Pay plat to skip story content to access latest content-dev stream

[schilds]

20 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

All the solutions are bad. All we need is to pick the one that is the least bad and unfortunatelly I agree with Rebecca. Pay to skip story and receive gear to participate in the newest content IS the "least bad solution".

I wouldn't say all solutions are bad, but better solutions will take substantial effort, maybe an impractical amount. Maybe it's the "least bad" easy solution.

Edited October 29, 2023 by schilds

[Cerikus]

42 minutes ago, schilds said:

I wouldn't say all solutions are bad, but better solutions will take substantial effort, maybe an impractical amount. Maybe it's the "least bad" easy solution.

Yes, exactly.

Good solution would be a rework of the entire starchart, big audit of all planets, missions and quests and streamlining the onboarding experience so new player can catch up with othes within 20 hours. It would also need a big cinematic quest that takes a player from Earth to Uranus.

Good solution that will never happen.

 

Edited October 29, 2023 by Cerikus

[Roble_Viejo]

Im 100% in favor of removing Requisites and letting Players play Quests in any order

But making them Pay for it? Good God, this is not the Digital Extremes I knew....

It gets worse when you realize they explicitly used the phrase
"Our Goal is to allow Players to PAY to UNLOCK and COMPLETE Quests"
And even worse still when you read Comments defending this P2W BS

I knew DE would get more and more greedy after the Heirloom Scam

We Destiny now boys!

[Circle_of_Psi]

2 hours ago, Roble_Viejo said:

We Destiny now boys

Sounds like you have a problem with D2...

2 hours ago, Roble_Viejo said:

And even worse still when you read Comments defending this P2W BS

I knew DE would get more and more greedy after the Heirloom Scam

I've been telling people from the start that DE will fall to such and as you see people defending it, they will defend DE no matter what, if this game even has lockboxes, people will still defend.

It's going to get worse before it gets better my friend. 

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

13 hours ago, RLanzinger said:

Na @(XBOX)Architect Prime, Rush or skip ar strictly the same :

• Pay to have Prime Access or any Warframe like Citrine/Voruna IS Skipping the whole optional quest
• Pay to have NecraMech, Railjack, Overboard IS Skipping the whole Grind stuff
• Pay to have resources like Pathos Clamp IS Skipping Orowyrm's fights

If we run on your logic, then I guess I don't like any of that. Too much rush/skipping going on. 

[Firaxion]

As this seems to be the largest pay to skip discussion I will post my opinion here.

I chatted in depth with my longest standing clanmate and whilst neither of us are *completely* against the idea, we kept returning to certain problematic issues that circle the "pay to skip" idea.

 

Fundamentally the biggest problem is that by allowing this plat to skip option, you are pitting TWO groups of tenno against each other in the future STORYWISE, the old "we know it all, give us more depth" tenno and the "meh i know kinda whats going on i guess, but can we keep it understandable and easy to follow please?" tenno.

IF THE GENERAL PLAN/ACCESSIBILTY OF STORY HAS TO CHANGE TO ACCOMMODATE THOSE WHO ARE UNWILLING TO ACCEPT A DEEPENING STORYLINE, THEN THERE IS A HUGE, HUGE PROBLEM FOR THE FUTURE OF WARFAME.

Please excuse the caplocks but i cannot emphasise how gamebreaking a decision like this has the potential to be, if implemented without proper thought (as a makeshift fix to a longstanding problem) and continued in bad faith (future story expansions with similar plat catchup skip, added without consideration to longterm impact).

 

By all means DE, go for it, add the plat skipping option, it actually offends me FAR LESS than the plat incarnon adapters in the shop. (Those items clearly should have been tradable items on the market, similar to prime parts, post first week in game market, if you wished to keep consistency in your monetization strategy, and also "allowing access on first week of release to all players".)

 

Should certain players complain about being "dropped in the deep end of the pool" and demanding change then i predict nothing but making a quite tricky problem EVEN WORSE.

 

In my eyes the critical issue that needs addressing is too strict MR requirements for weapons/frames/riven mods/content. That was the point of MR wasnt it? To lock out those who hadnt progressed enough from jumping ahead too far? Ignoring the GLARING exception of KUVA/TENET weapons not locking MR requirements, yet being shockingly powerful, MR control has been too strict on progression for a very long time now. I strongly suggest dealing with THIS problem first.

