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Can we Pleaaaaaase get old Wukong Defy as a Helminth ability?

(PSN)Hopper_Orouk

By (PSN)Hopper_Orouk,
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(PSN)Hopper_Orouk

(PSN)Hopper_Orouk

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A channel ability where whenever you take lethal damage you heal instead but the healing gets worse everytime, until you don't get healed anymore.

that's literally the leveling mechanic of the video game SIFU, DE actually made something original and interesting that was used again years later in another game.

I miss it, I miss using it, I miss the thrill of having to use Quick thinking and rage with it...I just miss the whole playstyle.

 

Can we get that? Look we have Revenants walking around with 20+ invincibility charges, and Nidus has Defy as his passive...Dagath has a death defying ability that is active all the time and only has a 25 second cooldown...and I guess Voruna counts too.

Edited by (PSN)Hopper_Orouk
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(PSN)Frost_Nephilim

(PSN)Frost_Nephilim

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If he ever got that ability back DE would nerf him until no 1 plays him ever again. He already has been getting hit hard, if he git Defy back he would get annihilated from all people playing him.

Plus, with the way shields work, it feels like every frame has Defy to me. Then we got the vamp kavat too and operator reviving

I cant see it being something worth prioritizing in the games current state. I think you'd be better off asking for some sort of new weapon with a unique feature that can keep you alive like defy on some sort of condition, rather than reverting wukongs rework

Edited by (PSN)Frost_Nephilim
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(PSN)Hopper_Orouk

(PSN)Hopper_Orouk

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26 minutes ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

If he ever got that ability back DE would nerf him until no 1 plays him ever again. He already has been getting hit hard, if he git Defy back he would get annihilated from all people playing him.

Plus, with the way shields work, it feels like every frame has Defy to me. Then we got the vamp kavat too and operator reviving

I cant see it being something worth prioritizing in the games current state. I think you'd be better off asking for some sort of new weapon with a unique feature that can keep you alive like defy on some sort of condition, rather than reverting wukongs rework

I mean an ability separate from Wukong, a Helminth exclusive ability anyone can use...not reworking Wukong himself.

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Raarsi

Raarsi

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I think Defy is good enough as-is.  A lengthy invincibility window, retaliatory damage, and up to 300-500% extra armor for an extended period of time all in one ability is already pretty strong in addition the i-frame you get from Cloudwalk and his passive extra lives that let you pick a buff of your choice.

As for helminth ability, well normal Defy already comes nerfed from the helminth, so defintely wouldn't expect that reversion either.

Edited by Raarsi
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trst

trst

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There was no more gameplay to using Defy than there is in using Mesmer Skin.

Besides that making any similar ability accessible via Helminth would inevitably come with some massive drawbacks/inconveniences. Like increasing the energy drain plus reducing the heal per proc, having charges plus a cooldown, or only triggering at "low" HP and doesn't prevent one-shots.

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(PSN)Hopper_Orouk

(PSN)Hopper_Orouk

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50 minutes ago, Raarsi said:

I think Defy is good enough as-is.

I am not asking for a Defy rework, I am asking for old defy to be a new helminth ability.

 

to clarify, here's an example: 

it's like me asking DE to make Hydroid's removed ability, Undertow, as a separate, and new helminth ability...like expedite suffering, marked for death, etc

you guys really need to focus more when reading threads lol, no offense though.

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Skoomaseller

Skoomaseller

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8 minutes ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

not quite, but they synergized well with each other. you can almost say they complete each other....I rarely see any Quick thinking builds anymore

no reason for it and its many restrictions when we have health tanking with better sustain and shield gating now I suppose

i think even years back it wasn't really a popular mod. it's 100% obsolete now.

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Raarsi

Raarsi

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3 hours ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

I am not asking for a Defy rework, I am asking for old defy to be a new helminth ability.

 

to clarify, here's an example: 

it's like me asking DE to make Hydroid's removed ability, Undertow, as a separate, and new helminth ability...like expedite suffering, marked for death, etc

you guys really need to focus more when reading threads lol, no offense though.

We are focusing; it's your fault for not understanding that you can't have a helminth ability that is 100% different from the core ability it comes from.  In order to meet the request you're suggesting, the core ability would have to be changed as well with the end result being either something far too powerful for Wukong or something from the helminth that would be have to be nerfed to the point of being nearly ineffective.  Unfortunately, you can't have it both ways.

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Tiltskillet

Tiltskillet

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13 minutes ago, Raarsi said:

We are focusing; it's your fault for not understanding that you can't have a helminth ability that is 100% different from the core ability it comes from.  In order to meet the request you're suggesting, the core ability would have to be changed as well with the end result being either something far too powerful for Wukong or something from the helminth that would be have to be nerfed to the point of being nearly ineffective.  Unfortunately, you can't have it both ways.

