Abyss of Dagath - Dev Workshop: System Changes and General Quality of Life

[vixenpixel]

52 minutes ago, SDGDen said:

i just said it *shouldnt* be balanced around steel path. 

"Most people playing the game" has to be measured against people concurrently playing the game over-time. There's alot of players that almost entirely play steel path, unless there's some invasion or event with formas or similar. Even if you statistically find more players waddling around pre steel path, you have to assume that most people who have played the game for years and are still playing it and loving it, spend most of their time playing it in steel path. Imo, the game could use a third difficulty, maybe 1000+ so that we can skip the early disruption levels and jump straight to the double loot. Personally I'm not too keen on running a mission for 40 minutes before it starts to really pay off. Just because how easy steel path is at this point, with the new incarnon weapons like torid, steel path has become the new ez mode, if it already wasn't (which it kindof was if you brought proper loadouts). That said, I look at the shield gate change as an opportunity to diversify my builds. I think it's exciting. :)

Ps. Please DE, add a countdown/counter displayed vividly centre-screen or similar to denote the shield-gate timer. Please DE, please. 

[(PSN)Adeak]

Always nice to see the word "Necramech" popping up in lists of removed content. But you seem to have missed one of the Necramech NW challenges: getting 100 kills with one.

[KitMeHarder]

9 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Yeah, Tenno shields shouldn't be bypassed by toxin damage.  Procs, sure, absolutely.

Even procs still insta-kill in plenty of scenarios (they do 50% damage per tick) if you're just building for shields and only have base health (the point of a large shield build). Toxin procs can deal bonus damage to our shields for all I care, but we can't have bypassing mechanics if the devs want build diversity. Or...

• Toxin damage can bypass our shields, but can't drop us below 2 health if we have shields up
• Etc...

Anything but a high chance of being literally one-shotted.

13 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

Forgive me if you already know this, but Hildryn's health is immune to damage as long as you have Overshields.

I know. It also doesn't matter in practice. Want to use an ability besides Pillage? Dead. Enemy does mixed damage like a lich? Dead. Other incoming damage sources? Dead.

And it doesn't change that this does nothing for the other 50+ warframes.

[lukinu_u]

Il y a 3 heures, MobyTheDuck a dit :

Wait, did you guys address the Dragon Key + shield gate problem and then added a new mod that does nearly exactly that?

Except it's a mod instead of a being free, which is totally fair given the advantage it gives.

[D-Shear]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb lukinu_u:

Except it's a mod instead of a being free, which is totally fair given the advantage it gives.

That is completely wrong. If you don't play an invis or invinc frame, suriving via shield gate is the highest possible skill ceiling, so just from a gameplay perspective alone, it's not free.

But it's also not free from a mod perspective. You need Brief Respite, forgoing any other possible aura mod. Depending on your efficiency and frame, you also need 2-3 Augur mods, 2 are possible on a secondary, another has to be slotted into your warframe at minimum, worst case you need 2 augur on the frame. So the price for shield gating is actually already pretty steep and now the builds are getting even tighter and more cookie cutter, because we have to give up another warframe mod slot, depriving those frames relying on shield gate alone by even more build choices. 

Edited September 28, 2023 by TeenieSlasher

[Tiltskillet]

4 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

Even procs still insta-kill in plenty of scenarios (they do 50% damage per tick) if you're just building for shields and only have base health (the point of a large shield build). Toxin procs can deal bonus damage to our shields for all I care, but we can't have bypassing mechanics if the devs want build diversity. Or...

Sure, but they're by definition not as common as toxin damage is, and they give a little time to react.  Maybe the onset time should be a little longer though, or, as you suggested, not take Tenno hp to zero.

But I'm fine with shield-reliant frames still having to worry about particular missions more, and having a little incentive to use health/armor mods.  (As well as Rolling Guard, DR, etc., but there is plenty of incentive to use those anyway.)

[1manApocalypse]

I'm not sure about some of those Duviri Nightwave Challenges. An animal spawning to rescue is inredibly random, and not consistant like the echo lures in normal open worlds.  Playing a game of Komi seems like it would take a while unless you can just lose on purpose quickly. And personally i'm terrible ay playing the Shawzin, so having a challenge require that doesn't seem too good. I thought the point of these optional side objectives was so players can pick and choose which ones they want to do.

[x-cessive]

Break Narmer Mission Improvements:

One of the biggest frustrations in the Break Narmer Missions for me is, when I get the challenge to do the mission in 15 minutes. It is impossible to do the missions in 15 minutes and also finish all the other challenges in the same run. So whenever this comes up, you immediately know, that you have to do it twice, if you want all to complete all 6 challenges.

Maybe the improved movement speed might help with this, but i doubt it. IMO the 15 minute challenge should be removed, but with the improved movement speed, it might also be enough to increase the time limit to 20 minutes.

 

[Finedaible]

May I make a request for a HUD armor indicator for all warframes? Currently I think only Atlas has an in-mission armor indicator as part of his Rubble passive, but a universal armor indicator would be super helpful when using other warframes with armor-scaling effects such as Frost's snow globe or Gara's Vitrify.

[Shadowsoftime99]

I love the spirit of the base-stat-modifying mod changes, but the base stat numbers on Lavos (who is the one I immediately looked at) seem... off.

440% of 200 is 880, so 600 + 880 = 1480 (old)

100% of 540 is 540, so 540 + 540 = 1080 (new)

The armor changes may help offset this (for bi or triumbral), but armor is generally much less commonly invested outside of exactly triumbral and even then I think you end up losing eHP out of this because the power of slashing Vitality from 440% to 100% (or 550% to 130%, or 770% to 180%) is too strong to also be cutting the final max HP with a way worse than 4:1 ratio.

Surely there's a typo or an error in there, right? And there's supposed to be a net BUFF in that HP value and not a net nerf, right?

[Probably_Asleep]

EDIT: THESE NUMBERS ARE OUTDATED! WILL RECALCULATE "TOMORROW" (TODAY AFTER I SLEEP)
EDIT (x2): Did the recalc, but I'm going to put it in another post because the data is so huge and I did some changes. So forget this post ever existed!

Ran the numbers:

