Being forced to use outdated or bottom-tier RNG equipment in new high level game modes is not "difficulty"

[Aerikx]

11 minutes ago, Kaiga said:

What is the difference between huge damage attenuation and an equally massive pool of health?

Do they not both require lengthy kill times and dump down DPS to defeat? 

How would you design a boss that doesn't have gigantic invuln phases to prevent being bowled over in a single burst?

Given that nerfing players would cause outrage I can't think of any other way.

And FYI, I wasn't complaining. I was just...shocked. for the longest time I had come to believe that I was one of very few exiles, banished to the depths of space for not hating Damage Attenuation.

13 minutes ago, Kaiga said:

If helldivers can figure how how to do this, while still keeping the few against many feel, then warframe certainly can.

Had to touch on this...

Helldivers is an extremely different game. Down to the core fundamentals. It is not fair to compare the two in that manner. 

[Aruquae]

39 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Fun fact: They can't. Or, rather, they won't.

Why not? Because of an update a long time ago called 'The Sword Alone'. In this update they committed to making sure that a player can complete any content in the game with only a Melee weapon equipped.

This is why enemies that already have clear weak-point optimisation in the way you're talking about (for example; Grineer Nox units that have a headshot weakpoint and massive DR on the rest of their body) die to Melee weapons just as fast as any other heavily-armoured enemy unit.

This is the unfortunate turn we’ve taken 

A shame, it could’ve been a good run for new content focusing on your aiming skills. 

[ECCHOSIERRA]

17 hours ago, Enxchiol said:

Yes, that is absolutely true, but you have to consider, no matter how complex your enemy AI or movement or mechanics are, none of it matters if enemies get killed within seconds of spawning and players can be literally invulnerable.

The unfortunate truth is, for any sort of challenge to be possible in Warframe, our power level has to be toned down one way or another. And seeing how most of the community starts pissing and S#&$ting itself when any sort of nerf is mentioned(remember the proposed Mirage changes just a bit ago?), randomized loadouts is unfortunately one of the very few ways DE can introduce any sort of challenge nowadays.

Its not a challenge, though. 

Enemy has X number of hitpoints. 

Any given weapon does Y amount of damage per second.

The only real variable is how long does it take to kill any given enemy. There's little to no skill involved if the difference between "good" DPS and "bad" DPS isnt based on anything other than "did the game randomly decide to give me access to a weapon that doesnt have base stats so bad that no amount of modding will make it good, or did it give me a good weapon". 

"Bullet sponges" arent a new concept in gaming. 

The "but muh balance argument" holds no water with me in circuit because even a trash weapon can *eventually* clap with enough overpowered decrees strapped to it. 

"This weapon does XYZ status and does extra damage based on XYX etc etc". 

Its just a matter of how annoying any given run is going to be.

 guess we'll see how deep archimedia goes.

The frame part of the equation isnt so bad because just about every frame can be made, at a minimum, reasonably survivable on their own. And while some frames are definitely "better" than others, we have few if any D tier "this frame is complete trash why would you use this ever" 's right now. 

But there are a *LOT* of trash weapons.

If anything this randomization fetish just feels like a cash grab.

since the dawn of time players could "reason with" the monetization strategy of forma and potatoes and exilus adaptors being things that cost platinum unless you get them via very limited sources, by focusing on items relevant to the player. "I dont care for (whatever) so i wont throw 5-7 forma + a potato + exilus adapter at it".

well guess what now you get "punished" if you dont do that. 

 

[NeDesitVirtus]

16 minutes ago, ECCHOSIERRA said:

"[S]ince the dawn of time players could "reason with" the monetization strategy of forma and potatoes and exilus adaptors being things that cost platinum unless you get them via very limited sources, by focusing on items relevant to the player. "I dont care for (whatever) so i wont throw 5-7 forma + a potato + exilus adapter at it".

[W]ell guess what now you get "punished" if you don't do that."

 

I guess it's about perspective isn't it?

I came back to the game with the launch of Duviri and had quite a a bit of content and quests to catch up on.

Up to then, I had probably 6-8 frames I had fully built and forma'd and about 30+ or so weapons that I'd use in rotation or for particular loadouts. The incarnon weapons were incentive enough to really work on other frames and weapons synergies I don't normally use but could be actually really good.

