Lately DE_ Pablo has given a lot of love. More gifts for the next update.

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

On 2023-10-10 at 8:46 AM, PR1D3 said:

I actually think she could use one more change. She’s all melee but her 3 does incentivize headshots for energy orbs. There are a few things for headshot multipliers & she does somewhat incentivize snipers (given her signature is a sniper) but it would be cool if shroud gave a headshot buff that worked similarly to the melee buff. Not a deal breaker as the melee 4 kill is greatly going to flesh out the last bit of her kit.

I’m glad others recognize that Banshee needs some love. Just her having hard animations on all her abilities can be brutal. People are too quick to hand wave any updates because sonar exists. Yes it’s a nice ability but taking otp to an extreme degree doesn’t negate the design issues of the kit as a whole.

This. Honestly out of all the dumb perspectives the WF community has it’s the “it doesn’t matter if x part of the kit sucks, it’s a free helminth slot”. I’m open about my disdain for the helminth system and I’m glad Pablo has the position that a kit should be complete & function on its own. Helminth was/is a bandaid solution that in a world of proper planning doesn’t need to exist in game. I know a lot would be diametrically opposed to that.

I can't tell you how tired I get of explaining Atlas for example, who literally has two completely worthless abilities, but because Landslide and Petrify are decent, everything else is.

Uh, no, no they're not. Bulwark is singlehandedly the worst defense ability in the game and should be gutted entirely in a Rework or replaced. Rumblers are also fairly useless and require an Augment just to do something as basic as guaranteed aggro draw while they have no damage and an annoying duration limit. Rubble is a great Passive, but the drain is quite egregious and forces nigh constant casting on a 75 or 100 Energy ability, which is just obtuse and needs to be addressed. The Rumbled Augment is only worth using for the Overguard, but it does a bunch of weird things like movement penalties and it's atrocious melee only schtick that needs some kind of leeway to make it useful. Path of Statues could really use an Oberon 4 Augment treatment wherein the stuff left behind becomes a larger and more visible AoE. Like come on, he has so many problems.

 

Other Warframes should definitely be addressed first, but come on, you can't sit there and tell me you see your Rumblers put in work if you actually pay attention to what they're doing.

Edited October 11, 2023 by (XBOX)Graysmog

[Aruquae]

14 minutes ago, (XBOX)Graysmog said:

I can't tell you how tired I get of explaining Atlas for example, who literally has two completely worthless abilities, but because Landslide and Petrify are decent, everything else is.

Uh, no, no they're not. Bulwark is singlehandedly the worst defense ability in the game and should be gutted entirely in a Rework or replaced. Rumblers are also fairly useless and require an Augment just to do something as basic as guaranteed aggro draw while they have no damage and an annoying duration limit. Rubble is a great Passive, but the drain is quite egregious and forces nigh constant casting on a 75 or 100 Energy ability, which is just obtuse and needs to be addressed. The Rumbled Augment is only worth using for the Overguard, but it does a bunch of weird things like movement penalties and it's atrocious melee only schtick that needs some kind of leeway to make it useful. Path of Statues could really use an Oberon 4 Augment treatment wherein the stuff left behind becomes a larger and more visible AoE. Like come on, he has so many problems.

 

Other Warframes should definitely be addressed first, but come on, you can't sit there and tell me you see your Rumblers put in work if you actually pay attention to what they're doing.

^This

It’s so odd how Hydorid is constantly brought up for reworks but then you got Atlas….

Props for Hydroid rework, but when are they going to give the rock hard warframe a chance?

[Joezone619]

Please tell me vaccum and radar mods are finally gonna work while using operator.

[Qriist]

On 2023-10-08 at 12:32 AM, (PSN)rexis12 said:

Hell Nezha now has a much easier time with Energy with the new Equilibrium because sometimes I kill too fast that I still have full health and there's all this Health Orbs that could've been used to restore the energy that I used.

For real. My Nezha gets real sad in the Circuit because of all the tasty orbs he's missing out on.

 

On 2023-10-10 at 12:23 PM, PR1D3 said:

It’s effectively the “Roar/Pillage/Gloom/Breach Surge” system.