frame	EHP (no Mods)	EHP (w/ Mods)
ASH	1489 (+489)	3367 (+493)
ASH PRIME	1827 (+615)	4339 (+636)
ATLAS	1696 (+546)	4563 (+506)
ATLAS PRIME	2843 (+887)	7853 (+772)
BANSHEE	1240 (+440)	2738 (+493)
BANSHEE PRIME	1277 (+452)	2886 (+512)
BARUUK	1193 (+436)	2731 (+509)
BARUUK PRIME	1434 (+540)	3316 (+654)
CALIBAN	2028 (+753)	4771 (+880)
CHROMA	1566 (+516)	4045 (+506)
CHROMA PRIME	1665 (+540)	4440 (+512)
CITRINE	1682 (+539)	4247 (+513)
EMBER	1277 (+452)	2886 (+512)
EMBER PRIME	1497 (+547)	3389 (+639)
EQUINOX	1277 (+452)	2886 (+512)
EQUINOX PRIME	1453 (+491)	3402 (+519)
EXCALIBUR	1406 (+481)	3404 (+512)
EXCALIBUR PRIME	1499 (+499)	3774 (+493)
EXCALIBUR UMBRA	1499 (+499)	3774 (+493)
FROST	1869 (+669)	4514 (+740)
FROST PRIME	2059 (+759)	4894 (+873)
GARA	1307 (+457)	3009 (+506)
GARA PRIME	1482 (+494)	3557 (+501)
GARUDA	1499 (+499)	3774 (+493)
GARUDA PRIME	1628 (+528)	4292 (+493)
GAUSS	1708 (+633)	3873 (+746)
GRENDEL	2747 (+372)	8319 (-863)
GYRE	1800 (+700)	3858 (+873)
HARROW	1708 (+633)	3873 (+746)
HARROW PRIME	1898 (+723)	4253 (+879)
HILDRYN	4134 (+1584)	8856 (+2396)
HILDRYN PRIME	4519 (+1702)	9814 (+2517)
HYDROID	1596 (+571)	3784 (+645)
HYDROID PRIME	2028 (+753)	4771 (+880)
INAROS	3888 (+38)	11232 (-665)
INAROS PRIME	5427 (+1402)	15678 (+3241)
IVARA	1118 (+418)	2432 (+502)
IVARA PRIME	1516 (+597)	3284 (+763)
KHORA	1655 (+536)	4208 (+516)
KHORA PRIME	1930 (+649)	4929 (+666)
KULLERVO	3341 (+253)	11253 (+772)
LAVOS	2495 (+145)	7420 (-819)
LIMBO	1060 (+360)	2378 (+380)
LIMBO PRIME	1277 (+452)	2886 (+512)
LOKI	938 (+338)	2072 (+389)
LOKI PRIME	966 (+347)	2184 (+403)
MAG	1488 (+588)	3172 (+749)
MAG PRIME	1647 (+622)	3626 (+759)
MESA	1188 (+388)	2701 (+389)
MESA PRIME	1285 (+411)	3020 (+407)
MIRAGE	1005 (+365)	2220 (+424)
MIRAGE PRIME	1305 (+485)	2980 (+577)
NEKROS	1170 (+410)	2598 (+452)
NEKROS PRIME	1647 (+622)	3626 (+759)
NEZHA	1335 (+523)	3290 (+641)
NEZHA PRIME	1436 (+548)	3693 (+656)
NIDUS	1388 (+263)	4440 (+444)
NIDUS PRIME	1788 (+344)	5850 (+627)
NOVA	1060 (+360)	2378 (+380)
NOVA PRIME	1277 (+452)	2886 (+512)
NYX	1240 (+440)	2738 (+493)
NYX PRIME	1467 (+542)	3266 (+645)
OBERON	1492 (+498)	3557 (+512)
OBERON PRIME	1577 (+521)	3898 (+529)
OCTAVIA	1127 (+377)	2649 (+392)
OCTAVIA PRIME	1307 (+457)	3009 (+506)
PROTEA	1647 (+622)	3626 (+759)
REVENANT	2207 (+882)	4746 (+1139)
REVENANT PRIME	2387 (+962)	5106 (+1252)
RHINO	1776 (+651)	4144 (+759)
RHINO PRIME	1838 (+663)	4391 (+746)
SARYN	1577 (+521)	3898 (+529)
SARYN PRIME	1693 (+543)	4363 (+509)
SEVAGOTH	1237 (+427)	2869 (+464)
SEVAGOTH'S SHADOW	1516 (+758)	4203 (+831)
STYANAX	2547 (+997)	5747 (+1246)
TITANIA	1240 (+440)	2738 (+493)
TITANIA PRIME	1414 (+483)	3247 (+526)
TRINITY	1240 (+440)	2738 (+493)
TRINITY PRIME	1647 (+622)	3626 (+759)
VALKYR	1707 (+607)	4968 (+627)
VALKYR PRIME	1837 (+637)	5486 (+627)
VAUBAN	1127 (+377)	2649 (+392)
VAUBAN PRIME	1369 (+469)	3256 (+493)
VOLT	1610 (+610)	3478 (+740)
VOLT PRIME	1647 (+622)	3626 (+759)
VORUNA	1665 (+530)	4070 (+497)
WISP	1158 (+383)	2773 (+386)
WISP PRIME	1369 (+469)	3256 (+493)
WUKONG	1785 (+560)	4551 (+512)
WUKONG PRIME	1982 (+639)	5036 (+605)
XAKU	1354 (+574)	3161 (+876)
YARELI	1610 (+610)	3478 (+740)
ZEPHYR	1859 (+659)	4107 (+740)
ZEPHYR PRIME	1915 (+677)	4329 (+768)

So for the most part the frames are all getting a boost to their EHP, but Grendel, Inaros, and Lavos lose EHP after Mods*.
^{*-The Mods in this case are a max-rank Vitality, Redirection, and Steel Fiber}

If you want to see the FULL data dump, reveal contents...

