I would throw money at a non-humanoid Warframe alarmingly quickly.

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

3 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Yeah, see, this is the exact problem.

Wisp doesn't have a different movement system. It's the exact same one with some animations thrown in for the walk/run cycle.

It uses the same animation skeleton, the same everything else, just the walk/run cycle is different.

I can see DE expanding on all of that, giving us visually distinct and varied appearing frames. More of those things you like.

But it will be within that framework. It won't be the kind of thing people are asking for in this thread.

And that's upsetting because I wanted it too.

God forbid we recognise that its a videogame company full of creatives who can find a clever way to make things be. 

[DrBorris]

5 minutes ago, (XBOX)Architect Prime said:

It's the inverse. Jumping straight to "it's too much work" is intellectually lazy, and a lie told to the self. 

Ah, so the only logical conclusion is to completely ignore that aspect. Got it.

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

1 hour ago, DrBorris said:

Ah, so the only logical conclusion is to completely ignore that aspect. Got it.

Correct. This is about what we would like to see. It is not our jobs to predict how capable DE may or may not be. Imagine what would happen if nobody had pushed for cross save and cross play? The usual suspects would claim that it's too much work and nothing would happen. Only through showing interest and giving feedback, no matter how silly, do creators know what to work toward to please their fanbase. I say this from a writer's perspective, but I am also irritated by the growing anti-critique culture that's hurting art as a whole. Additionally, I'll add that people who don't give feedback are frustrating, since they will then complain after the fact when they could've gotten their two cents in - be it flowers or fire. 

Edited November 16, 2023 by (XBOX)Architect Prime

[DrBorris]

47 minutes ago, (XBOX)Architect Prime said:

Correct. This is about what we would like to see. IT is not our jobs to predict how capable DE may or may not be. Imagine what would happen if nobody had pushed for cross save and cross play? The usual suspects would claim that it's too much work and nothing would happen. Only through showing interest and giving feedback, no matter how silly, do creators know what to work toward to please their fanbase. I say this from a writer's perspective, but I am also irritated by the growing anti-critique culture that's hurting art as a whole. 

Oh... so I'm anti-critique because I try to understand as many aspects to a topic as possible... Because you are choosing to be ignorant to how games are made in this thread where you suggest how to make a game, I have no idea what you're actually asking for. Do you want unique run/walk cycles a la Wisp? Do you want unique weapon handling animations? Do you just want a beast exalted mode?

I don't know, and neither does DE. This isn't me being anti-critique it is me being pro-understanding. I have the apparently hot take of thinking that you should try to understand the ramifications of a thing when discussing it, an intelligent discussion isn't had on willful ignorance.

 

Also what is with this cross-save stuff? For one, it clearly was as difficult as people had assumed it to be given it isn't out yet. It has been awhile, but I don't remember conversations being "it's impossible." I do remember some threads where someone ignorantly said "this game should have cross save, it shouldn't be too hard" and were blasted with "bruh... it would be extremely hard." Furthermore, are you unironically saying that the benefit of "beast" animations are equivalent to cross-save? Cost-benefit balance is a thing...

I will also gladly mock anyone who suggests DE switch engines, which according to your logic is a perfectly reasonable request because we shouldn't consider the effort required to implement something.

Edited November 16, 2023 by DrBorris

[Karyst]

18 hours ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

Did you perhaps reply to the wrong person?  I didn't say Voruna was humanoid.*

*Though she most definitely is humanoid according to every use of that term I've encountered in my life.  She's bipedal with two arms, two legs, torso, and head on top.  And generally speaking, that's the usage of humanoid I've encountered.  If anything, I would expect alternate definitions of the term to encompass even more types of creatures, in addition to those like Voruna.

If it helps, I found this page to be a helpful and interesting read, as it covers a lot of different usages of the term throughout a diversity of subject matters: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanoid

She is on all 4 in her 4, therefore, she is furoid.

[Nekomian]

12 hours ago, (XBOX)Architect Prime said:

This is about what we would like to see. It is not our jobs to predict how capable DE may or may not be. Imagine what would happen if nobody had pushed for cross save and cross play? The usual suspects would claim that it's too much work and nothing would happen. Only through showing interest and giving feedback, no matter how silly, do creators know what to work toward to please their fanbase.