Which is weird to me. I have used each of those in builds but I also mess around with other infusions to better synergize with that warframe's kit.

Some examples that come to mind are:

• Fracturing Blast on Xaku (good for staying topped up when traveling through an exterminate)
• Xata's Whisper on Titania (gives Razorwing some much needed AOE)
• Coil Horizon on Protea (groups non-eximus enemies to better scale turrets, which in turn makes them hit eximus harder).

[Hexerin]

3 hours ago, (XBOX)Graysmog said:

I can't tell you how tired I get of explaining Atlas for example, who literally has two completely worthless abilities, but because Landslide and Petrify are decent, everything else is.

Uh, no, no they're not. Bulwark is singlehandedly the worst defense ability in the game and should be gutted entirely in a Rework or replaced. Rumblers are also fairly useless and require an Augment just to do something as basic as guaranteed aggro draw while they have no damage and an annoying duration limit. Rubble is a great Passive, but the drain is quite egregious and forces nigh constant casting on a 75 or 100 Energy ability, which is just obtuse and needs to be addressed. The Rumbled Augment is only worth using for the Overguard, but it does a bunch of weird things like movement penalties and it's atrocious melee only schtick that needs some kind of leeway to make it useful. Path of Statues could really use an Oberon 4 Augment treatment wherein the stuff left behind becomes a larger and more visible AoE. Like come on, he has so many problems.

 

Other Warframes should definitely be addressed first, but come on, you can't sit there and tell me you see your Rumblers put in work if you actually pay attention to what they're doing.

3 hours ago, Malikili said:

^This

It’s so odd how Hydorid is constantly brought up for reworks but then you got Atlas….

Props for Hydroid rework, but when are they going to give the rock hard warframe a chance?

Coughs in Trinity

[PR1D3]

2 hours ago, Qriist said:

Which is weird to me. I have used each of those in builds but I also mess around with other infusions to better synergize with that warframe's kit.

Some examples that come to mind are:

• Fracturing Blast on Xaku (good for staying topped up when traveling through an exterminate)
• Xata's Whisper on Titania (gives Razorwing some much needed AOE)
• Coil Horizon on Protea (groups non-eximus enemies to better scale turrets, which in turn makes them hit eximus harder).

Yeah. It's just unfortunate that's how it plays out. The sweaty meta players set the tone and the masses follow. You can see this happen a lot on Region Chat in game. I like to experiment too, but there's that subsection who's response to everything is why use X when Y does it faster and easier.

Just now, Hexerin said:

Coughs in Trinity

LMFAO Fair enough

A lot of frames need some degree of TLC. Cause now that I think about it, Trinity has the same problem that I have with Banshee, as all her abilities have hard animations if you cast on the ground. I would love a Trinity Rework. I tend to gravitate towards Support Frames, and Trinity is an OG. She definitely deserves something.

[Roble_Viejo]

¡¡¡ PRAISED BE [DE] PABLO !!!

[CosoMalvadoNG]

Is DE considering changes to the elemental damage table?
It's a question, but not a question.

Edited October 11, 2023 by CosoMalvadoNG

[PR1D3]

1 hour ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

Is DE considering changes to the elemental damage table?
It's a question, but not a question.

I've always said that they should look at those multipliers if they ever actually address the damage scaling across the game. That and re looking at status effects and durations. Viral is insanely good for a reason. And WFs should be able to inflict more status effects with abilities, too many deal none despite it would greatly help. Given that some effects are only good if you can put max stacks on enemies with minimum casts. 

[ShogunGunshow]

2 hours ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

Is DE considering changes to the elemental damage table?
It's a question, but not a question.

The answer is almost never because there's little reason to adjust for elemental weaknesses when the viral bonus is right there, many times larger than the largest elemental weakness that any faction has.

They wanna change that, they gotta do a Status 3.0, and Viral has to get piledrivered into the earth. 

[Hexerin]

Honestly, I'd prefer elemental mods to be based on the weapon's actual base damage, not it's modded base damage. This innately forces elemental mods to scale a weapon the same as physical mods, and makes balancing both significantly easier. Also, it makes the physical mods actually usable in the first place, and not a trap that new players fall into anymore. My god, you lose so much damage by using the physical mods...

