Revenant is too much of a crutch

[CrownOfShadows]

1 minute ago, SDGDen said:

imho, they need to remove the "1 second full invulnerability" from mesmer skin, maybe give it more charges to compensate or give it a relatively high maximum cap of charges since his other abilities can restore charges.

the biggest issue is that thralls will usually instant-die due to teammates, fix that and his kit should already work *a lot* better

I can agree with some of this but not all. While giving his thralls fully ally status (invulnerability to tenno attacks) might help him significantly, I also don't think it would solve the central issues surrounding him. He'd still be overall useless.

3 minutes ago, SDGDen said:

if you're looking for a game where you can actually enjoy the gameplay on public missions, you should go somewhere else.

play solo or quit and go play something else.

yeah... please stop with this. I never want to see this in the forums again honestly, it's so lazy. YOU go play something else. ALL Revenant players go play something else. Why should I have to quit? YOU QUIT. Or actually how about nobody quits and we square up to the actual problem? As mentioned before, I actually play solo quite a bit, I'd estimate maybe 60%-90% of the time (largely because of similar issues), but when I do play co-op (honestly my preferred experience) should this be the default experience? When new players or even average players jump into a mission, should this be the default experience? Is this what WF is about??? Are we supposed to be cool with this? This is about baselines and the overall community ... not about my personal play. I could play solo the rest of my days and this would still be a legitimate problem. Imagine a new player using something, anything, any frame you like, just trying to cross off SP nodes, and when they do get players in their missions they are always Revenant. Is it fail-mission worthy? NO (except for maybe interception). But does it make the non-Revenant player 90-100% responsible for the mission's success? Yup. And that's lame. Again, this isn't necessarily the fault of the Revenant player, but rather a failure of his kit to be engaging while also being immortal.

7 minutes ago, SDGDen said:

yes revenant is a crutch, but he's far from the only one.

As previously detailed, yes he's a crutch, but unlike other "cheese" frames he requires little to no upkeep and enjoys total immortality as a result. Can a Loki afk on top of the defense objective? Absolutely. Is Loki immortal? No. Do I think Loki is well balanced? Not particularly, no, (I'd introduce anti-invisibility mechanics into the game personally). Is he better balanced than Revenant? Absolutely, YES.

 

[Aldain]

18 minutes ago, (XBOX)Timidobserver said:

I don't really care since he doesn't do anything annoying like Limbo, Wisp, Nova, etc. I'm happy to just ignore revenants that I get grouped with. 

+1 to the "Wisp is annoying" score.

Especially in defense missions where they toss down a bunch of shock motes and spawn lock everything, thus making the mission take longer for no reason.

[SDGDen]

15 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

yeah... please stop with this. I never want to see this in the forums again honestly, it's so lazy. YOU go play something else. ALL Revenant players go play something else. Why should I have to quit? YOU QUIT. Or actually how about nobody quits and we square up to the actual problem?

hey, i don't like the situation either. fact is just: the people who even consider it a problem are only a small chunk of the playerbase. even if they "squared up to the actual problem" there are plenty more players "squaring up" against ANY form of nerf. when saryn got nerfed DE received actual death threats, and it hasnt really gotten any better.

17 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

should this be the default experience? When new players or even average players jump into a mission, should this be the default experience? Is this what WF is about???

should it? no. absolutely not.

but is it right now? YES. absolutely. this is what warframe is now.

17 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Are we supposed to be cool with this?

most people *are* cool with this.

just look at all the replies you've received. they're mostly complacent with the current situation.

18 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

This is about baselines and the overall community ... not about my personal play. I could play solo the rest of my days and this would still be a legitimate problem. Imagine a new player using something, anything, any frame you like, just trying to cross off SP nodes, and when they do get players in their missions they are always Revenant.

im well aware of that, but the overal community doesnt understand the idea of "PVE games still need balance". you're yelling at a brick wall when you're arguing that nerfs are good. also, you're kinda preaching to the choir here. i've been a massive advocate for sweeping game-wide nerfs to fix these kinds of issues.