So it's fine to give feedback on these things (or want changes like this), and is quite welcomed by creators tbh; the issue comes when stating things like "I don't care", as it's being dismissive of reasons why that certain thing might be delayed or prevented, taking a very narrow stance on things. I don't think anyone would be opposed to something like this as it's a cool concept, but having realistic expectations is important otherwise everyone wants their specific feedback implemented and collectively goes "this should be easy, why isn't it done already it's a no brainer, you should focus on this thing I'm talking about".

Everything is "do-able" with coding and enough time, but it's also important to recognize in feedback that there's a large difference between requests like "make this ability a toggle" vs "re-code your entire engine and net code, and fly me to Mars to play the game there". This suggestion isn't quite that dramatic haha, but it does take a considerable effort and time investment, and recognizing that (instead of dismissing it) is important.

[(PSN)Unstar]

7 hours ago, Karyst said:

She is on all 4 in her 4, therefore, she is furoid.

I assume you're joking, since any humanoid can get down on all 4's.

[Birdframe_Prime]

19 hours ago, (XBOX)Architect Prime said:

God forbid we recognise that its a videogame company full of creatives who can find a clever way to make things be. 

God forbid that we listen to that video game company full of creatives when they tell us they aren't going to make it work, not for a long time, if ever, because it's an amount of work they aren't prepared to do.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

On 2023-11-15 at 7:48 AM, (PSN)lordialidem said:

these furries need jesus

Hey now, they haven't done anything weird yet...

 

On 2023-11-16 at 8:15 PM, Birdframe_Prime said:

God forbid that we listen to that video game company full of creatives when they tell us they aren't going to make it work, not for a long time, if ever, because it's an amount of work they aren't prepared to do.

Tbh they could make a frame that's like grendel, Sevagoth, or Yareli where it goes into an "all fours mode" with a faster movement speed, different/tweaked abilities, and an exalted weapon (or two). 

But one that's always on it's fours? Unlikely since, similarly to you, idk how it would handle cutscenes, the most obvious being the (spoiler) cutscenes of second dream where the Warframe falls on it's knees and then a minute afterwards has to (spoiler) the (spoiler) to the orbiter or during war within when you escape the Kuva queen and then you jump out of the water with your sword drawn to fight her.

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

On 2023-11-16 at 2:59 AM, DrBorris said:

Oh... so I'm anti-critique because-

Yeah I'm going to ignore this stuff going forward so that nobody is able to drag me away from the actual conversation on this thread. You can drag someone else off that cliff. It won't be me. 

 

On 2023-11-16 at 11:18 PM, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

Tbh they could make a frame that's like grendel, Sevagoth, or Yareli where it goes into an "all fours mode" with a faster movement speed, different/tweaked abilities, and an exalted weapon (or two). 

But one that's always on it's fours? Unlikely since, similarly to you, idk how it would handle cutscenes, the most obvious being the (spoiler) cutscenes of second dream where the Warframe falls on it's knees and then a minute afterwards has to (spoiler) the (spoiler) to the orbiter or during war within when you escape the Kuva queen and then you jump out of the water with your sword drawn to fight her.

I'm content to see any new variety brought into the Warframe shape!

 

[Hexerin]

On 2023-11-14 at 7:32 PM, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

Nah she's fine, a human body trying to run on all fours looks goofy as fridge

Only if you have no clue what you're doing with animation design, which as we can easily see by the multitude of great animations in this game doesn't apply to DE.

You know what actually looks dumb as hell? Voruna going down on all fours when she activates Ulfrun's Descent, to then stand back up when she moves. Nobody of sound mind would actually defend that garbage.

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

55 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Only if you have no clue what you're doing with animation design, which as we can easily see by the multitude of great animations in this game doesn't apply to DE.

It is a sociological facination that people on here are SO negativity biased and unreasonable lol. People must know the obvious truth, which you pointed out there, but something internally is causing them to go on these campaigns againts all ideas and progress. Maybe something unrelated is stressing them out. 

