The Awkward State of Equinox

[Void2258]

Equinox is in a awkward state. They are not "bad" in the way some frames have been, but they have a number of issues that keep them from being generally good and turn them into somewhat of a 1 trick pony.

The main issue is discouragement of their main mechanic: form swapping. Multiple abilities have effective penalties for swapping forms and, also you have to be constantly reactivating things over and over not because they time out, but because they turn off on swap, and generally you fall into essentially ignoring form swapping and staying in one form or the other. And by this I mean mostly day.

The night form has 1 useful ability (rest) in the open world, and 2 abilities that don't generally justify their use. The damage reduction and healing are not significant or generally useful enough in combat, especially in high levels and especially with the odd distance scaling. Day form on the other hand has 1 very good ability if you focus on it heavily (Maim), and the rest of the kit tends to go unused. The damage vulnerability isn't significant enough to be worth taking the time to apply, and has the downside of speeding up the enemy (but not in a broadly useful way like Speedva) and the ability power boost to your allies isn't enough to be significant or with building around. Making a number of their abilities useful requires a heavy use of augments as well, limiting their build potential.

The support abilities are generally too weak to matter, and offensively you are all in on one specific ability. Thus the form shifting nature of the frame just gets lost and they become a generic nukler. Equinox needs so reworking to bring them up to standards on all abilities and to brig their theme back into actual use.

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

I personally think that if they allowed us to mod both her forms separately it would be good enough.

Edited October 13, 2023 by (XBOX)C11H22O11

[Void2258]

9 minutes ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

I personally think that if they allowed us to mod both her forms separately it would be good enough.

That doesn't help when several of the skills are not worth trying to mod for, even if you don;t have to sacrifice something else for it. And still wouldn't address changing forms being altogether not worth it.

[taiiat]

51 minutes ago, Void2258 said:

The night form has 1 useful ability (rest) in the open world

uh, sure, but most Abilities aren't that useful in such wide open spaces, that's not really anything unique. you could class like 80% of all Abilities in the game are not very useful on open Landscapes because of the much larger spaces.

that's not a unique problem so it doesn't really need fixing.

 

anyways Night has great tools for normal Missions - you have the capability for a pretty wonderful mixture of DR, Slow, Healing, Overshields, and able to put problematic Enemies to Sleep. it's kinda great. as it stands without changing the way any of the Abilities work i'd only ask for easier Modding so that i could Subsume something in and get something out of that rather than losing so much in Stats that the Subsume doesn't help.
the offerings aren't weak, but there is a lot of charging/buildup to them being effective.

anyways really the thing is just that you are so forced to do one or the other (Day or Night, rather than mixing in actual duality) and you have such long buildups in order to make the Abilities do what they're supposed to do.
Day is not as fortunate though, so Day side does need some adjustments.

Edited October 13, 2023 by taiiat

[trst]

This isn't an Equinox issue but an issue with how powercreep killed "support" abilities.

Enemies aren't enough of a threat to justify debuffing/resisting them while the point that they become a threat regular healing isn't practical. Plus we not only have ways to access healing better than any frame ability but also ways to bypass the need for healing entirely.

 

Night Equinox along with frames like Trinity and Oberon simply need reworks that make them worthwhile without the supporting aspect or they need supporting effects that can actually be useful at the point where enemies can threaten us. Just like how DE handled Citrine as a modern "support" frame having DR and effects that scale with our stats.

Edited October 13, 2023 by trst

[BroDutt]

I just wish Energy Transfer turn into inherent passive or work on all ability. It's annoying to recast and loss all bonus except for Mend & Maim. 

1 hour ago, Void2258 said:

generally you fall into essentially ignoring form swapping and staying in one form or the other. And by this I mean mostly day.

I always set the energy color dark so I get Night form first. Only use Day for Maim.

[0_The_F00l]

A few months ago I would have agreed , 

But with the advent of subsumes and archon shards Equinox has reached the potential she always had much more easily. (As much as subsume and archon shards acquisition can be easy)

There are of course things I would still like , like energy transfer being innate and the unnecessary range based DR and damage calculations , or the metamorphosis buffs getting weaker with time. Tiny things that  make me go "just why ?"

As much as independent modding of each form would be amazing , I feel it might make her a tad bit too OP.

What she absolutely needs is QoL improvements , from casting speed to persistent calculations.

[taiiat]

9 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

the unnecessary range based DR and damage calculations

someone proposed removing the falloff, and at this point in the game, that's probably quite fair, indeed. there's other more convenient to use Abilities, and Equinox costs Energy per Enemy anyways, which suggests that it should be generally more effective, not less, than the Abilities which are way more convenient to use.

