What happened to evaluating community feedback? Dante and Nezha nerfs!

[Goat80]

There's so many approaches to how Digital Extremes can approach things, and aside from today's "hotfix", it's been awesome. I play daily and have dealt with their ideas of balancing the game. For the most part, I've just dealt with the odd choices that have been made here and there as most are easy to overcome. What's transpired today has just basically taken the joy out of BRAND NEW CONTENT! They want to talk about over usage of new released content, or that there's too much overguard, yet gut the allowed damages that a frame is allowed to output by making it a "hard cap line of sight" nerf. Have the developers not learned yet that when they did this same nonsense to Khora a couple of years ago, that having to revert it because it made the frame absolutely terrible for a month just really set the community off? I mean, giving us a frame that actually has a GREAT synergy, comfortable gameplay, and not overly complicated. . .but then gut the hell out of him after 8 days? Or giving up the ability of using Nezha for something other than an ability based armored tank weapons platform and then gut the hell out of that as well? Come on Dev's! Y'all have got to do better than this! This was too much, and this is coming from a player that has only ever had a single gripe about you in my tenure of playing this game. It's insane at best to think that your community is just going to take this lying down and think that you'll retain players in the long term if your intention is to just "broad stroke" nerf the hell out of BRAND NEW CONTENT! At least take some time, allow the community to use the items for a bit so you get some REAL data before take steps to reduce output of said new content. At least your stance on the "why" of things would be far more valid than this approach. I can have EXTREME automated play with quite a few different frames that I won't mention simply because you'll probably gut them as well at this point, but also less ability casting and have a lot of fun doing it. But the Dev's think that Dante was "too automated". Riiiiiiight. SMFH

[MrDugan]

I have seen this company and many other dev studios do a really specific thing over and over.  You have a thing you want to nerf.  You know there will be backlash.  You nerf it into the dirt.  Everyone riots.  You dial it back to where you actually wanted to nerf it, and now you've created magic.  A large portion of the initial detractors will be appeased.  For the portion that still isn't happy, the portion that was appeased will now turn on them because "at least they gave us something."  and now the whole community isn't rioting, but only a small portion.  Where if you had just done the second "real" nerf as the initial nerf, it would have been all backlash.  Pretending to roll it back softens the blow.

They said, very specifically and very firmly "small tweaks."  We did not get that.  If they roll back some of the changes, a lot of you are going to let it go because then it will look like "small tweaks" in comparison to what they've done to him.  Even though those nerfs without that perspective shift would have not been acceptable to a lot of you.  They've done it before, and it worked on most players like a charm.  It's manipulation 101, and it's predatory.  

He needed literally zero nerfs.  And a lot of folks are probably about to get conned into accepting whatever they do after this initial backlash, and to top it off, they get to label it as them "listening" to us.  Listening would have been seeing the pre-nerf backlash in the forums, doing zero nerfs, and fixing the OG squad interaction.  That's what listening would have looked like.  Listening is NOT nerfing him anyway, and then nerfing him slightly less while still ignoring the main problem.  That is not what listening is.  

Lmao, I guess the mod that has a fetish for merging threads woke up.

Edited April 5 by MrDugan

[(PSN)Thanatos-Prime]

The only flaw in your sound argument is the Assumption they 

A. Care what we think

B. Listen to us. 

Dantes utter guttering into the dumpster 7 days after launch kinda proves they don't care, and their response to the outcry -essentially "lol we don't care were nerfing him slightly less even though we should undo every change because we goofed" essentially proves they don't listen. 

Just ask fir a refund if you can and dumpster him on the pile with the res t of the male casters they arbitrarily destroyed. 

[_Eclips3_]

2 minutes ago, (PSN)Thanatos-Prime said:

The only flaw in your sound argument is the Assumption they 

A. Care what we think

B. Listen to us. 

Dantes utter guttering into the dumpster 7 days after launch kinda proves they don't care, and their response to the outcry -essentially "lol we don't care were nerfing him slightly less even though we should undo every change because we goofed" essentially proves they don't listen. 

Just ask fir a refund if you can and dumpster him on the pile with the res t of the male casters they arbitrarily destroyed. 

They know the complaints will die down eventually and people won't abandon the game over it so they have no reason to care.

[Askell91]

31 minutes ago, (PSN)Thanatos-Prime said:

The only flaw in your sound argument is the Assumption they 

A. Care what we think

B. Listen to us. 

Dantes utter guttering into the dumpster 7 days after launch kinda proves they don't care, and their response to the outcry -essentially "lol we don't care were nerfing him slightly less even though we should undo every change because we goofed" essentially proves they don't listen. 

