Revenant is too much of a crutch

[ArmoredDragoness]

I mean yes but I find nyx more crutch heavy with enough efficiency and assimilate you can stay immortal indefinitely since they removed the ability to take extra damage at the cost of energy albeit you take a heavy penalty to movement and can't survive in steel path without this setup 

[sly_squash]

4 hours ago, Voltage said:

Warframe multiplayer is just playing with NPCs on your team.

My quote of the year!  😁

[CrownOfShadows]

Also please keep in mind that I am NOT actually asking for a nerf to Revenant! (I even stated this in the OP)

I'm actually asking for Revenant buffs - give him tools to succeed.

I just want to at least give underleveled players some way to help out instead of sitting there twiddling their thumbs waiting for the rest of us to finish the mission for them.

[ZantenZan]

I don't really think buffing Revenant's other aspects (be it damage dealing or buffing) without nerfing his survivability is really in the cards, though. He's already very popular due to that survivability, if you also made him a Warframe that could dish out a lot of damage, or buffs that increase damage, by virtue of his abilities alone it would essentially land him in Nourish territory, i.e. 'Why NOT Just Use Him For Everything?' And any attempt to 'balance' him by taking away from his survivability while adding to his DPS or buffing would just stick him in the same role a number of other Warframes already occupy.

I actually find Revenant can be quite useful as a weapons platform because his Mesmer skin not only offers invulnerability but also nullifies any sort of knockdown effects that might throw off aiming a precision weapon. I don't use him for much anymore; mostly just Steel Path Circuit Solo if he pops up, because he's one of the few that can reliably get me through a Steel Path Circuit Defense mission by myself while using trash weapons. But when I want to run a quick Archon hunt, solo or public, I grab Revenant, stick Phenmor on him, and off I go. To be fair, I also use his Mesmer Skin augment, so I can contribute in the form of compensating for my Public squad's potential squishiness by giving them damage-nullifying buffs. But even if I wasn't, Revenant lets me use my main contributor to the mission, Phenmor, a LOT more aggressively because I can just stand there and pump heavy automatic fire directly into the Archon's head without having to worry about being jostled or killed. To say nothing for how the stun effect Mesmer skin inflicts on enemies makes getting those initial headshots to get my Incarnon form active soooo much quicker.

I can see where you're coming from, to a degree, but speaking as someone who's run a lot of Public Squads for high-level content, I find I'm less concerned with a player who can't meaningfully contribute, and more with a player who gets downed every ninety seconds and needs a perpetual life preserver yeeted at them. Especially on something like a Netracell or an Archon hunt, where that player dying translates to them failing the mission, creating a virtual obligation that I go out of my way to try and revive them on multiple occasions. If I had to pick between receiving buffs, but giving regular revives, and receiving no buffs but mostly being able to focus on clearing mobs, I'm probably going with Option B. 

And, again, I don't think Revenant would see a buff to make his shortcomings better without also having things balanced by making his strongest points worse. 

Edited March 3 by ZantenZan

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

4 hours ago, crimsonspartan1 said:

Fair. Revenant is very good for solo if you don't want to worry about dying thanks to mesmer skin. For teamplay I usually swap out his 4th for Roar or Nourish so I can at least support other players. Unless other Revenant players are just, not doing anything, having one in teams isn't bad, especially if they bring their Mesmer Skin augment.

At least you can't just fully AFK like you could with Wukong pre-nerf back in the day?

You would think the OP (original poster, not you) would complain about a frame that actually has more of a negative effect on the team. 

Instead, he's upset that for a 5 min mission....people aren't bringing min-maxed support roles just for him. 

This isn't WoW....you don't need healers and paladins and bards in this game. 

The other issue is that range is limited....if 1 player is 200 meters away, is it your responsibility to chase them down, buff them....then go back to the other 2 team members? 