8 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

As much as independent modding of each form would be amazing , I feel it might make her a tad bit too OP.

eh, i don't see it being a problem. having a myriad of tools is the theme anyways, and we have many other Abilities that are more convenient to use. trading some convenience to offer a big pile of stuff at once could have some perceived value.

[Chewarette]

There was a point in time when I loved my Nightinox for extra long missions - Pacify was so damn OP, but it's true she kinda fell into irrelevancy nowadays (Dayquinox is still usable though). Maybe Mend regenerating Shields will benefit from the Shieldgating update though.

But I agree Equinox needs something. Currently it works as 2 Warframes, it should have something to make them work in true synergy

[0_The_F00l]

10 minutes ago, taiiat said:

someone proposed removing the falloff, and at this point in the game, that's probably quite fair, indeed. there's other more convenient to use Abilities, and Equinox costs Energy per Enemy anyways, which suggests that it should be generally more effective, not less, than the Abilities which are way more convenient to use.

Equinox is indeed unnecessarily complicated in some cases , more streamlining would go a long way.

13 minutes ago, taiiat said:

eh, i don't see it being a problem. having a myriad of tools is the theme anyways, and we have many other Abilities that are more convenient to use. trading some convenience to offer a big pile of stuff at once could have some perceived value.

I personally wouldn't mind , just feel it would be very powerful.

 

[The_Royal_Elf_Mika]

equinox needs a rework to make both forms usable fluidly and it should reward you to swap froms often instead of punishing you for switching, like for 1 thing, her 4th augment needs to be the default for all her abilities and she needs her abilities rebalanced, like her 3rd ability should have a enemy cap for energy drain like gloom.

 

i think if her abilities actually rewarded switching forms instead of punishing you and if some of her abilities, like her 3 were rebalanced, i think she would be perfectly fine, but atm her kit forces you to either focus on Day or Night and to never swap, which defeats the point of her imo. 

 

[AegidiusF]

Il y a 5 heures, taiiat a dit :

someone proposed removing the falloff, and at this point in the game, that's probably quite fair, indeed. there's other more convenient to use Abilities, and Equinox costs Energy per Enemy anyways, which suggests that it should be generally more effective, not less, than the Abilities which are way more convenient to use.

I totally agree : there are two things I really want to see reworked on Equinox, both on Pacify : get rid of the DR falloff and introduce a cap for the energy drain (just like they did with Sevagoth's Gloom). I know that Pacify does not prfevent Equinox from regenerating energy from any source, but this is very often useless, as Mend and Maim will block energy regen.

Also, the Augment (Peaceful Provocation) slow down doesn't scale very fast and works worse than Gloom for a much higher energy cost.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

Equinox could be better, but in the grand scheme of things, she's still a well-used and popular frame, so I don't think she'll get a rework any time soon. mostly I tend to just use Maim and Pacify, her other powers are typically not that useful by comparison. hopefully one day she'll get tweaked.

[AegidiusF]

Il y a 2 heures, (PSN)robotwars7 a dit :

but in the grand scheme of things, she's still a well-used and popular frame

I really like Equinox, but she is no more as popular as she used to be. Her use rate stats are going down each year (since 2020). With both versions together (Prime and normal) she had 1.61% in 2020 ; 1.09% in 2021 and only 0.63% in 2022 (-54.66% evolution from 2020 to 2022). One of the reasons for this is Helminth and some new possibilities to fast rank up weapons playing solo (the Equinox "Calm and Frenzy" method for solo leveling weapons have been replaced by other methods).

If we take into consideration only "old" frames, Equinox is just above Oberon, Atlas, Banshee, Hydroid and Nyx, as the less played warframes. Among these, Banshee had a positive use rate evolution between 2020 and 2022 (+18.6%), Nyx had a slightly negative evolution (-13.21%), but Oberon (-62.42%), Atlas (-43.36%) and Hydroid (-63.85%) had gone down a lot (just as Equinox). Of course, Resurgence Prime has also an impact on use rate evolution, and Equinox has been out for Resurgence in 2023, but she was also there on Resurgence in 2022 and it had no impact on her use rate. I can't wait to see the stats for 2023.