Just ask fir a refund if you can and dumpster him on the pile with the res t of the male casters they arbitrarily destroyed. 

Dear sir it was a "tweak" not a "nerf". xD

[Myscho]

10 minutes ago, dragonborn0998 said:

into the nukers you clearly want warframe to be.

Thats the problem, DE dont want that either, so they are stuck between half-dead CC and dominant nukes which gets nerfed anyway

Edited April 5 by Myscho

[Chewarette]

DE has absolutely no direction when it comes to balance.

They can nerf a Warframe that deals a bit too much damage but let the biggest offenders be for years. They can nerf Dante's Overguard overnight "because it's too OP" but somehow Revenant still exists with complete & permanent invulnerability forever. They can tweak armor reduction abilities here & there, and the next Warframe they'll release will have full armor strip in one button press. They can complain about AoE warframes and bury Support / CC warframes into the ground. They'll cap the Corrosive Status to 80% to not make it too OP, then years later create a Shard that allows it to full armor strip.

That's schizophrenia at this stage.

Edited April 5 by Chewarette

[Corvid]

8 minutes ago, Ocerkin said:

one of them wants warfame to be dark souls level difficult

Where, at any point in the game's history, has this been the case?

[Genitive]

Just now, Corvid said:

Where, at any point in the game's history, has this been the case?

Oh, I know! Me!

 

Spoiler

Never

 

[Ocerkin]

7 minutes ago, Corvid said:

Where, at any point in the game's history, has this been the case?

didnt say it was, i said they want it to be, and if you want proof, look at the game they split off to make, its literally dark souls warframe, and duviri is meant to mimic elden ring/dark souls

Edited April 5 by Ocerkin

[Ivi104]

4 minutes ago, Corvid said:

Where, at any point in the game's history, has this been the case?

3 minutes ago, Genitive said:

Never

I beg to differ! I couldn't get the Vitrica sword because I couldn't complete the fight. I had to have a friend complete the first two Archon fights in TNW. Certain parts of WF are most certainly Dark Souls-level difficult, and that has no place in a game whose literal motto is overpowered space ninjas. I  play so I can feel overpowered, if I wanted Dark souls-level difficulty, I'd've installed a game called Dark Souls, not WF!

[Circle_of_Psi]

44 minutes ago, dragonborn0998 said:

Wisp is still common place in meta squads. Shes more of your "golden boy" then excalibur is at this point. But Dante is a big no no?

Someone mentioned in another post that they suspect Dante got nerfed cuz he isn't a "Female Frame" not sure how true that is tho

So take it as you will

[Genitive]

2 minutes ago, Ivi104 said:

I beg to differ! I couldn't get the Vitrica sword because I couldn't complete the fight. I had to have a friend complete the first two Archon fights in TNW. Certain parts of WF are most certainly Dark Souls-level difficult, and that has no place in a game whose literal motto is overpowered space ninjas. I  play so I can feel overpowered, if I wanted Dark souls-level difficulty, I'd've installed a game called Dark Souls, not WF!

Those fights are nowhere near Dark Souls.

[rahetalius4.2.0CE]

16 minutes ago, Ocerkin said:

i said they want it to be, and if you want proof, look at the game they split off to make, its literally dark souls warframe

I mean, it isn't warframe at all besides the name and the company (aswell as Steve, but he doesn't work on WF anymore), it's not borrowing any lore, it doesn't even control like warframe (I know, I've played it) 

[Ivi104]

1 minute ago, Genitive said:

Those fights are nowhere near Dark Souls.

You're missing my point, so let me make it plainer - I'm here to enjoy myself, like we all are. My definition of enjoyment is probably very different than yours. All contents and all rewards should be equally accessible to both of us, since the point of the game is enjoyment and ease of play - you go around and indiscriminately shred hordes of enemies. The two fights I mentioned were disproportionately difficult compared to the rest of the content. Not completing one is a complete progstop, and the other has a very cool reward I couldn't get. Why should I be left without a reward if I enjoy the core gameplay more than artificial and pointless difficulty?

 

[16Bitman]

26 minutes ago, Corvid said:

Where, at any point in the game's history, has this been the case?

It was a pretty strong exaggeration, but it reminded me of the special event missions that limited you to a pretty low "conclave rating".

You essentially only were able to put on 2 or 3 mods before you were locked out.

Understandably people were upset they couldn't use the stuff they farmed for.