 

On a related topic, whilst on one level i like auto melee, the timing of having it just before iphone release looks AWFULLY SUSPICIOUS to me. It heavily implies a DUMBING DOWN of mechanics, when what is DESPERATELY NEEDED is actually an increase in complexity and finesse of gameplay.

Why is it we never had auto melee been mentioned before as a quality of life ages before, if it is so obviously universally better? 

 

It is the convenient TIMING of all these discussed changes, that concerns me the most. The reasons seem plausible, for now.

 

But it requires absolute good faith on DEs part to not snowball these questionable ideas into a complete dumpster fire future catastrophe for the game.

 

Either way, it has been an amazing run up to this point. Definitely my favorite game of all time right now, irrespective of the unknown future.

[(XBOX)DragonMan 2700]

Hey so, opinion I'm going to throw in here is, I understand (or at least I think I do) why the Ketchup  Catch-up/skip system may be important/good for newer folks, but my thoughts are mostly concerned with quest items I think it'd be ok if new players got in on the new stuff but I don't really want them to have the rewards from the quest unlocked even if they've seen the cinematics. I would like them to play the quests at their own discretion on their own time.  I mean that in most respectful way possible.

That would include imo-

Broken war

Broken scepter  

Umbra n, the mods

Xoris

Nataruk

And so on you get my point.

 

Because jumping in for the new hotness is fine, but I think they should still play the quests and earn the rewards for themselves in that way they'll come to appreciate it in the end.  Otherwise yeah let the new people in new registered losers welcome.😜

 

Other than that I hope DE doesn't spiral the game into MTX hell.

——————–——————–——————–——————–——————–——————–

Future edit thoughts.

First, I don't know if it came across this way or not, but I meant "registered losers" in a positive way 💗.

Next, after reading/watching more people speak on this topic I've come to the understanding that if there were people that waned to skip then any loot/story spoilers are on them if the skip path over the free path is their choice. Then all it does is get more people in the game that want to be here, it doesn't hurt me in any way.

I decided to keep my original post and just add this because I believe in what I said even with my newfound understanding. Plus, my only worry still is the microtransaction getting out of hand in the future after skip happens or not. 

Ok I'm done, 💗Warframe 🐲👍

Edited November 1, 2023 by (XBOX)DragonMan 2700
Shower 🚿 thoughts.

[RichardKam]

I don't care much about the story and stuff in this game because of eternalism. Remember the Lotus being the bad guy? Ballas being betrayed by the Lotus in the Prelude to War? DE simply threw all that into the rubbish bin and re-write the TNW.

The Sacrifice is the only story quest I think is too good to be skipped. 

This game has been in service for 10 years. What should a new player do when they have 10 years of contents in front of them? No matter how you rework or tweak the starchart the contents would still be daunting. This is a problem that needed to be fixed but no one wanted to fix. That's why The Duviri allows you to jump right into it. New players can get lots of goodies from the regular circuit and duviri and the pathos clamp shop without going through the regular starchart. Veteran said it ruined the operator surprise but com'on operator was introduced like 8 years ago and you still need a spoiler warning?

3小时前 , Firaxion 说:

It is the convenient TIMING of all these discussed changes, that concerns me the most. The reasons seem plausible, for now.

I will give DE the benefit of doubt. All these long-over-due QoL changes happened not because of the mobile version, but because Reb and Pablo took over the steering wheel. They do play their own game. They are on the similar frequency as the players. I am glad that they took the dirty job of fixing the progression problem.

On the other hand, the true, burning problem of any new players is the steep learning curve. DE should really stop outsourcing the guide and tutorial to ytubers because most of them are either 1) doing a lousy job at that or 2) assume you already have 100+ arcanes with 6+ focus schools unlocked. That is a bigger problem when it comes to getting new players and keeping them.

[Tynged]

In my mind, adding this quest skip mechanic to the Referral program, for FREE, would be the solution to the "I want to play with my friends" problem. With a proper disclaimer for the person who is about to use this mechanic, to let them know they are about to skip all of the game mechanics and be put into the fray completely blind.

Why is this even considered to be monetised? If the devs are short on money, they have to tell that to the community that keeps them afloat and ask for help. Not to mention the way it was just put out there in the middle of a conversation with "this is not for greed" message, with other devs visibly being concerned with how much chat pushback this caused.

[Karyst]

Let's start a lore skip trust fund for those less fortunate. I donate amount equal to skip of one player for starters. 