20 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

(I'd introduce anti-invisibility mechanics into the game personally)

there already are a fair few anti-invis mechanics nowadays, some enemies can even bypass invis in that they still see you, and there's a lot more AOE-based enemies now than there used to be when loki was meta.

 

[CrownOfShadows]

Just now, Aldain said:

+1 to the "Wisp is annoying" score.

Especially in defense missions where they toss down a bunch of shock motes and spawn lock everything, thus making the mission take longer for no reason.

Listen, in low-level content I can agree with all of this. Who cares? Be Revenant, be Mesa, be Equinox - completely shut down Helene, spawn-massacre them - or be Loki and just afk, or be be anything you want - you're only there for the affinity who cares, everyone just has to deal with that bs. (it's honestly not great, but it's whatever, people can be carried or carry, everyone kinda rolls with it and exits as their patience dictates).

But in higher content where it's important that all members are contributing it becomes a serious problem.

Like if you're not doing something then wtf are you doing here? At least shoot something.

Just leeching? Uh, not cool. Not cool at all.

(you could make this same argument for the regular starchart, which is perfectly fair, but players have to start somewhere, so there has to be a certain level of forgiveness somewhere in the progression, which is why I'm not up in arms about early game balance - *but just play regular Helene and see what I mean, it's not that fun)

[CrownOfShadows]

Just now, SDGDen said:

most people *are* cool with this.

just look at all the replies you've received. they're mostly complacent with the current situation.

It's disgusting. But understandable. The masses are unfortunately a poor metric for fairness, they only want what's best for themselves... which is also understandable. (also we're only a few hours in haha, maybe some more seasoned minds will awake and offer their perspective in the hours to come, one can hope)

Just now, SDGDen said:

there already are a fair few anti-invis mechanics nowadays, some enemies can even bypass invis in that they still see you, and there's a lot more AOE-based enemies now than there used to be when loki was meta.

I actually was unaware of this, ty, I'll look into it.

[SDGDen]

1 minute ago, CrownOfShadows said:

It's disgusting. But understandable. The masses are unfortunately a poor metric for fairness, they only want what's best for themselves... which is also understandable. (also we're only a few hours in haha, maybe some more seasoned minds will awake and offer their perspective in the hours to come, one can hope)

this amount of powercreep only happened in the first place because DE allows community sentiment to steer the ship. a while ago i even got the chance to ask the devs what they thought about the balance VS power fantasy dilemma and according to them, power fantasy is still more important to them than balancing the game.

 

[AntifreezeUnder0]

3 hours ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Like maybe that's exactly the problem? If nobody else kills anything ( or does ANYTHING) then somebody HAS to? Or else the mission fails. Maybe that's the ENTIRE POINT....

Like what happens when you afk? The rest of the team "kills everything"? Hello?

Like plz, be useful at least. I don't think being immortal for free is a great design choice, but at least be useful?!?? Are you trying to say 'nah, f*ck that, we don't need to be useful'?

You mis understod, i talk about 1 meta slave who just runs ahead kills everything asap they appear then acts as he someone above everyone else, althought he was the 1 ruining experience of other 3 simply because they either did not yet progressed so far to access all the stuff needed to get meta minmax build, or simply enjoy different non -meta braindead plays.

Your entire outcry is about frames being able to outperform others with abilities, or if not they should do better than you with loadouts which is simply copy paste, and doenst contribute to variety gameplay, simpe same old mechanic abuse, and race to see who gets to abuse said mechanics faster or more efficient

In the end, doest matter who kills or who dont, if as squad mission is succesful its a good thing, squad people who get to enjoy walking simulators because of meta slaves , get loot and meta slave get to boast he is great at copy pasting same build on top broken weapon , taking away that weapon he also be doing nothing, and other than being blind meta follower does not contribute to other pleasant experience in squad endurance runs.

If you telling me using  that with stug(example) you out killed people with incarnons, everytime you had this ''carry'' issue, then its different talk,  And fix is still recruit/friend or clan squad. But why bother , no?

On the other hand if one formed squad with each member doing specific thing, then its always 1 is the dps, other buffs and take care of objective , but in the end meta enabled and keeps semi afk, macro play active, which still doesnt contribute to variety play, nor pleasant co-op experience for some. But atleast show how busted builds can get.