Edited October 13, 2023 by (NSW)AegisFifi

[PR1D3]

On 2019-11-23 at 8:47 PM, A-keras said:

While I agree with the original thread's creator, I feel more can be done for Equinox besides some quality of life tweaks. What I personally would like to see is a full rework of Equinox's current gameplay, changing it into one that would allow the player to take advantage of her unique form switch mechanic without the aid of augments, by using the abilities of both her Day Form and Night Form, one after the other in tandem to invoke effective synergies between their abilities. This would make her form changing ability, Metamorphosis, the center focus of her kit and into an invaluable asset in general gameplay, which I think it should be as it is Equinox's main gimmick.  

Here's an example of a proposed Equinox rework with this gameplay concept in mind, created by @Teridax68 from from this thread.

• Passive - Metamorphosis: Upon casting an ability, Equinox switches forms, unlocking new abilities. Perhaps she could also keep Equilibrium.
• 1 - Shield and Strike: Equinox launches her current form in the target direction, which applies an effect around it as it travels.
  • Night Form - Shield: Equinox's Night form absorbs all nearby attacks and staggers enemies it passes through. The absorbed damage becomes additive ability strength for the next ability cast.  
  • Day Form - Strike: Equinox's Day form attacks all nearby enemies with a melee strike, applying melee bonuses.
  • Augment - Split: Core mechanic unchanged, clone spawns from the form Equinox launched.
• 2 - Rest and Rage: Equinox casts a spell upon the target cluster of enemies.
  • Night Form - Rest: Targets are put to sleep.
  • Day Form - Rage: Targets draw the ire of their allies, who attack them for increased damage (this includes other enemies affected by Rage).
  • Augment - Radiance: Mechanics unchanged.
• 3 - Pacify and Provoke: Equinox emits a radial burst of power around herself.
  • Night Form - Pacify: Equinox and allies hit become briefly invisible.
  • Day Form - Provoke: Equinox and allies hit deal bonus damage on their next instance of damage, with the bonus charging up to full power over a brief duration.
  • Augment - Permanence: Equinox leaves behind a reflection of the Sun or Moon, depending on the ability's version, at the location of cast for a duration that grants the ability's benefits to all allies in range, including Equinox. 
• 4 - Mend and Maim: Passively, Equinox accumulates power when nearby enemies are damaged.
  • Night Form - Mend: Equinox expends her accumulated power to place a protective ward upon herself and all nearby allies, which prevents a set amount of damage, and grants immunity to status effects and staggers.
  • Day Form - Maim: Equinox expends her accumulated power to damage all nearby enemies in a single, overwhelming blast.
  • Augment - Meld: Equinox enters her dual form for a duration based on the power expended, causing her abilities to apply the effects of both forms simultaneously.

The general idea here being that each version of the ability would have only a single, specific component, that would be mediocre on its own but significantly more effective when combined with something else (for example, Strike's projected melee attack with Rest's sleep effect). Additionally, I think we need to get rid of the persistent aura-based bonuses, because that just makes Equinox want to stay in the same form to make use of their effects, whereas bursty, or at the least fire-and-forget abilities wouldn't have such a problem.

This rework idea for Equinox they've come up with, would allow the player to string together abilities to deal damage, protect allies, sleep and detract enemies, based on their skill and understanding of Equinox and both of her forms' kits. Below there are a couple of examples of possible combinations I thought of after reading their ability ideas in the thread.

If Shield is used first:

• In Night Form, use Shield to detract enemies and collect damage to be converted into additional Power Strength for the next ability.
• In Day Form, Use Rage, with the additional Power Strength collected from Shield, further distract and increase the damage your enemies do to themselves.
• In Night Form, use Pacify to make you and/or your team invisible and quietly take out the remaining enemies.

If Shield used in a middle of a combo:

• In Day Form, use Rage to increase your enemies' damage.
• In Night Form, use Shield to collect that increased enemy damage and then return it back to you as additional Power Strength for your next ability.
• In Day Form, use the extra Power Strength on Strike to mow down the weakened enemies in front of you.
• Or..
• In Day Form, use the extra Power Strength on Maim, if it's charged, to slash apart your enemies with greater damage.
• Or....
• In Day Form, use the extra Power Strength on Provoke.
• In Night Form, use Pacify to become invisible, or Rest to put your enemies asleep.
• In Day Form use Strike on your enemies, applying the damage with Stealth and Provoke bonuses.

 

While an Equinox Rework doesn't have to be designed exactly like this, the general idea of their proposed rework is something I would like to see implemented. One, the player can't just stick with only one form of Equinox during a mission, they have to rotate between her forms for the maximum effectiveness of her kits, remaining in one form defeats the point of Equinox being a dual form entity. Secondly. she has the most abilities of every other frame in the game, currently speaking. It just seems like a waste for the player to not be able to take advantage of that fact. Finally, instead of her forms and their kits acting separately from each other, allow them to have interplay with each other to encourage more form swapping.        