[PR1D3]

Honestly most people do not understand Revenant, and that includes OP for that “he doesn’t contribute to the team”. Is Mesmer Skin stupid easy to use? Oh yeah, most definitely. And as all things in this game that makes it where the most simple minded can use, abuse, & trivialize the game they will flock to it like moths to a flame. I was happy he got that slight buff by making a stack last for a few seconds before falling off, but that made MS a little bit too good. I don’t think DE would want to mess with it at this point. Unless they want to make it where you can’t recast it and the only way to get stacks back is to do it when it falls off completely or Reave Thralls. 

[Kaiga]

41 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Instead, he's upset that for a 5 min mission....people aren't bringing min-maxed support roles just for him. 

The OP seems to be baiting people with revenant prime glyphs into the thread, and it worked, this point isn't particularly new or insightful, they'll say the same thing about the reworked inaros for the same likes from the same crowd once revenant is nerfed.
And nerfed he likely will be, because DE only balances around usage rates- and revenant is one of the most used because mesmer skin does completely trivialize surviving everything.

It's funny, that the two chief complaints seem to be about nuke frames that are speeding up missions too much, and low effort training wheels frames that apparently leech from those nuke frames and don't do anything.

Maybe it's not DE's fault for giving us all this, maybe we should just nerf players themselves, have the game slap you with a fish for bringing anything past a certain point on most tier lists _{(/s obviously)}

[ZantenZan]

3 minutes ago, Kaiga said:

The OP seems to be baiting people with revenant prime glyphs into the thread, and it worked, this point isn't particularly new or insightful, they'll say the same thing about the reworked inaros for the same likes from the same crowd once revenant is nerfed.
And nerfed he likely will be, because DE only balances around usage rates- and revenant is one of the most used because mesmer skin does completely trivialize surviving everything.

It's funny, that the two chief complaints seem to be about nuke frames that are speeding up missions too much, and low effort training wheels frames that apparently leech from those nuke frames and don't do anything.

Maybe it's not DE's fault for giving us all this, maybe we should just nerf players themselves, have the game slap you with a fish for bringing anything past a certain point on most tier lists _{(/s obviously)}

I, for one, welcome the opportunity to min/max mod the crap out of the fish. I will not rest until I have the softest, least accurate, and most skin-moisturizing fish-slaps any player has ever encountered!

[CrownOfShadows]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

You would think the OP (original poster, not you) would complain about a frame that actually has more of a negative effect on the team.

I complain about the things that are problems. Revenant is a problem and he's growing. He's not actively ruining gameplay, sure, but he is most definitely a negative when abused.

IDK what you're saying about support roles, I never even brought that up. You think because I want people to do something besides stand there that I want them to "support" me in some kind of traditional sense? Where did you get that from?

19 minutes ago, PR1D3 said:

Honestly most people do not understand Revenant, and that includes OP for that “he doesn’t contribute to the team”. Is Mesmer Skin stupid easy to use? Oh yeah, most definitely. And as all things in this game that makes it where the most simple minded can use, abuse, & trivialize the game they will flock to it like moths to a flame. I was happy he got that slight buff by making a stack last for a few seconds before falling off, but that made MS a little bit too good. I don’t think DE would want to mess with it at this point. Unless they want to make it where you can’t recast it and the only way to get stacks back is to do it when it falls off completely or Reave Thralls. 

What don't I understand about Revenant?

18 minutes ago, Kaiga said:

The OP seems to be baiting people with revenant prime glyphs into the thread

I'm what now??

-------------

All you guys seem to be conveniently ignoring the central point: doing nothing is bad. Doing nothing while being immortal is extra bad. If it happens once in a blue moon, am I worried about it? Nah. Like if I jump into a mission right now and there's an afk Inaros, am I going to come here and make a post like this? Nope. Don't care. I can tolerate some bad apples.

But when I go play an incursion and there's a Revenant, and when I go play Archon hunt and there's 2 Revenants, and when I go play Netracells there's another Revenant, and then I go play some random SP missions and there two Revenants, and then I jump in the Circuit and there's a Revenant - and none of them are doing anything besides enthrall some enemies and maybe some of them are shooting, sure, but maybe a lot of them aren't... yeah, I can only roll my eyes so many times before I have to come here and say: we have a problem boys. It's rapidly becoming systemic.

