Starting to burn out a bit (feedback)

[Voltage]

2 minutes ago, (PSN)FrDiabloFr said:

It’s not everyone bar at all, sounds like you’re blanket stating, i’ve spoke to a few players who said they got to a point they don’t enjoy the game but they play to itch their ocd or that they are so comfortable/deep into a routine they struggle to stop.

Sure, but my comment has the implication of omitting people with severe issues like that. Everyone who plays a video game does so to feel satisfied with their time (aka "having fun"). Someone who has crippling OCD is still trying to satisfy their time, it's just an unhealthy problem that they are dealing with.

This is just basic truths.

[(PSN)FirmBizkit]

5 minutes ago, trst said:

Most of WF's FOMO becomes irrelevant for being old too. It'd be exactly the same in any game when a new event pops around with some considerable reward. Or when one finishes content then no longer needs to engage with it again until given reason to.

It's all the same here, Plague Star is irrelevant to anyone who already got the unique rewards from previous runnings/other content while the Forma is irrelevant to anyone who already farmed a stockpile. Archon Hunts become irrelevant once one acquires all the Shards they'd need. You're done with the Circuit once you get all the Incarnons or at least just the ones you'd ever plan on using. And even Eidolon hunting dies once you get the Arcanes/Eidolon Shards you need from it.

Well that’s pretty much what I said. It seems to be largely designed around veteran players (those who have really engaged with the content at its release and put it behind them) and for a newish player it’s overwhelming 

This is why FFXIV doesn’t have weekly lockouts for its old content. It would be insane 😂

Edited December 9, 2023 by (PSN)FirmBizkit

[(PSN)FrDiabloFr]

5 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Sure, but my comment has the implication of omitting people with severe issues like that. Everyone who plays a video game does so to feel satisfied with their time (aka "having fun"). Someone who has crippling OCD is still trying to satisfy their time, it's just an unhealthy problem that they are dealing with.

This is just basic truths.

I mean sure i guess, i wouldn’t say it’s a severe issue people sometimes just get into a routine and they don’t like to break that routine, you’d be surprised how many people don’t actually enjoy said games they grind.

Edited December 9, 2023 by (PSN)FrDiabloFr

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

I'll just parrot what others have been saying. If the game is starting to feel like a chore instead of fun, it's time to take a break. I guarantee you'll feel recharged when you return after a few months away.

[-Krism-]

18 minutes ago, (PSN)FirmBizkit said:

I mean, I want to play. I’m just feeling overwhelmed from everything being demanded of me and pulling me in so many different directions. Like I said I have a lot of relics and some Railjack I’d like to do. I actually have like… 10 side quests to do still. It’s just so many different limited time gated progression systems overwhelming me.

Ah, too much choice, I see, I got ADHD so I know that feeling all too well, sadly I have nothing to remedy that

 

18 minutes ago, Voltage said:

That's everyone's bar.

After visiting the forums for years, I have to disagree, not everyone here plays the game for fun

 

16 minutes ago, sly_squash said:

you must really not like the content if you choose to do something else instead.

How many times do I have to say it? Don't put words in my mouth, you don't know how I see things, me not doing them doesn't mean I don't like them, so please, don't speak on my behalf next time

[-Krism-]

17 minutes ago, (PSN)FrDiabloFr said:

It’s not everyone bar at all, sounds like you’re blanket stating, i’ve spoke to a few players who said they got to a point they don’t enjoy the game but they play to itch their ocd or that they are so comfortable/deep into a routine they struggle to stop.

Exactly what I was referring to, thank you

To answer you @Voltage

[(PSN)FrDiabloFr]

4 minutes ago, -Krism- said:

Exactly what I was referring to, thank you

To answer you @Voltage

Ye I understood you and have heard this in other grind heavy games, it just be becomes second nature.

 

4 minutes ago, -Krism- said:

Exactly what I was referring to, thank you

To answer you @Voltage

I understood you amigo.

Edited December 9, 2023 by (PSN)FrDiabloFr

[Hypernaut1]

That's funny, because to me, WF is by far the easiest live-service game to pick back up where you left and not feel more than a few weeks behind everyone else. 

Circuit rotations arent that long, archon shards is really just busy work, sorties can be skipped, NW can be completed at a snails pace. 

