372.666667 100 150 300 0 170 370 740 0 85 280 560 333.75 475 475 950 5 1515.833333 757.5 4203.333333 830.6666667
STYANAX 150 225 450 100 300 740 250 750 1850 250 250 525 1550 4501.666667 175 225 450 0 170 370 740 0 725 925 1850 0 265 265 530 5 2546.833333 996.8333333 5747.333333 1245.666667
TITANIA 150 225 450 100 300 740 100 300 740 100 100 210 800 2244.666667 175 225 450 0 170 370 740 0 170 370 740 0 105 105 210 0 1239.5 439.5 2738 493.3333333
TITANIA PRIME 175 263 525.5 125 375 925 100 300 740 125 125 262.5 931.25 2721.041667 215 265 530 4.5 265 465 930 5 170 370 740 0 135 135 270 7.5 1414.25 483 3247 525.9583333
TRINITY 150 225 450 100 300 740 100 300 740 100 100 210 800 2244.666667 175 225 450 0 170 370 740 0 170 370 740 0 105 105 210 0 1239.5 439.5 2738 493.3333333
TRINITY PRIME 150 225 450 100 300 740 150 450 1110 125 125 262.5 1025 2867.5 175 225 450 0 170 370 740 0 355 555 1110 0 135 135 270 7.5 1646.5 621.5 3626 758.5
VALKYR 100 150 300 100 300 740 50 150 370 600 600 1260 1100 4341.333333 100 150 300 0 170 370 740 0 85 280 560 190 630 630 1260 0 1707 607 4968 626.6666667
VALKYR PRIME 150 225 450 100 300 740 50 150 370 700 700 1470 1200 4859.333333 175 225 450 0 170 370 740 0 85 280 560 190 735 735 1470 0 1836.5 636.5 5486 626.6666667
VAUBAN 150 225 450 100 300 740 75 225 555 150 150 315 750 2257 175 225 450 0 170 370 740 0 80 280 560 5 160 160 320 5 1127.333333 377.3333333 2649.333333 392.3333333
VAUBAN PRIME 150 225 450 100 300 740 100 300 740 200 200 420 900 2762.666667 175 225 450 0 170 370 740 0 170 370 740 0 210 210 420 0 1369 469 3256 493.3333333
VOLT 100 150 300 100 300 740 150 450 1110 100 100 210 1000 2738 100 150 300 0 170 370 740 0 355 555 1110 0 105 105 210 0 1609.5 609.5 3478 740
VOLT PRIME 200 300 600 100 300 740 150 450 1110 125 125 262.5 1025 2867.5 200 300 600 0 170 370 740 0 355 555 1110 0 135 135 270 7.5 1646.5 621.5 3626 758.5
VORUNA 100 150 300 150 450 1110 100 300 740 190 190 399 1135 3572.966667 100 150 300 0 355 555 1110 0 170 370 740 0 200 200 400 1 1665 530 4070 497.0333333
WISP 200 300 600 100 300 740 75 225 555 175 175 367.5 775 2386.5 200 300 600 0 170 370 740 0 80 280 560 5 185 185 370 2.5 1158.166667 383.1666667 2772.666667 386.1666667
WISP PRIME 200 300 600 100 300 740 100 300 740 200 200 420 900 2762.666667 200 300 600 0 170 370 740 0 170 370 740 0 210 210 420 0 1369 469 3256 493.3333333
WUKONG 120 180 360 150 450 1110 100 300 740 250 250 525 1225 4039.166667 130 180 360 0 355 555 1110 0 170 370 740 0 265 265 530 5 1785.25 560.25 4551 511.8333333
WUKONG PRIME 130 195 390 150 450 1110 120 360 888 275 275 577.5 1342.5 4430.75 145 195 390 0 355 555 1110 0 245 445 890 2 290 290 580 2.5 1981.5 639 5036 605.25
XAKU 153 230 459.5 97 291 717.8 89 267 658.6 137 137 287.7 779.89 2284.303533 160 230 460 0.5 269 469 938 220.2 239 329 658 -0.6 145 145 290 2.3 1353.683333 573.7933333 3160.733333 876.4298
YARELI 200 300 600 100 300 740 150 450 1110 100 100 210 1000 2738 200 300 600 0 170 370 740 0 355 555 1110 0 105 105 210 0 1609.5 609.5 3478 740
ZEPHYR 100 150 300 150 450 1110 150 450 1110 100 100 210 1200 3367 100 150 300 0 355 555 1110 0 355 555 1110 0 105 105 210 0 1859.25 659.25 4107 740
ZEPHYR PRIME 150 225 450 150 450 1110 150 450 1110 125 125 262.5 1237.5 3561.25 175 225 450 0 355 555 1110 0 355 555 1110 0 135 135 270 7.5 1914.75 677.25 4329 767.75