I wholly believe that this kind of technical style of gameplay, would make Equinox far more engaging and rewarding for the player. With fair benefits and downsides. For one, it would make Equinox's entire kits, across both forms, all useful. No longer simply relying on one form and one or two abilities. However, they demand the player to take note of her abilities what can be combined for certain effects, and what is needed based on their current situation in a mission. And the fact that the player basically has to learn and understand two different, yet interlocked characters. With this implemented, Equinox would be like one of those characters in games that would seem hard to use at first, but is awesome and rewarding to play when you fully understand their unique mechanics and quirks.

A good example of a very technical, duel form character that requires skill and practice is Aegislash from Pokken Tournament. They are a fighter with duel forms; An aggressive close-ranged combatant in Sword Form, and a defensive long-ranged combatant in Shield Form. In each form they have wildly different moves, and certain moves can automatically trigger an immediate form transition. A skilled player makes use of their moves and form transitions for devastating combos, as shown down below.    

 

Not to mention, this kind of gameplay where her two different sets of abilities complement each other would also fit well with her theme of Yin and Yang. Although Yin and Yang are opposites, they also are complementary and interdependent in the natural world. 

First I agree with OP. Second I post it cause I have yet to see a suggestion on changes that could even rival this. Now let me pick at some posts.

11 hours ago, trst said:

This isn't an Equinox issue but an issue with how powercreep killed "support" abilities.

Enemies aren't enough of a threat to justify debuffing/resisting them while the point that they become a threat regular healing isn't practical. Plus we not only have ways to access healing better than any frame ability but also ways to bypass the need for healing entirely.

 

Night Equinox along with frames like Trinity and Oberon simply need reworks that make them worthwhile without the supporting aspect or they need supporting effects that can actually be useful at the point where enemies can threaten us. Just like how DE handled Citrine as a modern "support" frame having DR and effects that scale with our stats.

Wholeheartedly disagree. Support abilities still have their place. I would even say her current crop of abilities have use but due to the form swap punishment that requires you to not flow into one another and OTP not just to have some consistency but to use them on a basic level. Rage and Mend are the only abilities that come to mind that truly have questionable aspects with the enemy speed up and lack of purpose to build up a large charge respectively. Maybe you can include the decaying bonus values of the form swap as well but I would wager that becomes less of an issue if you're constantly swapping forms to take advantage of those values at their zenith at a natural, consistent rate.

8 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

A few months ago I would have agreed , 

But with the advent of subsumes and archon shards Equinox has reached the potential she always had much more easily. (As much as subsume and archon shards acquisition can be easy)

There are of course things I would still like , like energy transfer being innate and the unnecessary range based DR and damage calculations , or the metamorphosis buffs getting weaker with time. Tiny things that  make me go "just why ?"

As much as independent modding of each form would be amazing , I feel it might make her a tad bit too OP.

What she absolutely needs is QoL improvements , from casting speed to persistent calculations.

Archon shards are a nice band aid, but like you said later she would benefit from some QoL. If she's not getting a full on rework they need to address the ability channels/them turning off during swaps. If just her 3 and 4 stay on during form swaps I could justify using Arcane Intention on her. Among the other weird design choices I mentioned earlier in the post that you did as well. If they're not going to re invent just having those QoL improvements involving casting speeds, persistent cast and calculations would be a god send. Pablo mentioned on his twitter earlier in the week he's buffing equilibrium and health conversion by making it where they force you to pick up orbs even at full health/energy to use their functions better along with some changes to Voruna. Making kills with Ulfrun Ult count as melee kills to help generate health orbs with Lycath's Hunt. And of course Hyrdroid's rework (that only the most autistic players have an issue with) . This next update is going to be big and hopefully will set the tone where we see more QoL fixes from Blessed Based Pablo.