[Voltage]

50 minutes ago, sly_squash said:

It's particularly troublesome when all these weeklies get in the way of other goals you have within the game that you can rarely get around to pursuing because you're so busy trying to keep up with the FOMO stuff.

This is my biggest issue with how much of it has become the normal/expected content cycle. It's mildly annoying in the beginning, but has now grown to an amount that gets in the way with what you'd be otherwise doing in the game. For those who feel satisfied with their goals in Warframe, that then becomes an obstruction from taking a break.

I'm sure someone will quote me with some nonsense like "it doesn't obstruct you from feeling like taking a break, you do", but the reality is, most players will easily climb that hurdle, but there shouldn't be one there in the first place.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Voltage

[Hypernaut1]

2 minutes ago, Voltage said:

This is my biggest issue with how much of it has become the normal/expected content cycle. It's mildly annoying in the beginning, but has now grown to an amount that gets in the way with what you'd be otherwise doing in the game. For those who feel satisfied with their goals in Warframe, that then becomes an obstruction from taking a break.

I'm sure someone will quote me with some nonsense like "it doesn't obstruct you from feeling like taking a break, you do", but the reality is, most players will easily climb that hurdle, but there shouldn't be one there in the first place.

But what exactly are you chasing that the weeklies are such a big distraction? The circuit is the most time consuming one and that's on permanent rotation,sk there really is no need to rush if you don't feel like doing it. Archon shards is meant to last long, and be an almost close to evergreen system. But you can kit out a couple frames pretty fast and just work towards continuous improvement.

[(NSW)Greybones]

There’s a bit to unpack here, and a lot of questions raised. One that jumps out in particular is why do you need to do Eidolons so badly?

Has someone been telling you that you need to grind efficiently and in order to do that you need certain components?

[(PSN)FirmBizkit]

14 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

But what exactly are you chasing that the weeklies are such a big distraction? The circuit is the most time consuming one and that's on permanent rotation,sk there really is no need to rush if you don't feel like doing it. Archon shards is meant to last long, and be an almost close to evergreen system. But you can kit out a couple frames pretty fast and just work towards continuous improvement.

Yeah but it’s a bit absurd to have to plan something like circuit - a video game activity - up to 8 weeks in advance if you’re after a specific thing. I can barely keep track of my bills, nevermind things in a game.

5 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

There’s a bit to unpack here, and a lot of questions raised. One that jumps out in particular is why do you need to do Eidolons so badly?

Has someone been telling you that you need to grind efficiently and in order to do that you need certain components?

Well I need the arcanes and rank up materials and I need to master their mechanics so as to not be a burden to my teams. My learning runs have largely consisted of solo runs and they’ve been pretty time consuming. There isn’t a whole lot of handholding with Eidos and people don’t like it if you mess things up or are slow so I’m learning solo

Edited December 9, 2023 by (PSN)FirmBizkit

[(NSW)Greybones]

6 minutes ago, (PSN)FirmBizkit said:

Well I need the arcanes and I need to master their mechanics so as to not be a burden to my teams

Across most of the game players will typically be building to solo a whole multiplayer mission by building way beyond what the level of the mission requires; it’s one of the reasons I avoid Multiplayer as I’m not keen on being forced to stand around twiddling my thumbs.

Your team should typically have it under control, you just need to jump in and not die. So no pressure to contribute further redundant amounts of power, since they’re built for way beyond what the requirements of Eidolons are for the designed four player experience

 

Edited December 9, 2023 by (NSW)Greybones

[(NSW)Greybones]

If it helps, the time-limited stuff can actually become a boon; if a thing lasts a week, you do it once and that’s it covered and it forces you to move onto something else. Nightwave has a catchup system where it’ll cycle things back in once you complete something, but many things it asks for will typically happen just while playing and keeping the game from getting stale by jumping around different content and using different builds and loadouts we can make with the modless gear and anything we can modify it with (personally I find the game is  kind of at its worst when I was sticking to one build and a few bits of content all the time)

Plus you don’t necessarily need redundant amounts of power by game design; we’re not forced into building Meta and the game actually doesn’t have a lot to do if we did, which turns the chase of the Meta into a personal goal that you don’t need to chase if you don’t want to.