I have, for instance, a Convectrix and Exergis that can do incredible damage without decrees but have easily carried us to level 8000k in Duviri Steel Path Circuit. I've went quite far in Circuit with just a Saryn and a Tenet Livia, a Hydroid and Zakti, a Mag and Magistar. A Baruuk and Ether Dagger, and a Kuva Hind.

Of course it is always sweet to get a load out of your incarnon weapons and maybe one trash weapon. 

I appreciate Digital Extremes pushing my out of my comfort zone and stretching me a little. It's made me a better player. 

Likewise, I have paid more attention to Twitch drops, events such as Plague Star and plat farming for both boosters and forma, potatoes, and adapters. 

The game is grindy and yes the enemies can be trivial, so new modes that raise the bar on challenge are at least to me, fun. 

Normally, you'd not be punished for taking a Wisp and Torid to every single mission. 

And you'd not be punished for not selecting your own frame and load out for the new mode either, you'd just get less points towards rarer rewards which means running the mission more for the 5 rewards total per 2 netracel keys. 

I may not change your mind and that's okay. You have a right to your views and perspectives and those are also valid.

For me, it was simply more fun to work on new builds compelled, in large part, because I didn't want to be a carry in the new rouge-lite mode. The pay off has been worth it.

[Lord_Drod]

If you just want shards and don't care about the legendaries, will there be a point to maxing the difficulty?

[ECCHOSIERRA]

8 hours ago, Lord_Drod said:

If you just want shards and don't care about the legendaries, will there be a point to maxing the difficulty?

If i understand correctly, you can get more rewards per threshold of increasing the difficulty by adding whatever modifiers. 

 

To get *all* possible rewards including the legendary arcane, you need every single difficulty thing.

 

Presumably you could skip something and get the remainder of it. 

If recommended going for max rewards anyway, even if you dont want the legendary arcane because you can always sell/trade them.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

On 2024-03-05 at 12:41 AM, NeDesitVirtus said:

I guess it's about perspective isn't it?

I came back to the game with the launch of Duviri and had quite a a bit of content and quests to catch up on.

Up to then, I had probably 6-8 frames I had fully built and forma'd and about 30+ or so weapons that I'd use in rotation or for particular loadouts. The incarnon weapons were incentive enough to really work on other frames and weapons synergies I don't normally use but could be actually really good.

I have, for instance, a Convectrix and Exergis that can do incredible damage without decrees but have easily carried us to level 8000k in Duviri Steel Path Circuit. I've went quite far in Circuit with just a Saryn and a Tenet Livia, a Hydroid and Zakti, a Mag and Magistar. A Baruuk and Ether Dagger, and a Kuva Hind.

Of course it is always sweet to get a load out of your incarnon weapons and maybe one trash weapon. 

I appreciate Digital Extremes pushing my out of my comfort zone and stretching me a little. It's made me a better player. 

Likewise, I have paid more attention to Twitch drops, events such as Plague Star and plat farming for both boosters and forma, potatoes, and adapters. 

The game is grindy and yes the enemies can be trivial, so new modes that raise the bar on challenge are at least to me, fun. 

Normally, you'd not be punished for taking a Wisp and Torid to every single mission. 

And you'd not be punished for not selecting your own frame and load out for the new mode either, you'd just get less points towards rarer rewards which means running the mission more for the 5 rewards total per 2 netracel keys. 

I may not change your mind and that's okay. You have a right to your views and perspectives and those are also valid.

For me, it was simply more fun to work on new builds compelled, in large part, because I didn't want to be a carry in the new rouge-lite mode. The pay off has been worth it.

 

 

I agree 100%. Having changes of pace from the norms of Warframe is a really nice refresher. Having to use combinations that are outside of metas is exactly why I find myself always enjoying way more combinations than I would normally use. I've never been a meta follower, so maybe that's the reason, but to each their own. 

 

[schilds]

13 hours ago, Lord_Drod said:

If you just want shards and don't care about the legendaries, will there be a point to maxing the difficulty?

No. The top tier is guaranteed to be a legendary. You can/will get legendaries due to rng in the lower tier rewards anyway.

[Raikh]

On 2024-03-05 at 9:41 AM, NeDesitVirtus said:

And you'd not be punished for not selecting your own frame and load out for the new mode either, you'd just get less points towards rarer rewards which means running the mission more for the 5 rewards total per 2 netracel keys. 