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

3 hours ago, Tynged said:

In my mind, adding this quest skip mechanic to the Referral program, for FREE, would be the solution to the "I want to play with my friends" problem. With a proper disclaimer for the person who is about to use this mechanic, to let them know they are about to skip all of the game mechanics and be put into the fray completely blind.

Why is this even considered to be monetised? If the devs are short on money, they have to tell that to the community that keeps them afloat and ask for help. Not to mention the way it was just put out there in the middle of a conversation with "this is not for greed" message, with other devs visibly being concerned with how much chat pushback this caused.

It's not they are hurting for money, it's probably Rebb either:

1) Closed door conversations could have included "higher ups" on the board pushing for this to be monetized.

2) Rebb including it to "C.Y A" herself with higher ups 

One thing most people need to realize even as the Creative Director, she ultimately answers to a Board of Directors who view Warfeame as a business first and foremost.

And with Steve now becoming CEO: That's probably an extremely great hire for the fans as he is still in tune with what we as consumers want.

But that also dosent mean every decision that ultimately gets made will reflect that when ultimately he's now responsible for DE as a business vs a game developer.

So what they decide to do moving forward I still believe will be quite fair relating to what DE decides to sell, but Warframe is still how they are ultimately trying to make money.

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by (XBOX)Cram Duahcim

[Aruquae]

This reminds me of the forums/community being in almost full agreement when they brought up the Heirloom Collection. You see how well that turned out… tbf they did fix the price for “later packs.” Though that’s not what we asked for. 

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

4 minutes ago, Malikili said:

This reminds me of the forums/community being in almost full agreement when they brought up the Heirloom Collection. You see how well that turned out… tbf they did fix the price for “later packs.” Though that’s not what we asked for. 

They also added more platinum to reflect its pricing. The one thing that I give kudos to DE for is taking consumer feedback seriously and making changes promptly from it. When they make a mistake they at least own it and rectify it. 

Something very few developers actually do.

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by (XBOX)Cram Duahcim

[Aruquae]

Just now, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

They also added more platinum to reflect its pricing. The one thing that I give kudos to DE for is taking consumer feedback seriously and making changes promptly from it.

 

Agreed, they could’ve just pulled an EA, and said “If you don’t want it, don’t buy it, but they listened, and they tried to make changes to attempt to fulfill the community’s wishes. 

 

[SplineDrive]

2 hours ago, Malikili said:

Agreed, they could’ve just pulled an EA, and said “If you don’t want it, don’t buy it, but they listened, and they tried to make changes to attempt to fulfill the community’s wishes. 

To be fair to EA, after the total mess that was Battlefront 2 launch and negative feedback, it's quite pleasant to play and easy to rank up and unlock all the cool characters and their special moves (star cards).

What I've learned is that studios (including DE, it doesn't matter which ones), always try and see what they can get away with at first.  If the overwhelming user sentiment is negative then they "rush to the rescue" and "fix it".

I'm sure [DE]Rebecca is a lovely person and gets on well with the community, but she has to balance that against providing value for the owners of Warframe (like anyone in charge of any company/project), so it's probably a difficult tightrope to walk.

[(PSN)PS_element]

On 2023-10-27 at 12:59 PM, Genitive said:

Because there are people who are just not interested in the story. Look at Final Fantasy 14, a game where the story is a main selling point. Yet, there are plenty of people who are just interested in endgame raiding and don't want to spend months getting there. Story skips are for people like that. Unless you are a person who is bothered by mere existence of a skip, you can just ignore it.

 

I don't want to start a back n forth. I understand how much you value Lore and I respect it. I care about Lore if it interests me.

But I strongly disagree with this 1. The Story in Warframe feels like a sidequest because it exists separate from the grind. My first time playing in the Void and I was like,, "I want that guy!" (Frost). At the time, it was 1 key and you and your team going the distance. Can you do it? what do the leader boards say about it? 

The story behind Spacemom and the Tenno has been straight UP Changed, not just altered slightly by DE. They don't deny it. In fact, in its early stages, the interviews show how they viewed the game as a company and how the fact that it was ever changing was the biggest part of their selling point. 

What we didn't expect is how much the story would change. how the back story would end up becoming horridly inconsistent.

That's partly why people who have made videos about the story of Warframe get bombarded with angry comments. Because the story changes so much that the explanation of what's going on changes. 

On a side note: You can always go back and play what you skipped. That aspect of the game is NOT changing. 

In a nutshell, if you spent 3,000hours on Warframe doing story content because its "90%" of the game,... You're doing it wrong. 😆 Cheers!