------

And ALSO, as I mentioned, I'm not even asking for a nerf and you guys are acting like the world is ending (and insulting me non-stop) - which tells me you are way too sensitive about Revenant for some reason. Chill, I'm just asking that he be given more ways to contribute as a frame. Why exactly are you fighting that??

[DrivaMain]

17 hours ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Look, Sayrn CONTRIBUTES, and honestly Mesa would be a better example, she mostly just fundamentally steals kills. But what does Revenant DO>?

Yeah, they contributes so much that I can't enjoy the horde killing aspect of Waframe. I might as well AFK at that point.

 

 

[ZantenZan]

17 hours ago, CrownOfShadows said:

So if there's defense mission and it's just you with 2 or 3 Revenants you're cool with that? Just checking. Like honestly. Be real.

And your excuse for Revenant being useless is "because weapons GOOD" ... sorry that't not  good enough, why not play literally ANY other warframe?

Since you asked this outright, gotta point out that I've run Steel Path Circuit Defense, solo, with a Revenant and barely anything in terms of decent dps other than my Operator's amp due to RNG pain, and it's by far always my easiest Defense run for SP Circuit. Maybe this works differently for Public, it's usually too much of a cluster**** to tell, but the Thralls are actually very good at drawing aggro away from Defense targets, Excavators, etc. So, yeah, I'd be perfectly cool running with 3 Revenants. All the better, really, because it'd let me focus 110% on mob clearing. I'm failing to understand how you might have trouble with a Defense mission when you're with 2 or 3 Warframes that can, with just 1 targeting his abilities properly, virtually nullify the threat to the actual Defense objective until the mobs get mopped up.  

As for killing mobs, yeah, Revenant alone doesn't offer much DPS for Steel Path or level 200-250 mobs, very true. But not every Warframe has to single-handedly nuke a small country whilst armed with nothing but a whiffle bat. And the power scaling in the game is so vast, that you can have a build perfectly capable of killing Steel Path Defense mobs, and still get completely overshadowed because you end up running with a player using a crazy high DPS build that mega nukes everything within a 20m radius.

It sounds like part of your complaints stem from the idea of players themselves not doing much, which... is not exclusive to Revenant. :P I've seen players in all kinds of Warframes, with all kinds of weapons, just kind of keeping out of the way or only killing 2 or 3 enemies in a SP or Netracell run. Hell, in regular Circuit I've had randoms find a corner to hide in because they were too lazy to play the game and wanted to be carried, and those usually weren't using Revenants either. Someone being lazy in a Revenant could still be lazy in a Rhino, a Nezha, an Ivara with high efficiency and Prowl. And, frankly, buffs just aren't that valuable when you're running with a public squad and thus have no real coordination on who brings what.

If you ARE complaining because you use a crazy high, mission carrying DPS build, then... what do you expect? I run a crazy high DPS build for Steel Path Survivals, Defense missions that don't randomise my gear, anything with a lot of tough mobs. It's always a pleasant surprise when someone keeps up or outpaces me for kills, (my build has downsides, like being melee-focused,) but I'm certainly not going to hold any comparative underperformance against my teammates. I literally made the build to excel at carrying Steel Path missions if necessary. My teammates could frequently be people who could absolutely have killed mobs, but would have needed 4 seconds to kill three mooks as opposed to my 1.5 seconds to kill fifteen. 

 

 

[nslay]

15 minutes ago, ZantenZan said:

Since you asked this outright, gotta point out that I've run Steel Path Circuit Defense, solo, with a Revenant and barely anything in terms of decent dps other than my Operator's amp due to RNG pain, and it's by far always my easiest Defense run for SP Circuit. Maybe this works differently for Public, it's usually too much of a cluster**** to tell, but the Thralls are actually very good at drawing aggro away from Defense targets, Excavators, etc. So, yeah, I'd be perfectly cool running with 3 Revenants. All the better, really, because it'd let me focus 110% on mob clearing. I'm failing to understand how you might have trouble with a Defense mission when you're with 2 or 3 Warframes that can, with just 1 targeting his abilities properly, virtually nullify the threat to the actual Defense objective until the mobs get mopped up.  