Edited November 17, 2023 by (XBOX)Architect Prime

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

4 minutes ago, (XBOX)Architect Prime said:

It is a sociological facination that people on here are SO negativity biased and unreasonable lol. People must know the obvious truth, which you pointed out there, but something internally is causing them to go on these campaigns againts all ideas and progress. Maybe something unrelated is stressing them out. 

No one is saying no to these ideas of non humanoid frames just be realistic for a bit, they're not going to do it if it takes too much work while not getting much back for it.

1 hour ago, Hexerin said:

Only if you have no clue what you're doing with animation design, which as we can easily see by the multitude of great animations in this game doesn't apply to DE.

And what would you suggest then?

[Hexerin]

On 2023-11-16 at 7:27 PM, Hexerin said:

Only if you have no clue what you're doing with animation design, which as we can easily see by the multitude of great animations in this game doesn't apply to DE.

You know what actually looks dumb as hell? Voruna going down on all fours when she activates Ulfrun's Descent, to then stand back up when she moves. Nobody of sound mind would actually defend that garbage.

Speaking of how to do animation for humanoid running on all fours, this fight is a more recent example (of an endless list of examples in the medium) of one of many possible designs that could work. Minor spoilers for Mushoku Tensei, etc.

Spoiler

 

Notice how they animated Pursena in the second half of the fight. She doesn't just continuously have partial contact with the ground via some of her limbs, like an actual animal generally does. Most of her forward momentum is generated by using her legs to push forward in a sort of horizontal leap/lunge (similar to how bullet jumping works in the game), while using her arms more like stabilizers to keep her upper body level and off the ground. This bypasses the obvious imbalance of the humanoid form, where the legs are significantly longer than the arms.

Oh right, another example from the same series (also minor spoilers, from a much earlier episode):

Spoiler

 

You'll have to watch this one frame-by-frame to see (on PC, click the video to pause, then use your period and comma keys to move frame by frame). She has basically the same form as Pursena, but in this case you have a much clearer example of the overall movements (since the camera angle is directly from the side). You also get a few frames of the movements from behind just after, giving an idea of how it might look to the Voruna player.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Hexerin

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

15 hours ago, Hexerin said:

Speaking of how to do animation for humanoid running on all fours.

I genuinely believe that people who say things like "running on all fours animations are impossible" actually know it's possible and has been done many times (in every single medium), and they've just shoved it to the back of their minds. It's kind of like if I pitched a movie idea of a giant lizard that just detroys stuff, people would ignore Godzilla and Jurassic park and everything else like that, and they would just say it's outlandish and can't be done. Or maybe even "the special effects for atomic breath can't be done, because it would be too much work for the film makers". It's all a bunch of nonsense negativity, castles built on pillars of sand. 

[Loza03]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Architect Prime said:

I genuinely believe that people who say things like "running on all fours animations are impossible" actually know it's possible and has been done many times (in every single medium), and they've just shoved it to the back of their minds. It's kind of like if I pitched a movie idea of a giant lizard that just detroys stuff, people would ignore Godzilla and Jurassic park and everything else like that, and they would just say it's outlandish and can't be done. Or maybe even "the special effects for atomic breath can't be done, because it would be too much work for the film makers". It's all a bunch of nonsense negativity, castles built on pillars of sand. 

Nobody is saying 'it's impossible'. People are saying 'it's too hard for too little reward'.

Here's a counter-example: Larian Studios two most recent RPG's and their resident scaly races. Dragonborn and Lizards. Most notably, that the former have basically-human feet and basically-human, whilst the latter do not. Now first of all - yes, there's lore differences in how they look. However, whilst there's some precedence for Plantigrade Dragonborn (and WOTC artists seem unusally unwilling to show us), the most up-to-date depiction we have, Fizban's Treasury of Dragons solidly depicts Digitigrade Dragonborn, and the Players Handbook art seems to be doing so too and the description notes them as 'claws'.

So what gives? Why are Larian's Dragonborn not up on their toes then? Well, simple. Because there's dozens of boot items that'd require entirely separate models. The same is true for most Gloves, since canon Dragonborn only have four fingers, whilst BG3 Dragonborn quite distinctly have five. So clearly, Larian just can't do it. They're not clever or intelligent, or passionate enough!