A lot of the game is about options and how we combine them for the content we’re doing, so you’re only missing out on alternative building options if you’ve already got what it takes to complete a node at least once in a fairly comfortable manner (which doesn’t necessarily mean insta-killing everything, mind you), and if you’re particularly exploratory you may get enough out of what you’ve currently got to the point that FOMO power is diminished and the game ends up dropping a lot of new options into your lap when you’re not even looking for it, furthering more combinations.

Which would be good because some of these timers definitely seem like they’re aimed at retaining players who rush through everything and then complain that there’s nothing to do, and chasing that mentality puts them on a direct crash course with not only timers designed to stop or slow them down, but also incidental timers that aren’t meant to be a problem

Edited December 9, 2023 by (NSW)Greybones

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

Since this was framed as a feedback thread, I don't find anything disagreeable here (not that I probably would even if it wasn't framed that way). That being said, I did want to leave some unsolicited advice/suggestions, not that any of this is intended to counter anything you said either, or justify anything in the game either. More so I think what a lot of what you wrote can be very relatable to many. 

Video games are primarily designed as a form of entertainment, but they can get a bit more blurry because of a few variables, that have to do with each of our respective lives, personalities, how we approach video games. Since like other forms of entertainment, what games can provide, can be more than just entertainment, and that comes with positives and negatives. 

I bring this up, because it can frame how a lot of us discuss video games, and how sometimes we can miscommunicate or misunderstand each other, but that can even apply to ourselves as well as others. Sometimes there can be obvious, accurate and valid assessments, or conclusions, to be made. Like about taking a break, or only doing what you want to do in the game, and so on. Which I think is good advice, and I have given it before, but... well sometimes it can fall short for some, because as individuals, there are just more variables that complicate how we might feel. Like usually there is some sort of tension, and we have conflicting feelings, and a more simple course of action isn't necessarily addressing that conflict or tension. Like a really obvious example, is the inner conflict between wanting a certain reward or outcome, and the effort we might need to put out to get there... but it can get a little more complicated depending on the person, because both of those ideas can fluctuate and affect each other... Some days effort requirements can feel light, other days it can feel heavy, and we can't always know how we might feel. Which in turn can cause frustration. 

So... a persons ability to deal with that frustration can become relevant, and some people can know themselves better than others. Some peoples solutions for such problems will also differ. This is where sort of learning and knowing yourself can become a valuable tool. Personally? I am a "take a break" type person. I tend to intuitively recognise when I might burn out, what I value more short term, long term, and coming up with ways to avoid getting frustrated, overwhelmed, feeling regret, feeling conflicted or having tension with the games I play. It probably wouldn't translate to all others though, its more about myself knowing myself. 

With out that preamble out of the way, I am generally a big advocate that all of us, actually spend some conscious time and effort into thinking about what we want from the games we play, why we play them, and what we get out of them, and whether they are good for us, short term and long term. Like especially live service games, and games that have FTP models, subscriptions, and other such commitments. Games can be fun and simple, but like... you don't really want to just start playing games mindlessly, out of boredom without any introspection, because many games, because of business reasons, can be predatory, addicted, and prey on you. You can protect yourself by just taking some time to think and evaluate your priorities. Develop some perspective. 

Its also worth considering that what you find negative, and positive can also often flip depending on how you approach them as well. I didn't start Warframe in 2013, and when I did join, there was a lot to "catch up on" but that was also a bit exciting for me, intriguing. Some aspects were frustrating, but usually the good outweighed the bad for me. Sometimes even the bad ended up turning into a positive, like some game modes I disliked, I ended up liking. Sometimes the same things that cause pressure, are a surplus of activities for you if you feel like you want stuff to do. Its not just tough for a game to balance but individuals as well. 

For example I was pretty excited for second generation of Incarnons, and I was also fortunate enough to actually enjoy Circuit. That being said, there were some weeks, I was just too busy, and the rewards weren't that compelling. It would mean I would have to wait potentially months to return but ehhh. Then again, sometimes one of those former Incarnons that didn't seem that interesting, or at least enough to motivate me, become motivation enough, like this week, where I will finally get two that I was missing, nearly having got all of them. 