Spoiler

frame	bE(o)	mE(o)	+Flow (old)	bH(o)	mH(o)	+Vitality (old)	bS(o)	mS(o)	+Redirection (old)	bA(o)	mA(o)	+Steel Fiber (old)	EHP (old)	Mod EHP (old)	bE(n)	mE(n)	+Flow (new)	Energy +/-	bH(n)	mH(n)	+Vitality (new)	Health +/-	bS(n)	mS(n)	+Redirection (new)	Shields +/-	bA(n)	mA(n)	+Steel Fiber (new)	Armor +/-	EHP (new)	EHP +/-	Mod EHP (new)	Mod EHP +/-
ASH	100	150	300	150	450	1110	100	300	740	100	100	210	1000	2873.666667	100	150	300	0	355	555	1110	0	170	370	740	0	105	105	210	0	1489.25	489.25	3367	493.3333333
ASH PRIME	100	150	300	150	450	1110	125	375	925	175	175	367.5	1212.5	3703.083333	100	150	300	0	355	555	1110	0	265	465	930	5	185	185	370	2.5	1827.25	614.75	4339	635.9166667
ATLAS	150	225	450	100	300	740	100	300	740	450	450	945	1150	4057.666667	175	225	450	0	170	370	740	0	170	370	740	0	475	475	950	5	1695.833333	545.8333333	4563.333333	505.6666667
ATLAS PRIME	175	263	525.5	175	525	1295	150	450	1110	475	475	997.5	1956.25	7080.875	215	265	530	4.5	450	650	1300	5	355	555	1110	0	500	500	1000	2.5	2843.333333	887.0833333	7853.333333	772.4583333
BANSHEE	150	225	450	100	300	740	100	300	740	100	100	210	800	2244.666667	175	225	450	0	170	370	740	0	170	370	740	0	105	105	210	0	1239.5	439.5	2738	493.3333333
BANSHEE PRIME	175	263	525.5	100	300	740	100	300	740	125	125	262.5	825	2374.166667	215	265	530	4.5	170	370	740	0	170	370	740	0	135	135	270	7.5	1276.5	451.5	2886	511.8333333
BARUUK	200	300	600	75	225	555	100	300	740	175	175	367.5	756.25	2221.541667	200	300	600	0	80	280	560	5	170	370	740	0	185	185	370	2.5	1192.666667	436.4166667	2730.666667	509.125
BARUUK PRIME	200	300	600	75	225	555	125	375	925	225	225	472.5	893.75	2662.458333	200	300	600	0	80	280	560	5	265	465	930	5	240	240	480	7.5	1434	540.25	3316	653.5416667
CALIBAN	125	188	375.5	100	300	740	175	525	1295	275	275	577.5	1275	3891.166667	140	190	380	4.5	170	370	740	0	450	650	1300	5	290	290	580	2.5	2027.666667	752.6666667	4770.666667	879.5
CHROMA	150	225	450	100	300	740	100	300	740	350	350	735	1050	3539.666667	175	225	450	0	170	370	740	0	170	370	740	0	370	370	740	5	1566.333333	516.3333333	4045.333333	505.6666667
CHROMA PRIME	200	300	600	100	300	740	100	300	740	425	425	892.5	1125	3928.166667	200	300	600	0	170	370	740	0	170	370	740	0	450	450	900	7.5	1665	540	4440	511.8333333
CITRINE	120	180	360	135	405	999	100	300	740	250	250	525	1142.5	3733.916667	130	180	360	0	300	500	1000	1	170	370	740	0	265	265	530	5	1681.666667	539.1666667	4246.666667	512.75
EMBER	150	225	450	100	300	740	100	300	740	125	125	262.5	825	2374.166667	175	225	450	0	170	370	740	0	170	370	740	0	135	135	270	7.5	1276.5	451.5	2886	511.8333333
EMBER PRIME	150	225	450	100	300	740	125	375	925	150	150	315	950	2750.333333	175	225	450	0	170	370	740	0	265	465	930	5	160	160	320	5	1497.333333	547.3333333	3389.333333	639
EQUINOX	150	225	450	100	300	740	100	300	740	125	125	262.5	825	2374.166667	175	225	450	0	170	370	740	0	170	370	740	0	135	135	270	7.5	1276.5	451.5	2886	511.8333333
EQUINOX PRIME	165	248	495.5	125	375	925	100	300	740	150	150	315	962.5	2882.916667	200	250	500	4.5	265	465	930	5	170	370	740	0	160	160	320	5	1453	490.5	3402	519.0833333
EXCALIBUR	100	150	300	100	300	740	100	300	740	225	225	472.5	925	2892.166667	100	150	300	0	170	370	740	0	170	370	740	0	240	240	480	7.5	1406	481	3404	511.8333333
EXCALIBUR PRIME	150	225	450	100	300	740	100	300	740	300	300	630	1000	3280.666667	175	225	450	0	170	370	740	0	170	370	740	0	315	315	630	0	1498.5	498.5	3774	493.3333333
EXCALIBUR UMBRA	150	225	450	100	300	740	100	300	740	300	300	630	1000	3280.666667	175	225	450	0	170	370	740	0	170	370	740	0	315	315	630	0	1498.5	498.5	3774	493.3333333
FROST	100	150	300	100	300	740	150	450	1110	300	300	630	1200	3774	100	150	300	0	170	370	740	0	355	555	1110	0	315	315	630	0	1868.5	668.5	4514	740
FROST PRIME	100	150	300	100	300	740	175	525	1295	300	300	630	1300	4020.666667	100	150	300	0	170	370	740	0	450	650	1300	5	315	315	630	0	2058.5	758.5	4894	873.3333333
GARA	150	225	450	100	300	740	100	300	740	150	150	315	850	2503.666667	175	225	450	0	170	370	740	0	170	370	740	0	160	160	320	5	1307.333333	457.3333333	3009.333333	505.6666667
GARA PRIME	150	225	450	120	360	888	100	300	740	190	190	399	988	3055.706667	175	225	450	0	245	445	890	2	170	370	740	0	200	200	400	1	1481.666667	493.6666667	3556.666667	500.96
GARUDA	120	270	450	100	300	740	100	300	740	300	300	630	1000	3280.666667	140	240	480	30	170	370	740	0	170	370	740	0	315	315	630	0	1498.5	498.5	3774	493.3333333
GARUDA PRIME	160	360	600	100	300	740	100	300	740	400	400	840	1100	3798.666667	220	320	640	40	170	370	740	0	170	370	740	0	420	420	840	0	1628	528	4292	493.3333333
GAUSS	150	225	450	100	300	740	150	450	1110	175	175	367.5	1075	3126.5	175	225	450	0	170	370	740	0	355	555	1110	0	185	185	370	2.5	1708.166667	633.1666667	3872.666667	746.1666667
GRENDEL	150	225	450	350	1050	2590	25	75	185	350	350	735	2375	9182.166667	175	225	450	0	895	1145	2290	-300	95	95	190	5	370	370	740	5	2747.166667	372.1666667	8318.666667	-863.5
GYRE	160	240	480	100	300	740	175	525	1295	100	100	210	1100	2984.666667	190	240	480	0	170	370	740	0	450	650	1300	5	105	105	210	0	1799.5	699.5	3858	873.3333333
HARROW	100	150	300	100	300	740	150	450	1110	175	175	367.5	1075	3126.5	100	150	300	0	170	370	740	0	355	555	1110	0	185	185	370	2.5	1708.166667	633.1666667	3872.666667	746.1666667