Except... The Red Prince Divinity 2 - Imgur (Tried to insert an image directly, forums are being a pain to that end). Completely different model, animations rig, armour designs. And actually two - Lizards in Divinity are extremely dimorphic, with even taller, more slender Lizard Ladies with dramatic head-crests, which necessitates that they get all those same trimmings too of unique animations, unique armour, unique rigs.

And the thing is this is the same Devs. So clearly, they're not stupid. They didn't suddenly forget how to make completely unique reptillian races (though their scale texturing and head models certainly improved - BG3 Dragonborn are beautiful) with completely unique animations and armour designs. Especially since completely lore-accurate Kobolds show up, digitigrade and all.

So what's the difference? Simple. Playable Lizards were a part of Divinity Original Sin 2 right from the word go. Original story plans had an entire Lizard-focused area, which was sadly cut (maybe for D:OS3, if we ever get it), and the Lizard Lore overhaul from some of the more regrettable depictions in earlier entries was a major theme. Dragonborn, by contrast, were added late into development.  Compared to other races, there's very little Dragonborn reactivity in spite of most of it being 'Wow it sure is rare and unusual' - and yet none of the kids or racists of the game are like 'Eek a dragon!' Dragonborn NPC's only show up in Act 3 and in the Dark Urge's campaign, both of which are later-development additions.

So the answer becomes clear - Larian COULD have delayed the game to make entirely lore-accurate Dragonborn, with their own equipment models and unique animations. Nothing was stopping them creatively. But it would just have been a bad idea to delay the game even longer for so little reward. 

 

The same is true for Warframe, with the addition of the constant pressure of the next update being just over the horizon, and always needed to feed an ever-hungry playerbase. I would adore a non-humanoid frame or a playable Zanuka. But I sincerely doubt we'll get one.

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

It's too hard for too little reward

That right there is why I don't care about new frames that are released. If the frame isn't insanely beautiful or in some way unique, It won't really turn my gaze. They should spend more time making frames more interesting. As it stands, it seems like 4 out of 5 frames are not worth the grind after you have a good number of them. So for me, and I know I'm not everybody, they could come out with one or two ultra developed frames per year and I'd probably spend more time with that content. Just my opinion, I understand that I might not be in the majority. I just prefer rare definitives over the antithesis of that. 

Edited December 3, 2023 by (XBOX)Architect Prime

[Reitrix]

2 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Nobody is saying 'it's impossible'. People are saying 'it's too hard for too little reward'.

Here's a counter-example: Larian Studios two most recent RPG's and their resident scaly races. Dragonborn and Lizards. Most notably, that the former have basically-human feet and basically-human, whilst the latter do not. Now first of all - yes, there's lore differences in how they look. However, whilst there's some precedence for Plantigrade Dragonborn (and WOTC artists seem unusally unwilling to show us), the most up-to-date depiction we have, Fizban's Treasury of Dragons solidly depicts Digitigrade Dragonborn, and the Players Handbook art seems to be doing so too and the description notes them as 'claws'.

So what gives? Why are Larian's Dragonborn not up on their toes then? Well, simple. Because there's dozens of boot items that'd require entirely separate models. The same is true for most Gloves, since canon Dragonborn only have four fingers, whilst BG3 Dragonborn quite distinctly have five. So clearly, Larian just can't do it. They're not clever or intelligent, or passionate enough!

Except... The Red Prince Divinity 2 - Imgur (Tried to insert an image directly, forums are being a pain to that end). Completely different model, animations rig, armour designs. And actually two - Lizards in Divinity are extremely dimorphic, with even taller, more slender Lizard Ladies with dramatic head-crests, which necessitates that they get all those same trimmings too of unique animations, unique armour, unique rigs.

And the thing is this is the same Devs. So clearly, they're not stupid. They didn't suddenly forget how to make completely unique reptillian races (though their scale texturing and head models certainly improved - BG3 Dragonborn are beautiful) with completely unique animations and armour designs. Especially since completely lore-accurate Kobolds show up, digitigrade and all.