As for killing mobs, yeah, Revenant alone doesn't offer much DPS for Steel Path or level 200-250 mobs, very true. But not every Warframe has to single-handedly nuke a small country whilst armed with nothing but a whiffle bat. And the power scaling in the game is so vast, that you can have a build perfectly capable of killing Steel Path Defense mobs, and still get completely overshadowed because you end up running with a player using a crazy high DPS build that mega nukes everything within a 20m radius.

It sounds like part of your complaints stem from the idea of players themselves not doing much, which... is not exclusive to Revenant. :P I've seen players in all kinds of Warframes, with all kinds of weapons, just kind of keeping out of the way or only killing 2 or 3 enemies in a SP or Netracell run. Hell, in regular Circuit I've had randoms find a corner to hide in because they were too lazy to play the game and wanted to be carried, and those usually weren't using Revenants either. Someone being lazy in a Revenant could still be lazy in a Rhino, a Nezha, an Ivara with high efficiency and Prowl. And, frankly, buffs just aren't that valuable when you're running with a public squad and thus have no real coordination on who brings what.

If you ARE complaining because you use a crazy high, mission carrying DPS build, then... what do you expect? I run a crazy high DPS build for Steel Path Survivals, Defense missions that don't randomise my gear, anything with a lot of tough mobs. It's always a pleasant surprise when someone keeps up or outpaces me for kills, (my build has downsides, like being melee-focused,) but I'm certainly not going to hold any comparative underperformance against my teammates. I literally made the build to excel at carrying Steel Path missions if necessary. My teammates could frequently be people who could absolutely have killed mobs, but would have needed 4 seconds to kill three mooks as opposed to my 1.5 seconds to kill fifteen. 

 

 

Never mind that you can very carefully remove Overguard from Leech Eximus or Guardian Eximus and use them as Thralls to instantly heal the defense objective and make the defense objective practically immortal... But no, that would be a mythical contribution from Revenant in a Defense pub game.

I personally used this Eximus Thrall trick many times in solo SP Circuit... I guess I could see it being trickier to Enthrall an Eximus in a pub game. But if players are able to dispatch enemies quickly... well... then I guess you don't really need this trick (yet). It's only practical when the team can't keep up the killing anymore... That isn't to suggest that Revenant is great at Defense (he's not)... but you can go pretty far in waves if you use this trick.

[ZantenZan]

Just now, nslay said:

Never mind that you can very carefully remove Overguard from Leech Eximus or Guardian Eximus and use them as Thralls to instantly heal the defense objective and make the defense objective practically immortal... But no, that would be a mythical contribution from Revenant in a Defense pub game.

I personally used this Eximus Thrall trick many times in solo SP Circuit... I guess I could see it being trickier to Enthrall an Eximus in a pub game. But if players are able to dispatch enemies quickly... well... then I guess you don't really need this trick (yet). It's only practical when the team can't keep up the killing anymore... That isn't to suggest that Revenant is great at Defense (he's not)... but you can go pretty far in waves if you use this trick.

I never even considered that angle! In my case I usually just found that once I had some thralls set up around the objective- usually Enthralled one enemy per direction, let them spread the effect amongst themselves in as complete a circle as possible- the amount of attention on the Defense objective dropped so hard I'd just have to Madurai-buffed Void Blast the occasional Eximus mob who somehow made it through the in-fighting to assault the objective itself, while clearing out what I could with whatever weapons I had available. I have a few other Warframes that could single-handedly clear the mission faster- Gyre with Pillage, Baruuk with some aggressive Desert Wind off-the-map yeeting, a slow-build Saryn with spammed Condemn for shields and crowd control, Kullervo with damn near any melee weapon- but these usually come with a trade-off where the objective itself is more vulnerable to direct attack, they rely a lot more on heavy Energy usage, and/or they are themselves more vulnerable to getting killed. Baruuk's 1 gives great survivability, for example, buuuut since its effect doesn't work while I'm attacking, it doesn't help much at if I'm using him to scatter mobs.