As far as I've understood it you can't just run it multiple times to get more points cumulatively. If you want more points you have to toggle more things, so if you want all the rewards you have to toggle as many things as needed for that for a single run.

Depending on how it works in a group setting I guess you could get carried by having someone else pick whatever, while you toggle everything and then do another run vice versa, but thats not something I'd consider fun or engaging.

On 2024-03-05 at 9:41 AM, NeDesitVirtus said:

I appreciate Digital Extremes pushing my out of my comfort zone and stretching me a little. It's made me a better player. 

I've also had some good experiences exploring new things due to Circuit, but after playing Circuit for a whole while now I'd say the negatives of the RNG have outweighed the positives for me, more so on the side of random weapons and a bit less so on the side of random Frames. And I think Deep Archimedea will be worse due to a number of factors compared to Duviri on that end.

I think encouraging a diverse arsenal is perfectly fine and engaging. its mostly that I think full blown RNG on the entire arsenal is too much given just how many weapons there are and how horrible the balance between them across the board is. 

 

[Lord_Drod]

1 hour ago, schilds said:

No. The top tier is guaranteed to be a legendary. You can/will get legendaries due to rng in the lower tier rewards anyway.

That's what I figured.  I definitely don't want to prevent a chance for a tau shard to drop for a guaranteed legendary arcane drop instead.  I'm not in a rush to complete those. 

[Tukka]

From what I understand of how Deep Archimedea, I fully approve of the design decision DE is going in with it.

I'm not reading through the whole thread, so I am probably repeating some points, but:

You will not be forced to use the Stug, even if you enable all of the restrictions. You'll have a choice of three different secondary weapons.

And you don't necessarily need every component of your loadout to have carry potential. Often, you just need one carry weapon/warframe to get you over. Of course, it remains to be seen whether this will hold true in Deep Archimedea as it does in most other existing modes, since the combined effect of Deviations, Risk Variables, and other Personal Modifiers may limit the carry potential of some equipment. That's really my only concern, that some combinations of those effects could be pretty unfair and oppressive.

So, sure, they might overtune the challenge. If they do, that's something that they can and should address. But that is something that has to be evaluated after the mode releases.

In addition, unlike Duviri, you will have the time/opportunity to build up offered equipment to a more usable state, including potentially building for the unique conditions of the mode, particularly if you already own the equipment but haven't built it up yet. This does strongly favor more veteran players and players with a robust arsenal, but that is fine. It is okay for one game mode to offer an advantage towards getting moderately better rewards to people who have invested the most into the game.

And it will only be moderately better rewards. If most people who are capable of Netracells can achieve the 3rd reward fairly comfortably (as seems fairly likely), then they're only missing out on one roll on an enhanced Netracell loot roll, and an arcane worth about 50-90p (and probably less, since increased supply following the addition of the mode will drop the price of Melee Crescendo/Melee Duplicate). Considering that it's a weekly, not something that you can repetitively grind, that's not exactly a massive acceleration of one's progression.

Also, as far as I know, there is no word on this mode restricting use of operator mode, or companions, both of which can be built to be very strong, with decent carry potential just by themselves.

 

Edited March 16 by Tukka

[Arniox]

Agreed kindof... 

I'd say the way I play is rare. I multiple forma everything. Every weapon (and every variant including normal), every frame, every companion. And I update all my builds when meta changes a significant amount (like with sacrificial mods, or galvanised mods)

I started doing this long before circuit when it really wasn't needed. So when circuit came along, it turned out perfect for me. 

However, even with multiple formas on everything. There are still so many weapons that can not handle high level content. Some weapons, even with the best possible build, can't even handle lvl 60+ enemies. So while I think it's kindof cool there's a mission that really let's me stretch my legs with all my builds, I think it should have been limited to just the circuit. Where its realitively easy to "go next". I don't think it should have also been put onto a super high level, ultra endgame mission type that locks you in for a whole week. I think that's a cop out for "difficulty" 

[PollexMessier]

I love the randomness in circuit, because Decrees take an otherwise completely unusable weapon and turn it into a monster. which is exceptionally fun as it allows you to experience weapons that are otherwise unusable in a functional way. And it's just extremely fun when you get the 1/100 god setup and blitz everything like they're made of soap bubbles.