So what's the difference? Simple. Playable Lizards were a part of Divinity Original Sin 2 right from the word go. Original story plans had an entire Lizard-focused area, which was sadly cut (maybe for D:OS3, if we ever get it), and the Lizard Lore overhaul from some of the more regrettable depictions in earlier entries was a major theme. Dragonborn, by contrast, were added late into development.  Compared to other races, there's very little Dragonborn reactivity in spite of most of it being 'Wow it sure is rare and unusual' - and yet none of the kids or racists of the game are like 'Eek a dragon!' Dragonborn NPC's only show up in Act 3 and in the Dark Urge's campaign, both of which are later-development additions.

So the answer becomes clear - Larian COULD have delayed the game to make entirely lore-accurate Dragonborn, with their own equipment models and unique animations. Nothing was stopping them creatively. But it would just have been a bad idea to delay the game even longer for so little reward. 

 

The same is true for Warframe, with the addition of the constant pressure of the next update being just over the horizon, and always needed to feed an ever-hungry playerbase. I would adore a non-humanoid frame or a playable Zanuka. But I sincerely doubt we'll get one.

There is reason to go that extra mile in Warframe though. 
Given the consistent additions of new frames, taking the work to create a new skeleton give sthem even more freedom in what they can create. 

Monster Hunter would be a good example of how that plays out. 
Many monsters in that series you wouldnt think use the same skeleton, but they do. Tigrex uses the same skeleton as Rathalos for example. Showing how you can twist a bipedal (Rathalos being bipedal, wings only used for flight) to Tigrex using its wings as forearms in a quadruped stance. 
Gore Magala IIRC was the first skeleton of its type, but adding that skeleton allowed them to create things like Valstrax, Xeno/Safi and Nergigante.

So DE taking the time to create a quadruped skeleton and its associated basic animations gives them a base upon which to create whole new warframes that current skeletons cant do. 
Grendel needed a unique skeleton. And now because they have it, We can get more frames that call for a chunkier skeleton. 

As a preference though, I think playable quadrupeds should be using Necramech mechanics. 
To use the example of the cyber dragon from earlier in the thread, all they'd need is a sprinting animation for the ground slide and then a flappy wing animation for the hover. 
Whispers in the Wall is also bringing a centaur style enemy. So there is a skeleton and animations to use as a baseline right there. 

Id also like to point out that when Ballas makes a Warframe, he is personally molding it into the shape it has. He isnt just injecting the helminth strain and then hoping something neat happens. He's controlling the process. 
We also have Nidus, a frame who delves deeper into the infested side of Warframes. 
Orokin bioengineering could easily create a quadruped out of a human.

Your example of BG3 and DOS doesnt fit for Warframe, because those skeletons are made to accomodate the equipment you'd be putting on a characters feet and legs. 
Having a digitigrade leg structure means having to duplicate every foot/leg armor model with modifications to fit that one race. The work to do that isnt viable dev time because they arent planning on adding more of those races (that we know of) to justify the time and effort. 
Its why FFXIV Hrothgar have normal human legs instead of digitigrade ones despite being big old furries, i mean cat lads. The work required for just one race is simply not feasible, Even if they were to add new ones, they'd need to add MANY new races using that leg structure to justify it. 

EDIT: Just in case someone tries to bring up WoW (Tauren, Draenei, etc) it needs to be pointed out that armor in that game is essentially a skin texture. Its most obvious with robes. Equip a robe type armor and then find your legs. Hint: You have invisible legs. 
XIV actually has models for its gear, which is why their robes let you keep your legs XD
They've done some good work over the years to bulk them out and make them appear more as a 3D model than a texture but they remain simple textures for the most part. 
Hell, they dont even really bother with Draenei/Tauren feet, they just cut the boot off at the ankle and call it a day. Trolls only recently got full foot coverings i think. 
Thats why they can get away with the unusual leg structure on some races. 

Warframe keeps adding new frames, which could feasibly use those new skeletons in new and creative ways. So it justifies the cost of development by expanding their creative options. 
Not just that but also, we only have external attachments. So the leg structures wouldnt require duplication and modification of the existing armors, simply have a placement point and you're done (perhaps duplicating an attachment on both legs in each side, but thats not hard to do and doesnt require changing the armor models themselves)

TLDR: Its worth taking the time to make non-bipedal skeletons because it only expands their creative freedoms. 