In essence, there are some other Warframes I could clear SP Defense with, some even faster, but with Revenant my Objective was usually damaged the least, even if the mission lasted longer. And considering Defense is the only Circuit mission you can 'fail' for any reason other than running out of Revives, a low-stress defense run is always much appreciated.

[LRonHoover]

I don't really care what happens to skin, I still dodge stuff when it's up anyways out of habit and often neglect to recast it.

 

But leave the charm alone. Charm is my favourite skill/spell in video games and tabletop rpgs, in the history of both of those things. And as far as PVE goes, Enthrall is a top tier unique representation of the concept, albeit situational.

As for contribution to groups...anybody can bring whatever and just pop out and spoilermode the room anyways....I don't think it really matters at all outside of endurance runs.

 

 

 

 

[CrownOfShadows]

3 hours ago, ZantenZan said:

It sounds like part of your complaints stem from the idea of players themselves not doing much, which... is not exclusive to Revenant. :P I've seen players in all kinds of Warframes, with all kinds of weapons, just kind of keeping out of the way or only killing 2 or 3 enemies in a SP or Netracell run. Hell, in regular Circuit I've had randoms find a corner to hide in because they were too lazy to play the game and wanted to be carried, and those usually weren't using Revenants either. Someone being lazy in a Revenant could still be lazy in a Rhino, a Nezha, an Ivara with high efficiency and Prowl. And, frankly, buffs just aren't that valuable when you're running with a public squad and thus have no real coordination on who brings what.

The thing is, no other frame has immortality. Being lazy as Rhino, Nezha or Ivara is not the same as being lazy with Revenant.

[Tiltskillet]

33 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

The thing is, no other frame has immortality. Being lazy as Rhino, Nezha or Ivara is not the same as being lazy with Revenant.

Safeguard Loki is close-ish.  Not in terms of laziness really, as its more busy and fiddle-y than Rev.   And has more limitations.  Not good in boss fights without a supply of minions except where Switch Tele can target the boss.  Requires an augment. 

OTOH, he really is invulnerable, unlike Rhino, Nezha, or Ivara.   And not as restricted as Valk or Nyx.  And Loki's invuln doesn't know the meaning of nullification.

[Aruquae]

He’s not even disrupting gameplay or promoting any sort of afk anything…if “immortality” is considered a crutch by Revenant, then go into a mission and test that immortality.

Yes, I’m just asking you to go into a mission, cast Mesmer skin, and afk just to see how much of a crutch it truly is. 

Sure it requires the bare minimum of investment and regulation… but not all frames need to be complicated in order to be tanky. He also requires a specific setup too, and toxin screws him a lot more than you think. 
I don’t see the problem with him tbh

[CrownOfShadows]

Just now, Aruquae said:

He’s not even disrupting gameplay or promoting any sort of afk anything…if “immortality” is considered a crutch

Sigh....

1. I'm not saying he's disrupting gameplay (but I do say that he can be irritating to play with, because his thralls both are unfortunate to kill and unfortunate to be cast in the first place, it's an irritating mechanic. I wouldn't call it disruptive, but it is sand paper)
2. Some people definitely do "afk" with him (in quotes because people's definition varies), because you just have to press mesmer and then you can tab out while you let your team handle things. This isn't the majority, but it definitely happens. I wouldn't call it a widespread problem, but it exists.
3. Immortality is problematic anyway you look at it, I don't like it, I think it's bad design, but I'm prepared to live with it IF he had other things to do besides that. He doesn't though, he's just immortal. (this isn't exactly true, there are things he can do with reave and stuff, but 99% of revenant players don't use those tools)
4. He's a crutch because a very low level player can take him into very high content, THAT is why he is a crutch - and yes they aren't dying, but they aren't contributing either because they are under-leveled, and that's the thing I'm starting to get pretty irritated by. They're using Revenant to tag along for free (leech) because otherwise they wouldn't be able to get through the content. He's a free ticket any SP mission you want to play as long as your team does all the work for you. You don't have to mod properly, you don't have to have good weapons, you don't have to contribute at all, you just have to show up and press mesmer, and this really isn't healthy and it's rather rude to the team too.
5. And yes... a Revenant with good weapons can contribute a lot. He's a weapons platform, that's basically what he is. So how much you contribute really depends on your weapons.

