P L E A S E S A V E Kuva Ogris | Kuva Zarr | Kuva Bramma ! P L E A S E ! ! ! ! !

[Grimme.W]

The enemy's dropped ammunition is low, and the amount of ammunition picked up by the weapon is only 1. When using these weapons, I often encounter situations where there is no ammunition and I cannot pick up ammunition, resulting in death.Please rescue these weapons. When I see these weapons running out of ammunition, I feel very panicked; Looking at the lack of ammunition to pick up, I feel helpless; Watching Tenno die, I feel lost.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

The low ammo economy on those weapons was very much intended. And the intended solution is for you not to rely solely in huge AoE explosions and use other weapons/frame skills while you do get ammo.

You'll find yourself again right besides your secondary or melee, I'm sure.

Edited November 28, 2023 by (PSN)Hikuro-93

[MiraiSDK]

Try mod for max ammo, use Carrier, and have a bit of trigger discipline . If you can't find ammo drops and are surronded by enemies... you do know we have two other weapons (secondary and melee), use them.

[RichardKam]

It has been almost a year already. Stop doing this to yourself. Refusing to let go is not healthy.

[Kaiga]

I don't think this is a serious post. 
These weapons aren't weak, some ammo mutation/carrier prime and some trigger discipline lets you use them perfectly fine.

Or, use something like the angstrum or carmine penta if you're looking for weapons with a bigger ammo pool.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 50 Minuten schrieb Grimme.W:

The enemy's dropped ammunition is low, and the amount of ammunition picked up by the weapon is only 1. When using these weapons, I often encounter situations where there is no ammunition and I cannot pick up ammunition, resulting in death.Please rescue these weapons. When I see these weapons running out of ammunition, I feel very panicked; Looking at the lack of ammunition to pick up, I feel helpless; Watching Tenno die, I feel lost.

yes. and hf with shield gate where you need 2 shots to kill low lvl trash enemy with your pimped aoe gun... And I don't even want to know how people without max forma and maxed mods play with it. This is better than any clown show

and the weapons were deliberately ruined. Even on the ancient devstream they cheated live with ammo drop code because it was impossible to play with that.

 

[VibingCat]

Those weapons are still absolutely spammable as long as:

1) each shot kills several enemies

2) you have ammo mutation

3) you use primary dexterity instead of merciless

And that's it. With Carrier and Energized Munitions they are even more reliable. 

[Kaiga]

6 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

and the weapons were deliberately ruined.

That's not a very accurate description. The only thing that update did was rebalance the ammo pools of some of the top performing AOE guns which, like i said, is very easy to play around with a little fire control.

An example of something that was actually ruined intentionally and left broken by DE was Wukong's clone, as they broke his AI in that update so he loses targeting and stares at the floor with full ammo while getting gunned down, and it hasn't been fixed since.
 

Edited November 27, 2023 by Kaiga

[VibingCat]

2 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

yes. and hf with shield gate where you need 2 shots to kill low lvl trash enemy with your pimped aoe gun... And I don't even want to know how people without max forma and maxed mods play with it. This is better than any clown show

and the weapons were deliberately ruined. Even on the ancient devstream they cheated live with ammo drop code because it was impossible to play with that.

 

Shield gating can be bypassed with multishot and toxin. 

These weapons are still viable without any doubts, even in steel path. You're probably shooting too often at single targets rather than groups.

[Numerounius]

Use it with Energized Munitions. Makes a world of a difference.

What does need saving is the Akarius and the soon to be released Akarius prime, it was already struggling before the ammo changes due to being a status-based weapon and was made worse. The only saving grace is if you get the infinite secondary ammo fissure buff. Tried making that weapon work and then was forced to drop it afterwards despite my attempts at slotting it into builds.

[Venus-Venera]

Gerade eben schrieb VibingCat:

Shield gating can be bypassed with multishot and toxin. 

These weapons are still viable without any doubts, even in steel path. You're probably shooting too often at single targets rather than groups.

I know from another game: there devs did some absolutely sick nonsense and then there were actually "people" (?) who defended this change in the forum. Those were definitely the employees from the company. but it doesn't matter.

and then I saw your post with great tips and tricks. I immediately got popcorn from the kitchen. because I almost had tears in my eyes when I laughed.

[VibingCat]

5 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

I know from another game: there devs did some absolutely sick nonsense and then there were actually "people" (?) who defended this change in the forum. Those were definitely the employees from the company. but it doesn't matter.

and then I saw your post with great tips and tricks. I immediately got popcorn from the kitchen. because I almost had tears in my eyes when I laughed.

What's the point of ammo pickups if one can shoot uncontrollably? You clearly have a skill issue and I'll be laughing at that, good luck with your popcorn.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 14 minutos, Venus-Venera dijo:

I know from another game: there devs did some absolutely sick nonsense and then there were actually "people" (?) who defended this change in the forum

If nerfing broken things is stupid, I think you live in the wrong world my friend.