HARROW PRIME	125	188	375.5	100	300	740	175	525	1295	175	175	367.5	1175	3373.166667	140	190	380	4.5	170	370	740	0	450	650	1300	5	185	185	370	2.5	1898.166667	723.1666667	4252.666667	879.5
HILDRYN	0	0	0	75	225	555	450	1575	3555	300	300	630	2550	6460.5	0	0	0	0	80	280	560	5	780	1780	3560	5	315	315	630	0	4134	1584	8856	2395.5
HILDRYN PRIME	0	0	0	100	300	740	475	1662.5	3752.5	300	300	630	2816.666667	7297.333333	0	0	0	0	170	370	740	0	880	1880	3760	7.5	315	315	630	0	4518.5	1701.833333	9814	2516.666667
HYDROID	125	188	375.5	100	300	740	125	375	925	225	225	472.5	1025	3138.833333	140	190	380	4.5	170	370	740	0	265	465	930	5	240	240	480	7.5	1596	571	3784	645.1666667
HYDROID PRIME	150	225	450	100	300	740	175	525	1295	275	275	577.5	1275	3891.166667	175	225	450	0	170	370	740	0	450	650	1300	5	290	290	580	2.5	2027.666667	752.6666667	4770.666667	879.5
INAROS	100	150	300	550	2200	4620	0	0	0	225	225	472.5	3850	11896.5	100	150	300	0	1910	2160	4320	-300	0	0	0	0	240	240	480	7.5	3888	38	11232	-664.5
INAROS PRIME	125	188	375.5	575	2300	4830	0	0	0	225	225	472.5	4025	12437.25	140	190	380	4.5	2015	3015	6030	1200	0	0	0	0	240	240	480	7.5	5427	1402	15678	3240.75
IVARA	175	263	525.5	75	225	555	100	300	740	100	100	210	700	1930.166667	215	265	530	4.5	80	280	560	5	170	370	740	0	105	105	210	0	1118	418	2432	501.8333333
IVARA PRIME	200	300	600	75	225	555	150	450	1110	125	125	262.5	918.75	2520.625	250	300	600	0	80	280	560	5	355	555	1110	0	135	135	270	7.5	1516	597.25	3284	763.375
KHORA	125	188	375.5	125	375	925	100	300	740	275	275	577.5	1118.75	3692.291667	140	190	380	4.5	265	465	930	5	170	370	740	0	290	290	580	2.5	1654.5	535.75	4208	515.7083333
KHORA PRIME	150	225	450	125	375	925	125	375	925	325	325	682.5	1281.25	4262.708333	175	225	450	0	265	465	930	5	265	465	930	5	345	345	690	7.5	1929.75	648.5	4929	666.2916667
KULLERVO	150	225	450	325	975	2405	0	0	0	325	650	1007.5	3087.5	10481.79167	175	225	450	0	805	1055	2110	-295	0	0	0	0	550	650	1300	292.5	3340.833333	253.3333333	11253.33333	771.5416667
LAVOS	0	0	0	200	600	1480	100	300	740	450	675	1170	2350	8238.666667	0	0	0	0	340	540	1080	-400	170	370	740	0	575	675	1350	180	2495	145	7420	-818.6666667
LIMBO	150	225	450	100	300	740	75	225	555	100	100	210	700	1998	175	225	450	0	170	370	740	0	80	280	560	5	105	105	210	0	1059.5	359.5	2378	380
LIMBO PRIME	175	263	525.5	100	300	740	100	300	740	125	125	262.5	825	2374.166667	215	265	530	4.5	170	370	740	0	170	370	740	0	135	135	270	7.5	1276.5	451.5	2886	511.8333333
LOKI	150	225	450	75	225	555	75	225	555	100	100	210	600	1683.5	175	225	450	0	80	280	560	5	80	280	560	5	105	105	210	0	938	338	2072	388.5
LOKI PRIME	175	263	525.5	75	225	555	75	225	555	125	125	262.5	618.75	1780.625	215	265	530	4.5	80	280	560	5	80	280	560	5	135	135	270	7.5	966	347.25	2184	403.375
MAG	125	188	375.5	75	225	555	150	450	1110	100	100	210	900	2423.5	140	190	380	4.5	80	280	560	5	355	555	1110	0	105	105	210	0	1488	588	3172	748.5
MAG PRIME	175	263	525.5	100	300	740	150	450	1110	125	125	262.5	1025	2867.5	215	265	530	4.5	170	370	740	0	355	555	1110	0	135	135	270	7.5	1646.5	621.5	3626	758.5
MESA	100	150	300	125	375	925	75	225	555	100	100	210	800	2312.5	100	150	300	0	265	465	930	5	80	280	560	5	105	105	210	0	1187.75	387.75	2701	388.5
MESA PRIME	125	188	375.5	135	405	999	75	225	555	125	125	262.5	873.75	2613.125	140	190	380	4.5	300	500	1000	1	80	280	560	5	135	135	270	7.5	1285	411.25	3020	406.875
MIRAGE	150	225	450	80	240	592	80	240	592	100	100	210	640	1795.733333	175	225	450	0	100	300	600	8	100	300	600	8	105	105	210	0	1005	365	2220	424.2666667
MIRAGE PRIME	150	225	450	80	240	592	110	330	814	175	175	367.5	820	2402.533333	175	225	450	0	100	300	600	8	210	410	820	6	185	185	370	2.5	1305	485	2980	577.4666667
NEKROS	100	150	300	100	300	740	90	270	666	100	100	210	760	2146	100	150	300	0	170	370	740	0	135	335	670	4	105	105	210	0	1169.5	409.5	2598	452
NEKROS PRIME	125	188	375.5	100	300	740	150	450	1110	125	125	262.5	1025	2867.5	140	190	380	4.5	170	370	740	0	355	555	1110	0	135	135	270	7.5	1646.5	621.5	3626	758.5
NEZHA	150	225	450	125	375	925	50	150	370	190	190	399	812.5	2648.583333	175	225	450	0	265	465	930	5	85	280	560	190	200	200	400	1	1335	522.5	3290	641.4166667
NEZHA PRIME	0	0	0	125	375	925	50	150	370	250	250	525	887.5	3037.083333	0	0	0	0	265	465	930	5	85	280	560	190	265	265	530	5	1435.75	548.25	3693	655.9166667
NIDUS	100	150	300	150	450	1110	0	0	0	300	450	780	1125	3996	100	150	300	0	355	555	1110	0	0	0	0	0	350	450	900	120	1387.5	262.5	4440	444
NIDUS PRIME	125	188	375.5	175	525	1295	0	0	0	350	525	910	1443.75	5223.166667	140	190	380	4.5	450	650	1300	5	0	0	0	0	425	525	1050	140	1787.5	343.75	5850	626.8333333
NOVA	150	225	450	100	300	740	75	225	555	100	100	210	700	1998	175	225	450	0	170	370	740	0	80	280	560	5	105	105	210	0	1059.5	359.5	2378	380
NOVA PRIME	175	263	525.5	100	300	740	100	300	740	125	125	262.5	825	2374.166667	215	265	530	4.5	170	370	740	0	170	370	740	0	135	135	270	7.5	1276.5	451.5	2886	511.8333333
NYX	150	225	450	100	300	740	100	300	740	100	100	210	800	2244.666667	175	225	450	0	170	370	740	0	170	370	740	0	105	105	210	0	1239.5	439.5	2738	493.3333333
NYX PRIME	150	225	450	100	300	740	125	375	925	125	125	262.5	925	2620.833333	175	225	450	0	170	370	740	0	265	465	930	5	135	135	270	7.5	1466.5	541.5	3266	645.1666667
OBERON	150	225	450	125	375	925	100	300	740	175	175	367.5	993.75	3044.791667	175	225	450	0	265	465	930	5	170	370	740	0	185	185	370	2.5	1491.75	498	3557	512.2083333