Then again having some people crying that randos at public matchmaking doesnt bend to ones will is also old problem cause they too lazy to form good squad with tools given by game avoiding any useless drama. 

 

 

 

[CrownOfShadows]

17 minutes ago, AntifreezeUnder0 said:

Your entire outcry is about frames being able to outperform others with abilities, or if not they should do better than you with loadouts which is simply copy paste, and doenst contribute to variety gameplay, simpe same old mechanic abuse, and race to see who gets to abuse said mechanics faster or more efficient

Not exactly. My entire outcry is that Revenant can out-survive anyone without doing anything for the team in return, much less having any appreciable downside or vulnerability of his own. If he was immortal but at a cost, or if he was immortal but did a lot for the team at the same time - ok that's fine, I don't think immortality is a great game mechanic but I can roll with that, at least there's a counterpoint.

Now you can argue this against something like current Inaros, who also does nothing for the team. That's fair, but are there 2-3 Inarosi in your squad sitting there doing nothing? No. And the fundamental reason behind that is because they are not immortal - they (currently) have a drawback - they will die by just sitting there (in high content). So even though their (current) kit sucks and they are doing nothing for the team, they still must be active to avoid death (depending on level ofc, at lower levels they most certainly can afk, and so can pretty much any frame tbh). It's just that Revenant can sit there and do nothing and not be punished OR praised for it. He does nothing. and that's being abused.

23 minutes ago, AntifreezeUnder0 said:

In the end, doest matter who kills or who dont, if as squad mission is succesful its a good thing

This is not really true. People put up with a lot of shenanigans in good spirits, but there's a point where it becomes not funny anymore. I submit Revenant has crossed that point. People DO care about their team's contributions, people DO care if their team is afk.

25 minutes ago, AntifreezeUnder0 said:

Then again having some people crying that randos at public matchmaking doesnt bend to ones will is also old problem cause they too lazy to form good squad with tools given by game avoiding any useless drama.

The 'just use recruit chat' argument is just as much a dead horse as the 'just stop playing the game' 'just play solo' bs, plz don't ever use this on the forums again, it does nothing to address the actual issue, and it never has in the whole history of the forums, I'm so tired of it... honestly.

[AntifreezeUnder0]

50 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

The 'just use recruit chat' argument is just as much a dead horse as the 'just stop playing the game' 'just play solo' bs, plz don't ever use this on the forums again, it does nothing to address the actual issue, and it never has in the whole history of the forums, I'm so tired of it... honestly.

But its not dead horse if one is too lazy or find excuses to not seek and form squad for specific purpose in before to avoid any unneeded shenanigans.

You dont go in public matchmaking thinking everyone is top notch player and can mind read or have meta build and its just become competition who meta more.

You going into random public , shows you accept all the shenanigans what follow and dont get to complain, unless its real afk , and then just report.

52 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

This is not really true. People put up with a lot of shenanigans in good spirits, but there's a point where it becomes not funny anymore. I submit Revenant has crossed that point. People DO care about their team's contributions, people DO care if their team is afk.

It just matter of missions, and contribution only are at matter when , squad which is made before have someone not fullfiling the role one was supposed to take.

There are many braindead frames so to speak, and every meta just revoles arround if i press 1 button once in a while i survive and do op dmg with already op weapons.

54 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Revenant can sit there and do nothing and not be punished OR praised for it. He does nothing. and that's being abused.

I mean every abuse magic shiel restore invincibility and its not mentioned, now even overguard gating... now thats some bs mechanic. Contributes barely anything to squad as whole,  and for them squad is needed only to increase mob density.

 

Game itself in squad play is just race between 4 solo capable people to see which kills faster or deals more dmg.

I also argue one running arround map killing enemies, leaving objective alone with useles ''revenant, or any other frame in ones view who is useless'', while that useless frame do directly protect objective as it needed, while other wanders arround away from objective.

But that still is fixable is one is not lazy to form squad before, but why do that when can always come on forums complain random people doesnt read minds and bend to ones will, saying if they dont perfrom this or that they are useless and dont contribute. Its You problem, and your problem alone.