This new game mode just sounds like it's going to be agony. Unless they decide to make the mode slap one hell of a massive base-stat buff on weapons based on their riven disposition or something.

I love the idea of random loadouts when they're actually playable...

[Tukka]

11 hours ago, Arniox said:

However, even with multiple formas on everything. There are still so many weapons that can not handle high level content. Some weapons, even with the best possible build, can't even handle lvl 60+ enemies.

The majority of weapons now have a variant that is Steel Path viable, if you've built into it.

I realize overframe.gg shouldn't be taken as gospel, but for this quick and dirty assessment, I think it's adequate: go to the tier lists and start from the bottom up, and ask yourself how many of the weapons in the C-tier or below don't have a higher tier variant. It will end up as a pretty small number.

There are a handful that are just bad, sure, but with three weapons per category, you're almost certain to get offered something that has at least a passable variant.

And pretty much anything can handle level 60 enemies with proper modding, if not super efficiently. Granted, Deep Archimedea is going to be much higher level than that and will have other conditions which should make things substantially more difficult. I do have some concern that all of the stacking penalties will magnify the difficulties of running a lower-tier loadout, to an unreasonable degree in some cases.

But it is an endgame challenge. In the worst case, you'll be encouraged to form a set squad to manage the specific challenges of the mode for the week, which I think is okay given that the rewards you miss out on from not doing so are not anything ridiculous, and should not be that FOMO-inducing, particularly when the 5th DA reward is tradable. Most players capable of doing Netracells will likely be able to manage six out of eight of the rewards available from spending Netracell/DA keys. Locking 1 or 2 of 8 rewards behind a barrier that is only accessible to the top nth percentile of players, or those willing to expend high effort, I think is absolutely fine.

Quote

I think that's a cop out for "difficulty" 

I don't think it's a cop out given how the sheer power and myriad utility that's available to players when they have unfettered access to all builds. The design space is super constrained by this reality, so some hard limits on equipment selection are one of the few viable ways to reintroduce a substantial level of challenge. The other ways of creating challenge (like new modes that don't use traditional equipment loadouts at all, or a massive slate of nerfs) also tend to be unpopular.

Edited March 16 by Tukka

[ECCHOSIERRA]

7 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

I love the randomness in circuit, because Decrees take an otherwise completely unusable weapon and turn it into a monster. which is exceptionally fun as it allows you to experience weapons that are otherwise unusable in a functional way. And it's just extremely fun when you get the 1/100 god setup and blitz everything like they're made of soap bubbles.

This new game mode just sounds like it's going to be agony. Unless they decide to make the mode slap one hell of a massive base-stat buff on weapons based on their riven disposition or something.

I love the idea of random loadouts when they're actually playable...

While im personally not a fan of the randomizer in circuit, I can agree with this take. 

Even a "loaner build" trash weapon with enough decrees will at least be useable with enough decrees. Maybe not ideal. But useable. 

As far as I know there isnt gonna be any kind of buff system for weapons here.

 

The upside l, i suppose, is that you have time to forma/tweak your build unlike the circuit where youd only have a little time before the randomizer resets.

In normal gameplay, you could compensate for fodder weapons by using frames that boost damage and or strip defenses. 

But if the frames are randomized too we cant necessarily count on that. 

 

Im kinda anticipating a weird meta where its "look at your frame options, and prioritize whatever you can make to strip defense the hardest + not die". 

[NeDesitVirtus]

Agreed there are indeed some weapons that are without help, even with the beast rivens. The beautiful but near useless Ambassador immediately comes to mind. 

 

However, as one commenter alluded, having multiple forma on weapons and well built frames give you a tremendous advantage.

Recently we advanced to Tier 5 in SP Circuit with a two friends. I was running a negative efficiency Dagath and a 5 forma Hysterix Prime. Last week we went to level cap in Circuit with Baruuk and one decent primary and Mesa and a Tenno we were help get to his Tier 10. My only issue with Dagath was that I scrambled for some efficiency decrees after forgetting to adjust her build, and that her 3 was not working intermittently and having to use Madurai and Last Gasp to revive. 

Both frames I used are sharded and built for SP content. It's nearly always about how you adapt and build. 