OBERON PRIME	175	263	525.5	125	375	925	100	300	740	225	225	472.5	1056.25	3368.541667	215	265	530	4.5	265	465	930	5	170	370	740	0	240	240	480	7.5	1577	520.75	3898	529.4583333
OCTAVIA	150	225	450	100	300	740	75	225	555	150	150	315	750	2257	175	225	450	0	170	370	740	0	80	280	560	5	160	160	320	5	1127.333333	377.3333333	2649.333333	392.3333333
OCTAVIA PRIME	175	263	525.5	100	300	740	100	300	740	150	150	315	850	2503.666667	215	265	530	4.5	170	370	740	0	170	370	740	0	160	160	320	5	1307.333333	457.3333333	3009.333333	505.6666667
PROTEA	150	225	450	100	300	740	150	450	1110	125	125	262.5	1025	2867.5	175	225	450	0	170	370	740	0	355	555	1110	0	135	135	270	7.5	1646.5	621.5	3626	758.5
REVENANT	125	188	375.5	100	300	740	225	675	1665	125	125	262.5	1325	3607.5	140	190	380	4.5	170	370	740	0	635	835	1670	5	135	135	270	7.5	2206.5	881.5	4746	1138.5
REVENANT PRIME	150	225	450	100	300	740	250	750	1850	125	125	262.5	1425	3854.166667	175	225	450	0	170	370	740	0	725	925	1850	0	135	135	270	7.5	2386.5	961.5	5106	1251.833333
RHINO	100	150	300	100	300	740	150	450	1110	225	225	472.5	1125	3385.5	100	150	300	0	170	370	740	0	355	555	1110	0	240	240	480	7.5	1776	651	4144	758.5
RHINO PRIME	100	150	300	100	300	740	150	450	1110	275	275	577.5	1175	3644.5	100	150	300	0	170	370	740	0	355	555	1110	0	290	290	580	2.5	1837.666667	662.6666667	4390.666667	746.1666667
SARYN	150	225	450	125	375	925	100	300	740	225	225	472.5	1056.25	3368.541667	175	225	450	0	265	465	930	5	170	370	740	0	240	240	480	7.5	1577	520.75	3898	529.4583333
SARYN PRIME	200	300	600	125	375	925	100	300	740	300	300	630	1150	3854.166667	200	300	600	0	265	465	930	5	170	370	740	0	315	315	630	0	1693.25	543.25	4363	508.8333333
SEVAGOTH	125	188	375.5	100	300	740	90	270	666	150	150	315	810	2405	140	190	380	4.5	170	370	740	0	135	335	670	4	160	160	320	5	1237.333333	427.3333333	2869.333333	464.3333333
SEVAGOTH'S SHADOW	100	150	300	100	300	740	50	6.25	226.25	450	450	945	758.3333333	3372.666667	100	150	300	0	170	370	740	0	85	280	560	333.75	475	475	950	5	1515.833333	757.5	4203.333333	830.6666667
STYANAX	150	225	450	100	300	740	250	750	1850	250	250	525	1550	4501.666667	175	225	450	0	170	370	740	0	725	925	1850	0	265	265	530	5	2546.833333	996.8333333	5747.333333	1245.666667
TITANIA	150	225	450	100	300	740	100	300	740	100	100	210	800	2244.666667	175	225	450	0	170	370	740	0	170	370	740	0	105	105	210	0	1239.5	439.5	2738	493.3333333
TITANIA PRIME	175	263	525.5	125	375	925	100	300	740	125	125	262.5	931.25	2721.041667	215	265	530	4.5	265	465	930	5	170	370	740	0	135	135	270	7.5	1414.25	483	3247	525.9583333
TRINITY	150	225	450	100	300	740	100	300	740	100	100	210	800	2244.666667	175	225	450	0	170	370	740	0	170	370	740	0	105	105	210	0	1239.5	439.5	2738	493.3333333
TRINITY PRIME	150	225	450	100	300	740	150	450	1110	125	125	262.5	1025	2867.5	175	225	450	0	170	370	740	0	355	555	1110	0	135	135	270	7.5	1646.5	621.5	3626	758.5
VALKYR	100	150	300	100	300	740	50	150	370	600	600	1260	1100	4341.333333	100	150	300	0	170	370	740	0	85	280	560	190	630	630	1260	0	1707	607	4968	626.6666667
VALKYR PRIME	150	225	450	100	300	740	50	150	370	700	700	1470	1200	4859.333333	175	225	450	0	170	370	740	0	85	280	560	190	735	735	1470	0	1836.5	636.5	5486	626.6666667
VAUBAN	150	225	450	100	300	740	75	225	555	150	150	315	750	2257	175	225	450	0	170	370	740	0	80	280	560	5	160	160	320	5	1127.333333	377.3333333	2649.333333	392.3333333
VAUBAN PRIME	150	225	450	100	300	740	100	300	740	200	200	420	900	2762.666667	175	225	450	0	170	370	740	0	170	370	740	0	210	210	420	0	1369	469	3256	493.3333333
VOLT	100	150	300	100	300	740	150	450	1110	100	100	210	1000	2738	100	150	300	0	170	370	740	0	355	555	1110	0	105	105	210	0	1609.5	609.5	3478	740
VOLT PRIME	200	300	600	100	300	740	150	450	1110	125	125	262.5	1025	2867.5	200	300	600	0	170	370	740	0	355	555	1110	0	135	135	270	7.5	1646.5	621.5	3626	758.5
VORUNA	100	150	300	150	450	1110	100	300	740	190	190	399	1135	3572.966667	100	150	300	0	355	555	1110	0	170	370	740	0	200	200	400	1	1665	530	4070	497.0333333
WISP	200	300	600	100	300	740	75	225	555	175	175	367.5	775	2386.5	200	300	600	0	170	370	740	0	80	280	560	5	185	185	370	2.5	1158.166667	383.1666667	2772.666667	386.1666667
WISP PRIME	200	300	600	100	300	740	100	300	740	200	200	420	900	2762.666667	200	300	600	0	170	370	740	0	170	370	740	0	210	210	420	0	1369	469	3256	493.3333333
WUKONG	120	180	360	150	450	1110	100	300	740	250	250	525	1225	4039.166667	130	180	360	0	355	555	1110	0	170	370	740	0	265	265	530	5	1785.25	560.25	4551	511.8333333
WUKONG PRIME	130	195	390	150	450	1110	120	360	888	275	275	577.5	1342.5	4430.75	145	195	390	0	355	555	1110	0	245	445	890	2	290	290	580	2.5	1981.5	639	5036	605.25
XAKU	153	230	459.5	97	291	717.8	89	267	658.6	137	137	287.7	779.89	2284.303533	160	230	460	0.5	269	469	938	220.2	239	329	658	-0.6	145	145	290	2.3	1353.683333	573.7933333	3160.733333	876.4298
YARELI	200	300	600	100	300	740	150	450	1110	100	100	210	1000	2738	200	300	600	0	170	370	740	0	355	555	1110	0	105	105	210	0	1609.5	609.5	3478	740
ZEPHYR	100	150	300	150	450	1110	150	450	1110	100	100	210	1200	3367	100	150	300	0	355	555	1110	0	355	555	1110	0	105	105	210	0	1859.25	659.25	4107	740
ZEPHYR PRIME	150	225	450	150	450	1110	150	450	1110	125	125	262.5	1237.5	3561.25	175	225	450	0	355	555	1110	0	355	555	1110	0	135	135	270	7.5	1914.75	677.25	4329	767.75