[Aruquae]

2 minutes ago, PR1D3 said:

that only the most autistic players have an issue with

Might be best to leave that out, lest you want to start an argument that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. This also has quite a rather aggressive tone

[0_The_F00l]

53 minutes ago, PR1D3 said:

 

Archon shards are a nice band aid, but like you said later she would benefit from some QoL. If she's not getting a full on rework they need to address the ability channels/them turning off during swaps. If just her 3 and 4 stay on during form swaps I could justify using Arcane Intention on her. Among the other weird design choices I mentioned earlier in the post that you did as well. If they're not going to re invent just having those QoL improvements involving casting speeds, persistent cast and calculations would be a god send. Pablo mentioned on his twitter earlier in the week he's buffing equilibrium and health conversion by making it where they force you to pick up orbs even at full health/energy to use their functions better along with some changes to Voruna. Making kills with Ulfrun Ult count as melee kills to help generate health orbs with Lycath's Hunt. And of course Hyrdroid's rework (that only the most autistic players have an issue with) . This next update is going to be big and hopefully will set the tone where we see more QoL fixes from Blessed Based Pablo.

I would indeed love it if my most loved frame gets more love (that sounded better in my head).

But my point was that she is already in a decent enough place , definitely not in as dire a need as hydroid , but if it happens I will welcome it.

[Mazifet]

I'll just leave my QOL here:

 

 

If I had to make one really big change, giving equinox form's separate modding capabilities would make equinox a lot more usable when it comes to using both forms at once.

[taiiat]

5 hours ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

I totally agree : there are two things I really want to see reworked on Equinox, both on Pacify : get rid of the DR falloff and introduce a cap for the energy drain (just like they did with Sevagoth's Gloom). I know that Pacify does not prfevent Equinox from regenerating energy from any source, but this is very often useless, as Mend and Maim will block energy regen.

what if Mend/Maim didn't block Energy? 😁
it's more fun to work with Energy mechanics than to not, i think. 

5 hours ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

Also, the Augment (Peaceful Provocation) slow down doesn't scale very fast and works worse than Gloom for a much higher energy cost.

easier Mod scaling, no falloff, and charging it up not taking Centuries would go a long way already. 
easier Mod scaling would let you add Gloom to stack it. as it is now adding Gloom makes you sacrifice so much Strength that it doesn't really actually help. well it does for me atleast, as i use Empower for pacifist.

 

5 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

mostly I tend to just use Maim and Pacify, her other powers are typically not that useful by comparison. hopefully one day she'll get tweaked.

there's no reason not to use Mend when using Peaceful Provocation - it's easy Healing + Shields and Overshields, after all. since it only takes a few Enemies to way overscale past our Health Bars, pulsing it on and off frequently means everyone will tend to have full Health and Shields + full Overshields. pretty handy if you ask me.
and Sleep is always useful.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

It's an odd place to be in general gaming, because these abilities are supposed to be used by a coordinated team, but of all the games, warframe least requires actual coordinated teams. 

Equinox would be great in an actual MMO raid.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

this is kind of nostalgia for me,  as equinox was one i remember waiting for diligently to be released as she would have  dual forms with separate powers that could change on the fly , it was fun while it lasted though she eventually ran into her platue of her capabilities much like Gen 1 saryn did for similar reasons

i enjoyed her as at the time i played trinity (healer/energy vamp) and equinox allowed for healing , buffing and damage which was a nice change of pace, the problem is much like trinity ran into for me personally , plenty of other frames fill the "healer/support" slot without being dedicated to it , sure night forms sleep threads are a way to scale play to a degree but that dosnt resolve the main issues with equinox 

she has scalability in some regards but non in defensive way that help her survive, maybe if her abilities granted over guard or more armor (ect ) , aas some factors to apply to she could help. She has no real function to deal with armored/shielded enemies mainly slash damage iirc, even day forms vulnerability is only so helpful given its range and target effects , if she could drain shields/armor of enemies would help her given that was done in a scalable way on all powers of other such frames. she simply is a glass cannon but unable to protect or restore herself when things get crazy which lead to her disuse imo , at least for me, i could run oberon for an example through most of the game and SP and provide same roles and grant armor and lots of support functions 

 

 

[0_The_F00l]

7 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Equinox would be great in an actual MMO raid.

She was great in JV (as much as anything could have been great in JV)

6 hours ago, (XBOX)EternalDrk Mako said:

this is kind of nostalgia for me,  as equinox was one i remember waiting for diligently to be released as she would have  dual forms with separate powers that could change on the fly , it was fun while it lasted though she eventually ran into her platue of her capabilities much like Gen 1 saryn did for similar reasons

i enjoyed her as at the time i played trinity (healer/energy vamp) and equinox allowed for healing , buffing and damage which was a nice change of pace, the problem is much like trinity ran into for me personally , plenty of other frames fill the "healer/support" slot without being dedicated to it , sure night forms sleep threads are a way to scale play to a degree but that dosnt resolve the main issues with equinox 

she has scalability in some regards but non in defensive way that help her survive, maybe if her abilities granted over guard or more armor (ect ) , aas some factors to apply to she could help. She has no real function to deal with armored/shielded enemies mainly slash damage iirc, even day forms vulnerability is only so helpful given its range and target effects , if she could drain shields/armor of enemies would help her given that was done in a scalable way on all powers of other such frames. she simply is a glass cannon but unable to protect or restore herself when things get crazy which lead to her disuse imo , at least for me, i could run oberon for an example through most of the game and SP and provide same roles and grant armor and lots of support functions 