[Aruquae]

2 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

I'm not saying he's disrupting gameplay (but I do say that he can be irritating to play with, because his thralls both are unfortunate to kill and unfortunate to be cast in the first place, it's an irritating mechanic. I wouldn't call it disruptive, but it is sand paper)

Mmm true true, I’ll give you that. I always feel bad killing an Eximus and realizing it was just a poor thrall. 

 

3 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Some people definitely do "afk" with him (in quotes because people's definition varies), because you just have to press mesmer and then you can tab out while you let your team handle things.

Very odd, at that point it wouldn’t be Mesmer skin doing anything, but the enemies simply not targeting him. If he were to afk in high level steel path… most likely wouldn’t even last 2 minutes. 

 

4 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Immortality is problematic anyway you look at it, I don't like it, I think it's bad design, but I'm prepared to live with it IF he had other things to do besides that. He doesn't though, he's just immortal. (this isn't exactly true, there are things he can do with reave and stuff, but 99% of revenant players don't use those tools)

Unfortunately, I agree, but that’s only because I don’t like immortality. It’s fine for Rev because he’s not the only one, just the easiest. Plenty of are similar to Rev, where you just click one button (with an actual setup for that) and forget you can get hit for some time, such as Nezha and Rhino. They aren’t full immortality, but they do have a gate mechanic (not sure about Rhino, but I think so) that prevents them from being one shot. It’s the same deal with Revenant.

 

7 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

He's a crutch because a very low level player can take him into very high content, THAT is why he is a crutch - and yes they aren't dying, but they aren't contributing either because they are under-leveled, and that's the thing I'm starting to get pretty irritated by. They're using Revenant to tag along for free (leech) because otherwise they wouldn't be able to get through the content. He's a free ticket any SP mission you want to play as long as your team does all the work for you. You don't have to mod properly, you don't have to have good weapons, you don't have to contribute at all, you just have to show up and press mesmer, and this really isn't healthy and it's rather rude to the team too.

Anyone can watch a YouTube video, get the “best” weapons with the mods in the video and just go into a random team and still suck. Those are meta players who don’t know how to mod… it is a crutch, but Rev is just one of those frames popular for being easy to use. Not downright broken, but not hard to master. This is why they use him.  
Plus, I’m sure they also bring Rev just so they aren’t an annoyance in the team (such as my friend) for dying 24/7, at least Revenant can keep you from having to stop to revive them every single time. This statement also got me wondering if you would want a kick button…

 

10 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

And yes... a Revenant with good weapons can contribute a lot. He's a weapons platform, that's basically what he is. So how much you contribute really depends on your weapons.

Ah, I pretty much just said that before reading this part of it.

[Slayer-.]

2 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Sigh....

1. I'm not saying he's disrupting gameplay (but I do say that he can be irritating to play with, because his thralls both are unfortunate to kill and unfortunate to be cast in the first place, it's an irritating mechanic. I wouldn't call it disruptive, but it is sand paper)
2. Some people definitely do "afk" with him (in quotes because people's definition varies), because you just have to press mesmer and then you can tab out while you let your team handle things. This isn't the majority, but it definitely happens. I wouldn't call it a widespread problem, but it exists.

I'm going to call horsepucky on number 2. Go into a high-level mission like Steel Path/Archon Hunt/Netracells with him and go afk for an extended time and get back to me how long it takes Rev to be downed, mesmur skin is not that good in high levels, most of the time all they'd be doing is recasting it or trying to keep it up with thralls but that still takes movement to do.

You might last a bit longer if you have Rev forma'd a lot and build up a lot of charges but still they'd get stripped away real fast.

My definition of AFKing is a player not playing the game for the entire round or extended periods of inactivity, going for a #1 or #2 I don't count.

[Aruquae]

7 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:

I'm going to call horsepucky on number 2. Go into a high-level mission like Steel Path/Archon Hunt/Netracells with him and go afk for an extended time and get back to me how long it takes Rev to be downed, mesmur skin is not that good in high levels, most of the time all they'd be doing is recasting it or trying to keep it up with thralls but that still takes movement to do.