[Voltage]

Revenant is more of a symptom and not a problem. The reason people flock to Revenant as an option is a much larger issue regarding how content has been designed. When we first got Wukong and he had old Defy (functional Mesmer Skin), he was essentially limited to Survival. Although he was unkillable, not offering a team role made him useless in teams because of what players needed from squad mates in content. Because DE has undermined that role-based multiplayer due to offerings like Helminth, Warframe Revised, AoE Meta/Status Immunity, and general powercreep, it's expected that you just play as a one-man-army and are capable of doing entire missions alone, even while in a squad. That's why the person with the most kills in a Fissure is just whoever is faster, and why Revenant is such a no-brainer to choose because weapon creep means you need no buffs to handle yourself, and Mesmer Skin is immortality + Status Immunity for AoE.

The way to "fix" your Revenant observation is heavily nerfing the ability for a player to do everything by themselves and rely on more team synergies to create that dynamic of "contribution". People for years have downplayed the need for forced squad content, but not having any has led us here to where people flock to that one kit that does the whole mission solo, whether that's Volt, Revenant, Titania, etc. 

I wouldn't force squad requirements on the entire game, but designing more roles-based gameplay for specific content will remove Revenant from that picture unless the player chooses to stick him on the team as the "team survivability Warframe" instead of a choice like Oberon or Trinity.

Modern Warframe multiplayer is just playing with NPCs on your team.

Edited March 3 by Voltage

[Aerikx]

6 hours ago, CrownOfShadows said:

True and False. Like I don't mind a Loki or even an Octavia (although that is fundamentally problematic as well) as long as they are DOING something. The thing about Revenant is that he is just enthralling enemies (if that - I've seen plenty that don't lol) and then doing nothing after. Basically at the most basic, low-effort level, I'm asking that Revenant DO something besides that (and even enthralling, as mentioned in the OP, is not that awesome of a team ability).  Like please CONTRIBUTE?!@?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!? wtf

And yes, I solo a lot. SHOULD I THOUGH???!?!? Is that what this game is about!?? I beg to differ sir. WF is about co-op. That is its fundamental premise. Otherwise thank you, I'll #*!% off and go play any number of other games. That might make YOU happy, but does it make DE (or the general playerbase) happy? It's not about ME it's about the generic player experience.

Revenant is a kill-joy anyway you look at it. You see a Revenant, you immediately determine that player as useless (whether they actually are or not due to WEAPONS and not the FRAME), and this is because that frame IS USELESS from a team perspective. WHAT does he ACTUALLY contribute i beg you? (Besides the mediocre cc from his thralls?) He is immortal and (irritating) and THAT"S ALL>>

Like I'm not especially trying to be elitist, but a Revenant in my group contributes nothing while bumping the modifiers. So gtfo or contribute damn it. You do NOTHING>

Just to say it outright. (Even though I am now 100% sure you are arguing in Absolute Bad Faith given your responses.)

If Warframe turned into a team/squad required game it would die. Period. 

Everyone on these forums will agree on that.

What you desire isn't based around a single character. What you want would be a fundamental change together game.

Which btw, DE has actually given your ilk. We got a little thing called The New War.

You know the quest where the game stopped being a "Press a button to win" and we had to actually dodge. (Which your ilk hated)

We also got game modes such Archon Hunt, where you actually have to fight enemies. (Which your ilk cried over. So much so that they made Netracells to hold your overpowered lil hands.)

Duviri where your ilk lost access to meta loadouts so they actually had to use "Skill" and reflexes.

Soon you're getting Deep Archimedia, Which for the record your ilk are crying and crapping all over themselves about. Using the usual excuses about respecting loadouts, player time, etc, etc. 

So save the bs.

Also I never said to play solo. Show me the quote where I said it? Don't put words in my mouth unless you can quote me. 

Naw. I won't tell you to play solo. I'm telling you to GTFO.

That you want a game called Destiny 2. A game built from the ground up for squad play. Where no one can be the overpowered spoiled wannabe king you desire to be. Where the devs hand craft challenges to force reliance on teamplay. Down to the exotic quests. No team to help? It's not possible. Where the devs literally told players to go "find some friends". Where the devs literally make content impossible without a team.