-Element

 

[(PSN)FirmBizkit]

On 2023-10-29 at 4:12 PM, Firaxion said:

In my eyes the critical issue that needs addressing is too strict MR requirements for weapons/frames/riven mods/content. That was the point of MR wasnt it? To lock out those who hadnt progressed enough from jumping ahead too far? Ignoring the GLARING exception of KUVA/TENET weapons not locking MR requirements, yet being shockingly powerful, MR control has been too strict on progression for a very long time now. I strongly suggest dealing with THIS problem first.

 

On a related topic, whilst on one level i like auto melee, the timing of having it just before iphone release looks AWFULLY SUSPICIOUS to me. It heavily implies a DUMBING DOWN of mechanics, when what is DESPERATELY NEEDED is actually an increase in complexity and finesse of gameplay.

Why is it we never had auto melee been mentioned before as a quality of life ages before, if it is so obviously universally better? 

 

First paragraph very good point.

Regarding auto melee though I wouldn’t be worried - even Destiny has recently implemented it and with the levels of attack speed we can reach in this game it’s definitely needed especially on controller.

Im hoping to see auto fire next (holding trigger continuously fires semi autos) just because those weapons in shooters are kind of problematic on controllers. With the standard setup and a standard controller, having to continuously (and sometimes rapidly) press the triggers can cause recoil in the controller (much like vibration) and mess up your aim. It also causes your grip to shift from the sticks and onto the triggers/handles. The Dualsense is actually pretty bad for this because the travel distance from trigger press/depress seems to have almost doubled from what it was on the Dualshock (probably for haptics).

[(PSN)FirmBizkit]

On 2023-10-27 at 12:59 PM, Genitive said:

Because there are people who are just not interested in the story. Look at Final Fantasy 14, a game where the story is a main selling point. Yet, there are plenty of people who are just interested in endgame raiding and don't want to spend months getting there. Story skips are for people like that. Unless you are a person who is bothered by mere existence of a skip, you can just ignore it.

The thing is FFXIV has the framework to support story skipping very well. It is a theme park game with a multitude of different activities and communities within it. There are people who play the game solely for crafting and gathering, some who play it just for roleplaying (and roleplayers create their own stories and narratives), there are hardcore and casual activities across the board ranging from housing and collecting to speed running raids bleeding optimization.

WF doesn’t support a diverse enough community or activities in game for a story skip to be healthy in my opinion. It isn’t really a theme park. It’s got fashion/cosmetics and it’s got killing. That’s about it. The killing ranges from casual to hardcore but it’s still just killing.

Edited November 1, 2023 by (PSN)FirmBizkit

[Kegnor97]

Their reasoning is that if someone sees the trailer for the new content, they might get dissapointed by seeing all the catching up they have to do, which is fair, but what is stopping them from making publicity pushes that don't focus on new patches? I mean, the next gen trailer they did a few years ago worked really well as a overall warframe trailer that did not focus on quest that are 100 hours in

https://youtu.be/ue6EXMWMpc4?si=vNZ8v4LwB0tzEyQm

[Genitive]

12 hours ago, (PSN)FirmBizkit said:

The thing is FFXIV has the framework to support story skipping very well. It is a theme park game with a multitude of different activities and communities within it. There are people who play the game solely for crafting and gathering, some who play it just for roleplaying (and roleplayers create their own stories and narratives), there are hardcore and casual activities across the board ranging from housing and collecting to speed running raids bleeding optimization.

WF doesn’t support a diverse enough community or activities in game for a story skip to be healthy in my opinion. It isn’t really a theme park. It’s got fashion/cosmetics and it’s got killing. That’s about it. The killing ranges from casual to hardcore but it’s still just killing.

Yes, I wrote something similar in Rebecca's thread.

[Firaxion]

On 2023-11-01 at 11:58 PM, (PSN)FirmBizkit said:

First paragraph very good point.

Regarding auto melee though I wouldn’t be worried - even Destiny has recently implemented it and with the levels of attack speed we can reach in this game it’s definitely needed especially on controller.

Im hoping to see auto fire next (holding trigger continuously fires semi autos) just because those weapons in shooters are kind of problematic on controllers. With the standard setup and a standard controller, having to continuously (and sometimes rapidly) press the triggers can cause recoil in the controller (much like vibration) and mess up your aim. It also causes your grip to shift from the sticks and onto the triggers/handles. The Dualsense is actually pretty bad for this because the travel distance from trigger press/depress seems to have almost doubled from what it was on the Dualshock (probably for haptics).