And for a key on field names:

Spoiler

FIELD	DESC
frame	Warframe Name
bE(o)	Base Energy Old
mE(o)	Max-Level Energy Old
+Flow (old)	Max-Level Energy with Max Rank Flow Mod Equipped (Old)
bH(o)	Base Health Old
mH(o)	Max-Level Health Old
+Vitality (old)	Max-Level Health with Max Rank Vitality Mod Equipped (Old)
bS(o)	Base Shields Old
mS(o)	Max-Level Shields Old
+Redirection (old)	Max-Level Shields with Max Rank Redirection Mod Equipped (Old)
bA(o)	Base Armor Old
mA(o)	Max-Level Armor Old
+Steel Fiber (old)	Max-Level Armor with Max Rank Steel Fiber Mod Equipped (Old)
EHP (old)	Effective Hit Points with No Mods Equipped (Old)
Mod EHP (old)	Effective Hit Points with Max Rank Vitality, Redirection, and Steel Fiber Equipped (Old)
bE(n)	Base Energy New
mE(n)	Max-Level Energy New
+Flow (new)	Max-Level Energy with Max Rank Flow Mod Equipped (New)
Energy +/-	Change in Max-Level Energy with Max Rank Flow Mod Equipped from Old to New
bH(n)	Base Health New
mH(n)	Max-Level Health New
+Vitality (new)	Max-Level Health with Max Rank Vitality Mod Equipped (New)
Health +/-	Change in Max-Level Health with Max Rank Vitality Mod Equipped from Old to New
bS(n)	Base Shields New
mS(n)	Max-Level Shields New
+Redirection (new)	Max-Level Shields with Max Rank Redirection Mod Equipped (New)
Shields +/-	Change in Max-Level Shields with Max Rank Redirection Mod Equipped from Old to New
bA(n)	Base Armor New
mA(n)	Max-Level Armor New
+Steel Fiber (new)	Max-Level Armor with Max Rank Steel Fiber Mod Equipped (New)
Armor +/-	Change in Max-Level Armor with Max Rank Steel Fiber Mod Equipped from Old to New
EHP (new)	Effective Hit Points with No Mods Equipped (New)
EHP +/-	Change in Effective Hit Points with No Mods Equipped from Old to New
Mod EHP (new)	Effective Hit Points with Max Rank Vitality, Redirection, and Steel Fiber Equipped (New)
Mod EHP +/-	Change in Effective Hit Points with Max Rank Vitality, Redirection, and Steel Fiber Equipped from Old to new

I also calculated what I call "Naked EHP" (your EHP after your shields have been stripped) both with and without the three big mods. In that case Lavos was the only one losing "Naked EHP" when no mods were equipped, and Grendel was the only one losing "Naked EHP" when mods were equipped.

But in conclusion, it's generally positive for all frames.

Edited September 30, 2023 by (NSW)Probably_Asleep
going to just repost

[--Q--ProjectX]

The only complain here is that the new shieldgate mod should be an exilus.

Apart from that terrible thing, the rest is amazing 🫡😀

[Ardhanarishvara]

Just while Hildryn's name is on the table... don't run away, this isn't a rework, I promise, just one small issue and a bunch of potential small-scale solutions.

I appreciate that Hildryn's personal shield gate is going up in time as a result of these changes to continue cementing her as the apex example of shields, but even with shield resistances getting buffed, Hildryn will continue to have an issue of 'three fourths of her kit are turned off and crucial combat time must be spent reactivating them if all her shields get shot off.' This is especially deleterious given one of those abilities is an exalted weapon, which should by all rights be a weapon she utilizes regularly.

This issue becomes more and more prominent the higher level enemies you deal with, and make it incredibly difficult to utilize any portion of her kit that isn't Pillage and only Pillage after a certain point. Obviously the changes to damage resistances help within steel path star chart range, but endurance range is pretty shot all the same, especially in the Circuit where you don't have to do crazy endurance durations to hit ridiculous enemy levels.

I have a few different thoughts on my mind as to how this could be addressed with relatively minimal effort:

1. Given that the direct benefit of Haven for Hildryn herself is pretty much nonexistent - that it pretty much is just there to buff allies and for enemies to ignore outside of increasing the cost, maybe in this modern day of Overguard existing, enemies killed whilst linked by Haven can give, let's say, 60 Overguard to Hildryn? Making this an augment would feel like such a band-aid, and would make it pretty much a mandatory mod, I hope this gets considered as base Haven functionality given there's basically no reason to use it outside of obscenely low level content and high level players are pretty individualistic and typically out of range.
    
2. Alternatively, energy orbs could give Hildryn 'mini-gates' that act as consumed charges, operating in a similar manner to Mesmer Skin or Health Conversion charges, that prevent her shields from being damaged by enemies below the 500 point, and have a short duration before the next charge can be consumed. The shields could still be consumed by abilities, of course, but anything to shore up actually being able to continue using more than just one ability in her kit at high levels would be exceedingly helpful, and actually running out would be more down to player forgetfulness and tactical awareness.
    
3. Maybe her abilities simply only turn off once her shield gate ends, while during her shield gate ability costs are free, giving her a three second window to Pillage before everything shuts down.
    
4. Perhaps energy orbs could function as a 'reserve battery', which might operate similarly to Nidus' 'Undying' or a version of the Sentinel's "Guardian" precept: Hildryn could hold up to 5 charges of Reserve Battery, which would instantly bump Hildryn's shields back up to 300 every time they hit 2 shields with a 0.1 second shield gate. Reserve Battery could also be consumed by Toxin attacks attempting to bypass her non-overguard shields, maybe? Although I admit that is pretty similar to the second idea, just more complicated, maybe...

There's a bunch of options to achieve the same result without a full rework. Just food for thought.

[x-cessive]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb --Q--ProjectX:

The only complain here is that the new shieldgate mod should be an exilus.

Apart from that terrible thing, the rest is amazing 🫡😀

I dont think it should be an exilus mod. Exilus mods are usually movement related or give some other form of QOL, but dont (significantly) alter WF stats.

The new shieldgate mod DOES significantly alter how the shield stat plays, so it should not be an exilus mod.

Edited September 29, 2023 by x-cessive

[Numerounius]

3 hours ago, MobyTheDuck said:

Yeah, I can respect that. My problem here is that this Shield Gate exploit was used to AFK leech, I've seen many people using this to be able to AFK in a corner of the map when paired with a slow or stun.

I hardly see anyone use shield gate to justify AFK leech, if any at all. Heck if I wanted to afk leech I'd do any other method than shield gating that requires constant attention. Invis, Drifter crouch, high EHP etc.

Shield gating abuse requires you to literally stare at your shield bar and press the roll key than ability key the moment it breaks, which is the complete opposite of being AFK.

[staranow]

@[DE]Taylor I don't see Nezha Prime Energy listed, was there any changes to it?

[x-cessive]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb Ardhanarishvara:

Just while Hildryn's name is on the table... don't run away, this isn't a rework, I promise, just one small issue and a bunch of potential small-scale solutions.

I appreciate that Hildryn's personal shield gate is going up in time as a result of these changes to continue cementing her as the apex example of shields, but even with shield resistances getting buffed, Hildryn will continue to have an issue of 'three fourths of her kit are turned off and crucial combat time must be spent reactivating them if all her shields get shot off.' This is especially deleterious given one of those abilities is an exalted weapon, which should by all rights be a weapon she utilizes regularly.

This issue becomes more and more prominent the higher level enemies you deal with, and make it incredibly difficult to utilize any portion of her kit that isn't Pillage and only Pillage after a certain point. Obviously the changes to damage resistances help within steel path star chart range, but endurance range is pretty shot all the same, especially in the Circuit where you don't have to do crazy endurance durations to hit ridiculous enemy levels.

I have a few different thoughts on my mind as to how this could be addressed with relatively minimal effort:

1. Given that the direct benefit of Haven for Hildryn herself is pretty much nonexistent - that it pretty much is just there to buff allies and for enemies to ignore outside of increasing the cost, maybe in this modern day of Overguard existing, enemies killed whilst linked by Haven can give, let's say, 60 Overguard to Hildryn? Making this an augment would feel like such a band-aid, and would make it pretty much a mandatory mod, I hope this gets considered as base Haven functionality given there's basically no reason to use it outside of obscenely low level content and high level players are pretty individualistic and typically out of range.
    