One of the things I liked about Warframe for years, was that it always felt like I had something to do, and rather than being a source of negative pressure, it was a highlight and positive for me. Granted, for myself, Warframe is the only game I play like this... If I was playing multiple games like that, I probably would be overwhelmed and dislike certain aspects more... (which is also why I don't play a lot of games like this...). Again though just to reemphasise, I am just talking about myself and how I engage with such games and knowing my own preferences. I even keep little notebooks I like to fill with Warframe info, what stuff I am excited for, my in game priorities, and all that services keeping the game fun, avoiding pressure, avoiding burn out, helping me stay focused on what I enjoy and avoid the parts I dislike (or getting them done in a way I find less irritating so I can enjoy the parts I enjoy better). For someone else, it might mean using certain apps, because I know there are a few that help out with your profile, and relics and items you might be missing etc, there are small individuals things any of us can do, that might best accommodate our personality and frustrations and alleviate the bad, and highlight the good. Finding such tricks that are exactly made for ourselves, is a really good way to help us enjoy stuff more (and its not just a video game thing either, can be good for other things, such as work, exercise, creative hobbies, school, mental health). 

Games like Warframe often do change to try and be more accommodating and attractive to players, just usually its broadly done. Which often means, we may still fall out of that ideal spot, and the game will still potentially make us feel burned out, or in conflict with ourselves, so then best we can do, is sort of find our own ways to accomodate how we feel about stuff and in turn make decisions about how we engage in the game. 

TL;DR version, the more you can practice thinking about why you enjoy games and what you want to get out of them, the better you can create strategies to go about getting the best parts of what you enjoy about games, whilst minimising or finding ways to minimise the less ideal parts. Or knowing when and how to balance stuff when stuff begins to unravel, build up pressure, turn negative etc. Not everyone is the same, so finding the best solutions for yourself can be better, especially as games themselves can't always be so tailor made to the individual, since they have to service large quantities of people and balance for that. 

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

15 hours ago, (PSN)FirmBizkit said:

Well I need the arcanes and rank up materials and I need to master their mechanics so as to not be a burden to my teams. My learning runs have largely consisted of solo runs and they’ve been pretty time consuming. There isn’t a whole lot of handholding with Eidos and people don’t like it if you mess things up or are slow so I’m learning solo

 

If you'd like, I can solo Tridolons, but I am definitely more on the chill and laid back side of doing Eidolons. I also enjoy helping players slowly learn how to do Eidolons, but my priority is usually that we don't get better or faster, but they they enjoy themselves. Since I believe when players enjoy themselves and don't feel any pressure to rush, they tend to learn better, and getting faster is a natural consequence of just doing the Eidolons anyway. People get better at stuff when they enjoy it. Crazy concept right? 

So I use to PUB a lot to help randoms, and sometimes also recruit to look for newer players, and also... do a lot of soloing now and then, but my main point here, is if you want to do Eidolons with some people who are chill, but might make the experience of Tridolons more fun and probably faster, we can team up if you'd like. 

That also being said, Whispers in the Wall is coming out with a new feature that sounds like it will let you trade in unwanted Arcanes to take a chance of buying Arcanes in packs from different areas of the game, just its going to be RNG and weighted by rarity. So in theory this could be a way to get a few Eidolon Arcanes easier without doing them, as long as you have a decent amount of unwanted Arcanes from elsewhere (like from Acolytes). Though, its unlikely you could like... get a full set of Arcane Energise that easy this way too. Could still be useful to some either way. (I'll be able to get some of those Deimos Arcanes I put off collecting...)

[Xzorn]

Not a fan of the weekly limit thing either. Wasn't a fan of Umbra Forma when it was turned into bait grind either.

Far as getting burned out. That's normal. I've played off and on for 10 years. Fact is, they just don't make content that's lasting. It always has a dead end instead of allowing it to soft cap or extend into the other parts of the game. It's a lot of self contained biomes. Though I have to say Zaramin is a little closer to being "Integrated". Khal was certainly a highlight for the first few weeks. It's also cool you can repeat the mission if you're short on a shard but it's only like 4 missions sadly.

I had a ton of fun with melee Drifter in Durviri. Least until I realized the Decree system. Yea, I did 2 normal and 3 Steel Path without them. It was very fun.