And for a key on field names:

  Reveal hidden contents
FIELD DESC
frame Warframe Name
bE(o) Base Energy Old
mE(o) Max-Level Energy Old
+Flow (old) Max-Level Energy with Max Rank Flow Mod Equipped (Old)
bH(o) Base Health Old
mH(o) Max-Level Health Old
+Vitality (old) Max-Level Health with Max Rank Vitality Mod Equipped (Old)
bS(o) Base Shields Old
mS(o) Max-Level Shields Old
+Redirection (old) Max-Level Shields with Max Rank Redirection Mod Equipped (Old)
bA(o) Base Armor Old
mA(o) Max-Level Armor Old
+Steel Fiber (old) Max-Level Armor with Max Rank Steel Fiber Mod Equipped (Old)
EHP (old) Effective Hit Points with No Mods Equipped (Old)
Mod EHP (old) Effective Hit Points with Max Rank Vitality, Redirection, and Steel Fiber Equipped (Old)
bE(n) Base Energy New
mE(n) Max-Level Energy New
+Flow (new) Max-Level Energy with Max Rank Flow Mod Equipped (New)
Energy +/- Change in Max-Level Energy with Max Rank Flow Mod Equipped from Old to New
bH(n) Base Health New
mH(n) Max-Level Health New
+Vitality (new) Max-Level Health with Max Rank Vitality Mod Equipped (New)
Health +/- Change in Max-Level Health with Max Rank Vitality Mod Equipped from Old to New
bS(n) Base Shields New
mS(n) Max-Level Shields New
+Redirection (new) Max-Level Shields with Max Rank Redirection Mod Equipped (New)
Shields +/- Change in Max-Level Shields with Max Rank Redirection Mod Equipped from Old to New
bA(n) Base Armor New
mA(n) Max-Level Armor New
+Steel Fiber (new) Max-Level Armor with Max Rank Steel Fiber Mod Equipped (New)
Armor +/- Change in Max-Level Armor with Max Rank Steel Fiber Mod Equipped from Old to New
EHP (new) Effective Hit Points with No Mods Equipped (New)
EHP +/- Change in Effective Hit Points with No Mods Equipped from Old to New
Mod EHP (new) Effective Hit Points with Max Rank Vitality, Redirection, and Steel Fiber Equipped (New)
Mod EHP +/- Change in Effective Hit Points with Max Rank Vitality, Redirection, and Steel Fiber Equipped from Old to new

I also calculated what I call "Naked EHP" (your EHP after your shields have been stripped) both with and without the three big mods. In that case Lavos was the only one losing "Naked EHP" when no mods were equipped, and Grendel was the only one losing "Naked EHP" when mods were equipped.

But in conclusion, it's generally positive for all frames.

Why didn't you use Primed or Archon Flow for comparison? There seem to be a handful of frames that lose energy with that mod. Also, the modded comparison is misleading because triple umbral results are worse than before, regarding naked ehp, I believe. 

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NecroPed

NecroPed

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Happy to see some improvements for Kahl, I think it's a great first step towards making kahl great and hope there is more to come in future. I hope that the next step, if any, for kahl, is the introduction of procedural missions akin to regular warframe missions, giving an alternate source of stock without having to play the specific missions, because while I find them fun, they do not have as much replayability as regular warframe missions, and it's hard to motivate myself to keep playing them because I burn out, but being able to earn more stock or giving more methods of getting my weekly stock without burning out from repeating the missions is what I want the most out of Kahl's systems right now (Even if both the narmer missions and hypothetical procedural mode have the same combined total stock cap, resulting in not needing to fully complete both the missions and procedural mode to get your weeks worth), if it were like this I would feel more inclined to repeat the missions when I want to play them, and I think I would enjoy them a lot more if that were the case, as well as having more missions available, and being able to choose which mission you are doing that week after having unlocked it from initial completion, rather than waiting for the mission I want to play coming back into rotation. This is the one I personally care most about here so only going to touch on the other stuff here.

Rivens as rewards instead of incarnon is a great move as well, as I get closer to having all the incarnons I want, I was worried I'd be losing reason to play circuit so this is good. Extra rivens are pretty much always appreciated, but I think it might also be good to be able to also choose kuva instead of rivens, as there are already rivens in the circuit rewards and people might already have all they need, so having a boost to their investment of what they're already earning from circuit could be really good as well. 