2. Alternatively, energy orbs could give Hildryn 'mini-gates' that act as consumed charges, operating in a similar manner to Mesmer Skin or Health Conversion charges, that prevent her shields from being damaged by enemies below the 500 point, and have a short duration before the next charge can be consumed. The shields could still be consumed by abilities, of course, but anything to shore up actually being able to continue using more than just one ability in her kit at high levels would be exceedingly helpful, and actually running out would be more down to player forgetfulness and tactical awareness.
    
3. Maybe her abilities simply only turn off once her shield gate ends, while during her shield gate ability costs are free, giving her a three second window to Pillage before everything shuts down.
    
4. Perhaps energy orbs could function as a 'reserve battery', which might operate similarly to Nidus' 'Undying' or a version of the Sentinel's "Guardian" precept: Hildryn could hold up to 5 charges of Reserve Battery, which would instantly bump Hildryn's shields back up to 300 every time they hit 2 shields with a 0.1 second shield gate. Reserve Battery could also be consumed by Toxin attacks attempting to bypass her non-overguard shields, maybe? Although I admit that is pretty similar to the second idea, just more complicated, maybe...

There's a bunch of options to achieve the same result without a full rework. Just food for thought.

I thought about suggesting a second shield gate for Hildryn that activates at 50% of her max shield, which could maybe solve some of her issues, but i really like your ideas as well -  especially the Reserve Battery. 

[Ardhanarishvara]

3 minutes ago, x-cessive said:

I thought about suggesting a second shield gate for Hildryn that activates at 50% of her max shield, which could maybe solve some of her issues, but i really like your ideas as well -  especially the Reserve Battery. 

I was literally just about to go back to edit my post to include "5. A 0.1s mini-gate every 1,500 shields, getting potentially up to three from getting overshields over 4500"

[ShogunGunshow]

2 hours ago, SDGDen said:

i just said it *shouldnt* be balanced around steel path.

Well it's nice to live in that fantasy land. And we did have that once upon a time. But the moment DE started locking content and drops behind Steel Path, its existence as a 'just for bragging rights' mode got thrown in the dumpster.

[Tiltskillet]

33 minutes ago, (NSW)Probably_Asleep said:

Ran the numbers:

frame	EHP (no Mods)	EHP (w/ Mods)
ASH	1489 (+489)	3367 (+493)
ASH PRIME	1827 (+615)	4339 (+636)
ATLAS	1696 (+546)	4563 (+506)
ATLAS PRIME	2843 (+887)	7853 (+772)
BANSHEE	1240 (+440)	2738 (+493)
BANSHEE PRIME	1277 (+452)	2886 (+512)
BARUUK	1193 (+436)	2731 (+509)
BARUUK PRIME	1434 (+540)	3316 (+654)
CALIBAN	2028 (+753)	4771 (+880)
CHROMA	1566 (+516)	4045 (+506)
CHROMA PRIME	1665 (+540)	4440 (+512)
CITRINE	1682 (+539)	4247 (+513)
EMBER	1277 (+452)	2886 (+512)
EMBER PRIME	1497 (+547)	3389 (+639)
EQUINOX	1277 (+452)	2886 (+512)
EQUINOX PRIME	1453 (+491)	3402 (+519)
EXCALIBUR	1406 (+481)	3404 (+512)
EXCALIBUR PRIME	1499 (+499)	3774 (+493)
EXCALIBUR UMBRA	1499 (+499)	3774 (+493)
FROST	1869 (+669)	4514 (+740)
FROST PRIME	2059 (+759)	4894 (+873)
GARA	1307 (+457)	3009 (+506)
GARA PRIME	1482 (+494)	3557 (+501)
GARUDA	1499 (+499)	3774 (+493)
GARUDA PRIME	1628 (+528)	4292 (+493)
GAUSS	1708 (+633)	3873 (+746)
GRENDEL	2747 (+372)	8319 (-863)
GYRE	1800 (+700)	3858 (+873)
HARROW	1708 (+633)	3873 (+746)
HARROW PRIME	1898 (+723)	4253 (+879)
HILDRYN	4134 (+1584)	8856 (+2396)
HILDRYN PRIME	4519 (+1702)	9814 (+2517)
HYDROID	1596 (+571)	3784 (+645)
HYDROID PRIME	2028 (+753)	4771 (+880)
INAROS	3888 (+38)	11232 (-665)
INAROS PRIME	5427 (+1402)	15678 (+3241)
IVARA	1118 (+418)	2432 (+502)
IVARA PRIME	1516 (+597)	3284 (+763)
KHORA	1655 (+536)	4208 (+516)
KHORA PRIME	1930 (+649)	4929 (+666)
KULLERVO	3341 (+253)	11253 (+772)
LAVOS	2495 (+145)	7420 (-819)
LIMBO	1060 (+360)	2378 (+380)
LIMBO PRIME	1277 (+452)	2886 (+512)
LOKI	938 (+338)	2072 (+389)
LOKI PRIME	966 (+347)	2184 (+403)
MAG	1488 (+588)	3172 (+749)
MAG PRIME	1647 (+622)	3626 (+759)
MESA	1188 (+388)	2701 (+389)
MESA PRIME	1285 (+411)	3020 (+407)
MIRAGE	1005 (+365)	2220 (+424)
MIRAGE PRIME	1305 (+485)	2980 (+577)
NEKROS	1170 (+410)	2598 (+452)
NEKROS PRIME	1647 (+622)	3626 (+759)
NEZHA	1335 (+523)	3290 (+641)
NEZHA PRIME	1436 (+548)	3693 (+656)
NIDUS	1388 (+263)	4440 (+444)
NIDUS PRIME	1788 (+344)	5850 (+627)
NOVA	1060 (+360)	2378 (+380)
NOVA PRIME	1277 (+452)	2886 (+512)
NYX	1240 (+440)	2738 (+493)
NYX PRIME	1467 (+542)	3266 (+645)
OBERON	1492 (+498)	3557 (+512)
OBERON PRIME	1577 (+521)	3898 (+529)
OCTAVIA	1127 (+377)	2649 (+392)
OCTAVIA PRIME	1307 (+457)	3009 (+506)
PROTEA	1647 (+622)	3626 (+759)
REVENANT	2207 (+882)	4746 (+1139)
REVENANT PRIME	2387 (+962)	5106 (+1252)
RHINO	1776 (+651)	4144 (+759)
RHINO PRIME	1838 (+663)	4391 (+746)
SARYN	1577 (+521)	3898 (+529)
SARYN PRIME	1693 (+543)	4363 (+509)
SEVAGOTH	1237 (+427)	2869 (+464)
SEVAGOTH'S SHADOW	1516 (+758)	4203 (+831)
STYANAX	2547 (+997)	5747 (+1246)
TITANIA	1240 (+440)	2738 (+493)
TITANIA PRIME	1414 (+483)	3247 (+526)
TRINITY	1240 (+440)	2738 (+493)
TRINITY PRIME	1647 (+622)	3626 (+759)
VALKYR	1707 (+607)	4968 (+627)
VALKYR PRIME	1837 (+637)	5486 (+627)
VAUBAN	1127 (+377)	2649 (+392)
VAUBAN PRIME	1369 (+469)	3256 (+493)
VOLT	1610 (+610)	3478 (+740)
VOLT PRIME	1647 (+622)	3626 (+759)
VORUNA	1665 (+530)	4070 (+497)
WISP	1158 (+383)	2773 (+386)
WISP PRIME	1369 (+469)	3256 (+493)
WUKONG	1785 (+560)	4551 (+512)
WUKONG PRIME	1982 (+639)	5036 (+605)
XAKU	1354 (+574)	3161 (+876)
YARELI	1610 (+610)	3478 (+740)
ZEPHYR	1859 (+659)	4107 (+740)
ZEPHYR PRIME	1915 (+677)	4329 (+768)

So for the most part the frames are all getting a boost to their EHP, but Grendel, Inaros, and Lavos lose EHP after Mods*.
^{*-The Mods in this case are a max-rank Vitality, Redirection, and Steel Fiber}

Thanks for sharing this.