Perhaps I was a bit too heavy handed and direct about trying to push my point across.

I agree auto melee isnt a problem at all and I would 100% completely support the idea of auto fire for semis as well (as a option toggle of course).

It wouldn't surprise me if DE is drip feeding "controversial" changes and waiting to see if there is a large pushback or not before trying anything similar.

Based upon this and my mobile release theory, we could see auto mode for all guns fairly soon imo, and I hope this is the case as well.

It would still be nice to have something more improved about melee from a skill requirement point of view, but I believe pablo said something about perfect heavy attacks being worked on during a stream or something to that effect, so clearly something is WIP...

New WF leads at DE are doing a good job, definitely making changes, I guess I'm simply concerned about top down push for maximizing profit which ends up "accidentally" completely destroying the game because of ivory tower out of touch logic.

*cough* wizards of the coast *cough* magic the gathering *COUGH*.... ahem....

(Whilst auto melee might not seem very controversial now, I definitely remember some people on the forums being quite strongly against it at some point)

(( Also it's hard to tell what type of feedback actually makes it through I try to hit the main points with as much punch as possible xP))

[Rachel_dArc]

I mentioned this way back on Page 2, but I'll repeat it here.

For this new arc, you may want to allow new players a choice coming in:
1) Start from the Very Beginning.
2) Start at the Duviri Paradox.
3) Start at the new quest.  If the player chooses #3, they get the bare necessities for what's needed to go in. A very simple railjack, a very simple necromech, etc. They get a story told of what's come before - and they can go into the story as a 'prelude' of sorts to get things and expand on what they have.  If the quest locks you out (like the New War did), you could have it done as 'flashbacks' to do old material so they can build up, get Mastery, etc, for the storyline.

Or heck, you could do a 'story only' mode, where the original line is done as a story with graphics and such, laying out what happened, and the player gets the 'reward' for listening to the story as it unfolds, maybe? Sort of how some people go onto YouTube and watch the 'movie' of some of the more recent video games, so they can enjoy the story without having to go through all the game play.

Or maybe the player only has to do key scenes from the original plot - the important bits. They're all linked together into a single 'arc'  -  all the story quests are built into a sort of 'awakening of the Tenno' thing, rather than being bits-and-pieces.  It'd make the quest a lot faster, I think.  Rather than having to fight through every planet and do all the challenges getting through.  They can simply go 'A, B, C, D', and it's all lined up for them.  In fact, I do think that'd be a lot easier for new players too, since they'd not have to scrounge and search for the story parts.  The other quests (Darvo, Kubro, Titania, etc) could still be side-quests.

[Highasafly]

On 2023-10-27 at 9:20 PM, Genitive said:

There is only that much streamlining you can do. You don't have a traditional campaign where you do one quest after another, like Destiny 2. At some point you will have to grind to improve your stuff and unlock more missions, etc. 

It's really not a big deal. People who will want to experience the game as it is will still do it. Those who don't, will get the skip. For DE it makes sense because it will mean that more potential new players will stay longer. For players it will hardly make any difference.

Aaand they might not implement it at all if people are too upset.

Grinding for stuff (weapons, frames) is fine but those like fortuna or cetus syndices grind should be reduced and decoupled from progression. In what world is it ok that u need to do 200 bounties in vallis or poe to reach rank  5 in those syndicates.

Edited November 3, 2023 by Highasafly

[Genitive]

2 minutes ago, Highasafly said:

Grinding for stuff (weapons, frames) is fine but those like fortuna or cetus syndices grind should be reduced and decoupled from progression. In what world is it ok that u need to do 200 bounties in vallis or poe to reach rank  5 in those syndicates.

Reaching rank 5 in these is not required to progress the main story. I don't think the skip would include maxing any syndicate.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

On 2023-10-29 at 9:13 AM, Cerikus said:

Yes, exactly.

Good solution would be a rework of the entire starchart, big audit of all planets, missions and quests and streamlining the onboarding experience so new player can catch up with othes within 20 hours. It would also need a big cinematic quest that takes a player from Earth to Uranus.

Good solution that will never happen.

 

In response to your "least bad solution" post, 

 

I would find "skip button" more palatable if it wasnt *paid*. Because aside from the greed aspect of it DE would suddenly be in a position where they have a financial incentive to make quests grindy/long/difficult just to steer players towards that.