(And look how that's going for them. Game is stagnant and just threading water.) 

And that game ain't doing so hot btw. I wonder if it's because new players can't figuratively "get in the building". Both because the forced teamplay makes it too difficult/impossible and because the long term players have created artificial barriers, blocking them from content.

Ultimately, there is far too much in this game and too much that goes into requiring a team set up that to try and make this game the bulk crap elite-sweat fest that you desire, would utterly ruin it and make a game that you would not enjoy suck all the fun out of this game. 

The moment Players can't be their favorite Warframes because of what would essentially be a role (ultimately tank, healer, DPS) folks would leave in droves. 

Taking from Destiny...

The moment Sorties, Archon Hunts, Arbitrations, Steel Path, Railjack, Netracells, Deep Archimedia,  become literally impossible to play because of mechanics and difficulty in order to require teamplay, the game would die in mere months.

Additionally balancing 50+ characters isn't feasible. DE would have to stop making new Warframes, possibly remove some, and homogenize their kits so they can fulfil roles. Guardians have bland and rather basic power sets for this reason. 

As for not contributing...

Get over yourself. You're completely out of touch.

Revenant enthralling is contributing whether it is by your standards or not. Did you forget you can kill an enthralled enemy?

A enthralled enemy is attacking other enemies, defending objectives, and minimizing incoming DMG to the team because it is: 1. Killing enemies, 2. Drawing fire. 3. Not shooting at the team.

That might not be wiping the map in an instant but many, many, if not the majority of Warframes are incapable of doing that. 

You single out Revenant but from your logic...

Trinity, Harrow, Protea, hell...even Grendel would be too offenders in "Not Contributing".

This is the typical: "You're playing Mesa & Saryn, or you're doing it wrong." Mentality.

Yeah, you just want to make folks feel bad, see them die, and gloat as you eventually make a post over how "Bad" players are how you now "Refuse to revive" players who die in your squads. "Git Gud", etc, etc.

Been there, seen this S#&$ before. Game doesn't have a problem public mm wise. So you want to make one. 

LIke it or not. (Obviously you won't.) The fact this game can be experienced solo is. What keeps it afloat. The delicate balance Warframe maintains that makes Squads optional is how a Free to Play game thrives. 

The moment that gets thrown out, the game dies. Leaving your ilk to stand over the grave with your thumb up your backsides wondering: "htf did (Game)  die?" 

Not realizing that the cancer that claimed it, is right there with them, standing in the exact same spot they are standing.

Edited March 3 by Aerikx

[Slayer-.]

Oh, another thread on trying to convert others and calling for nerfs on *insert warframe here*.

10 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Don't use it. Problem solved. You can't control people, so why try?

I couldn't agree more, it's like people ringing up TV stations to complain about a TV series/Movie or whatever gets them triggered when all they need to do is keep flicking channels and ignore it.

10 hours ago, CrownOfShadows said:

So.... a lot of people play Revenant. Especially low MR people playing high content. And I'm kinda getting burned out on it.

Here's why:

1. Revenant allows low level (and low-skill) players to play high level content without contributing anything.
2. Revenant himself does not have very many team skills. In fact, if you aren't running his augment, he doesn't contribute anything really. He provides no defense to objectives. His ability dps is typically not great (his ability dps is his 4th and that's it, so if a player hasn't built for that they do jack). Basically, he isn't killing anything or protecting anything, his only team benefit outside of an augment build is his mild cc with his thralls but.....
3. Revenant is irritating to play with. This is for the above reasons but also, of course, because of his converting enemies that you are trying to kill. In some respects, this is even more irritating than either Nekros or Nyx, because in those cases you can't damage them - they have full ally status, whereas this is not the case with Revenant, which makes it not only frustrating for the team but frustrating for the Revenant player themselves as they need those thralls.