 

Precisely, Nezha would take a lot longer to down if you start his third while being targeted. Rev just… dies while AFK. 

[(XBOX)CaligulaTwily]

I dont mind when my thralls get killed? I don't cry about it? So other people shouldn't worry and cry about killing Revs thralls.

People ignore the fire pillars from dead thralls but, a large number of pillars closely grouped with overlapping AoEs actually does Alot Of Damage and can effectively lock down a corridor.

So don't feel bad about slaughtering the thralls, it is neither unfortunate to cast or kill them.

[Aruquae]

13 minutes ago, (XBOX)CaligulaTwily said:

I dont mind when my thralls get killed? I don't cry about it? So other people shouldn't worry and cry about killing Revs thralls.

People ignore the fire pillars from dead thralls but, a large number of pillars closely grouped with overlapping AoEs actually does Alot Of Damage and can effectively lock down a corridor.

So don't feel bad about slaughtering the thralls, it is neither unfortunate to cast or kill them.

I just feel so dang guilty murdering the thrall. The Rev put so much work into breaking it’s overguard without killing it, then wasting energy for something that didn’t last 2 seconds.

I’m also sad for the thrall, it’s probably like “Dude I’m enslaved to work for your side, why are you killing me?” 

[Loza03]

Immortal frames are a balance issue, yeah, probably. But in all honesty they're pretty low priority as it goes. Kind of like Invisibility.

 

Like, don't get me wrong, frames that can survive anything the devs throw at them are problematic from a game design perspective, but builds that can delete tilesets without restriction, player damage scaling, AoE vs Single-target, armour scaling and even unrestricted mass CC (yes, even as far as CC has fallen since Eximus) are above it on the damage they can deal to the game's design.

[UnstarPrime]

On 2024-03-02 at 5:57 PM, CrownOfShadows said:

So.... a lot of people play Revenant. Especially low MR people playing high content. And I'm kinda getting burned out on it.

Here's why:

1. Revenant allows low level (and low-skill) players to play high level content without contributing anything.
2. Revenant himself does not have very many team skills. In fact, if you aren't running his augment, he doesn't contribute anything really. He provides no defense to objectives. His ability dps is typically not great (his ability dps is his 4th and that's it, so if a player hasn't built for that they do jack). Basically, he isn't killing anything or protecting anything, his only team benefit outside of an augment build is his mild cc with his thralls but.....
3. Revenant is irritating to play with. This is for the above reasons but also, of course, because of his converting enemies that you are trying to kill. In some respects, this is even more irritating than either Nekros or Nyx, because in those cases you can't damage them - they have full ally status, whereas this is not the case with Revenant, which makes it not only frustrating for the team but frustrating for the Revenant player themselves as they need those thralls.

Complaint 1: Revenant allows low level (and low-skill) players to play high level content without contributing anything.

25% of the players I'm matched with aren't contributing anything regardless of their frame choice, so to pretend that this is an issue because of Revenant is silly.  And heck, I don't even think it's a problem.  The game is easy enough that all it takes is a single competent player to succeed in any mission, meaning that carrying others takes the exact same amount of effort as carrying yourself*.  Revenant is even saving you the effort of lifting their downed bodies off the ground, so you should be thanking him.

The majority of the game's players are unskilled and/or casual, and I'm happy to have them along for the ride.  They make good company and it's fun to see the different ways they try to tackle problems, even when they're ineffective.

Complaint 2: Revenant himself does not have very many team skills.

Plenty of Warframes don't have team skills.  This is a silly complaint.  Warframes without team skills help the team by shooting and hitting things.

Complaint 3: Revenant is irritating to play with because of his thralls.

With respect, you are making a mountain out of a molehill.  Revenant doesn't need his thralls, so feel free to kill them.  Or don't.  It honestly doesn't matter.  Just put it out of your mind and it will be fine.

 

*as long as they aren't explicitly failing the mission by bombing a spy vault or something, which is not a Revenant issue.