[Genitive]

4 minutes ago, Ivi104 said:

You're missing my point, so let me make it plainer - I'm here to enjoy myself, like we all are. My definition of enjoyment is probably very different than yours. All contents and all rewards should be equally accessible to both of us, since the point of the game is enjoyment and ease of play - you go around and indiscriminately shred hordes of enemies. The two fights I mentioned were disproportionately difficult compared to the rest of the content. Not completing one is a complete progstop, and the other has a very cool reward I couldn't get. Why should I be left without a reward if I enjoy the core gameplay more than artificial and pointless difficulty?

 

Should have put it like that in the first place. Still, these missions being more challenging than the rest don't make them Dark Souls-level difficulty. 

[Lord_Drod]

35 minutes ago, Corvid said:

Where, at any point in the game's history, has this been the case?

Today.  Have you tried soloing deep archimedea?

[TARINunit9]

33 minutes ago, Ivi104 said:

I had to have a friend complete the first two Archon fights in TNW.

Ok unless you're heavily physically disabled, you had the skills to do the New War boss fights.

You have unlimited lives at a generous checkpoint, unlimited recharging healing items, unlimited ammo with a weapon that kills them in 20 headshots. This is all stuff Dark Souls players would rail on for being way too easy. The bosses themselves are medium-level 3D platformer stuff, the kind designed to be beaten by 11-year-olds

[(PSN)Thanatos-Prime]

2 hours ago, _Eclips3_ said:

They know the complaints will die down eventually and people won't abandon the game over it so they have no reason to care.

Oh we all know that. So they should just drop this disingenuous act, have the guts to just come out and say it. Least then when you spit on us your not trying to tell us it's rain. This crap of "we read and take feedback very seriously" is a poor PR stunt. Just have the guts and integrity to be honest. You don't care, you want our money and fun has no place. 

 

Oh and by the by. DE. 

It's a PVE GAME who the heck cares is anything is OP? The only time that's bad is in PVP games, you know the exact thing warframe isn't. 

Edited April 5 by (PSN)Thanatos-Prime

[BansheeAndZephyrMarried]

35 minutes ago, Ivi104 said:

The two fights I mentioned were disproportionately difficult compared to the rest of the content. Not completing one is a complete progstop, and the other has a very cool reward I couldn't get. Why should I be left without a reward if I enjoy the core gameplay more than artificial and pointless difficulty?

>baby's first 3D platformer "boss"

>you don't even die when falling off platform

>"pointless difficulty"

I'm amazed some of you guys remember how to breathe. What's it like to live like this? Are there any other games you can play besides Warframe? Do you cry about not being able to obtain rewards from "difficult content" in those other games' forums too? I'm so morbidly curious. 

Just in case you missed it I'm going to write this out for you- a basic platformer boss being "disproportionately difficult compared to the rest of the content" is absolutely not a good sign. 

31 minutes ago, 16Bitman said:

It was a pretty strong exaggeration, but it reminded me of the special event missions that limited you to a pretty low "conclave rating".

You essentially only were able to put on 2 or 3 mods before you were locked out.

Understandably people were upset they couldn't use the stuff they farmed for.

That's what newbies thought, sure. People who were used to minmaxing didn't bother putting mods on melee and went in with full or nearly full builds on their frames, since CC trivialized the game back then. 

Consider a tactical alert like Overtake. You could try to fight the Nullifier horde with half-modded frames and glaives...... or you could acquire good taste, put on a normal Zephyr Turbulence build and obtain that shiny glaive stance while half afk. 

Edited April 5 by BansheeAndZephyrMarried

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

52 minutes ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Someone mentioned in another post that they suspect Dante got nerfed cuz he isn't a "Female Frame" not sure how true that is tho

So take it as you will

Kullervo and Revenant exist. So that's complete nonsense.

[MutoManiac]

From what I see, they overreact to community feedback. Now that everyone is whining about Dante, it's going to make them fix LoS. They do it quick these days so that they don't run into what happened with Wukong and the ammo nerf. So the Dante users now know what it felt like to be a Wukong main, so sadge.

[tucker_d_dawg]

29 minutes ago, MutoManiac said:

t's going to make them fix LoS.

problem is, in their spaghetti code, they'll probably only fix LoS for dante and leave the legacy mess a mess.  Megan already indicated they are looking at modification only in the context of dante and not khora whipclaw etc...

 

[Corvid]

1 hour ago, Lord_Drod said:

Today.  Have you tried soloing deep archimedea?

Have I tried soloing the endgame activity, that was specifically designed to be played by full squads of players using the strongest builds they could muster?

No, can't say I have. Nor can I see how that is in any way relevant to "Dark Souls difficulty".