Now I can't blame people for playing him, the masses will always gather around the lowest hanging fruit, and Revenant offers them an easy path to cheese content with. However, I submit that this is both unhealthy for the game and also unhealthy for the players themselves, as they are walking around on crutches rather than being contributing members. And yes, of course, there are lots of ways to cheese in WF. All these players could just as easily be playing Loki or Limbo or Vauban for example, which would be equally frustrating for the players tasked with actually doing everything. We can't force players who don't want to contribute to do so, not without reworking a significant number of things.

So am I asking for a Revenant nerf? IDK. I think I'm asking for Revenant changes. Like I'm not necessarily pissed off that these low level players have immortality, but I am angry that they aren't contributing in any meaningful way at the same time. Maybe just give Revenant more team tools and more ways to be useful and less irritating, or else make a pass on mesmer for balance (because it is most probably not a healthy aspect, despite DE apparently thinking it's cute or something idk).

I guess that sums it up.

I'm just an old grumpy fart who plays this game to much and I have simplistic views on stuff.

 

1. You are partly assuming that, some players with all levels of skill play all sorts of frames depending on the mission/s, it's also easy to get hold of like a lot of previous frames players tend to float towards, hell I even play revenant now and then but don't like to because I like playing a wide choice of other frames according to my stats, also the clan mate friend I play with mains him, has for years before he became popular.

2. Like a few frames out there.

3. Personally I don't care what frame players use, I go in with the mindset of being solo, It's just how I play the game, if pub players are in there and if struggling because they may be learning or bitten off more than they can chew I keep going and help them out with maybe tips or suggestions if I have time to two finger type, which helps me in the end.

Nyx is quite good if you build her right, enough said, she's an old frame that certain players don't like, why suck on a sour yukky lollie when you can have an orgasmic bliss bomb in your mouth, players will nearly always take the sweet path.

You go on about saying some frames are useless and players have no skills then you about-face and say <Now I can't blame people for playing him> I look at it this way, it's a trend, trends die off after a while and especially when the next better frame comes along.

These sorts of frames have been around since the dawn of time *insert warframe here*, it's not going to change now or in the future unhealthy for the game is your perception of your status and also unhealthy for yourself as it may lead to burning out with you focusing too much on the things you cannot control.
 

I don't have the magical answer and these opinions are my take on it all.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

10 hours ago, CrownOfShadows said:

'm not even asking for a nerf and people are already losing their minds. I just want the people playing him to CONTRIBUTE. And they are fundamentally limited in that regard by his kit.

a LOT of revenants got folded by the 60 eye boss, before it became public knowledge that it cancles abilities. even I was thinking "can just use Revenant if I wanted to", but then  I heard the news and my eyebrows raised "really? huh. that's pretty neat."

Revenant absolutely can contributeto a game; Enthralling causes enough agro diversions to keep defense objectives alive and while not his bets ability, his 4 can still kill stuff on normal (granted, it falls of on SP like everything else, but your gripe was specifically about Revenant being used by NEW players, so that rules SP out). he isn't the best pick for every mode, but than no frames really are: some can be a decent jack of all trades thoguh, and for the most part, you really can just put his 2 on and be absolutely fine.

people have always played frames with durability powers this way; Rhino is usually first, then it was Inaros, then it was Wukong and now it's Revenant. eventually another frame will come along that can also be practically invincible, and people will gravitate to them too: life goes on.

personally I think people should at least try to make the effort to use all of a frames kit, to see what works and what doesn't, because there's a good chance they might find something fun about them, or discover a playstyle they never even thought of, but at the end of the day I also accept that people should be able to play how they want to, and if all they want to do is put on Mesmer Skin, and shoot stuff, that's fun enough for them, then sure, whatever floats their boat. it's not my way, but it's not a wrong way either.

try to respect other people's ways of playing, otherwise you're gonna rub people the wrong way. 

 

 

[Raikh]

33 minutes ago, Voltage said:

The way to "fix" your Revenant observation is heavily nerfing the ability for a player to do everything by themselves and rely on more team synergies to create that dynamic of "contribution". People for years have downplayed the need for forced squad content, but not having any has led us here to where people flock to that one kit that does the whole mission solo, whether that's Volt, Revenant, Titania, etc. 