Edited December 3, 2023 by Reitrix

[Birdframe_Prime]

8 hours ago, (XBOX)Architect Prime said:

That right there is why I don't care about new frames that are released.

Well yeah, you don't have to care. You're free not to care.

The difference is that you not caring does not, and should not, mean that DE has to change anything when it's genuinely obvious to everyone else (and has been stated by the Developers multiple times) that way more people than you do care.

The ones that are actually interested in playing and paying for the game, as a mass, do care about the new frames. They do care about the new content.

And DE have ten years of experience in getting money out of the player base, in meeting player expectations and even surpassing them in some respects.

They also have ten years of following through on the concept of 'We don't plan to do that unless something massively changes about how our game works.'

When the game goes through massive changes, they bring in concepts that they couldn't before. Like the original Archwing versus the current one, the changes that happened in Railjack made it possible (even mandatory) to rework how we transitioned to space combat, requiring a dedicated space for the ship, the archwing and the on-foot bonus objectives all in the same game space.

This didn't exist before.

So.

Here's the thing for you, my friend, please listen and understand here.

If. There is suddenly a breakthrough in how DE handles movement, pathing, Ability placement, mode shifting, and the Navigation Mesh handling, all at the same time, that allows them to actually fully rig and process a quadruped (or even more complex) skeleton so that it can handle all of the things that the regular humanoid rig can handle, along with all of the other things that the quadruped skeleton would have to handle, then yes.

That's when you'll get your frame that's more interesting than just a humanoid.

That's when you'll get a more complex skeleton that can handle all of those things.

And you'll know about it at the same time as all the rest of us. You can come back here and be triumphant and say 'SEE?! I TOLD YOU THEY COULD DO IT!!!'

At which point every one of us will turn around and also say right back:

'See? We told you that's what it would take for them to do it.'

Because DE told us what it would take to do it. And ignoring DE on this is only going to make you more frustrated.

[Qriist]

On 2023-11-13 at 4:40 PM, (XBOX)Architect Prime said:

Would you rather pilot the corn cob Necramechs or play as an Evangelion cyber dragon? Seems like an obvious choice. 

Presenting option C:

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

9 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

The ones that are actually interested in playing and paying for the game, as a mass, do care about the new frames. They do care about the new content.

I know I'm not in the majority, but I by no means have a niche opinion. Compromise: keep releasing frames as usual, but put more extensive development into story-centered frames. Kinda like how umbra has a few interesting features that sets him apart. My OP is about non-humanoids, but it works as a general rule. I don't mind a delay for a major update if the frame gets to be something crazy. That just makes everything better. 

[Loza03]

15 hours ago, Reitrix said:

There is reason to go that extra mile in Warframe though. 
Given the consistent additions of new frames, taking the work to create a new skeleton give sthem even more freedom in what they can create. 

Monster Hunter would be a good example of how that plays out. 
Many monsters in that series you wouldnt think use the same skeleton, but they do. Tigrex uses the same skeleton as Rathalos for example. Showing how you can twist a bipedal (Rathalos being bipedal, wings only used for flight) to Tigrex using its wings as forearms in a quadruped stance. 
Gore Magala IIRC was the first skeleton of its type, but adding that skeleton allowed them to create things like Valstrax, Xeno/Safi and Nergigante.

This is true, but I would also like to remind you that even with existing models and skeletons, this fact still sometimes applies. After all, Lagiacrus hasn't shown up in a mainline game in 6 years, and a large part of that is the model and skeleton not playing ball, specifically for its absence in World (we don't know about Rise) Even with the tech, even with the existing content, sometimes stuff like this just does not fit.

(It's worth noting that whilst I don't know about Valstrax, Xeno/Safi and Nergigante definitely don't use the Magala Skeleton - they use a custom skeleton and a modified standard Elder skeleton respectively. Tigrex doesn't use the Rathalos one either, though the point still stands since both Nargacuga and Barioth would later go on to use that skeleton. Tea Common Shark's video makes liberal use of applying different animations to completely different skeletons.)

