Should catalyzing shields be an exilus?

[Aruquae]

Never use this because I never liked shieldgating, but looking at the mod made me wonder why it’s not on an exilus slot. Idk it just looks like it should be there. It could also free up an actual slot for more augur mods (you guys use augur mods for shield gate right?). Just something to think about. Thoughts?

[(XBOX)Shodian]

It'd be too powerful as an exilus slot.

The other shield mods are not as well. I think it's pretty well balanced. 

[ReddyDisco]

I do want it to be exilus but prolly won't happen because this is supposed to be a nerf, forcing you to give up a mod slot to be immortal.

[Hexerin]

It's an autowin button, it shouldn't exist at all.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

Probably

it replaces the decaying dragon key, which didn't take up a mod slot

so having it be exilus at least seems fair

[Psianide73]

No. It was an unintended interaction, so they didn't have to give it back to the players at all.

Instead they decided that you could have it, but it'll cost you a mod slot, which is a fair trade off.

 

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

No, it shouldn't be rewarding you too much taking up a regular mod slot is justified

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

It would be way too powerful if it was exilus slot. This is justified being where it is.

Although I feel like we should be having a conversation about augments taking that slot. But again, some are justified not taking that slot too. 

But in the case of this mod, it absolutely deserves a mod slot.

[Aruquae]

28 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

It's an autowin button, it shouldn't exist at all.

I agree with this

Though it just feels like an exilus 

Much like how some augments also feel like an exilus  

36 minutes ago, (XBOX)Shodian said:

It'd be too powerful as an exilus slot.

The other shield mods are not as well. I think it's pretty well balanced. 

True, it keeps other mods in check

Sacrificing an actual mod slot for a shieldgate play style is a fair trade

1 minute ago, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

It would be way too powerful if it was exilus slot. This is justified being where it is.

Although I feel like we should be having a conversation about augments taking that slot. But again, some are justified not taking that slot too. 

But in the case of this mod, it absolutely deserves a mod slot.

Yea some other augments should definitely be in an exilus (energy transfer) others are fine as is (blending talons)

[SneakyErvin]

No. If it worked like the old Dragon Key (0.33 or 1.3 sec gate with nothing in between) then maybe yes. But with it applying all of the shield gate mechanics to a minimalized shield value it is very powerful, since it scales between minimal to "maximum" gate at a percentage rate. I mean, the frames that utilize it well now end up at ridiculously low shields and practically only need brief respite to sustain it even in a maxed out efficiency build.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

To me, it feels good in the mod slot. The build diversity is really good with shields right now and I think placing this in exilus would ruin that. 

[(XBOX)Hellsteeth30]

No.  Shield gate is already powerful, stupidly so on some frames (5 sec total on Protea anyone) with the right setup.

It needs to have a cost (dragon key was free), a regular mod slot is fair.

[Vindicus8235]

for how powerful shield gating is, the mod should cost 74 capacity and have no polarity tbh.  shield gating really should just die.  what shield gating does (prevent 1 shots) is fine, so just nerf augur set/brief respite or make it so shield gate timer isn't affected by mod boosts to shield, only natural regen.  something, anything to kill this GOOFY ass system.  the fact they made a mod to foster this kind of game play is beyond mind boggling.

[BR31]

I'd say yes.  Some people say it's an "auto-win button"- it's far from it.

Esp. for the content where most people stop (level 300-500 max)-
it's not the best option which requires significantly more inputs than the alternatives.

[Zakalwe]

No, I think the trade off right now is very good. Shield gating is powerful, so it should be a trade-off, but it's a very good thing they leaned into it instead of away from it.

Removing it or making it non-viable somehow would have simply reduced the frames we can use in certain situations, or meant we'd be limited to less playstyles.

You have never, ever needed gating to solo the mjority of content including most SP stuff. The only time you /really/ need it is in endless SP stuff where you're going for very high level enemies, without it we'd be limited to a few frames only if we wanted to solo that content.