I wanted to agree with you because I do think multiplayer right now is pretty bad and its mostly about who gets to kill things faster, but thinking back at what I've seen in Warframe multiplayer going as far back as starting in 2017 I can't remember many times I've found the multiplayer dynamics very engaging. So much of it was corridor camping where everyone was just spamming the one or two buttons they were assigned to or in case of LoR it was standing on Pressure Plates.
I can't remember feeling much of a dynamic where there were X number of enemies in a room and you needed to coordinate who takes on which enemies, so everyone can have their bit of fun. Maybe that would become more of a thing in Endurance runs at some point before the power creep really ramped up, but sitting in missions for well over an hour is a niche of a niche and not applicable to the masses or to general gameplay.

Among the people I've introduced to the game I've also found no one who looks forward to playing Defense, Interception or Excavation. Best case they went from being absolutely hated early on to just becoming a rolling eyes annoyance.

So while I'd like to see more engaging multiplayer dynamics, I'm a little worried how they'd turn out as I can't remember a truly fun precedent in Warframe beyond individual moments in the 7 years I've experienced the game. Especially when they are mechanically necessary, rather than circumstantially necessary it often becomes very boring very fast.

51 minutes ago, Aerikx said:

If Warframe turned into a team/squad required game it would die. Period.

That aswell. If this game forced multiplayer down my throat back when I started or even today I wouldn't be playing it. I enjoy playing with friends but I'm not always only playing with friends and I loathe playing public. Warframe being this super high action power fantasy game also doesn't really work if you couldn't succeed on your own. So multiplayer has to be complementary and enriching, not necessary.

 

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

I find this thread funny, given the existence of other seemingly diametrically opposed threads elsewhere.

I don't understand why the frame matters at all, when the weapons are what everyone seems to be up in arms about, power creeping, AoE...

I don't understand why people aren't espousing the counterargument here, that maybe you shouldn't be building to be so powerful yourself, so you don't overshadow the contributions those weaker players are making... you're taking all their fun, don't ya know?

 

As for myself, I don't care what anyone else brings to a mission. As long as the mission is successful, job well done. Did I have to do everything? So be it, I solo most things anyway. I didn't really pay attention to what other people were doing, I was focusing on what I was doing...

 

[ClockworkDirge]

If you’re getting “burned out” by what other people are choosing to play for their own enjoyment, you really should at least take a break from playing pub until you feel less burned out. Or maybe take a break from Warframe entirely. Someone’s MR being lower than yours doesn’t mean you get to be the fun police and determine how they should play. Revenant isn’t the problem here, it’s your view of newer players choosing tools that help them not actively burden a pub squad that’s the problem.

[(XBOX)CaligulaTwily]

Ive carried entire squads through Archon Defense missions, making the whole team invulnerable (and using Nourish so Noone is ever wanting for energy) (even got "Thank you Rev" measages in chat, made my day and cheered me up)

Revenant has no issues with "team contribution" you just need to git gud at realizing each frames strengths (except Slova and Limbo, they can muck off, they contribute nothing good to the team and make missions slow and miserable) 😉

Edited March 3 by (XBOX)CaligulaTwily

[(XBOX)RaeOvSunshyn]

1 hour ago, Voltage said:

Modern Warframe multiplayer is just playing with NPCs on your team.

Truly true. I'd rather Kahl Air Support get nerfed than Revenant; at least the latter can't actively interfere with gameplay.

As for OP: Considering Helminth, you can no longer judge a frame by name alone. You really have no idea what someone else is bringing to a mission -- Revenants with Roar, Saryns with green shards, Rhinos with Shooting Gallery -- so you honestly don't know what others are contributing until after all is over. Plus, one man's bane is another one's boon: having a Revenant in my squad, even if he does absolutely nothing, vastly improves MY experience since spawns on Xbox are atrocious and ANY additional frame alleviates that just by its very presence.

[pwnSacrifice]

18 minutes ago, (PSN)AyinDygra said:

As for myself, I don't care what anyone else brings to a mission. As long as the mission is successful, job well done. Did I have to do everything? So be it, I solo most things anyway. I didn't really pay attention to what other people were doing, I was focusing on what I was doing...

 

This right here.