Edited November 27, 2023 by CosoMalvadoNG

[Mazifet]

uh oh! looks like someone forgot to properly manage their ammo!

[The_Royal_Elf_Mika]

Zarr(kuva) needs a separate ammo counter for it's shotgun mode.

[BiancaRoughfin]

1 hour ago, Grimme.W said:

The enemy's dropped ammunition is low, and the amount of ammunition picked up by the weapon is only 1. When using these weapons, I often encounter situations where there is no ammunition and I cannot pick up ammunition, resulting in death.Please rescue these weapons. When I see these weapons running out of ammunition, I feel very panicked; Looking at the lack of ammunition to pick up, I feel helpless; Watching Tenno die, I feel lost.

Grab a weapon that requires aiming instead of more ammunition. Problem solved...

[SDGDen]

27 minutes ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

If nerfing broken things is stupid, I think you live in the wrong world my friend.

weirdly, this is a returning issue within the warframe community.

they're allergic to the idea of nerfs.

genuinely, if i had a dollar for every time someone on this forum suggested "why not just buff the other items instead of nerfing the overpowered items" i could quit my job and become a full time explainer of game design theory on this forum. 

 

and the worst part? community backlash to nerfs works.

DE used to nerf more. they used to rework more to lower the power of items. they dont do that as much anymore because of how much backlash the players throw at the devs. yall remember the saryn rework? when they removed her ability to simply spam 4? during that time i saw *multiple* people make death threats because their favourite 4spam frame was nerfed to now require more interactive gameplay (nevermind the fact that saryn is now actually stronger than back when you could simply spam 4 because she now scales properly instead of just dealing a flat amount of damage that happens to be large enough for most mission types out at the time) 

this is why the steel path exists, to combat powercreep.

this is why DE releases frames underpowered, they get less backlash doing that and then buffing than risking a release being a bit too strong and having to nerf it.

this is why the forums light on fire every time DE forgets about something, resulting in an unintended massive power spike (recent example: elemental ward not being re-scaled for the new way health/shield/armor modifiers work). the players will latch on within 2 or 3 hours and after that? if you nerf it back to intended values they'll be mad. 

 

 

[ReddyDisco]

Working as intended, move on

[Seele]

What needs saving? I routinely have entire missions carpet-bombed by Kuva Zarr spam, and at the end the Zarr player has gotten 90% of kills and damage. Use the myriad options available to you to mitigate the downside of the weapon, or choose something else that better fits your playstyle.

[0_The_F00l]

1 hour ago, (NSW)Royal_Elf_Mika said:

Zarr(kuva) needs a separate ammo counter for it's shotgun mode.

This I can get behind , 

The shotgun mode should be 3x more efficient in my opinion. 

This can be achieved by 

1) enabling ammo efficiency on the shotgun mode at 70% ,

2) increasing the magazine and ammo capacity by 3x , and having barrage mode consume 3x as much ammo.

Edited November 27, 2023 by 0_The_F00l

[Jivy]

Incarnons are better anyways now

[PollexMessier]

I don't think the ammo of these things should've ever been nerfed the way they were. That whole update was a dumpster fire.
Ogris in particular is really stupid cus it's damage output is exceptionally lower than many of the others that were hit just as hard.

They SHOULD have given us self damage back and actually balanced that properly. Like they should have done from the very beginning, instead of replacing it with self knockback just because Rebecca's favorite youtuber demanded self damage be removed instead of fixed.

But. Just use ammo mutation in the Exilus slot. These weapons have literally no better mod to slot there but ammo mutation, besides Cautious shot if you've decided to torture yourself by not putting primed sure footed on everything.

[Keiyadan]

i still use the ogris and just change the build i used to get around the ammo problems my build works fine

but by the nerf it was clear to me that where the problem was is what level is the base for balance if we take level 1 enemys nearly anything is op
if we take level 100enemys still alot of stuff is useable without any big deal
even sp enemys are sometimes so weak that no real thought needs to be realy done on defeating them
they nerfed everything they could about aoe weapons and i get that but galdly it hit myself with next to no hard stops on makeing weapons non viable anymore
 

but well i myself dont realy play in open groups more often where it is supposed give out even less ammo for the weapons like ogris and co

[Sporthand]

4 hours ago, Grimme.W said:

The enemy's dropped ammunition is low, and the amount of ammunition picked up by the weapon is only 1. When using these weapons, I often encounter situations where there is no ammunition and I cannot pick up ammunition, resulting in death.Please rescue these weapons. When I see these weapons running out of ammunition, I feel very panicked; Looking at the lack of ammunition to pick up, I feel helpless; Watching Tenno die, I feel lost.

Me,  three rounds per magazine for picking up with 15 rounds of pool ammunition. And, still clearing out all hostiles within the area, as choosing only Rhino!

[Skoomaseller]

kzarr barrage mode needs a separate ammo counter, otherwise the aoe modes are still fine with just an ammo mutator, no matter the mission.

I will say though, bramma needs its base ammo bumped up by 2. I think 5 is a bit too little for it.