Edited October 26, 2023 by Zakalwe

[Hexerin]

1 hour ago, BR31 said:

I'd say yes.  Some people say it's an "auto-win button"- it's far from it.

Esp. for the content where most people stop (level 300-500 max)-
it's not the best option which requires significantly more inputs than the alternatives.

It gives nearly complete immortality at nearly zero cost all the way through level 9,999. The only thing that gets through it is toxin, which is pretty much exclusively an Infested threat (guess which faction people play against in SPE? that's right, not Infested). Take your garbage lies elsewhere.

[Silligoose]

21 hours ago, Hexerin said:

It's an autowin button, it shouldn't exist at all.

We talking about Mesmer Skin, or Iron Skin? I agree, but this thread is about shield gating 🙂

[Aruquae]

1 hour ago, Hexerin said:

It gives nearly complete immortality at nearly zero cost all the way through level 9,999. The only thing that gets through it is toxin, which is pretty much exclusively an Infested threat (guess which faction people play against in SPE? that's right, not Infested). Take your garbage lies elsewhere.

Cmon man we were doing so good with voicing our opinions 

It is fun seeing people interact

The majority does vote “no” though, which is understandable. Just glad the Decaying Dragon Key abuse is done.

Edit: And here we go with the arguing. Can’t we just have a civilized conversation?

Edited October 26, 2023 by (NSW)Malikili
Gosh darn it

[AegidiusF]

Il y a 22 heures, (NSW)Malikili a dit :

Never use this because I never liked shieldgating, but looking at the mod made me wonder why it’s not on an exilus slot. Idk it just looks like it should be there. It could also free up an actual slot for more augur mods (you guys use augur mods for shield gate right?). Just something to think about. Thoughts?

I say yes. I think it would be nice, specially for warframes that has low shields (Grendel) and that will have to sacrify one mod slot to have the same shield gate mechanics as before the shield gate rework (or to use Archon Shards to get more shields).

Exilus Mods are not only utility mods : the Drift Mods, Aviator and (Prime) Sure Footed are good exemples of this.

To be able to use an exilus mod, you need to invest on an Exilus adaptor : it's not a "free" slot like the Dragon key in the items gear.

You will have a low cap of 1.33s shield gate duration, while, building for shields (without Catalyzing Shields) will have a max cap of 2.5s shield gate duration. Catalyzing Shields is not the most powerful shield gate option currently available.

 

On the other hand, as the davs said on the Devstream, the idea behind the introduction of Catalyzing Shields was to let players benefit from the Dragon key+shield gate survivability option, but having to spend a mod slot. Turning Catalyzing Shields into an Exilus mod would, in my opinion, be in contradiction with the devs intention to make players "pay" this specific shield gate mechanic with a Mod Slot.

[Aruquae]

1 minute ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

I say yes. I think it would be nice, specially for warframes that has low shields (Grendel) and that will have to sacrify one mod slot to have the same shield gate mechanics as before the shield gate rework (or to use Archon Shards to get more shields).

I was always confused with this

Why Grendel? He can health tank like no tomorrow. Am I missing something? Like for frames such as Banshee I can see Shield Gating being favorable, but Grendel? 
Agree with what you said after, just confused on why Grendel. 

[BR31]

1 час назад, Hexerin сказал:

It gives nearly complete immortality at nearly zero cost all the way through level 9,999. The only thing that gets through it is toxin, which is pretty much exclusively an Infested threat (guess which faction people play against in SPE? that's right, not Infested). Take your garbage lies elsewhere.

It funny that you go into insults and lying yourself. I'm gonna leave for other people to decide who's right and wrong.

The toxin as a faction indeed is mostly infested, but also the most popular endurance mode- disruption has the all toxin damage mod,
magnetic clouds and alike modifiers that goes against the shield gating. Energy liches are all factions wide. Let's not pretend that
magnetic status/energy manipulation don't affect the playstyle.

"at nearly zero cost" - is a lie.  Some tools for energy are indeed super strong, but not every build can use them,
certainly not the majority of a playerbase.