Of course Deep Archimedean will be challenging and I welcome the opportunity to stretch and challenge my ability to innovate and coordinate with other players. 

So much of the content becomes trivialized because everyone is using wisp, revenant, or some other cheese frame and a Torid. 

Edited March 16 by NeDesitVirtus
clarity

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

18 hours ago, Arniox said:

However, even with multiple formas on everything. There are still so many weapons that can not handle high level content. Some weapons, even with the best possible build, can't even handle lvl 60+ enemies.

I need to locate these non-mk1 (and stug) weapons then! I've used non rivened kunai in SP before as a clan joke...and it wrecked corpus units and the infested. Please give us a list of these weapons that can't handle level 60 enemies. I, honestly, can't find them.

[Raikh]

13 hours ago, ECCHOSIERRA said:

In normal gameplay, you could compensate for fodder weapons by using frames that boost damage and or strip defenses. 

But if the frames are randomized too we cant necessarily count on that. 

Thats why I'm hoping that they leave us to pick atleast a single thing freely for max rewards. With just one thing to pick freely you can salvage most scenarios or round out a loadout to have a reasonably good experience consistently. If its all fixed w/o the help of things like decrees and probably even more modifiers that make things harder the RNG can swing way too much into either direction. And that may just invite not so great ways to interact with the system or make people not wanna interact with it in the first place.

 

 

[Binket_]

I'll admit, this upcoming mode?

I just feel good about random loadouts because 99% of the time, I've gotten good enough to make use of everything in SOME way.
So I can spite all those casual goblins who clamor to the nearest "meta weapon" without a single thought in the journeyed process.
Believe me, I have a lot of vindictive grudges built up for those brainless things. So many problems of today brought about by THEIR ignorance...

... but I do know what you're talking about and I fully agree that isn't a good way to go about it.

 

Randomizing loadouts in merely a short-termed way to get players to "git gud", but it's a rather ineffective as shown by the Circuit.
I believed the Circuit would be good IF they kept it rewardingly viable (and reasonable) to run consistently.
Unfortunately, they not only shot themselves in the foot with Jackal but also refuse to add anything worthwhile to it.

Once Duviri ran it's course, the entire thing got dropped. As per the usual.
I'm not surprised in the slightest at that-- this is not a new thing by any means.
It IS however disappointing and that only continues to escalate with DE's bouncing of hyperfixations.

 

What we REALLY need is more enemy variety. More MEANINGFUL variety that is.
I don't mind an enemy being tanky if there is a fun way to take it out or if it can be turned in my favor.

Everyone seems to dislike Nullifiers, but I less blame that to their bubble disabling abilities and more how annoying it is to disable said bubble.
A small drone that must be hit with precise hitscan shot for it to fully go away?
That's already a pretty niche selection of weapons, but it's only if you can get a clear shot.
If it's a projectile or simply not accurate enough? You can't hit. Yeah, you could rapid fire shoot it until it goes away-- but that's not exactly much better of a solution.
That's not even factoring in the REST of the enemies nearby either, of which can be varying degrees of lethality.

You can't fix the problems presented by Nullifiers without first addressing the core issue. Hit detection.
Since projectile hit detection can be quite shoddy for hitting specific parts of an enemy?
Enemies that require specialized spots can often become more of a headache than interesting.

 

I could go on and on about this, but I feel this is too long for the average reader as is.
All I hope is that this mode at least learns from where the Circuit failed.
^{I doubt it will, given DE's track record-- but hey, we all know the old story of Pandora's Box... hope was all we have left.}

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

4 hours ago, Raikh said:

Thats why I'm hoping that they leave us to pick atleast a single thing freely for max rewards. With just one thing to pick freely you can salvage most scenarios or round out a loadout to have a reasonably good experience consistently. If its all fixed w/o the help of things like decrees and probably even more modifiers that make things harder the RNG can swing way too much into either direction. And that may just invite not so great ways to interact with the system or make people not wanna interact with it in the first place.

 

 

I hope they don't though. Without a crutch, the system would allow us to work together in order to make up for any shortcomings. What's cool about that is each player has their favorites, meaning what one may consider trash (because they most likely just don't like the weapon/frame), another player may excel with them. 