Focus changes sound good, having an initial flat focus gain without needing to kill alleviates one of my biggest gripes with focus orbs, completely wasting the orb because there's no enemies/I picked it up before a round/map change etc. so this sounds like a healthy addition. 

Shield, stat and mod changes sound really healthy for the game too but can't really comment until I have my hands on it.

 

Edited by NecroPed
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Ardhanarishvara

Ardhanarishvara

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1 hour ago, AJAL8000 said:

Very few Warframes will be able to take advantage of the Shield-Gating mechanic without this mod.

As someone who has gone an hour and a half in steel path circuit with just base shield gating and zero mods or keys to augment it, on frames that are not built to augment their shield gain in any notable way, such as gyre for example, I rather think that's underestimating it a bit. The shield gating mechanic was plenty utilizable with only a single augur mod in the vast majority of instances - if you're far enough away, or are moving quickly enough, it's quite rare that you get blitzed by more than one hit at a time, so casting can easily get the base shield gating up enough to compensate for another stray hit.

Or rather, that's how it has been thus far.

Between a combination of...

  1. More shields = faster regen
  2. Shield gate maximum duration goes up the higher your max shields, and
  3. Shield gate minimum duration goes up the more shields you've regenerated

I rather think that it'll be considerably easier now for people to survive without having to use this new mod. I certainly was doing just fine before without ever using a decaying dragon key, and that's about to get easier to do, so.

Keep in mind that you will no longer have to fully regenerate your shields to get a decent gate time, and that we finally have access to adjusting the recharge delay, with one mod cutting it down by 40% (so it won't take 4 seconds to start up, but 2.4) and another one cuts it down by 35, for 75% reduction total (1 second to regen start). New shield-related builds suddenly become possible without having to explicitly use augur mods or brief respite to get decent gate times in decent intervals, assuming the mods aren't mis-described and actually just increase speed of getting to activate shield regen by 1.4x and 1.35x.

Also, I would like to point out that part of your concern was immediately addressed directly below the mod image you pointed out.

Quote

For example, if my maximum Shields are 100 with Catalyzing Shields equipped, I would expect the following Shield Gating durations:

  • 100 Shields at Shield Break: 1.33s of Shield Gating
  • 75 Shields at Shield Break: 1.0s of Shield Gating
  • 50 Shields at Shield Break: 0.67s of Shield Gating
  • 25 Shields at Shield Break: 0.34s of Shield Gating
  • 10 Shields at Shield Break: 0.33s of Shield Gating

Remember that the mod cuts shields down to one fifth of their current value. At rank 30, there are only a ten warframes that have more than 500 shields, many of which are Primes: Hildryn, Hildryn Prime, Revenant, Revenant Prime, Styanax, Harrow Prime, Caliban, Frost Prime, Gyre and Hydroid Prime.

Brief Respite alone could cover most of those examples without any additional augur mods - if not for the fact that Styanax and Frost Prime are pretty much exempt due to being cc and overguard gods, Revenant has Mesmer Skin, Hildryn has Pillage, Harrow has Condemn, and Caliban is usually just fine thanks to his Crew topping up his shields the moment a single cast of Fusion Strike gives him a non-zero shield value. So the only ones you need to worry about over the 500 shield threshold are Gyre (aka kill everyone before they can even touch her) and Hydroid (tentacle cc, staggers, tidal surge just being immune during cast).

Every single other warframe in the game, aside from those just listed, has fewer than 500 shields at rank 30, meaning this one mod will cut their max shields down to below 100. Even if you somehow don't regenerate all 100 in a single cast courtesy of Brief Respite, getting 70 will still yield like 1 second, a negligible difference compared to the full gate, and more than double what the minimum gate would get you prior to these changes.

Edited by Ardhanarishvara
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AJAL8000

AJAL8000

Posted
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hace 1 hora, Ardhanarishvara dijo:

As someone who has gone an hour and a half in steel path circuit with just base shield gating and zero mods or keys to augment it, on frames that are not built to augment their shield gain in any notable way, such as gyre for example, I rather think that's underestimating it a bit. The shield gating mechanic was plenty utilizable with only a single augur mod in the vast majority of instances - if you're far enough away, or are moving quickly enough, it's quite rare that you get blitzed by more than one hit at a time, so casting can easily get the base shield gating up enough to compensate for another stray hit.

Or rather, that's how it has been thus far.

Between a combination of...

  1. More shields = faster regen
  2. Shield gate maximum duration goes up the higher your max shields, and
  3. Shield gate minimum duration goes up the more shields you've regenerated

I rather think that it'll be considerably easier now for people to survive without having to use this new mod. I certainly was doing just fine before without ever using a decaying dragon key, and that's about to get easier to do, so.