"SPE+9999" argument goes out of the window, i mentioned the 300-500 max level for a reason.
I play mostly endurance myself, but it's a niche thing.
Most people don't play it and de barely balance around it.

Invincibility frames like rev, invis are easier to apply than any shield gate build.
Ehp facetanking on frames with a damage reduction can go in the thousands pretty easy without
many inputs.
Overguard spam on frames which already use those abilities in their kit.

Pillage/condemn and alike builds have a way more room for error than cat shields builds.

Save your bile for ingame use or provide concrete arguments and try to learn how to have a civil
discussion.

[AegidiusF]

il y a 17 minutes, (NSW)Malikili a dit :

I was always confused with this

Why Grendel? He can health tank like no tomorrow. Am I missing something? Like for frames such as Banshee I can see Shield Gating being favorable, but Grendel? 
Agree with what you said after, just confused on why Grendel. 

I don't use shield gate builds with Grendel neither, but more than 1 second of shield gate was nice to protect him from the first stack of some Bleeding status effects (that bypasses armor), as the Narmer one-shot projectile. This was very useful to give Grendel a few seconds to remove the status effect with Hearty Nourishment. But now, with less than one second of shield gate, Grendel won't be protected against the first stack of bleeding and we'll have less than one second to trigger an anti-status ability.

For most of the game's content, Grendel does not need to shield gate at all, but he has become a bit more vulnerable after the changes, specially on Archon hunts.

[Aruquae]

2 minutes ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

I don't use shield gate builds with Grendel neither, but more than 1 second of shield gate was nice to protect him from the first stack of some Bleeding status effects (that bypasses armor), as the Narmer one-shot projectile. This was very useful to give Grendel a few seconds to remove the status effect with Hearty Nourishment. But now, with less than one second of shield gate, Grendel won't be protected against the first stack of bleeding and we'll have less than one second to trigger an anti-status ability.

For most of the game's content, Grendel does not need to shield gate at all, but he has become a bit more vulnerable after the changes, specially on Archon hunts.

Huh that makes sense. I wonder if you can survive the first instance of slash. That mod would be great for him. Thanks for clarifying 

[nslay]

44 minutes ago, BR31 said:

It funny that you go into insults and lying yourself. I'm gonna leave for other people to decide who's right and wrong.

The toxin as a faction indeed is mostly infested, but also the most popular endurance mode- disruption has the all toxin damage mod,
magnetic clouds and alike modifiers that goes against the shield gating. Energy liches are all factions wide. Let's not pretend that
magnetic status/energy manipulation don't affect the playstyle.

"at nearly zero cost" - is a lie.  Some tools for energy are indeed super strong, but not every build can use them,
certainly not the majority of a playerbase.

"SPE+9999" argument goes out of the window, i mentioned the 300-500 max level for a reason.
I play mostly endurance myself, but it's a niche thing.
Most people don't play it and de barely balance around it.

Invincibility frames like rev, invis are easier to apply than any shield gate build.
Ehp facetanking on frames with a damage reduction can go in the thousands pretty easy without
many inputs.
Overguard spam on frames which already use those abilities in their kit.

Pillage/condemn and alike builds have a way more room for error than cat shields builds.

Save your bile for ingame use or provide concrete arguments and try to learn how to have a civil
discussion.

And let's not discount powerful Heat/Electric/Slash procs where each DoT tic instantly drains all shields. IMO, you really have to have some status immunity because it's very annoying (and energy draining!) to have to press a button every DoT tic to stay alive.

[Aruquae]

7 minutes ago, nslay said:

And let's not discount powerful Heat/Electric/Slash procs where each DoT tic instantly drains all shields. IMO, you really have to have some status immunity because it's very annoying (and energy draining!) to have to press a button every DoT tic to stay alive.

Shall introduce you to Nezha’s first? Base range is more than enough for total status immunity (you generate fire that you automatically stand on). Rolling guard also works