Additionally, the player should be able to choose whether or not to combine elements.

[(PSN)rexis12]

33 minutes ago, ShogunGunshow said:

The answer is almost never because there's little reason to adjust for elemental weaknesses when the viral bonus is right there, many times larger than the largest elemental weakness that any faction has.

They wanna change that, they gotta do a Status 3.0, and Viral has to get piledrivered into the earth. 

There also the difference in the EHP of enemies with Ferrite armor, and well armor in general, compared to... ANYTHING ELSE.

The fact that a basic Lancer, only has 1/2 the EHP of a Field Boss while a crewman has 1/20 is a sign that something is really wrong with Armor Scaling.

Hell, this is JUST Lancer. The Heavy Gunners have 6 Mil EHP at the same level. A basic mini-boss has like 7x the EHP and is only not as tough due to Damage Attenuation of Acolytes which makes the even weaker elements EVEN MORE weaker.

[ShogunGunshow]

45 minutes ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

There also the difference in the EHP of enemies with Ferrite armor, and well armor in general, compared to... ANYTHING ELSE.

The fact that a basic Lancer, only has 1/2 the EHP of a Field Boss while a crewman has 1/20 is a sign that something is really wrong with Armor Scaling.

Hell, this is JUST Lancer. The Heavy Gunners have 6 Mil EHP at the same level. A basic mini-boss has like 7x the EHP and is only not as tough due to Damage Attenuation of Acolytes which makes the even weaker elements EVEN MORE weaker.

Indeed. Any rebalance of status in Status 3.0 almost by necessity has to be paired with a complete rethink of how enemy armor works and an adjustment of enemy EHP in general.

We've been here before once already. Unless we want to just have the exact same problem in a few years, when escalating enemy levels render the latest stopgap measures ineffective, whatever change is made has gotta be more dramatic.

[Hexerin]

IMO, all weapons should have an innate armor strip stat, allowing every weapon to strip armor off targets and lessen the absolute requirement of armor stripping abilities on frames. This would scale based on the weapon of course. Low damage full autos would only strip small amounts on every hit, while a slow but heavy hitting sniper rifle could rip off a huge percentage of the target's armor. This would also open up the field for mods that affect this stripping stat.

A side effect of this would also be that armored enemies would feel like fighting Corpus. You don't have the regeneration of the shields (so any damage you deal would actually stick to the armored enemy), however the armored enemy would take significantly less damage initially (whereas Corpus take consistent damage regardless of their level). So there would still be a difference in the gameplay, keeping engagement high.

Edited October 12, 2023 by Hexerin

[Roble_Viejo]

hace 13 horas, CosoMalvadoNG dijo:

Is DE considering changes to the elemental damage table?
It's a question, but not a question.

[DE] Pablo should have asked
"Do you use the same Elemental Combinations on All your
Weapons or do you Build different Weapons for each Faction"

Because I never change my Build between Missions but as a Rule of Thumb:
- My Primary is always Modded for Grineer (Corrosive / Radiation)
- My Secondary for Corpus (Toxin / Gas) or Priming (Viral / Heat)
- And my Melee for Infested/Anything (Raw DMG)

[SneakyErvin]

21 hours ago, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

With playable Stalker having Marked for Death, I'm wondering if we're going to see more Warframes get these Abilities in there kits, or some sort of altered version.

I mean in the AMA that DE did a few months ago and at Tennocon, they've mentioned that they are doing a "Stalker Themed Update"

Which lends me to believe Stalker could become a Warframe in are aresonal. Now I hope that if he does his kit is reworked to be more unique then what his kit is in Duviri but with that in mind they could also use these other Helminth Abilities in future Warframe kits.

So Stalker could get Marked, then the next warframe gets Parasitic Armor or "insert Helminth ability here" and so on.

If they follow the Stalker idea of making the skill better on the frame that gets it then yeah. If they just add the Helminth skill as is, no. Like in the case of Stalker, his Marked is miles better than Marked for Death, since Marked stores all damage dealt to the target until it dies at which point it deals the AoE. Marked for Death however only deals AoE damage based on the first damage instance that hits the target after it is applied.