[ShogunGunshow]

Also uh.

I wonder how these new mods that reduce shield delay combine with Vazarin. 

For those that don't know, Vazarin has a node called 'Guardian Break' where when the shield it conjures is broken, the Warframe enjoys 8 seconds of 150% regeneration rate and a 90% reduction in Shield delay.

If that stacks additively with the mods, that'd be over 100% reduction in shield delay. So basically a shorter Arcane Aegis (8s vs. Aegis' 12), but on demand. But also needs set-up whereas Aegis is automatic.

I guess that's ... okay?

Is Vazarin finally taking its place as the ultimate survival school?

[Temragon]

Fantastic changes overall. Glad to see heavy shield gating integrated and polished as a mechanic, and the rest of the changes are welcome. Very happy for so much QoL in this update.

[1manApocalypse]

32 minutes ago, Ardhanarishvara said:

Just while Hildryn's name is on the table... don't run away, this isn't a rework, I promise, just one small issue and a bunch of potential small-scale solutions.

I appreciate that Hildryn's personal shield gate is going up in time as a result of these changes to continue cementing her as the apex example of shields, but even with shield resistances getting buffed, Hildryn will continue to have an issue of 'three fourths of her kit are turned off and crucial combat time must be spent reactivating them if all her shields get shot off.' This is especially deleterious given one of those abilities is an exalted weapon, which should by all rights be a weapon she utilizes regularly.

This issue becomes more and more prominent the higher level enemies you deal with, and make it incredibly difficult to utilize any portion of her kit that isn't Pillage and only Pillage after a certain point. Obviously the changes to damage resistances help within steel path star chart range, but endurance range is pretty shot all the same, especially in the Circuit where you don't have to do crazy endurance durations to hit ridiculous enemy levels.

I have a few different thoughts on my mind as to how this could be addressed with relatively minimal effort:

1. Given that the direct benefit of Haven for Hildryn herself is pretty much nonexistent - that it pretty much is just there to buff allies and for enemies to ignore outside of increasing the cost, maybe in this modern day of Overguard existing, enemies killed whilst linked by Haven can give, let's say, 60 Overguard to Hildryn? Making this an augment would feel like such a band-aid, and would make it pretty much a mandatory mod, I hope this gets considered as base Haven functionality given there's basically no reason to use it outside of obscenely low level content and high level players are pretty individualistic and typically out of range.
    
2. Alternatively, energy orbs could give Hildryn 'mini-gates' that act as consumed charges, operating in a similar manner to Mesmer Skin or Health Conversion charges, that prevent her shields from being damaged by enemies below the 500 point, and have a short duration before the next charge can be consumed. The shields could still be consumed by abilities, of course, but anything to shore up actually being able to continue using more than just one ability in her kit at high levels would be exceedingly helpful, and actually running out would be more down to player forgetfulness and tactical awareness.
    
3. Maybe her abilities simply only turn off once her shield gate ends, while during her shield gate ability costs are free, giving her a three second window to Pillage before everything shuts down.
    
4. Perhaps energy orbs could function as a 'reserve battery', which might operate similarly to Nidus' 'Undying' or a version of the Sentinel's "Guardian" precept: Hildryn could hold up to 5 charges of Reserve Battery, which would instantly bump Hildryn's shields back up to 300 every time they hit 2 shields with a 0.1 second shield gate. Reserve Battery could also be consumed by Toxin attacks attempting to bypass her non-overguard shields, maybe? Although I admit that is pretty similar to the second idea, just more complicated, maybe...

There's a bunch of options to achieve the same result without a full rework. Just food for thought.

r/theydidthemath

Would be nice if the ones getting slight nerfs had the numbers adjusted to be more in line with the rest.

[SteveCutler]

Can you please take a look at giving Quality of Life changes for the following?

• Parazon/Mercy kills: Currently enemies die way too quickly, so it's almost impossible to perform these. The best candidates for Mercy kills are Eximus units, but their Overguard bar makes up the vast majority of their EHP. As soon as Overguard goes down and they become eligible for a Mercy kill, they instantly die to whatever chip damage. Many people have suggested that you just make enemies take a knee and become invincible for five seconds, before properly dying. That would be so much better.
   
• Affinity range: The current affinity range is far too low. It's outdated and hasn't kept pace with modern Warframe. Warframe is a fast-paced looter shooter. Players are encouraged to spread out in these large tilesets to search & destroy the enemy. Having such a tiny affinity radius goes against this gameplay design. It's hard to support other players with affinity range based abilities, and it's inefficient to level up gear, because everyone is always spread out! If you want to level up gear, the game actually encourages standing around and leeching, because to get the most out of the tiny affinity range you have to find somewhere central to stand (i.e. between all the allies, away from all the enemies) to leech exp. Make affinity range infinite like in Railjack missions, or significantly buff it.
   
• Vaulting: In 99% of cases, when a player performs a vault it's unintentional. I'd go so far as to say it's 100% of the time for most players. There's literally no need for vaulting in today's Warframe, with all the mobility that we have. It's simply a relic of the past and massively outdated. It's even obsoleted by another existing mechanic: wall jumping. If you somehow miss your jump, you can already just use a wall jump to get back up. There's literally no need for vaulting. It frustrates so many players. Please just remove vaulting entirely, or provide an option in the game's settings to disable it.

[MortalMercenary]

3 hours ago, Crevab said:

GARUDA PRIME
Health: Base Rank - 170 (from 100) / Max Rank - 370 (from 300)
Shields: Base Rank - 170 (from 100) / Max Rank - 370 (from 300)
Armor: Base Rank - 420 (from 400)
Energy: Base Rank - 220 (from 160) / Max Rank - 320 (from 360)

 

Unless I'm mistake, Garuda Prime is the only Prime to get an energy nerf? But why?

Edit: Upon re-reading the whole list I guess she was a bit of an outlier

 

 

Also now is the time to make 190 energy the new floor for Primes. Save Ash, Frost, and Rhino I beg of you

She got an max rank nerf to her energy because of the new math on how energy mods work. without the nerf she would have 1008 energy with just primed flow. With the slight nerf and new math with primed flow she will have 896 energy which still makes her the frame with the most energy with or without primed flow.