15 hours ago, Reitrix said:

So DE taking the time to create a quadruped skeleton and its associated basic animations gives them a base upon which to create whole new warframes that current skeletons cant do. 
Grendel needed a unique skeleton. And now because they have it, We can get more frames that call for a chunkier skeleton. 

Is this true? I've seen it stated confidently a few times, but it doesn't match with my existing information. I know that he needed more time for animations, and some of the original showcases used different animations, but in the modern game to my knowledge he uses the same animations as everyone else, which would suggest that he uses the same baseline Warframe skeleton. Likewise, other frames can use his animations fine too. To my knowledge this wouldn't be possible, or at least would break very obviously, if they weren't using the same rig. Do you have a specific source for this - I remember the devstreams around this time but it's vague.

16 hours ago, Reitrix said:

As a preference though, I think playable quadrupeds should be using Necramech mechanics. 
To use the example of the cyber dragon from earlier in the thread, all they'd need is a sprinting animation for the ground slide and then a flappy wing animation for the hover. 
Whispers in the Wall is also bringing a centaur style enemy. So there is a skeleton and animations to use as a baseline right there. 

I mean, that would definitely be more workable, because now there's no pressure to take the vast wealth of stuff reliant on the existing animations and animation rigs, or existing cinematics. It'd vastly drop the amount of stuff that'd need to be done. And well, I'm certainly not opposed to more dragons.

Don't make the mistake that Enemy skeletons can be used for players though. There's a reason that Kahl doesn't use the basic Grineer model, nor has the basic Grineer model been replaced with one based on Kahl. The standards are not the same, and the resources used aren't either.

19 hours ago, Reitrix said:

Your example of BG3 and DOS doesnt fit for Warframe, because those skeletons are made to accomodate the equipment you'd be putting on a characters feet and legs. 
Having a digitigrade leg structure means having to duplicate every foot/leg armor model with modifications to fit that one race. The work to do that isnt viable dev time because they arent planning on adding more of those races (that we know of) to justify the time and effort. 
Its why FFXIV Hrothgar have normal human legs instead of digitigrade ones despite being big old furries, i mean cat lads. The work required for just one race is simply not feasible, Even if they were to add new ones, they'd need to add MANY new races using that leg structure to justify it. 

I mean, yes. The point wasn't the feet specifically - it was... well. Exactly the point you make about the Hrothgar. Divinity had more time and it was more of a priority to make a more ambitious model and have more equipment models than Baldur's gate did, so one got the fancy treatment, one got the cost-effective one.

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

2 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Is this true?

There are a handful of frames with uniques skeletons and animations. Also game devs often spend more time deliberating about their next move than actual production. They are skilled pros that can set up a skeleton and animations without too much trouble - assuming massive code isn't involved. Rigging is regarded as the worst thing ever, and yet they've done plenty of it without dire cause. 

Besides, DE's made of grown ups who can handle some feedback. It's one of the things we like about them. 

[(PSN)PanserKunst]

Same response to a similar thread about a year ago:

This is never going to happen:

All warframes probably have a base skeleton with add-on joints for special case situations, but the base is humanoid. The previous post I could not find unfortunately. but I recall a Spider warframe was proposed. Consider how many if not all games assets would have to be re-worked. Animations were meant to be interchangeable from one frame to another. How would a spider animation work on Nidus? It wouldn't.

• You'd have to re-run cloth simulations on every syndana. 
• Transform, scale and rotate every Attachment armor piece.
• Insure every weapon would not horrendously clip when holstered.
• Revisit every emphemera
• Months of testing and bug fixing collision issues that would almost certainly arise.
• This would be hundreds if not thousands of working hours.

This thread is preposterous.

[nslay]

On 2023-11-13 at 4:58 PM, BiancaRoughfin said:

Not gonna happen. The reason Frames are controllable is they were made from humans and therefore are compatible with other humans neurologically connecting and interfacing with it.

Also, DE would have to introduce a whole story line showing Ballas playing Full Metal Alchemist in some hidden lab to explain how it was made and how it works, something The Sacrifice does for normal frames.

Are you familiar with transhumanism? Maybe humans can be augmented with more limbs or other curious abilities or physical attributes (like that guy with an antenna).