I just came back after 5 years and I caught up in about a month. Mostly. I need some random meh weapons, Caliban and Citrine. Finished all content grinds.
I used about 65 Forma, 40 Catalyst and 30 Reactors. I'm kinda at that point again where I spend hours farming a weapon I probably won't use.

I'm certainly not a casual player by any means but after 6 weeks I feel like I'm now just gated by weeklies.
There's certainly extra cool factor going on with new music and activities/quests but also much less theory crafting and complexity.

[EverdarkRaven]

I'm coming back from a year and a half break from the game. The good thing about Warframe is that while things change, a lot remains the same. It feels like I only missed a few things and it has been easy to pick things back up and get back to it. This is a game, if it's not fun, take a break. Burn out is a real. 

[BowserNC]

On 2023-12-09 at 8:18 PM, Circle_of_Psi said:

It happens to even the best of us, take a break, the game won't go anywhere, trust me when you come back, you'll feel like you've never played WF before and then die like an idiot because you played another game and you forget how to play xD. 

me trying to bullet jump in Minecraft.................................

Edited December 10, 2023 by BowserNC

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

On 2023-12-09 at 9:53 AM, (PSN)FirmBizkit said:

Not complaining just want to leave some feedback. As a “relatively new player” everything has been super good but I’m finding the last two weeks I’m starting to burn out pretty hard. I went incredibly hard for 3 months but the last two weeks I’ve had little motivation to actually play (this could be general life or Warframe. I’ve been taking the time to explore some single player games I’ve had on backlog).

Being that I also largely only play live service / MMO games as well they all kind of compound on eachother with a lot of the same issues 😂 So a lot of my “play cycles” typically last 3-6 months switching between games.

What seems to be discouraging me is time limited content like Archon Hunts and Circuit, making me feel very overwhelmed and pressured to play or miss out. It’s making it really hard to just explore what I want without feeling bad about it. Credits and endo have been a reasonable struggle to get motivated to finish maxing out some of my mods. Index is really boring. I’ve discovered endless relics can be a decent source of credits but again, overwhelmed with time limited content that’s been making me not want to.

Circuit is really fun once you get into it but I don’t like that it takes longer than archon hunts to complete and “getting into it” usually requires a group that is going to stick around for a while which doesn’t always happen. Endless missions in general are my favourite but it is hard getting people to stay for an hour in matchmaking 

Because of all of this I’ve also found it pretty hard to get into Eidolons. Which is something I absolutely need to do but they’re a pretty massive undertaking to fully learn and master mechanically and not be a burden to your team. Theyre also time sensitive content - but on a different schedule.

I also found out the other day, because of all this I actually missed Torid Incarnon about 2 weeks ago and I’m pretty disappointed about that. I thought I did it.

I think just over all in general I’m not really getting along with a lot of the “time gates”. Syndicate standing, certain bounties, archon hunts, circuit, nightwave These things are all really good and the checklist is nice but it’s really a bit overwhelming with so many years of it ahead of me. I sort of feel like the pacing of it is more in line with a veteran players progression with having a lot of that stuff behind them.

I definitely wouldn’t want these things to go away though or be skipped and I DO NOT support the “story skip” that is planned.  I also do like that there is literally years of content that is relevant for me to do. Just lessened to a degree maybe with less FOMO. Something like a targeted loot system for archon shards would alleviate the fomo a lot. This already kind of exists with the Tau shards pity system - but that again I feel is more targeted towards veterans. I feel like chippers shop should serve this purpose but its shard is also RNG and the cost of it really makes acquiring the other items like the ephemera and blueprints a struggle. Especially deciding between deciding to purchase a shard or a blueprint/mod instead. Because of this, the shard in chippers shop acts more like just a “bonus” shard.

Circuits grind should be lessened a bit and let you pick what ever you want for incarnons. The time gate on its own isn’t too bad, but the rotation along with the time gate is what makes it bad. It takes about 2 hours to clear steel path with a solid team - but that then leaves normal mode still as well which is something I also still need. With just matchmaking it seems like about a good 4-5 hours to do both and that’s a lot for a weekly task. If I wasn’t a no life nerd and had a job this would be an incredible undertaking for the average player in my position
 

Then on top of all of this I’ve also got time limited “events”. I’m pretty disappointed I couldn’t do a lot of plague star, so I missed out on a ton of formas.