Revenant isn't an issue. It just seems that OP wants to be armchair developer here, and quite frankly has a very different idea of what Warframe *should* be in their eyes than DE.

Are these so called loser Revenant  players not shooting? Any half decent gun can do just as much work as a frame. And if rev is a problem, why aren't other gun platform frames being called out the same way? Pretty clear OP doesn't want to carry anyone but that's not the game we're playing 

Who cares if they're low MR? What's the expectation there? That they're stuck on the super easy starchart they've clearly already done? So long as they can hack it, what's it to you?

I'm sorry the game isn't catering to your every whim.

[SneakyErvin]

6 hours ago, (XBOX)Timidobserver said:

I don't really care since he doesn't do anything annoying like Limbo, Wisp, Nova, etc. I'm happy to just ignore revenants that I get grouped with. 

For me he is at the exact same level or worse than those. DE should have never added the S#&amp;&#036;ty augment for Mesmer Skin since it attracts so many bad players that think they benefit their group members with ghost jizz on the shoulder.

No I dont want your discharge on my shoulder because it will completely disable parts of my build.

[crimsonspartan1]

On my end I only play Revenant solo just to do the final stage of archon hunts and Netracells without needing to worry about lobbying up with others. Definitely makes me look lazy, but admittedly these days i'd rather get them over with each week so I can focus on other things.

Mesmer Skin alone definitely just makes Revenant all sorts of broken. That could use some adjustments but in turn Revenant's other abilities could also need a buff so he doesn't just fall into obscurity like Wukong who I haven't seen in public lobbies since his nerf / change, despite the fact he isn't actually a bad frame at all.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

6 minutes ago, crimsonspartan1 said:

On my end I only play Revenant solo just to do the final stage of archon hunts and Netracells without needing to worry about lobbying up with others. Definitely makes me look lazy, but admittedly these days i'd rather get them over with each week so I can focus on other things.

Mesmer Skin alone definitely just makes Revenant all sorts of broken. That could use some adjustments but in turn Revenant's other abilities could also need a buff so he doesn't just fall into obscurity like Wukong who I haven't seen in public lobbies since his nerf / change, despite the fact he isn't actually a bad frame at all.

Don't worry about how you look. You can play how you want. The OP is trying to guilt trip people because he had some bad Pug experiences. He thinks coming here to tell people how to play will miraculously make his experience better.

[CrownOfShadows]

I'm not saying someone playing Revenant can't contribute via their weapons. They definitely can. I have Revenant. I play Revenant. Am I a contributing member? Yessir. Why - because I have killer weapons to put on him. The issue is that most of the people I see playing Revenant don't have good weapons. The reason they don't is because they are lower MR and just don't have that level of investment yet, but Revenant allows them to be there still.

Would they be there if they couldn't use Revenant? Depends on the player of course, but the point here is that in too many cases the answer to this is no.

So you have a player sitting there who is immortal, who doesn't have good enough weapons to contribute meaningfully that way, and who can't contribute via their abilities (besides thralls, which as covered are more irritating than they are helpful). That's the good faith scenario. And then of course you have the players who are sitting there immortal who don't even bother shooting, and that's the bad faith scenario, and the really sucky part here is they are the same.

[crimsonspartan1]

11 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Don't worry about how you look. You can play how you want. The OP is trying to guilt trip people because he had some bad Pug experiences. He thinks coming here to tell people how to play will miraculously make his experience better.

Fair. Revenant is very good for solo if you don't want to worry about dying thanks to mesmer skin. For teamplay I usually swap out his 4th for Roar or Nourish so I can at least support other players. Unless other Revenant players are just, not doing anything, having one in teams isn't bad, especially if they bring their Mesmer Skin augment.

At least you can't just fully AFK like you could with Wukong pre-nerf back in the day?

[Waeleto]

So don't play him ? people having an issue with what others play ESPECIALLY when it doesn't affect YOU is just sad and WRONG

It feels like you want to control what others play which means you should probably take a break because this is the first step to a toxic path

If your argument was about slowva/wisp/saryn or something like that i would understand but the fact that you're complaining about something that doesn't affect you at all is just not it

Edited March 3 by Waeleto