Hopper is asking for a Helminth exclusive ability--like Expedite Suffering, Marked For Death, etc.--which wouldn't be connected to or affect Wukong's current Defy in any fashion.

Maybe if he'd given it a new name people wouldn't be so flummoxed by this. :P

 

 

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Venus-Venera

Venus-Venera

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vor 11 Stunden schrieb (PSN)Frost_Nephilim:

If he ever got that ability back DE would nerf him until no 1 plays him ever again. He already has been getting hit hard, if he git Defy back he would get annihilated from all people playing him.

Plus, with the way shields work, it feels like every frame has Defy to me. Then we got the vamp kavat too and operator reviving

I cant see it being something worth prioritizing in the games current state. I think you'd be better off asking for some sort of new weapon with a unique feature that can keep you alive like defy on some sort of condition, rather than reverting wukongs rework

I forgot the last time I saw him in public. could even be 2 years ago...
because why play him?
speed runs? well... but then I take wisp and the whole group has the speed.
dmg compensation with strange pet there? well.... again wisp extremely far ahead. and then the group hits hard with the buffs.
spy? unpopular content in my opinion. And at the moment we only play shards or just chill keys where the group can't split. Flying could be advantageous with shards, but it works without it.

wunkong was really good for beginners. but apparently was ruined to extreme?
and something like wisp(with disp skill)/nekros are clear winners and every group is looking forward to something like that.

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(PSN)Hopper_Orouk

(PSN)Hopper_Orouk

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4 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Hopper is asking for a Helminth exclusive ability--like Expedite Suffering, Marked For Death, etc.--which wouldn't be connected to or affect Wukong's current Defy in any fashion.

^^^^^

4 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Maybe if he'd given it a new name people wouldn't be so flummoxed by this. :P

Deny lol

1 hour ago, SDGDen said:

nah, new defy is much better balanced.

Read the part I replied to here.

It's amazing how much I explained it again and again, and people still don't get it.

Forums have the attention span of a Goldfish sometimes lol.

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Marvelous_A

Marvelous_A

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8 hours ago, Skoomaseller said:

wasn't old defy just a S#&$tier Quick Thinking

It's a better QT iirc. Quite similar to the very old pre-nerf Rage+QT combo I think. Anyway it still kinda exists as the current QT/rage combo but with lower efficiency.

Edited by Marvelous_A
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Raarsi

Raarsi

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5 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Hopper is asking for a Helminth exclusive ability--like Expedite Suffering, Marked For Death, etc.--which wouldn't be connected to or affect Wukong's current Defy in any fashion.

Maybe if he'd given it a new name people wouldn't be so flummoxed by this. :P

 

 

Now that makes more sense.  I look forward to them rephrasing their argument. :P

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Circle_of_Psi

Circle_of_Psi

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13 hours ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

years have passed, I'm sure we're on a different mindset now...what was broken then can be balanced now....and I repeat my given example, which is revenant who has the same type of playstyle...it can exist and it's fine.

Yeah, DE isn't going to give two tosses what the "mindset" is now, it was nerfed for a reason and will stay nerfed. People abused and used Wukong (and Defy) in AFK methods and more, this is why it got nerfed, the same reason why Marked For Death got nerfed, it was to OP.

Rev on the other hand is a tough cookie, the only thing great about Rev from what I've seen without playing myself is his Mez Skin and Reave, but since the Augment came out, it's sorta become a min version of Defy, it exists because DE have yet to do anything about it, at least so far.

 

However given that Rev is Rebs Warframe and it's Vampire/JoJo themed, it's likely never gonna get nerfed because of that. I'd like to see his Mez skin nerfed to stop another "AFK Wukong" coming up but again I rarely play Rev, only levelled the reg version, so I can't say how he comprises to old Wukong.

Edited by Circle_of_Psi
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(PSN)Hopper_Orouk

(PSN)Hopper_Orouk

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15 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

asking for a rework is one thing, asking for an ability to be reverted to its old state? that's definitely not on the cards, just ask the people who used to ask for Ash's 4 to be reverted.

Jesus christ! please read properly my guy

On 2023-11-20 at 3:01 AM, Tiltskillet said:

Hopper is asking for a Helminth exclusive ability--like Expedite Suffering, Marked For Death, etc.--which wouldn't be connected to or affect Wukong's current Defy in any fashion.

Maybe if he'd given it a new name people wouldn't be so flummoxed by this. :P

 

 

If you're not gonna read the thread properly and just skim through without knowing what it actually means then you really don't need to comment.

13 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I honestly dont see why not considering we have Mesmer Skin and it also got buffed to work consistantly in Steel Path.

A Helminth skill that provides old Defy and is called Monkey Business would be hilarious.

Sneaky, you're a a true hero, not because of what you do for a living, but because you read the post properly.

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