So Marked is the prison approach skill, go for the biggest guy and the smaller ones will never bother you, cos well in this case they are dead aswell...

[Void2258]

Any word on default sprint? It's really annoying having to remember to turn sprint back on at the start of every mission, every time you get out of archwing, etc. Not sprinting is the exception, not the rule.

[Aruquae]

19 hours ago, Hexerin said:

Coughs in Trinity

I used Trinity like once… care to elaborate? I know the basis of the abilities, but never actually played enough to understand the true feel of it.

[sunderthefirmament]

6 hours ago, Malikili said:

I used Trinity like once… care to elaborate? I know the basis of the abilities, but never actually played enough to understand the true feel of it.

I'm not the one you quoted, but I can offer a bit of perspective on Trinity.  She has her uses, but she's too clunky for modern Warframe.  All of her abilities fully stop her (full body casts).  To make matters worse, her durations are very, very low by default.  They don't feel as comfortable as more recent Warframes with buffs.  Even heavily investing in duration isn't enough, and it's not like you really can with Trinity anyway, at least not heavily.  She is famously tight on mod space due to basically needing everything, especially if you want to use her armor strip Link augment.  She even needs casting speed to help ameliorate her full body casting issues that I mentioned above.

 

I don't think Trinity needs a massive rework.  Instead, I'd suggest:

• doubling the durations of Link and Blessing at base, or even quadrupling them
• changing most of her abilities to upper body casts only (to allow movement while casting)
• consider some synergies like "killing a Well of Life target adds X seconds to active Link and Blessing"

 

These three changes would go a long way towards making her more viable and appropriate for the game that Warframe has become.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 6 horas, Malikili dijo:

I used Trinity like once… care to elaborate? I know the basis of the abilities, but never actually played enough to understand the true feel of it.

Trinity is supposed to be the most complete support in the game.
Energy, HP, resistance and damage redirection. Although it already has all that, the way it is applied is what is meh.
 

• 1st ability, lifts one enemy into the air while making them seemingly immune to damage for the duration of the ability (when the duration runs out they take all accumulated damage) and applies heals when you hit that enemy. The ability is not that bad but it is slow. It's a similar thing that happens with the current Hydroid, You have to stay close/static to those enemies and attack them to receive the healing. To me it's unnecessary when you look at her entire ability kit (I'll explain why when I talk about her 4th ability).
• 2nd ability, somewhat similar to the first but simply trips enemies instead of lifting them up. When you shoot them, the enemies give you energy. Unlike the 1st ability, it is not necessary to be completely static since unlike her 1st ability, enemies do not become apparently immune to damage, If they die they give you all the energy at once.
• 3rd ability, my second favorite ability from her ability kit. Resistance, avoid status effects  and with the augment destroy armor, but the low duration and the amount of only linking to 3 enemies seems very poor to me for the current game.
• 4th ability, Heals life and shields completely, 75% damage resistance for the entire squad (affinity range) and my favorite of all her kit. The ability literally makes your 1st become Frost's 1st, What do i mean by that? Technically you will not use it's 1ts almost ever.  
  • Cons:
    • The increase in resistance have short duration.
  • Pros:
    • If you equip cast speed its really good.
    • In the next patch it could be a much great ability because of the changes to shields.
    • If you combine it with the mod Adaptation and your 3rd ability you become one of the most durable tanks in the game.

Personally, I think that her 1st and 3rd abilities need to be changed to make the warframe relevant in today's gameplay and of course the 4th duration.

Edited October 12, 2023 by CosoMalvadoNG
misspellings, Add text

[Hexerin]

7 hours ago, Malikili said:

I used Trinity like once… care to elaborate? I know the basis of the abilities, but never actually played enough to understand the true feel of it.