Keep in mind that you will no longer have to fully regenerate your shields to get a decent gate time, and that we finally have access to adjusting the recharge delay, with one mod cutting it down by 40% (so it won't take 4 seconds to start up, but 2.4) and another one cuts it down by 35, for 75% reduction total (1 second to regen start). New shield-related builds suddenly become possible without having to explicitly use augur mods or brief respite to get decent gate times in decent intervals, assuming the mods aren't mis-described and actually just increase speed of getting to activate shield regen by 1.4x and 1.35x.

Also, I would like to point out that part of your concern was immediately addressed directly below the mod image you pointed out.

Remember that the mod cuts shields down to one fifth of their current value. At rank 30, there are only a ten warframes that have more than 500 shields, many of which are Primes: Hildryn, Hildryn Prime, Revenant, Revenant Prime, Styanax, Harrow Prime, Caliban, Frost Prime, Gyre and Hydroid Prime.

Brief Respite alone could cover most of those examples without any additional augur mods - if not for the fact that Styanax and Frost Prime are pretty much exempt due to being cc and overguard gods, Revenant has Mesmer Skin, Hildryn has Pillage, Harrow has Condemn, and Caliban is usually just fine thanks to his Crew topping up his shields the moment a single cast of Fusion Strike gives him a non-zero shield value. So the only ones you need to worry about over the 500 shield threshold are Gyre (aka kill everyone before they can even touch her) and Hydroid (tentacle cc, staggers, tidal surge just being immune during cast).

Every single other warframe in the game, aside from those just listed, has fewer than 500 shields at rank 30, meaning this one mod will cut their max shields down to below 100. Even if you somehow don't regenerate all 100 in a single cast courtesy of Brief Respite, getting 70 will still yield like 1 second, a negligible difference compared to the full gate, and more than double what the minimum gate would get you prior to these changes.

Let's say with Limbo, which is my favorite. He would have to fill 350 shields out of the 370 total he has. To even get the 1.3 seconds we currently have.

How should I solve this without completely changing my Limbo build? The simple answer is that it would be with the new mod. Because otherwise I would have to use some of these other mods:

Cita

Fast Deflection: added -45% Shield Recharge Delay
Fortitude: increased the Shield Recharge value from +80% to +100%.
Also increased Chance to Resist Knockdown from +20% to +40%.
Vigilante Vigor: added -30% Shield Recharge Delay

Which will always make me lose a Slot in Warframe anyway (or two or three). With the new mod I only need to fill 74 shields to get a consistent 1.33 seconds.

On the other hand, one cannot always afford the time to wait for shields to fill before continuing to fight. So spending energy to get full shield with one button was very useful and now having to fill up around 350 shield (or 370 in this case) it is simply unrealistic to expect it to be as comfortable.

Of course as you say. Shield-Gating will be in place regardless of the number of shields. But that's actually also a problem because you can practice knowing when 1.3 seconds has passed. Do you know when 0.53 seconds have passed? or 0.75 seconds? Something difficult to calculate.

You may wonder why it would be necessary to use Shield-Gating with Limbo? Well, you have to remember that Eximus and Nullifiers cause him a lot of problems, and having the ability to work with Shield-Gating to counteract these problems was good for him. Now Limbo is undoubtedly in a much more delicate situation than before. You'll imagine that some other CC Warframes don't have much choice in this regard in the long term either. Or Glass Cannon Warframes also.

Oh and lastly, I'm a veteran player too, I understand what you were talking about too. Weekly I always do 30 or 40 Circuit Rounds in Solo, plus I have already gone several times at LvL Cap levels in different factions. That's why I'm a little worried about the situation because all these changes do is hurt some Warframes while buffing others.

As I said: "Very few Warframes will be able to take advantage of the Shield-Gating mechanic without this mod."  Obviously everyone will still be able to do Shield-Gating, but in terms of consistency when using it, few Warframes will be able to do it without that mod. And please, let's not bring Warframes like Revenant or Octavia or somes Warframes like them into this because obviously these Warframes do not depend on Shield-Gating to survive and being effective in a mission (Although it obviously helps them).

Edited by AJAL8000
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garbenzine

garbenzine

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I'm curious about the wording on the convergence orb change.  Do they mean you get 5000 flat focus on top of the multiplier, or were they saying that the orbs now simply give 5000 focus and remove the bonus mechanic?  If it's the latter, might want to spend the next couple weeks capping if you haven't already finished the focus grind.

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