Theres just a LOT of things asking me to do something “right now” or miss out on it and it’s pretty overwhelming and taking away from other actual non-time limited content that I want to do like relics or Railjack

These are great points and I used to feel that way years ago. During a mission, I had a great conversation with a vet who told me at that time to "never think of this game as needing to do. Warframe is designed as a long term game that usually always circle back to everything it offers but NEVER offers anything that is mandatory". So far, he was absolutely correct and that was 6 years ago. 

For context, I missed PlagueStar, many of the archon hunts and my work schedule has kept me away from SP Circuit most of this fall, and I don't feel any FOMO at all. The modes the game offers aren't going anywhere anytime soon, so I'm enjoying the fact I can ease out and back in at anytime. 

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

Yeah sadly Warframe has been moving away from intrinsic motivation for a while now, now it's almost entirely FOMO inducing Extrinsic Motivation , basically weekly chore lists and pushing you to play very specific content over and over again. As as result I burn out on the new stuff super quick and end up not feeling like playing at all, not setting my own goals anymore, and essentially only playing the minimum amount of obligatory content each week to hit my extrinsic goals... Really bad for sustainability imho.

I just miss the feeling of logging in and going "Hmm, what do I feel like playing today ? Will I put formas on that weapon that look fun, will I go back and play some Raijack because it's fun and I feel like it... But nah, nowadays, you do your weekly archon / kahl, your SP circuit run, your nightwave chores, then you log off not to return for the entire rest of the week. Not a good feeling.

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by (PSN)Stealth_Cobra

[ZephyrExia]

On 2023-12-10 at 7:27 AM, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

I'll just parrot what others have been saying. If the game is starting to feel like a chore instead of fun, it's time to take a break. I guarantee you'll feel recharged when you return after a few months away.

I've not played actively for a while now, and when I log in I see all the stuff that is there to 'keep players engaged' and immediately log out again.

I like warframe, but personally don't like the high level content it has. I don't farm archon shards, don't fight Liches or Sisters, don't do the thing for incarnons, don't do steel path, or any of that sort of stuff because I don't find the combat fun at that level range.
I want some of the stuff in the current nightwave, but looking at how many levels there are, and how unfun some of the challenges are, makes me not even bother trying.

I like the story content, and will come back whenever new story is released, but after taking a break, I've noticed that all of the things I used to do because I enjoyed the game now feel tedious and unenjoyable. 

The risk of taking a break is that you might not ever fully come back, and while that is ok, it doesn't seem sustainable from a business viewpoint.

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

2 hours ago, ZephyrExia said:

I like warframe, but personally don't like the high level content it has. I don't farm archon shards, don't fight Liches or Sisters, don't do the thing for incarnons, don't do steel path, or any of that sort of stuff because I don't find the combat fun at that level range.

I'm not sure if you're under any peer pressure from friends trying to force you to engage in any of this content. But you really don't need to if you don't get any enjoyment out of it. Warframes with minimal builds are all perfectly capable of doing all non Steel Path content in the game. Plus with how long Nightwave seasons generally last and the recent changes that were made to weekly acts, you'll still easily be able to reach rank 30 if you take a casual approach to it.

Just relax and play the game how you want. Though in the event you still find the game tedious, it's probably time to put it down for good. 

[Sojufueled]

The circuit comes back around. Don't feel like you have to get it every week. 

[Dunkelheit]

Am 9.12.2023 um 18:53 schrieb (PSN)FirmBizkit:

I went incredibly hard for 3 months but the last two weeks I’ve had little motivation to actually play (this could be general life or Warframe.

This is your problem. We humans have the ability to put unbelievable amounts of energy for a short time into a topic, this being learning for an exam, Warframe grind or doing everyting for a girl that you want.

If we do not reach our goal in this "energy heavy" time though, we falter, it is only a question of time. Warframe has such huge amounts of contents, it is impossible to rush them. Warfame is a Marathon, not a Sprint. And if you start sprinting in a Marathon, you won't reach the end. Same goes for Warframe, you will burn out. And this is exactly what happens to you.