52 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

I'm not the one you quoted, but I can offer a bit of perspective on Trinity.  She has her uses, but she's too clunky for modern Warframe.  All of her abilities fully stop her (full body casts).  To make matters worse, her durations are very, very low by default.  They don't feel as comfortable as more recent Warframes with buffs.  Even heavily investing in duration isn't enough, and it's not like you really can with Trinity anyway, at least not heavily.  She is famously tight on mod space due to basically needing everything, especially if you want to use her armor strip Link augment.  She even needs casting speed to help ameliorate her full body casting issues that I mentioned above.

 

I don't think Trinity needs a massive rework.  Instead, I'd suggest:

• doubling the durations of Link and Blessing at base, or even quadrupling them
• changing most of her abilities to upper body casts only (to allow movement while casting)
• consider some synergies like "killing a Well of Life target adds X seconds to active Link and Blessing"

 

These three changes would go a long way towards making her more viable and appropriate for the game that Warframe has become.

@sunderthefirmament Covers the broad strokes well. There's more to her issues than that, of course, but that's more stuff you'll find in dedicated discussions on it.

[Aruquae]

13 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

I'm not the one you quoted, but I can offer a bit of perspective on Trinity.  She has her uses, but she's too clunky for modern Warframe.  All of her abilities fully stop her (full body casts).  To make matters worse, her durations are very, very low by default.  They don't feel as comfortable as more recent Warframes with buffs.  Even heavily investing in duration isn't enough, and it's not like you really can with Trinity anyway, at least not heavily.  She is famously tight on mod space due to basically needing everything, especially if you want to use her armor strip Link augment.  She even needs casting speed to help ameliorate her full body casting issues that I mentioned above.

 

I don't think Trinity needs a massive rework.  Instead, I'd suggest:

• doubling the durations of Link and Blessing at base, or even quadrupling them
• changing most of her abilities to upper body casts only (to allow movement while casting)
• consider some synergies like "killing a Well of Life target adds X seconds to active Link and Blessing"

 

These three changes would go a long way towards making her more viable and appropriate for the game that Warframe has become.

Ah I see. She seems like a frame who was good at launch (being the only support), but aged kind of oddly over the years.

[AegidiusF]

Il y a 14 heures, sunderthefirmament a dit :

I don't think Trinity needs a massive rework.  Instead, I'd suggest:

• doubling the durations of Link and Blessing at base, or even quadrupling them
• changing most of her abilities to upper body casts only (to allow movement while casting)
• consider some synergies like "killing a Well of Life target adds X seconds to active Link and Blessing"

I totally agree.

Her biggest problem is low ability duration.

Trinity is my favorite frame and I love playing her (support is my favorite gameplay, no matter the game), but she definitely could get some tweaks and those three you proposed are really necessary. I've just a question about the exemple of synergy of your third proposition : "kill a Well of Life target" : doesn't it require a change on the way the ability works ? Well of Life makes its target invulnerable for duration of the ability. Perhaps killing a linked enemy would be better, or an enemy affected by Energy Vampire.

Edited October 13, 2023 by (NSW)AegisFifi

[sunderthefirmament]

1 minute ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

I totally agree.

Her biggest problem is low ability duration.

Trinity is my favorite frame and I love playing her (support is my favorite gameplay, no matter the game), but she definetly could get some tweaks and those three you proposed are really necessary. I've just a question about the exemple of synergy of your third proposition : "kill a Well of Life target" : doesn't it require a change on the way the ability works ? Well of Life makes its target invulnerable for duration of the ability. Perhaps killing a linked enemy would be better, or an enemy affected by Energy Vampire.

That’s a really good point. Maybe shooting or attacking a well of life enemy could give small duration boosts, with a bigger boost at the end. I certainly approve of the other synergies you’re suggesting as well. 

[AegidiusF]

il y a 7 minutes, sunderthefirmament a dit :

That’s a really good point. Maybe shooting or attacking a well of life enemy could give small duration boosts, with a bigger boost at the end. I certainly approve of the other synergies you’re suggesting as well. 

Yes, attacking the Well of Life target would work.

By the way, her passive is also in great need of rework, don't you aggree ? Do you have some ideas for a new passive ?

I confess that I don't have many ideas for a passive rework other than giving her a damage buff based on the amount of HP/Energy regen she gives (a bit like the Champion's Blessing augment).