So what you say is partially correct if you are limiting the discussion to base equinox , but there are now ways to strip Armor from enemies via additional means (subsume/ focus is most effective).

And mend gives shields on kills resetting shield gate each time it does get a kill , There are also arcanes that can reliably use finishers for Armor , and maim gives you some soft CC as enemies get stunned for a few seconds.

It does require a very very active playstyle on top of the complexity and that can be off putting .

 

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

On 2023-10-13 at 8:32 PM, 0_The_F00l said:

She was great in JV (as much as anything could have been great in JV)

So what you say is partially correct if you are limiting the discussion to base equinox , but there are now ways to strip Armor from enemies via additional means (subsume/ focus is most effective).

And mend gives shields on kills resetting shield gate each time it does get a kill , There are also arcanes that can reliably use finishers for Armor , and maim gives you some soft CC as enemies get stunned for a few seconds.

It does require a very very active playstyle on top of the complexity and that can be off putting .

 

problem with that is your assuming all players have access to the arcanes or helmith and have it unlocked enough to make varied builds useful, when iirc the last major player data De released off hand, most were between mr 5-10 , not to mention the big resource sink it is 

basing this around an innate frame setup  for that reason is more logical, and why i pointed the intrinsic issues of her kit.  the bandaid system that is helmith can be used to "stall" her problems temporally , but its not a actual fix , just one the players have to themselves work around 

mind you most experienced players will have figured a way to make anything playable /viable . its just effort time /complexity of build/play style, but just because you can make something work dosnt mean things with alternative setups that are far easier are not more preferable to most

equinox by herself has good/bad points but like most frames , especially OG ones, and they most run into the flaw of mechanics not being as functional/useful as some newer or reworked setups which are more thought-out *praise Pablo* 

 its not that she is bad or cant be used, just other alternatives exist that are easier to utilize quicker and / or  more effective.

on the other hand frames like MAG seem to always get buffed consistently whether they were intended as to directly benefit or not 

mainly de needs to  actively rework and adjust frames to keep them all on the level, but that isnt a priority so plenty collect dust imo

[0_The_F00l]

20 hours ago, (XBOX)EternalDrk Mako said:

problem with that is your assuming all players have access to the arcanes or helmith and have it unlocked enough to make varied builds useful, when iirc the last major player data De released off hand, most were between mr 5-10 , not to mention the big resource sink it is 

basing this around an innate frame setup  for that reason is more logical, and why i pointed the intrinsic issues of her kit.  the bandaid system that is helmith can be used to "stall" her problems temporally , but its not a actual fix , just one the players have to themselves work around 

mind you most experienced players will have figured a way to make anything playable /viable . its just effort time /complexity of build/play style, but just because you can make something work dosnt mean things with alternative setups that are far easier are not more preferable to most

Not disagreeing with you, But all gear requires some amount of grinding and some getting used to which may be locked behind something cumbersome, If players truly wish to use something either cause of the aesthetics or specifically because of the complexity involved they will definitely find ways.

20 hours ago, (XBOX)EternalDrk Mako said:

equinox by herself has good/bad points but like most frames , especially OG ones, and they most run into the flaw of mechanics not being as functional/useful as some newer or reworked setups which are more thought-out *praise Pablo* 

 its not that she is bad or cant be used, just other alternatives exist that are easier to utilize quicker and / or  more effective.

on the other hand frames like MAG seem to always get buffed consistently whether they were intended as to directly benefit or not 

mainly de needs to  actively rework and adjust frames to keep them all on the level, but that isnt a priority so plenty collect dust imo

Thats pretty much true for any frame not in the top used list.

[Zakkhar]

On 2023-10-13 at 4:45 AM, BroDutt said:

I always set the energy color dark so I get Night form first. Only use Day for Maim.

Host MIgration doesnt care about your energy color. It will leave you to the opposite form you want. And if you subsumed something on his 1, you are stuck in the wrong form.