More importantly, I really don't want these rewards to be obtained so dang simply and quickly. We already have the cheese path for about 99% of everything already. Let's allow a game mode to have a level of elusiveness, some frustration and even some luck to be factors in an endgame mode. At the most, we can see potential meme runs land in a skilled player's hands and create some hella cool memories. IMO, of course.

[Raikh]

52 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

I hope they don't though. Without a crutch, the system would allow us to work together in order to make up for any shortcomings. What's cool about that is each player has their favorites, meaning what one may consider trash (because they most likely just don't like the weapon/frame), another player may excel with them. 

Sounds awfully romanticized to me. With pure RNG you have no guarantee that a given squad has complimenting pieces or that someone just doesn't take a Carry role while the others struggle to contribute meaningfully by comparison. I'd also heavily disagree that being able to pick 1 out 4 slots from your loadout freely a crutch. Its RNG in an extremely unbalanced game, nothing else. Any difficulty resulting from this has no integrity whatsoever to begin with.

1 hour ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

More importantly, I really don't want these rewards to be obtained so dang simply and quickly. We already have the cheese path for about 99% of everything already. Let's allow a game mode to have a level of elusiveness, some frustration and even some luck to be factors in an endgame mode. At the most, we can see potential meme runs land in a skilled player's hands and create some hella cool memories. IMO, of course.

Its not like the system in place stops cheese in any shape or form. You just need a single player with an according Frame or sometimes weapon and all that illusory challenge is gone. Its a game of luck moreso than skill if the RNG loadout is the only thing creating a challenge.
And if toggles and rewards are individually picked per player you can have one pick nothing, get the desired loadout and carry someone else through the mission who has toggled everything. After that do it vice versa, now all players involved have all rewards. So there is a good chance its predestined for cheese anyway, just not a very fun one.
And if you give players a chance to counteract extremely bad RNG you may motivate them more to give it an honest shot.

I get where you are coming from in terms of the experience you are hoping to get and I'm in no way opposed to that. I just want that to come from a more genuine challenge and I do not believe RNG can take the place of game balance to create that.

 

[SneakyErvin]

13 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

I hope they don't though. Without a crutch, the system would allow us to work together in order to make up for any shortcomings. What's cool about that is each player has their favorites, meaning what one may consider trash (because they most likely just don't like the weapon/frame), another player may excel with them. 

That assumes players would want to have to engage with other players. And since multiplayer and matchmaking is a hot turd in this game, more so after crossplay I personally want to avoid others as much as possible. "Forced" multiplayer when they dont provide dedicated servers is a big no-no for me.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

That assumes players would want to have to engage with other players. And since multiplayer and matchmaking is a hot turd in this game, more so after crossplay I personally want to avoid others as much as possible. "Forced" multiplayer when they dont provide dedicated servers is a big no-no for me.

Both you and @Raikh raise good points but it all lines up with what makes up some of the endgame elements. "Forced" co-op happens in raids too, but, luckily, Warframe always allows solo to work. It should be a lot harder though, similar to when Railjack first came out. That supports the overall satisfaction of success.The nicer picture is that you don't have to just play with any ole randoms. Recruiting does work and shouldn't be shun away so easily. 

in regards to having an even larger motivation to take on the new system, I don't necessarily disagree, but I think we should give the first edition a shot first. 

[_Anise_]

Being forced to use outdated or bottom-tier RNG equipment in new high level game modes is not "difficulty"

you know what else it's not ? FUN  not remotely, not in the slightest! if I feel like playing floaty fast I will play wisp, if I feel in the mood for a lazy no brain tank I will probhably play nezha

this random loadout garbage has to stop, it probably also artificially inflates warframe usage stats because some people will just be whatever and play an outdated 0.4% played frame no one cares about

Edited March 17 by _Anise_

[Kaiga]

On 2024-03-04 at 10:41 PM, NeDesitVirtus said:

I've went quite far in Circuit with just a Saryn and a Tenet Livia, a Hydroid and Zakti, a Mag and Magistar. A Baruuk and Ether Dagger, and a Kuva Hind.

That is true, but something important to remember about this new mode is that there are no Decrees to bail out otherwise bad rolls like in the Circuit.

The decrees are doing most of the work in letting you use whatever you happen to pick against high level mobs, and there will be none of that, the choices locked for a week, and reward losses for not maximizing research value.

That seems unnecessarily prohibitive for what they want flagship endgame content to be.